Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Redskins8588;314060]Yeah, you are right to a point. Everyother Presidents did fire US Attorneys, the difference here is that the other Presidents fired the US Attorneys shortly after they took office, not half to 3 quarters way through there administration. These US Attorneys were ok for the first 6 or 7 years but now all of a sudden for the last year or so they are fired? Tell me another President, that wasnt newly elected, that fired as many US Attorneys as Bush did. I have no problem with the firings if the Attorneys deserved to be fired, but the ones that got fired all are singing the same tune. They did not adhear to their politcal parties demands. Basicly they decided to up hold the CONSTIUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, rather than surrender to the demands of the Republican party.[/quote]

This hardly amounts to an eye-popping distinction. It's okay to fire all of them right away but you can't fire a few after 2 or 5 years? This is pure politics. The Democrats think that if they hold enough hearings someone will slip up. I'm amazed that they haven't found a crime to prosecute yet. I'm not sure if the obdurate simpleton, Janet Reno, could have withstood such scrutiny.

The Democrats seem to be operating under the misapprehension that somehow their 2006 election victory nullified the 2004 presidential election. Wishful thinking. The President can do what the hell he wants with hiring and firing.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;314064]This hardly amounts to an eye-popping distinction. It's okay to fire all of them right away but you can't fire a few after 2 or 5 years? This is pure politics. The Democrats think that if they hold enough hearings someone will slip up. I'm amazed that they haven't found a crime to prosecute yet. I'm not sure if the obdurate simpleton, Janet Reno, could have withstood such scrutiny.

The Democrats seem to be operating under the misapprehension that somehow their 2006 election victory nullified the 2004 presidential election. Wishful thinking. The President can do what the hell he wants with hiring and firing.[/QUOTE]

But the point is that it was never done by any other president after 2 to 5 years. Not the democrats hoping for someone to slip up. Also, its not just the democrats there are members of the GOP that feel the same way...

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Redskins8588;314065]But the point is that it was never done by any other president after 2 to 5 years. Not the democrats hoping for someone to slip up. Also, its not just the democrats there are members of the GOP that feel the same way...[/quote]

They certainly are hoping for someone to slip up. No one can deny that. That's the nature of those hearings. Otherwise they could save money and do it by e-mail.

I think the President should have the right to hire and fire his people for whatever reason he wants. If the shoe were on the other foot, the donkeys would say the same. The congress cannot be allowed to meddle in the decisions of the executive in this way. They have broad powers but those powers do not extend to imposing their own political judgements on a President of the party opposite. Also, the Democrats would be wise to reign in Schumer a bit. He is an hopelessly self-righteous camera-hog and sooner or later everything that goes around comes around. The Democrats will likely gain the White House next year and a lot of this behaviour will be re-visited upon them in a most displeasing way. Patience is a nearly forgotten virtue in politics.

Finally, I would suggest that these wobbly Republicans are acting out of fear and not high-minded concern for the future of the Republic. Arlen Specter, for example, has been running scared ever since the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas hearings. He is only a Republican about half the time.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

Since this thread has gone off on so many tangents, is likely to get shut down soon, and will ultimately be sent to thread hell, let me respond with a few thoughts on many of the issues that have been raised.

(1) The firing of the assistant US Attorneys (AUSAs) was, IMHO, bad. No one in the administration is seriously defending the move and for good reason. Whomever is behind the matter deserves a serious public flogging. The firings were politically motivated and were an attempt to manipulate the justice system to serve very unsavory political ends.

(2) Everyone, including the French, thought Saddam had WMDs. Saddam tried to make everyone, allies and enemies alike, think he had WMDs. Guess what? It worked. Bush "beefed up" the intel, but he didn't lie when he said he was convinced Saddam had WMDs. We (including those like myself who were against going to war in the first instance) were simply wrong.

(3) I cannot figure out why anyone disagrees with "calling out" Iran. I do not want to go to war with them, but they're already at war with us. Iran has been training and equipping people in Iraq for years so they could kill Americans. Iran has a horrible human rights record. Iran is dominated by little Pat Robertsons. Like Hugo Chavez, Iran suppresses dissent by making midnight arrests and controlling the press. I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone on either side of the political spectrum would disagree with condemning Iran's government, particularly those who have opposed US policy of supporting brutal and oppressive dictatorships.

(4) Finally, avoid engaging in personal attacks or risk losing posting privileges or access to political forums. No one cares to read posts that amount to a pissing contest between two or more posters that are simply annoying and which detract from the thread. Honest and civil debate is encouraged, but personal attacks are not tolerated.

End rant.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

I think that this thread deserves no worse than limbo or purgatory. It doesn't seem particularly rancorous to me.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

What does any of this have to do with FOOTBALL??? I thought this was Warpath, the Redskins' Fan Forum!!!

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=George Allen Draftpick;314076]What does any of this have to do with FOOTBALL??? I thought this was Warpath, the Redskins' Fan Forum!!![/quote]
Actually this is the parking lot forum where Skins fans talk about off the football topic stuff. The locker room is where actual football talk is located.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=George Allen Draftpick;314076]What does any of this have to do with FOOTBALL??? I thought this was Warpath, the Redskins' Fan Forum!!![/quote]

Wow welcome, and you are already a VIP. Well done!

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=George Allen Draftpick;314076]What does any of this have to do with FOOTBALL??? I thought this was Warpath, the Redskins' Fan Forum!!![/quote]
I asked the same question when I joined a couple of years ago. We try and have friendly debate on any topic one may choose. When football season gets closer these threads are not as common.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;314039]Didn't Clinton also make a link following the embassy attacks in Sudan (was it Sudan?) back in 1998? Then he went and bombed a hospital or something like that.

Saden, help me out here. Refresh my memory[/quote]
No, Sudan had Bin Laden and wanted to know if we wanted him but Clinton passed on the deal and the rest is history.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=dmek25;314031]he lied when he said there was a tie to Al Quada(sp?) and Saddam Hussein[/quote]
DMEK24, I gave you alink in another thread several months back to the 9/11 report and it stated that there was a link between the two. The unknown is how much of a tie did they have with each other.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;314106]No, Sudan had Bin Laden and wanted to know if we wanted him but Clinton passed on the deal and the rest is history.[/QUOTE]

True, but I think he had said there was a connection regardless. And he bombed that ibuprofen factory as 70chip pointed out. And Saden made some good point as well. (too lazy to scroll to find it)

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Daseal;314008]JoeRedskin, don't you find it relatively sad that it takes the media breaking a story about Americans torturing people for the armed forces to clean up their act. There shouldn't have been any torture for a story to break about, in my opinion.[/quote]
Don't you think the word tortur is being thrown around pretty loosly. Talk to some of our men that have been tortured and they will tell you what real torture is. What was done was wrong but I'm not sure torture is the correct term to be used.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;314064]This hardly amounts to an eye-popping distinction. It's okay to fire all of them right away but you can't fire a few after 2 or 5 years? This is pure politics. The Democrats think that if they hold enough hearings someone will slip up. I'm amazed that they haven't found a crime to prosecute yet. I'm not sure if the obdurate simpleton, Janet Reno, could have withstood such scrutiny.

The Democrats seem to be operating under the misapprehension that somehow their 2006 election victory nullified the 2004 presidential election. Wishful thinking. The President can do what the hell he wants with hiring and firing.[/QUOTE]

This is not pure politics. This is a blatant disregard for an institution that should be treated with the highest honor and respect. These people are the curators of law in the nation, they are not to be toyed with and labeled incompetent, fired, and replaced with unqualified individuals. Lets not make this to us vs. them. This is is a serious matter that should concern us all. Believe me, if this was Clinton administration doing the firing I would be saying the same thing.

I mean really, do you want the president firing a whole bunch of AGs every 3 months, 6 months, year, etc? Yes, he has the power to do so but there are reasons why one shouldn't do that and certainly one shouldn't fire AGs because they don't meet Monica Goodling's litmus test or a certain Senator doesn't like how they are handling a case.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;314106]No, Sudan had Bin Laden and wanted to know if we wanted him but Clinton passed on the deal and the rest is history.[/QUOTE]

That doesn't sound right, can you provide a link to support your statement.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;314112]Don't you think the word tortur is being thrown around pretty loosly. Talk to some of our men that have been tortured and they will tell you what real torture is. What was done was wrong but I'm not sure torture is the correct term to be used.[/QUOTE]

You want to re-classify torture? How about we call it "Humane Torture" or better yet "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques?"

[QUOTE]For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

[B][I]...UN CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE
and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment[/I][/B]
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.

[B][I]...Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War[/I][/B]
[/QUOTE]

[YT]ZY5BwMjpUOI[/YT]

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=saden1;314120]That doesn't sound right, can you provide a link to support your statement.[/quote]
[url=http://www.lyingliar.com/lies/clintonosama.htm]Bill Clinton ignoring Bin Laden[/url]
This seemed to give a little of both sides. Its hard to find something without a slant either right or left.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;314152][url=http://www.lyingliar.com/lies/clintonosama.htm]Bill Clinton ignoring Bin Laden[/url]
This seemed to give a little of both sides. Its hard to find something without a slant either right or left.[/QUOTE]

Looking back, what was the expectations? That Bin Laden should have been arrested or killed even though he didn't commit any crimes against the US? There are a lot of characters in history like Bin Laden. If only we knew what they were going to become or do. After Bin Laden issued his decree of killing Americans he immediately became a target and the hunt began. That's how the world works, at least that's how it should work. You don't preemptively kill and imprison people because you think they might do something in the future.

If you have credible and substantiated evidence of the intent of an individual then by all means, issue arrest warrants and let the law, our law as well as international law, take its course. No indefinite detention. No secrete court rooms and back door trials. No tossing aside the constitution. Do it right, do it well, do it morally.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=saden1;314182]Looking back, what was the expectations? That Bin Laden should have been arrested or killed even though he didn't commit any crimes against the US? There are a lot of characters in history like Bin Laden. If only we knew what they were going to become or do. After Bin Laden issued his decree of killing Americans he immediately became a target and the hunt began. That's how the world works, at least that's how it should work. You don't preemptively kill and imprison people because you think they might do something in the future.

If you have credible and substantiated evidence of the intent of an individual then by all means, issue arrest warrants and let the law, our law as well as international law, take its course. No indefinite detention. No secrete court rooms and back door trials. No tossing aside the constitution. Do it right, do it well, do it morally.[/quote]

You should run for office.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

I'm a fan of Clinton's domestic politics, but he did have the opportunity to kill OBL in Afghanistan (after OBL declared war against the U.S.) via a missile strike or special ops ambush, but he chose not to for fear that innocents would be killed. But, then again, hindsight is 20/20.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=saden1;314182]If you have credible and substantiated evidence of the intent of an individual then by all means, issue arrest warrants and let the law, our law as well as international law, take its course. No indefinite detention. No secrete court rooms and back door trials. No tossing aside the constitution. Do it right, do it well, do it morally.[/QUOTE]

You definately make some interesting points. I definately agree that law enforcement actions against individuals caught in the U.S. should be conducted in the same manner as other criminal trials. I don't know, however, whether the war on terrorism against individuals overseas is a law enforcement action. The "war on terrorism" is both a law enforcement action and a war.

Also, the military tribunals are nothing new as FDR did them back in WWII - a much more conventional war. Moreover, they are okay with the Supreme Court (the details may need to be worked out in a new case, but they're generally okay with the High Court).

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

I've always been annoyed with the hardcore right wingers who try to deflect everything back on Clinton. Let's deal with the current mess at hand, at least we can do something about that.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;314192]I've always been annoyed with the hardcore right wingers who try to deflect everything back on Clinton. Let's deal with the current mess at hand, at least we can do something about that.[/QUOTE]

Speaking for myself, I certainly didn't mean to state that Clinton was to blame for 9/11, not catching OBL, etc. I just chimed in on the discussion about Clinton, Bush, and catching OBL.

I personally don't care for saying Clinton should have done this or Bush should have done this pre-9/11. As you hinted, it gets us nowhere and hindsight is 20/20.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;314196]Speaking for myself, I certainly didn't mean to state that Clinton was to blame for 9/11, not catching OBL, etc. I just chimed in on the discussion about Clinton, Bush, and catching OBL.

I personally don't care for saying Clinton should have done this or Bush should have done this pre-9/11. As you hinted, it gets us nowhere and hindsight is 20/20.[/quote]

Oh I know, I wasn't responding to you specifically, I was just making a general statement.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;314071]Since this thread has gone off on so many tangents, is likely to get shut down soon, and will ultimately be sent to thread hell, let me respond with a few thoughts on many of the issues that have been raised.

(1) The firing of the assistant US Attorneys (AUSAs) was, IMHO, bad. No one in the administration is seriously defending the move and for good reason. Whomever is behind the matter deserves a serious public flogging. The firings were politically motivated and were an attempt to manipulate the justice system to serve very unsavory political ends.

(2) Everyone, including the French, thought Saddam had WMDs. Saddam tried to make everyone, allies and enemies alike, think he had WMDs. Guess what? It worked. Bush "beefed up" the intel, but he didn't lie when he said he was convinced Saddam had WMDs. We (including those like myself who were against going to war in the first instance) were simply wrong.

(3) I cannot figure out why anyone disagrees with "calling out" Iran. I do not want to go to war with them, but they're already at war with us. Iran has been training and equipping people in Iraq for years so they could kill Americans. Iran has a horrible human rights record. Iran is dominated by little Pat Robertsons. Like Hugo Chavez, Iran suppresses dissent by making midnight arrests and controlling the press. I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone on either side of the political spectrum would disagree with condemning Iran's government, particularly those who have opposed US policy of supporting brutal and oppressive dictatorships.

(4) Finally, avoid engaging in personal attacks or risk losing posting privileges or access to political forums. No one cares to read posts that amount to a pissing contest between two or more posters that are simply annoying and which detract from the thread. Honest and civil debate is encouraged, but personal attacks are not tolerated.

End rant.[/QUOTE]

Actually, Bush said he had evidence that Saddam had WMD's. That, if I'm not mistaken, was a LIE. Spin it any way you want.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;313857]who in the hell is ron paul?[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes: Republican candidate for president. The other Republican "candidates" like Guliani and McCain are trying to get him banned from future debates and have been rebuffed. Watch the next Republican debates and you'll see who Ron Paul is.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=dblanch66;314209]:rolleyes: Republican candidate for president. The other Republican "candidates" like Guliani and McCain are trying to get him banned from future debates and have been rebuffed. Watch the next Republican debates and you'll see who Ron Paul is.[/quote]

Thanks. I actually went to his web site. Doesn't look like a serious contender, but you never know.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

I got rained on bad on Sunday and according to this thread it must be George Bush's fault.

The thing about almost every conversation/thread or whatever about Politics or even Religion is NO ONE ever changes anyone else's opinion. Even with all the so called facts and whatever. for the most part it's whinning.

If you complain to someone that can fix your problem it's fine but if you complain to people that have no way of fixing yer problem you are whinning.

You may now continue to bash the President thanks to our Freedoms as Americans.

peace

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;314192]I've always been annoyed with the hardcore right wingers who try to deflect everything back on Clinton. Let's deal with the current mess at hand, at least we can do something about that.[/QUOTE]

Understood Matty. By the same token I tend to take issue with the hard core left-wingers who want to act like Bush is the first President to use questionable tactics. "Never in history has any President..." Bullshit. As I mentioned earlier, Presdients for the last 200 + years have had to make difficult (and sometimes the wrong) decision regardless of political affiliation.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

You guys think Fred Thompson will run? What do you think of his chances?

And what about Mike Huckabee? Could he be a sleeper?

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

And if we are taking a poll...
I support this President and I support the war. I think them crazy bastards are harder to figure out when it comes down to killing each other so our tacktics may needs some tweaking but I would rather kill them poor bastards over there then fight them over here.

peace

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;314185]You should run for office.[/QUOTE]

I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism...I'm not electable :)

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=saden1;314216]I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism...I'm not electable :)[/QUOTE]

Do agnostic->atheists believe in thread hell?

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=saden1;314216]I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism...I'm not electable :)[/QUOTE]

Nope.
:spank:


lol
Just joking man. peace

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=dblanch66;314208]Actually, Bush said he had evidence that Saddam had WMD's. That, if I'm not mistaken, was a LIE. Spin it any way you want.[/QUOTE]

He did have evidence that Saddam had WMDs, as did other nations (including France, which loudly opposed the war). Prosecutors have evidence that innocent people committed crimes. I'm not spinning anything.

Lying involves an intent to deceive. Does anyone honestly think that Bush knew that Saddam didn't have WMDs, but told the public otherwise? "Beefing up" evidence leading to a conclusion that you think is accurate is not the same thing as making things up to prove a point that you know is false.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;314217]Do agnostic->atheists believe in thread hell?[/QUOTE]

Hell is just an idea. What you consider hell, someone else might consider heaven. When all is said and done, it is what it is.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;314202]Oh I know, I wasn't responding to you specifically, I was just making a general statement.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I know. I just wanted to distance myself from the crowd you were talking about.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=saden1;314182]Looking back, what was the expectations? That Bin Laden should have been arrested or killed even though he didn't commit any crimes against the US? There are a lot of characters in history like Bin Laden. If only we knew what they were going to become or do. After Bin Laden issued his decree of killing Americans he immediately became a target and the hunt began. That's how the world works, at least that's how it should work. You don't preemptively kill and imprison people because you think they might do something in the future.

If you have credible and substantiated evidence of the intent of an individual then by all means, issue arrest warrants and let the law, our law as well as international law, take its course. No indefinite detention. No secrete court rooms and back door trials. No tossing aside the constitution. Do it right, do it well, do it morally.[/quote]
He had prior to then declared war against us and we knew that he was forming a terror organization but I guess that was not enough. Thats is also why Sudan kicked him out of their counry and he went to Afganistan
[url=http://terrorism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=terrorism&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbs.org%2Fnewshour%2Fterrorism%2Finternational%2Ffatwa_1996.html]About.com: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html[/url]

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Sammy Baugh Fan;314215]And if we are taking a poll...
I support this President and I support the war. I think them crazy bastards are harder to figure out when it comes down to killing each other so our tacktics may needs some tweaking but [B]I would rather [COLOR="DarkRed"][I]kill them poor bastards[/I][/COLOR] over there then fight them over here[/B].

[I][B][COLOR="DarkRed"]peace[/COLOR][/B][/I][/QUOTE]

I'm not out to change your mind but I found your post pretty funny.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=saden1;314224]I'm not out to change your mind but I found your post pretty funny.[/quote]


See, you're already doing well in the polls. You should run.