Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=The Goat;521533]I can't help but be worried that we might not take a truly top OT in this year's draft. For all practical purposes we don't have a RT and Samuels while still very, very good is no spring chicken. A franchise tackle gives us so many options at this point where we can shore up both tackle positions for the foreseeable future.

... I understand OLB is def a need. Also realize it's just my opinion that a franchise OT is the best move but it will be sooooo unfair to JC (and the fans) if the FO fails to significantly upgrade the line. :(

I would just add that w/ Thomas struggling so bad last season and his resurgence as an effective guard questionable, but the near certainty he is retained because of the cap hit) it's all the more important we put a monster at RT.[/quote]

I think the feeling is there are a lot of top OTs

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=53Fan;521539]Was it Alex Mack?[/quote]

No, it was some no name

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=The Goat;521534]Also curious as to how Rocky Mac would be effective @ strong side LB when he struggled at weak-side? The official skins site has him listed @ 232 lbs... lighter than Marcus, Fletcher, Blades and even Fincher (who looks the meanest of them all BTW).[/quote]

I think he played SAM in college, but it's more about just filling him in somewhere until someone else (Cushing?) takes over

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=SmootSmack;521550]I think he played SAM in college, but it's more about just filling him in somewhere until someone else (Cushing?) takes over[/quote]

So what's the down low about how the FO wants to address the needs of the teams with the draft and FA or is that another thread? Can you just start another thread about the rumors that you hear being floated around?

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

According to the press release on Fox Sports, Peppers specifically mentioned wanting to cross over from the 4-3 to the 3-4 defense.

[url=http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9092360/Peppers-won%27t-sign-long-term-deal-with-Panthers]FOX Sports on MSN - NFL - Peppers won't sign long-term deal with Panthers[/url]

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;521276][url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/17/peppers-wants-to-play-in-a-3-4-defense/]ProFootballTalk.com - PEPPERS WANTS TO PLAY IN A 3-4 DEFENSE[/url]

This should dash some hopes of the Peppers fans.[/quote]

We already got it sandtrapp.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Haynesworth is a good player no doubt but his character and the way he conducts himself is a big turnoff for me.
Stick to the draft and build that way. Enough of this paying for overpriced players who end up doing little to nothing.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Maybe the Cowgirls will sign Haynesworth. You know.....team chemistry and stuff.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;521552]According to the press release on Fox Sports, Peppers specifically mentioned wanting to cross over from the 4-3 to the 3-4 defense.

[url=http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9092360/Peppers-won%27t-sign-long-term-deal-with-Panthers]FOX Sports on MSN - NFL - Peppers won't sign long-term deal with Panthers[/url][/quote]

Which a lot of people think will be a mistake

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;521551]So what's the down low about how the FO wants to address the needs of the teams with the draft and FA or is that another thread? Can you just start another thread about the rumors that you hear being floated around?[/quote]

There are so many rumors being floated around, as is customary at this point, that starting a new thread would be all over the place. I hinted at most of what I know a few posts back with my somewhat educated guess.

Happy to answer any questions

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Here we go again as redskins thinking about the fools gold. Peppers was a beast about a few years ago. But after injuries he isn't worth more then the pen the check is writen with. Haven't we learned anything from Jason Taylor?

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=SmootSmack;521563]There are so many rumors being floated around, as is customary at this point, that starting a new thread would be all over the place. I hinted at most of what I know a few posts back with my somewhat educated guess.

Happy to answer any questions[/quote]

Alright, who do you think they're going after in the draft? You've been talking to the scouts. Is there anyone that the FO is rumored to be looking at with interest in the draft and FA?

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

No high priced FAs please!!!!!! Unless you guys want to root for a crappy team for the better part of this decade we need to really get smart with the draft scouting and try ti get more picks if necessary via trading someone of value.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=GTripp0012;521540]I believe that SLB is the easiest position to handle on the entire defense, and while "strong side" would imply that you need a bigger, stronger player there, the fact that you spend a lot of time taking on blocks from the tight end instead of a tackle or guard makes me think that a smaller guy should be able to handle SLB better than WLB.

That, and I think it's somewhat easier, without having curl-flat coverage responsibilities and all.[/quote]

Much appreciated breakdown but it leads to another question: why didn't Marcus and Rocky swap sides long ago being that Marcus struggles to keep up w/ most in coverage (he usually looks hurt when he sprints IMO)?

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=The Goat;521571]Much appreciated breakdown but it leads to another question: why didn't Marcus and Rocky swap sides long ago being that Marcus struggles to keep up w/ most in coverage (he usually looks hurt when he sprints IMO)?[/quote]Fear of the unknown maybe? Marcus has been a SLB his whole career, and if his 2004 contract is any indication, he was valued like one in the free agent market.

Our chasing of Lance Briggs in the free agent market makes it seem like we were never going to consider moving Marcus into the heavier WLB responsibility role. We drafted Rocky, in my opinion, because we had in mind the fact that he would fill the WLB role vacated by Arrington, and we just haven't at any point had someone who could handle that role since we released LA.

I think we should try Blades there, since for two years now, his numbers have been absoultely unbelievably impressive. I think he can handle that responsibility.

Of course, we then have to build the DL while keeping in mind that we have no LBs over 240 lbs, and there are bruising OLs like Carolina's who pose impossible matchup issues (see preseason, game 3).

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=SmootSmack;521497]My somewhat educated guess says the following:

-We're going to show some interest in Peppers and Jordan Gross but it won't be all that intense. And, much to my dismay, we're not likely to go after Karlos Dansby either.

-We're going to offer a lot of money to Albert Haynesworth mainly because he's exactly what Blache has been asking for, a dominating interior lineman. Personally, I think the concerns about Big Al's character issues are a bit overrated. The bigger concern is really durability issues, he's only played one 16 game season in seven NFL seasons.

-Blache is really hoping Daniels' knee is up for at least one more year so he can put him back at DE opposite Andre Carter and allow the team to...

-Move Jason Taylor (who I think they figure out a way to keep) to weakside linebacker.

-If Daniels can't go, maybe they go with Evans again. Either way, I know that at this point DE is not high on their list (probably some late round pick if they get some extra picks) so I expect the 2009 starters are already on the roster

-Marcus Washington is probably gone (along with Griffin especially if they are able to get Haynesworth)

-McIntosh moves to the strongside but could be benched pretty quickly if they are able to get the guy they hope might fall to them in the draft...

-Aaron Curry. If he's there at #13 (not likely) the Redskins will probably take him and hope to trade late into the first round or into the top third of the second round to take an OT (deep class) like Beatty or Loadholt

-If Curry isn't there, they'll probably take an OT there at #13 and then hope to trade late into the first round or into the top third of the second round take an OLB like Cushing or Sintim. I think Cushing might actually be the guy they most want (little worried about that) but not at #13

-If they keep their third round pick, it may be an interior OL but it's more likely to be a running back

That's all for my somewhat educated guesses for now[/quote]

All this scares me because it sounds very plausible.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;521569]Alright, who do you think they're going after in the draft? You've been talking to the scouts. Is there anyone that the FO is rumored to be looking at with interest in the draft and FA?[/quote]

Well to be clear, I haven't been talking with Redskins scouts (not yet at least), but I've talked to some scouts and other execs in the league who have given me their impressions (based on observations and conversations) and everyone pretty much at this point believes the Redskins want to add an OLB and an OT first and that they will probably draft RB before DL, I think the Skins like this guy Jeremiah Johnson in the 3rd round potentially.

This is going to change so many times but if the draft was today, my suspicion is they'd take Cushing at 13.

Interestingly enough, one of the scouts was talking about Vinny and Snyder and he said they have the right idea but he doesn't understand their execution. For example, he thinks it was absolutely the right idea to go after a couple of WRs last year because beyond Crabtree and Maclin he doesn't believe the class is as strong this year. But he thinks they could have done better than Kelly and Thomas. He thinks they could have afforded to wait a round or two and take another receiver deeper in the draft. For what that's worth.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=SmootSmack;521589]Interestingly enough, one of the scouts was talking about Vinny and Snyder and he said they have the right idea but he doesn't understand their execution. For example, he thinks it was absolutely the right idea to go after a couple of WRs last year because beyond Crabtree and Maclin he doesn't believe the class is as strong this year. But he thinks they could have done better than Kelly and Thomas. He thinks they could have afforded to wait a round or two and take another receiver deeper in the draft. For what that's worth.[/quote]I agree with this scout (wow, I just wrote that?). Trading down, drafting for value, grabbing long term positions first, all good things, actual evaluation of said players: awful bordering on irresponsible.

It's clear that Vinny and co. know what they need to do to be successful. It seems like it might be more of a crapshoot for the current unit then the Gibbs-lead front office.

I'm pretty much basing this on 1) the selection of Devin Thomas, and 2) the lack of evidence to disprove this theory.

Small sample, I know, but that's what I'm getting. They do a lot of things better than the Gibbs-led front office, but tell a good prospect from a bad prospect at the same position does not appear to be one of those things.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

A crap shoot is a lot better than trading all of your picks for FAs. At least they're trying to draft now. If they keep making the right moves I'll find it harder and harder to bad mouth the FO. The final book hasn't been written on last years draft, just the introduction.
From what Smoot Smack has been saying, that crap that Vinny spewed about not drafting for need is hog-wash. When the coaches tell you they need this and that, you have to take that into consideration.
I'm not a DS or VC fan but I think they're starting to learn. Who knows what will happen? The next lesson for them that they should've learned a long time ago is not to go after retirement players. I'd go after some more reliable cheaper FAs then one big name. That's just me. Every time I see some big team winning a big game it's usually a no-name player that makes the difference.
I'd be happy with a 2005 repeat and blow out Dallas and Filthy with a split with Jersey. I was so happy about that.
Good Smack, Smooter. Keep us in the down low.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=RedskinMike;521513]you seem to forget we had the #4 ranked defense in the league[/quote]

We could not beat anyone that had won more than 9 games. We had an 8-8 record. We have a good defense. We could have a great defense with one or two elite DL.

I know this statistic - which is based on yardage yielded. Yet, our defense got few sacks and few turnovers and points for their team.

In the NFL you've got to be able to generate turnovers and points on the defense. We could not; nor could not stop the best QB.

This justification is why this team can't improve past 8-9 wins because for a decade we've drafted WR and DB, or used our FA money to chase aged players. Our overall win-loss statistics shows the result of that philosophy regardless of the coaches.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Before I forget. If what Smootsmack said has the merrit that I think it has then that's seems like a direct contradiction against Vinny's front for "oh we take the best player available because when you draft for need you get in trouble." What Smoot described sounded more like a "thats our guy" mentality (especially with the infatuation as it relates to Cushing) as well as the idea that they can get this particular running back in the third round. To elaborate it sounds like they already know what they want and they're going along the path of do first, answer questions later.

Maybe I'm wrong but from where I'm sitting this is how the front office's possible "plan" looks.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=A10sROCK;521648]We could not beat anyone that had won more than 9 games. We had an 8-8 record. We have a good defense. We could have a great defense with one or two elite DL.

I know this statistic - which is based on yardage yielded. Yet, our defense got few sacks and few turnovers and points for their team.

In the NFL you've got to be able to generate turnovers and points on the defense. We could not; nor could not stop the best QB.

This justification is why this team can't improve past 8-9 wins because for a decade we've drafted WR and DB, or used our FA money to chase aged players. Our overall win-loss statistics shows the result of that philosophy regardless of the coaches.[/quote]

If our offense would have been average, we could have won more than 9 wins. Arizona didn't have a top 10 defense, yet they are in the SB. We had a very good defense, but did not have the offense to compliment it. AZ has a very good offense, and their defense got better and were able to beat all these teams during the playoffs.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;521673]Before I forget. If what Smootsmack said has the merrit that I think it has then that's seems like a direct contradiction against Vinny's front for "oh we take the best player available because when you draft for need you get in trouble." What Smoot described sounded more like a "thats our guy" mentality (especially with the infatuation as it relates to Cushing) as well as the idea that they can get this particular running back in the third round. To elaborate it sounds like they already know what they want and they're going along the path of do first, answer questions later.

Maybe I'm wrong but from where I'm sitting this is how the front office's possible "plan" looks.[/quote]

It's not necessarily a contradiction. Yes they really like Cushing (from what I've heard) and they believe they need a linebacker but they won't necessarily take him if he's there if a better player (regardless of position is there) and they feel they can fill their need for a linebacker later on. It just so happens that they apparently think Cushing will be there at 13 (I don't see why he wouldn't be) and that he is not only a need but also the best player available at that point (assuming other players go as planned).

But it's so early in the process. Next week, approximately, the staff will start to really detail their wish list for free agency. Over the next couple of months as free agency shakes out, they'll get a sense of what they want to accomplish in the draft.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Ruhskins;521680]If our offense would have been average, we could have won more than 9 wins. Arizona didn't have a top 10 defense, yet they are in the SB. We had a very good defense, but did not have the offense to compliment it. [B]AZ has a very good offense, and their defense got better and were able to beat all these teams during the playoffs.[/B][/quote]I bolded this because it's a very good point, I feel. Sometimes, if poorly talented defenses can stay healthy through the whole year, 4-5 months is just enough time for the talent to bubble to the top, and problems that seemed like they would just make a one-and-done playoff teams, they tend to go away "at the right time". So, I think it's a good point that if you build the offense, the defense can come at the right time, regardless of how much you did/didn't invest in it.

But I have to disagree with the rest of your post. The difference between Arizona's offense and ours was philosophical, not necessarily inefficient. Arizona needed to score points to outpace the defense, while Washington prefered to keep the ball on the ground and speed up the game.

Was Arizona's offense better than ours? Yeah, I think I (and everyone else) would say so. But it's not a good comparision, because Arizona's offense was NOT as good as Atlanta, New York, Miami, when you consider the philosophy and the turnovers. Arizona offense, for most of the year at least, was closer to us then it was to the elite offenses. They still managed to win 9 games though.

I also can't wrap my head around the fact that an average offense would have resulted in a 10+ win season. I mean, you can rank our defense a bunch of different ways, none of them are particularly impressive to me. They are 4th in some rankings, 5th in others, and it's probably the most mediocre 4th or 5th in NFL history.

Not to say that defense wasn't the strength of the team, but it (as you mentioned) was an 8-8 team, one with poor special teams, and an offense that was hardly [I]inept[/I], even if all of our games were low scoring.

I would say if we had a great defense, we would have won 10-11 games by playing ball control offense and improved special teams. As it is, we were decent there, and won 8 games, which is about what I expected considering our pythag stats.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=GTripp0012;521707]I bolded this because it's a very good point, I feel. Sometimes, if poorly talented defenses can stay healthy through the whole year, 4-5 months is just enough time for the talent to bubble to the top, and problems that seemed like they would just make a one-and-done playoff teams, they tend to go away "at the right time". So, I think it's a good point that if you build the offense, the defense can come at the right time, regardless of how much you did/didn't invest in it.

But I have to disagree with the rest of your post. The difference between Arizona's offense and ours was philosophical, not necessarily inefficient. Arizona needed to score points to outpace the defense, while Washington prefered to keep the ball on the ground and speed up the game.

Was Arizona's offense better than ours? Yeah, I think I (and everyone else) would say so. But it's not a good comparision, because Arizona's offense was NOT as good as Atlanta, New York, Miami, when you consider the philosophy and the turnovers. Arizona offense, for most of the year at least, was closer to us then it was to the elite offenses. They still managed to win 9 games though.

I also can't wrap my head around the fact that an average offense would have resulted in a 10+ win season. I mean, you can rank our defense a bunch of different ways, none of them are particularly impressive to me. They are 4th in some rankings, 5th in others, and it's probably the most mediocre 4th or 5th in NFL history.

Not to say that defense wasn't the strength of the team, but it (as you mentioned) was an 8-8 team, one with poor special teams, and an offense that was hardly [I]inept[/I], even if all of our games were low scoring.

I would say if we had a great defense, we would have won 10-11 games by playing ball control offense and improved special teams. As it is, we were decent there, and won 8 games, which is about what I expected considering our pythag stats.[/quote]

I just feel that in some games, if we had been just a little bit better offensively, we could have won those games. I feel that in the second half of the season, the offense was unable to take advantage of the few turnovers that we had. In other games, tough stops made by the defense did not result in points when the offense took over. Or the offense could not move the ball in order to run the clock out (although we won that game, this happened during the last Philly game).

Our defense was not great, and I agree with you on that. We did not have the type of defense that Baltimore or Tennessee had, which can carry a team to 11 or 12 wins. However, we did have a good defense that led to 8 wins, while I feel we had an offense bad enough to lose 8 games. Had our bad offense been a little bit better, maybe we could have topped 9 or 10 wins.

There are people here that focus on the defense as a reason for our 8-8 season. And yes, we were probably the worst 4th or 5th ranked defense. However, if it wasn't for this defense, we could have gone worst than 8-8. Yes our defense needs to be addressed and improvements could be made. But let us not forget that major things need to happen with our offense. Otherwise, I don't think the defense can carry this team any longer.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=GTripp0012;521592]I agree with this scout (wow, I just wrote that?). Trading down, drafting for value, grabbing long term positions first, all good things, actual evaluation of said players: awful bordering on irresponsible.

It's clear that Vinny and co. know what they need to do to be successful. It seems like it might be more of a crapshoot for the current unit then the Gibbs-lead front office.

[B]I'm pretty much basing this on 1) the selection of Devin Thomas[/B], and 2) the lack of evidence to disprove this theory.

Small sample, I know, but that's what I'm getting. They do a lot of things better than the Gibbs-led front office, but tell a good prospect from a bad prospect at the same position does not appear to be one of those things.[/quote]

Maybe I'm missing the crux of your argument GT but the selection of Rinehardt in the 3rd round seems better evidence of what you say than DT in the 2nd. I kept hearing a lot of teams had Thomas scouted as 2nd round talent, meanwhile CR was scouted i believe as a 5th or 6th rounder. Danny/Vinny tried to add talent to the o-line but just missed (badly) w/ their selection, as CR has shown nothing and evidently lacks the confidence to compete up to this point.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

The scout thought Thomas and Kelly were each fine choices for where they were selected in the draft, but that the Redskins didn't need to draft both of them. One or the other should have been fine

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Ruhskins;521715]I just feel that in some games, if we had been just a little bit better offensively, we could have won those games. I feel that in the second half of the season, the offense was unable to take advantage of the few turnovers that we had. In other games, tough stops made by the defense did not result in points when the offense took over. Or the offense could not move the ball in order to run the clock out (although we won that game, this happened during the last Philly game).

Our defense was not great, and I agree with you on that. We did not have the type of defense that Baltimore or Tennessee had, which can carry a team to 11 or 12 wins. However, we did have a good defense that led to 8 wins, while I feel we had an offense bad enough to lose 8 games. Had our bad offense been a little bit better, maybe we could have topped 9 or 10 wins.

There are people here that focus on the defense as a reason for our 8-8 season. And yes, we were probably the worst 4th or 5th ranked defense. However, if it wasn't for this defense, we could have gone worst than 8-8. Yes our defense needs to be addressed and improvements could be made. But let us not forget that major things need to happen with our offense. Otherwise, I don't think the defense can carry this team any longer.[/quote]I agree with everything above, especially that the offense really struggled w/o Samuels and a running game.

I think a lot of people see an 11-win defense and a 5 win offense, when in reality, I think it's more like a 7-win offense, and 8-win defense, with poor special teams, and a little bit of luck.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=GTripp0012;521723]I agree with everything above, especially that the offense really struggled w/o Samuels and a running game.

[B]I think a lot of people see an 11-win defense[/B] and a 5 win offense, when in reality, I think it's more like a 7-win offense, and 8-win defense, with poor special teams, and a little bit of luck.[/quote]

I also think a lot of people had very high expectations of our defense, and compared our defense with Baltimore's or Tennessee's D. And given the talent our defense has and age issues, you are right, we were an 8-win offense. I would hope that our defense would get to the level of Baltimore or Tennessee, but addressing the defense cannot overshadow the issues on offense.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Ruhskins;521680]If our offense would have been average, we could have won more than 9 wins. Arizona didn't have a top 10 defense, yet they are in the SB. We had a very good defense, but did not have the offense to compliment it. AZ has a very good offense, and their defense got better and were able to beat all these teams during the playoffs.[/quote]

could'nt have said it better myself

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=SmootSmack;521722]The scout thought Thomas and Kelly were each fine choices for where they were selected in the draft, but that the Redskins didn't need to draft both of them. One or the other should have been fine[/quote]Well, I've been consistent on Thomas before the draft, during the draft, and now that he's a Redskin. And I think Kelly should (at least) work out like we expect him to.

I haven't been consistent on whether we needed multiple receivers out of this draft. I thought we could use veterans to fufill the need (which ultimately we didn't do) at WR, and use our picks elsewhere, but after the draft, I did some research and now I respect the strategy they used in the year they did (which is the point the scout made).

But, I will never accept the justification that it was okay to misvalue prospects because a lot of draft analysts made the same mistake. I do think Vinny needs to surround himself with the best possible people. And the people who looked at DT's profile (and, for that matter, Kelly's as well) and gave him a first round grade...I mean that's an elementary mistake in my opinion.

I might still be in the minority that thinks DT's rookie season was a draft mistake, and not a coaching/work ethic mistake, but the concerns that made me think he wasn't a top three round guy were noticed (and largely ignored) by most.

I think at this point I'm getting pretty far off topic (especially when you consider this is a Peppers thread), so I'll just say that I can't agree that we did our homework on all three of our second round picks and didn't rely on outside advice more than we should have.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=GTripp0012;521741]

I think at this point I'm getting pretty far off topic (especially when you consider this is a Peppers thread), so I'll just say that I can't agree that we did our homework on all three of our second round picks and didn't rely on outside advice more than we should have.[/quote]

I still say they really wanted receivers so as a result they drafted 3 pass catchers with their second round picks and decided that the best player available approach was an easy way to get off the hook for not looking at players at other positions. Either way it comes down to one of two explanations for me.

1. They outright lied and claimed that Thomas, Davis, and Kelly were the highest rated players on their board to justify their actions.

2. Or as Gtripp alluded to their evaluation process is at the very least, incompetent, and they really did overvalue all three prospects.

What really happened will probably always be a mystery, but at the very least I'm scared that this years draft will have me feeling like all those past clips they show of Jet fans every year during the draft.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;521743]I still say they really wanted receivers so as a result they drafted 3 pass catchers with their second round picks and decided that the best player available approach was an easy way to get off the hook for not looking at players at other positions. Either way it comes down to one of two explanations for me.

[B]1. They outright lied and claimed that Thomas, Davis, and Kelly were the highest rated players on their board to justify their actions.[/B]

[B]2. Or as Gtripp alluded to their evaluation process is at the very least, incompetent, and they really did overvalue all three prospects.[/B]

What really happened will probably always be a mystery, but at the very least I'm scared that this years draft will have me feeling like all those past clips they show of Jet fans every year during the draft.[/quote]

I think it's sort of a combination of the two. I think they had each prospect overvalued, and even if each player wasn't their "best available" at the time, Vinny is BS-ing and saying as much.

I love that we traded down and added extra picks, I just don't like what we did with those picks at this point (they could pan out well, who knows).

What pissed me off was how shy we were about cutting draft picks (having all 10 make the 53-man was a bit of a reach). To me, that had Vinny trying to save face for his draft written all over it. Further evidence was cutting Torrence mid-season and keeping Tryon. Dumb, stubborn, and counterproductive.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;521743]I still say they really wanted receivers so as a result they drafted 3 pass catchers with their second round picks and decided that the best player available approach was an easy way to get off the hook for not looking at players at other positions. Either way it comes down to one of two explanations for me.

1. They outright lied and claimed that Thomas, Davis, and Kelly were the highest rated players on their board to justify their actions.

2. Or as Gtripp alluded to their evaluation process is at the very least, incompetent, and they really did overvalue all three prospects.

What really happened will probably always be a mystery, but at the very least I'm scared that this years draft will have me feeling like all those past clips they show of Jet fans every year during the draft.[/quote]If you allow me to defend them for a second, I imagine that there's excruciating pressure to take players that the TV draft analysts like more highly than you have them rated. Because that's how most fans value their prospects. And, frankly, they are right more than someone in their position probably should be.

So it is not unforgivable, to me, if Vinny says "we heard DT was a top 20 talent, and we like his physical abilities, and thought we could take a stab on him at No. 35".

That's bad drafting, yes, but I'd be okay with it if he would just come out and say that. I understand the pressure that he's under, and you absolutely need to take [I]some[/I] risks in the draft, albeit more calculated ones than this one. I don't expect them to pick 100% by any means.

Now that I've defended them, it is unforgivable if they don't learn from this and make a similar mistake again. I saw what the TV analysts were doing to DT, and I said, "wow, some team is going to get screwed by that pick." I don't feel good about calling that, because I happen to root for that team. But I'm also a realist, and I can't pretend I didn't say any of tha stuff pre-draft once this guy ends up on the Redskins.

I feel like the rest of the draft after Devin Thomas was uninspired, but I know we'll get our fair share of players out of it. But if they don't learn from what they did in the second round last year, history is bound to repeat itself.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

I think what's most likely the case is that they didn't contingency plan well enough so that they didn't properly evaluate all alternatives when the board (as it would always do) didn't go exactly as planned.

I think all three 2nd round choices will be just fine in the NFL, but at what cost?

As for Peppers, message boards around the interwebs are suggesting Colt Brennan be offered up in a deal for Peppers :)

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

And I think Mark Sanchez is the trendy name this year that people in the know don't think will be successful, but Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, and Mike Mayock (among the internet guys) will "express concern about" him and put then put him in their Top 5 of all draft eligible players. Thousands upon thousands of prospects, and it's going to be the guy with the flawed statistical profile who gets propelled into the top ten.

Things are seriously messed up with the draft process, and for the last 4-5 years, it's been ripe for the great, brilliant NFL execs to just totally rape the other teams who go through the motions and believe the whole thing is a crap-shoot.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

I actually think Gregg Williams had the draft process figured out to a degree. Have a feeling he screwed up on McIntosh's knees, but Sean Taylor, Carlos Rogers, LaRon Landry, Anthony Montgomery, Kedric Golston, HB Blades, it sure looks like he had the process figured out.

I'll have to keep an eye on Derrick Harvey, though, he didn't do much this year.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Apologies for steering this off of Peppers

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Let's get back on that Colt for Peppers deal. I think that would fly what do you guys think?

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Julius Peppers is great, but is he really worth our backup QB of the future?