Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=44ever;528885]I think they want their moneys worth. And if JT is looking to break into acting he know he needs lots of exposure. And one way to get it is making the highlights. As far as Carter, that is a question better suited for SmootSmack as I honestly dont know. What I do know is if we want "Jason Taylor" we better let him play his position or he means nothing.[/quote]

I agree. What do you think of Taylor at RDE, Carter to WLB, and McIntosh to SLB?

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Son Of Man;529229]I agree. What do you think of Taylor at RDE, Carter to WLB, and McIntosh to SLB?[/quote]

Carter really struggled at LB in San Fran. Taylor at WLB would make more sense

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;529196]Its not like we were taking a huge gamble. It was a FREAK injury that could not have been predicted. Sure, there were risks involved in getting Taylor, but the risks were very slim. By all appearnces, he should have done well here. as to his being misused by Blache, hopefully Blache can come up with something better this year. Blache is not a good d-coordinator and hopefully he'll retire after this season so someone more aggressive and less loyal to aging under-performing veterance will replace him.[/quote]

BHA u can't have it both ways... in one recent post u stated we typically have below-average talent on our roster and here u say Blache is a bad d-coordinator. Well if we really have below average talent (on d) and a bad coordinator how do we get to a 4th best overall rating?

... i tend to think our talent on d is above average slightly (very good secondary and average front 7 at least through last year) and our defensive coordinator does pretty well w/ what we've got but has made some serious errors. As GTripp has pointed out when we blitzed mostly last year the results were disastrous yet Blache didn't adjust quickly. Basically I'll say w/ a nice addition or two at OLB and the line (assuming we resign Hall) [B]and[/B] if Blache learns from his flubs we'll continue to be a top 5 defense.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=53Fan;529206]Let me make this clear. I have no beef with Taylor nor do I question his talent. If we use him to maximize his talents...fine. If not...the trade sucks...period. I just find it somewhat distressing that the season after we give up a couple of picks and 8.5 mil we're discussing how he should be used and [B]whether he's worth it[/B].[/quote]

I think in hindsight, we will never get any benefit out of this trade. The trade looked good at the beginning considering JT's caliber, but the 2nd rd pick seemed high. I hope he 'explodes' in 09 to justify $8.5m we are giving him. I don't think he will be playing in '10 unless we offer him another $8.5m (I hope not). We traded for him so he can contribute immediately but he got injured (not his fault) but we still paid him $8.5m for 3 sacks and 21 tackles! That is BS but we have no choice but to pay the man. this year we have a choice, but we decided to bring him back to get some value out of this trade and whether it pans out or not, it will cost us another $8.5m.

I really hope it works out this year but overall, the dolphins and JT profited from this one while we come away losing a 2nd rounder (possibly Ziggy Hood) and $17m poorer and possibly still be looking for a future RDE in '10.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

Well said Hamoskinz!

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

If Jason Taylor is granted the freedom to shoot the gaps as he desires then 64.2% of you will be eating your words in February 2010.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;529355][B]If[/B] Jason Taylor is granted the freedom to shoot the gaps as he desires then 64.2% of you will be eating your words in February 2010.[/quote]

[B]IF he's granted the freedom.[/B] That's my whole point. Should that even be a question? Why did we sign him last year at such a steep price and NOT allow him to have freedom? Should'nt we already know how we're going to use an established player whose been in the league for YEARS before we give up 2 draft picks and 8.5 million for him? It's funny how everyone who thinks this is a good deal precedes their comments with "IF". Nobody's really [B]SURE[/B] how we're going to use him are they? That's the problem. Halfway through the 2 years we signed him for, they're trying to figure out the best way to use him. It's getting kinda late for that isn't it? The original trade was not worth it but there's no need in crying over spilt milk. Is it worth it to keep him this year at 8.5? Maybe..[B]IF [/B]they use him to the best of his abilities and we can still stop the run.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

I'm concerned about what some are talking about doing. Move Taylor to RDE. Ok, he did better there in Miami so moving him will help him but not Carter. Carter is small also to be on the LDE spot. Is there a chance we rotate Carter and Taylor to keep fresh legs on the field. Is there a chance we move Taylor to LB on the same side as Carter creating an over load on one side? Move Evans to LDE? Move whoever is on Carters side now at LB or the other side? Then look for another big body to help clog the middle and stop the run/ create a pass rush?

Is that why DS was having dinner with Haynesworth's agent to get a feel for the money needed to bring him in. Then speak with the coach's and see if letting someone go is the answer to picking up Haynesworth? or was he talking with the agent about a draft prospect? I don't see how they could do it money wise but could they still sign Haynesworth for the D-line help we need keep Taylor and move him and still sign Hall? Who would have to be let go for that to work? I just can't see us doing all of it.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;529355]If Jason Taylor is granted the freedom to shoot the gaps as he desires then 64.2% of you will be eating your words in February 2010.[/quote]
Won't the ultimate irony be if he turns in a dynamite season and all of the naysayers then turn into a 'let's offer him a 2 year deal so he doesn't retire' crowd?

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Son Of Man;529229]I agree. What do you think of Taylor at RDE, Carter to WLB, and McIntosh to SLB?[/quote]

I think thats a good idea SOM.
IMO I think we should put JT at RDE (period) Then fill in the gaps the best we can. Carter at LB I think is not "great" but solid enough. McIntosh works IMO at SLB.

Originally Posted by [B]Paintrain[/B] Won't the ultimate irony be if he turns in [B]a dynamite season [/B]and all of the [B]naysayers then turn into a 'let's offer him a 2 year deal so he doesn't retire'[/B] crowd?

I think that is the most likely scenario Paintrain :)

[quote]Originally Posted by Dirtbag359
If Jason Taylor is granted the freedom to shoot the gaps as he desires then 64.2% of you will be eating your words in February 2010.[/quote]

Right On Dirtbag :food-smil

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Paintrain;529380]Won't the ultimate irony be if he turns in a dynamite season and all of the naysayers then turn into a 'let's offer him a 2 year deal so he doesn't retire' crowd?[/quote]

Of course if he doesn't everyone will say he wasn't used correctly. I think we could have got him for less and I think that's important when we need other FA's this year. JMO.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=53Fan;529451]Of course if he doesn't [B]everyone will say he wasn't used correctly.[/B] I think we could have got him for less and I think that's important when we need other FA's this year. JMO.[/quote]

53 You and I both know if he is not in that RDE position then thats exacly what they will say. With good reason. I dont have as much of an issue with the 8.5 under the circumstances. We can only hope the $ was considered by FO and discussed with his agent.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

I don't mind eating my words and Taylor goes crazy in our defense than vice versa. Anyway, its done and he is staying in B'n'g so I'm hoping Blache gives him the flexibility to move around and makes plays and stay 120% healthy throughout the year.

HTTR

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Hamoskinz;529469]I don't mind eating my words and Taylor goes crazy in our defense than vice versa. Anyway, its done and he is staying in B'n'g so I'm hoping Blache gives him the flexibility to move around and makes plays and stay 120% healthy throughout the year.

HTTR[/quote]

Absolutely. The team winning is much more important to me than anything else. I hope he has a James Harrison year.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

The FO needs to cut this guy ASAP. Go get someone who is going to be here 4-5 years. Not a guy who is here for one more year at 8 million. This whole JT thing is a big mess. It was a mess when they made the trade and it's even worse now. Even when he was healthy he wasn't doing a damn thing and it all starts with your off season preperation and JT did none. That's why Parcells got rid of him. When you get to the age JT is at you have to work harder to keep yourself playing at a high level and he didn't do it. Then he got hurt. But I'd be willing to bet that if he didn't get hurt he would've had an off year. Parcells is no dummy. You think Parcells is going to get rid of a top NFL pass rusher if he thinks he can still help him win? Parcells got over on us and it's time to cut the cord and move on.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=SmootSmack;529025]I like that he's coming back for another season.

-It's not up to him to decide to restructure. The Redskins should go to Taylor and his agent if they want to restructure, not the other way around. And, I don't consider myself a cap expert, but I'm sure there are good reasons for not restructuring his deal where it potentially hurts us more in the long run.

-He has no reason to ask for a pay cut. He earned his contract...by being one of the best defensive players in the league for the past decade. The fact that he was hurt last year is irrelevant to the contract he signed before he arrived.

-There seems to be a prevaling gloom and doom feeling that he's about to have a Simeon Rice like drop-off and be a worthless scrub...or he could bounce back from injury at his age and have a strong season a la Michael Strahan.

-He had one of his best seasons ever, I think he even won defensive MVP, playing a lot of linebacker back in 2006.

-I don't know what the plan is for him and Andre Carter. Carter did have some success last year when they lined him up at LDE against the Vikings. Two things to consider though, a stalwart-Daniels-was lined up on the other side and the Vikings are not really a passing threat anyway. Either way, JT showed he can still play the game during the albeit limited time he was healthy. And, like I said before, he's one of the best defensive players to play the game in the last decade and he hasn't really had any injury problems until his one injury last year. It's up to Blache, Olivadotti, and Palermo to take advantage of his incredible talents and put him in the right positions to succeed.[/quote]

But even when JT wasn't hurt he played like crap. He couldn't get to the passer or play the run. All he did was bat down some passes. So why take the risk for a guy that's not going be here for the off season program and only going to be here for one more year? That makes no sense to me. I'd rather keep Evans and bring in a guy like Canty than keep Taylor.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=skinsfan69;529498]But even when JT wasn't hurt he played like crap. He couldn't get to the passer or play the run. All he did was bat down some passes. [B]So why take the risk for a guy that's not going be here for the off season program and only going to be here for one more year?[/B] That makes no sense to me. I'd rather keep Evans and bring in a guy like Canty than keep Taylor.[/quote]

I haven't heard anything about him not being here in the offseason? Have you? Also, none of our players could get to the passer all season.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Ruhskins;529501]I haven't heard anything about him not being here in the offseason? Have you? [B] Also, none of our players could get to the passer all season[/B].[/quote]

I thought that's why we paid big bucks and draft picks for JT.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=53Fan;529514]I thought that's why we paid big bucks and draft picks for JT.[/quote]

True but the expectation was for both JT and Carter to have a good season in getting to the QB, and they didn't. Carter is also getting paid big bucks (which we just restructured). I think overall there was an issue with the line, although, I think it's a bit silly to pine so much on the woes of the defense, given that they were the better of the two units.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

:) So we should just sit back and let the "D" ride then? Ok.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=53Fan;529535]:) So we should just sit back and let the "D" ride then? Ok.[/quote]

Nah, I just think that it is silly of us to have all of these arguments over the defense, when it was the offense that screwed up.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Ruhskins;529540]Nah, I just think that it is silly of us to have all of these arguments over the defense, [B]when it was the offense that screwed up[/B].[/quote]

I agree with you 100% there Ruhskins. :)

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Ruhskins;529501]I haven't heard anything about him not being here in the offseason? Have you? Also, none of our players could get to the passer all season.[/quote]

Do you honestly think that JT is going to be in Ashburn working out with the rest of the guys? He didn't even work out when the new staff came in at Miami and that's the main reason he got traded.

True none of the other guys got to the passer but none of them make 8 mil.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=skinsfan69;529559]Do you honestly think that JT is going to be in Ashburn working out with the rest of the guys? He didn't even work out when the new staff came in at Miami and that's the main reason he got traded.

True none of the other guys got to the passer but none of them make 8 mil.[/quote]

Of course he will. He never had a history of missing OTA's before last year. He was embroiled in a public spat with Parcells and the Dolphins organization and was involved with Dancing With the Stars.

Seriously, Taylor's commitment should be the least of our concerns. He's here for a year, he's got his money, he's out to prove his worth and ability. He has never been a money guy (like Haynesworth may be) or a 'me' guy just interested in himself. He's a pride guy and I think last year will motivate him even more to prove it was a fluke and he's not done.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Mattyk72;528894]Regardless, I would still give the worst move to the Bungals for franchising their kicker. There are probably others too that one is just off the top of my head.[/quote]

Who else could they franchise? That tells you how sad they are in the talent department.

Separetely, I think the Pats made the smartest move with the tag.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

We signed him to a 2 year deal. Let's see what he's got going for number 2. He didn't have an incredible year last year by any stretch of the imagination. Do you cut your losses and use that money this year, or do you give him this last chance to earn that money?

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Monksdown;529865]We signed him to a 2 year deal. Let's see what he's got going for number 2. He didn't have an incredible year last year by any stretch of the imagination. Do you cut your losses and use that money this year, or do you give him this last chance to earn that money?[/quote]

Let's not lose sight of why we gave JT 8.5m. He was not brought here to prove he's worth the 8m. Neither does he need to earn it. We paid him 8.5 Because he's JT. And a healthy JT is a dominate Football player. He has nothing to prove. Let's just hope he stays healthy so he can play JT football. Let's also hope FO plays him RDE. So he can do his thing.

With that said I do think he will have a BIG season.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=44ever;529872]Let's not lose sight of why we gave JT 8.5m. He was not brought here to prove he's worth the 8m. Neither does he need to earn it. We paid him 8.5 Because he's JT. And a healthy JT is a dominate Football player. He has nothing to prove. Let's just hope he stays healthy so he can play JT football. Let's also hope FO plays him RDE. So he can do his thing.

With that said I do think he will have a BIG season.[/quote]

your first and last paragraphs seem contradictory to me. If he's not going to have a BIG season, we should not pay him 8.5M. We didnt bring him here last year because he's JT - we brought him here because Daniels got hurt and we didnt trust our other DEs. If we keep Taylor this year, its probably to play OLB. He wont be a good DE in a 4-3 system unless we had someone like Haynesworth at DT.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote]Originally Posted by [B]44ever[/B]
Let's not lose sight of why we gave JT 8.5m. He was not brought here to prove he's worth the 8m. Neither does he need to earn it. We paid him 8.5 Because he's JT. And a healthy JT is a dominate Football player. He has nothing to prove. Let's just hope he stays healthy so he can play JT football. Let's also hope FO plays him RDE. So he can do his thing.

With that said I do think he will have a BIG season.[/quote]

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;529880]your first and last paragraphs seem contradictory to me. If he's not going to have a BIG season, we should not pay him 8.5M. We didnt bring him here last year because he's JT - we brought him here because Daniels got hurt and we didnt trust our other DEs. If we keep Taylor this year, its probably to play OLB. He wont be a good DE in a 4-3 system unless we had someone like Haynesworth at DT.[/quote]

[quote]your first and last paragraphs seem contradictory to me[/quote]
I dont see the contradiction, I never said he would'nt have a big season.

[quote]If he's not going to have a BIG season, we should not pay him 8.5M.[/quote]
Should'nt that be the case for every player in the league. There are no guarantees, you know that.

[quote]We didnt bring him here last year because he's JT - we brought him here because Daniels got hurt and we didnt trust our other DEs[/quote]
Are you saying Daniels was worth bringing in a guy at 8.5m plus giving up draft picks for? We brought in JT because he's JT. There where better ways of filling the Daniels gap.

[quote]He wont be a good DE in a 4-3 system [/quote]
He played most of his career in a 4-3

BHA, I think you misunderstood my post:smashfrea

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Paintrain;529578]Of course he will. He never had a history of missing OTA's before last year. He was embroiled in a public spat with Parcells and the Dolphins organization and was involved with Dancing With the Stars.

Seriously, Taylor's commitment should be the least of our concerns. He's here for a year, he's got his money, he's out to prove his worth and ability. He has never been a money guy (like Haynesworth may be) or a 'me' guy just interested in himself. He's a pride guy and I think last year will motivate him even more to prove it was a fluke and he's not done.[/quote]

I say move on. I want guys that are going want to put on the burgundy and gold. Not guys that are looking to extend their careers and pocketing more money. There is no way you can tell me that Taylor's heart is into playing here cause it's not. I get so tired of bringing in other teams players. When is this non sense ever going to stop?? Nothing in the past proves that building a team and making other teams players the highest paid on your own team works. Show me one example of any NFL team that has won a SB by bringing in old free agents or other teams players??

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=skinsfan69;529890]I say move on. I want guys that are going want to put on the burgundy and gold. Not guys that are looking to extend their careers and pocketing more money. There is no way you can tell me that Taylor's heart is into playing here cause it's not. I get so tired of bringing in other teams players. When is this non sense ever going to stop?? Nothing in the past proves that building a team and making other teams players the highest paid on your own team works. Show me one example of any NFL team that has won a SB by bringing in old free agents or other teams players??[/quote]Oakland got there, but got beat in 2002 by a team that was stronger-built than they were.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=GTripp0012;529897]Oakland got there, but got beat in 2002 by a team that was stronger-built than they were.[/quote]

Oak. is a good example. They had a nice 3 year run from 2000-2002. But what happened after that? Guys got old and the team crumbled and is on a 6 year run of playing bad football.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=skinsfan69;529994]Oak. is a good example. They had a nice 3 year run from 2000-2002. But what happened after that? Guys got old and the team crumbled and is on a 6 year run of playing bad football.[/quote]They tried to get back to glory by overpaying for bad players.

2003 was a direct result of 2001 and 2002 for the Raiders. It's hard to remember now, but that team was pretty competitive under Norv. They've just been a total sinkhole ever since he left.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

Al Davis is completely senile. After the release of Javon Walker, they will have cut all of their high dollar fa acquisitions from last year.