Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

and besides when did Thomas and Kelly rise up on the depth chart?...when they get their real chance...then pass judgement

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

I think we've got to give them 3 years. However if Thomas doesn't grow up then I'd cut him in pre season. It's just not worth it to sit around and baby sit guys. This is pro football. I can understand it taking time to start producing on the field. But I don't want to hear anything about not knowing the plays, not knowing where to line up and running routes too short. Be a pro cause that's what you're paid to do.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=terpsez11;535877]linking them together is a real mistake..Kelly was hurt..and Thomas improved like a 2nd round receiver..[B]since when do rookies contribute at wideout?..[/B]Desean Jackson at Philly caught almost every pass on the same damn McNabb scramble play where he slanted across every seam and was the safety valve..on third down..and he dropped a mess of passes

when will the Skins get some consistent production at QB?...so we can adequately judge the rest of the Offense..people blast our O-linemen and our receiver corp..when it is Jason that plays like he thinks he is still in the SEC[/quote]


Terpsez - please see attached list for a few rookie wrs that "contributed".....
[URL="http://fftoday.com/articles/marcoccio/08_young_targets.htm"]Young Targets: An Examination of Rookie WRs - Salvatore Marcoccio III - FF Today[/URL]

Also - the Skins knew Kelly was inujury prone - combining these two is not a mistake - whether a player is on the field and does not produce or a player that is not on the field due to injury after injury and does not produce - you still get the same result - little to no production either way.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

Where in the hell is all of this negativity toward Thomas comming from? Talking about he has a bad attitude and needs to grow up etc... The media threw you a little piece of dirt early last season and you guys have ran half way across the planet with it. He started comming around mid season last year. In fact this offseason he is training with Santana Moss in Miami (sorry no link).

I guess he needs to mature more and stop spending time with fans too.

[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2009/03/10/devin-thomas-makes-friends/]Devin Thomas Makes Friends[/url]

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Angry;535952]Where in the hell is all of this negativity toward Thomas comming from? Talking about he has a bad attitude and needs to grow up etc... The media threw you a little piece of dirt early last season and you guys have ran half way across the planet with it. He started comming around mid season last year. In fact this offseason he is training with Santana Moss in Miami (sorry no link).

I guess he needs to mature more and stop spending time with fans too.

[URL="http://blog.redskins.com/2009/03/10/devin-thomas-makes-friends/"]Devin Thomas Makes Friends[/URL][/quote]

That's a really nice gesture. It says nothing about his work ethic, but I'm glad he's a good dude.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=GMScud;535969]That's a really nice gesture. It says nothing about his work ethic, but I'm glad he's a good dude.[/quote]

My work ethic argument was based on the fact that he is working out with Moss in the offseason. I can remember where I read it and now I cannot find a link. Now some jackass is going to come along and question the validity of that statement. I just know it.

If you remember a couple of weeks ago they had an article about Malcolm Kelly already spending time working out at Redskin Park. Well, around the same time frame they had the article about Thomas and Moss working out in Miami. Now it is nowhere to be found. I have a very good memory and the fact that I cannot find it is pissing me off.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

I say we at least give them another year, we did use 2nd round picks on these guy's...

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Angry;535975]My work ethic argument was based on the fact that he is working out with Moss in the offseason. I can remember where I read it and now I cannot find a link. Now some jackass is going to come along and question the validity of that statement. I just know it.

If you remember a couple of weeks ago they had an article about Malcolm Kelly already spending time working out at Redskin Park. Well, around the same time frame they had the article about Thomas and Moss working out in Miami. Now it is nowhere to be found. I have a very good memory and the fact that I cannot find it is pissing me off.[/quote]

Don't get angry Angry, I saw it too. It's all good. :)

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Angry;535975]My work ethic argument was based on the fact that he is working out with Moss in the offseason. I can remember where I read it and now I cannot find a link. Now some jackass is going to come along and question the validity of that statement. I just know it.

If you remember a couple of weeks ago they had an article about Malcolm Kelly already spending time working out at Redskin Park. Well, around the same time frame they had the article about Thomas and Moss working out in Miami. Now it is nowhere to be found. I have a very good memory and the fact that I cannot find it is pissing me off.[/quote]

Calm down. SmootSmack mentioned his Miami workouts earlier in this thread, and a friend of mine who trains at Redskins Park confirmed as much with me yesterday. When I mentioned work ethic I was more referring to his 2008 season. I'm sure he was told that better preparation is a condition of employment moving forward.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Bill B;535935]Terpsez - [B]please see attached list for a few rookie wrs that "contributed"[/B].....
[URL="http://fftoday.com/articles/marcoccio/08_young_targets.htm"]Young Targets: An Examination of Rookie WRs - Salvatore Marcoccio III - FF Today[/URL]

Also - the Skins knew Kelly was inujury prone - combining these two is not a mistake - whether a player is on the field and does not produce or a player that is not on the field due to injury after injury and does not produce - you still get the same result - little to no production either way.[/quote]
Nice article but in it it says:
[quote]. Of course picking the right rookie is the key factor. [B]Far and away, most rookies don’t even sniff these totals, [/B]so let’s look at some factors that may help one find a rookie gem on draft day.

1. [B]Opportunity: Obviously a rookie needs to receive significant time on the field as a prerequisite for putting up stats that lead to fantasy points. A young wide receiver that is going to sit behind veterans will not help your squad. [/B]There’s no need to really explore this factor much further, since it’s quite apparent all who appear on the list above must have received an opportunity to see playing time as first year players due to either superior talent or injury to a teammate. [/quote]

Bottom line really is that last year neither were on the field due to various reasons, including the fact that Moss and ARE were NOT going to be benched out the gate.

This is a good year for the offense to take a maturation step across the board and show that it can win games for us when the D does its job.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;535907]I think we've got to give them 3 years. [b] However if Thomas doesn't grow up then I'd cut him in pre season.[/b] It's just not worth it to sit around and baby sit guys. This is pro football. I can understand it taking time to start producing on the field. But I don't want to hear anything about not knowing the plays, not knowing where to line up and running routes too short. Be a pro cause that's what you're paid to do.[/quote]
Wow. Would you have cut Steve Smith after he got into a fight in the film room during his 2nd season? If so you would have cut one of the best WR in the league whose production hadn't yet emerged. Some of you guys really need to eat some reality soup and get a clue. It takes some guys time to develop and yes, to learn how to be a professional! My God, give people a chance to grow into their careers before talking about cutting them in the preseason. SMH.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Paintrain;536154]Wow. Would you have cut Steve Smith after he got into a fight in the film room during his 2nd season? If so you would have cut one of the best WR in the league whose production hadn't yet emerged. Some of you guys really need to eat some reality soup and get a clue. It takes some guys time to develop and yes, to learn how to be a professional! My God, give people a chance to grow into their careers before talking about cutting them in the preseason. SMH.[/quote]

Very good post, your points are a good response to people that are obviously clueless about the development of a young player. Everyone wants results right away. It's funny how folks in here say the line "we must build through the draft" when you pull their strings, yet they get impatient when building through the draft takes longer than a season.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;536157]Very good post, your points are a good response to people that are obviously clueless about the development of a young player. Everyone wants results right away. It's funny how folks in here say the line "we must build through the draft" when you pull their strings, yet they get impatient when building through the draft takes longer than a season.[/quote]

You pointed out the ultimate irony! For all of the whining about wanting to build thru the draft how many would be willing to live with 4-12, 6-10, 8-8 while the draft classes come into their own to become a consistent 10-6, 12-4 type team? The FO 'built thru the draft' last year and got ripped all year for the draft picks not becoming Hall of Famers out of the gate. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Vinny guy, but it's frustrating to hear the constant whining and complaining regardless of which direction we go. So ridiculous.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Paintrain;536154]Wow. Would you have cut Steve Smith after he got into a fight in the film room during his 2nd season? If so you would have cut one of the best WR in the league whose production hadn't yet emerged. Some of you guys really need to eat some reality soup and get a clue. It takes some guys time to develop and yes, to learn how to be a professional! My God, give people a chance to grow into their careers before talking about cutting them in the preseason. SMH.[/quote]Well, DT was never an established college talent, which is where he gets a different standard for us than Kelly, who had two great years at Oklahoma after contributing significantly as a freshman. Thomas never once entered a season as Michigan State's go to receiver. So there was no book on how he could deal with adversity -- he had never faced any.

So unlike Kelly, Thomas has to prove to US that he belongs in the NFL. His rookie year was more evidence to the contrary that he's likely not an NFL skilled receiver. Kelly on the other hand has to prove he can stay healthy. If he can do that for us, we appear more than willing to wait for his development.

It's conceivable that DT is simply not the player we thought we drafted AND that Malcolm Kelly's injury history is too much to overcome. That's a very real possibility for us. Fred Davis, though, seems to be well on his way to NFL competency with no real red flags.

I'm optimistic but realistic on Kelly. On Thomas, I'm just realistic.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

I expect Malcom to do great things for us and I can see Devin making some absolutely jaw dropping catches, and I expect for them to start showing flashes this year. However, expectations are like wishes and we all know what the outcome is when you wish in one hand and sh*t in the other. They are both capable of being good ball players and they most likely will be. The ultimate question is whether or not it will be in Washington, because after this season- no producee-no playee and back to trading away draft picks for over the hill players who will never play the same for us as their former team. (even though we seem to be shying away from that "been there, tried that" strategy) But I put nothing past the FO...nothing. Hopefully they will just work out for us.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;536168]Well, DT was never an established college talent, which is where he gets a different standard for us than Kelly, who had two great years at Oklahoma after contributing significantly as a freshman. Thomas never once entered a season as Michigan State's go to receiver. So there was no book on how he could deal with adversity -- he had never faced any.

So unlike Kelly, Thomas has to prove to US that he belongs in the NFL. His rookie year was more evidence to the contrary that he's likely not an NFL skilled receiver. Kelly on the other hand has to prove he can stay healthy. If he can do that for us, we appear more than willing to wait for his development.

It's conceivable that DT is simply not the player we thought we drafted AND that Malcolm Kelly's injury history is too much to overcome. That's a very real possibility for us. Fred Davis, though, seems to be well on his way to NFL competency with no real red flags.

I'm optimistic but realistic on Kelly. On Thomas, I'm just realistic.[/quote]

Don't forget that, for all of the reasons you mentioned, we should expect Thomas to have growing pains. For all of the reasons you mentioned, it would be foolish to expect Thomas to be a tiger out of the gate.

He came out of college early. His peers are still going to frat parties every weekend. He has growing up to do.

I'm not saying he will be a star. But if he is to become a star, we likely should expect the situation with him to be as it has been.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Lotus;536170]Don't forget that, for all of the reasons you mentioned, we should expect Thomas to have growing pains. For all of the reasons you mentioned, it would be foolish to expect Thomas to be a tiger out of the gate.

He came out of college early. His peers are still going to frat parties every weekend. He has growing up to do.

I'm not saying he will be a star. But if he is to become a star, we likely should expect the situation with him to be as it has been.[/quote]Understood, of course, and I certainly can't dispute anything you've said.

But I do think that makes significant progress this year all the more critical than say Malcolm Kelly. Devin Thomas smelled like a bust pre-draft 2008. He didn't "smell" right. Last season, he "looked" like a guy who simply was overwhelmed by the game.

This year, he's going to play. And the thread title has to do with how long we keep him. So if he looks like a bust, smells like a bust, and this year, he plays like a bust...I think the answer is, we don't keep him any longer.

If he looks and smells like a bust, but shows a few signs of development this season...well, now it's a lot more complicated. Because he is still likely a bust...but you don't want to cut him loose only to have him breakout with a different team. So with even minor improvement, he gets a third year.

Malcolm Kelly is different. His first year is totally written off to injury, IMO. Gone. So if he has a meh year, but stays healthy, he gets a third season. If he's hamstrung by injuries again this year which limit his production, I'd still give him a third year, but I'd definately lower the ultimate expectation.

My general philosophy is that it's better to cut a player one year early than one year too late, but being incorrect on a young player can have huge consequences, so you've just got to be right as soon as possible. Given the rookie years, this duo has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Somebody needs to bring the results right now.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;536178]Understood, of course, and I certainly can't dispute anything you've said.

But I do think that makes significant progress this year all the more critical than say Malcolm Kelly. Devin Thomas smelled like a bust pre-draft 2008. He didn't "smell" right. Last season, he "looked" like a guy who simply was overwhelmed by the game.

This year, he's going to play. And the thread title has to do with how long we keep him. So if he looks like a bust, smells like a bust, and this year, he plays like a bust...I think the answer is, we don't keep him any longer.

If he looks and smells like a bust, but shows a few signs of development this season...well, now it's a lot more complicated. Because he is still likely a bust...but you don't want to cut him loose only to have him breakout with a different team. So with even minor improvement, he gets a third year.

Malcolm Kelly is different. His first year is totally written off to injury, IMO. Gone. So if he has a meh year, but stays healthy, he gets a third season. If he's hamstrung by injuries again this year which limit his production, I'd still give him a third year, but I'd definately lower the ultimate expectation.

My general philosophy is that it's better to cut a player one year early than one year too late, but being incorrect on a young player can have huge consequences, so you've just got to be right as soon as possible. Given the rookie years, this duo has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Somebody needs to bring the results right now.[/quote]

You are correct about Devin Thomas appearing to be overwhelmed last year. You are also correct that he needs to show more than last year. My argument was that he needs growing time - well, he needs to show he has grown up somewhat. He can't be the same clueless, nonworking bonehead that he was last year.

He has so much raw talent that I hold out hope.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Paintrain;536163]You pointed out the ultimate irony! For all of the whining about wanting to build thru the draft how many would be willing to live with 4-12, 6-10, 8-8 while the draft classes come into their own to become a consistent 10-6, 12-4 type team? The FO 'built thru the draft' last year and got ripped all year for the draft picks not becoming Hall of Famers out of the gate. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Vinny guy, but it's frustrating to hear the constant whining and complaining regardless of which direction we go. So ridiculous.[/quote]

And then when we get involved in free agency, we don't get involved enough. We signed Haynesworth and Dockery? Well, what about Bodden, Canty, Brown, Willis, Bernard, Lechler, Asomugha, why didn't we get all those guys too????

But that's what fans are I guess....crazy, ridiculous, fanatics. The key is for the Front Office not to act like fans and we'll be fine

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536193]And then when we get involved in free agency, we don't get involved enough. We signed Haynesworth and Dockery? Well, what about Bodden, Canty, Brown, Willis, Bernard, Lechler, Asomugha, why didn't we get all those guys too????

But that's what fans are I guess....crazy, ridiculous, fanatics. The key is for the Front Office not to act like fans and we'll be fine[/quote]

The reason is because we gave up draft picks for Jason Taylor. Now we have more needs than picks. To remain competative this year we had to make some moves in FA and I can understand why some fans are upset. It would seem as if we had not addressed enough needs yet through FA.

If the FO didn't want to be scrutinized then they should not have given away multiple draft picks for a player that they might only get 2 seasons out of (we got 1 BTW). They shouldn't have wasted a Draft pick on a punter when there were still quality LB's left in the draft. They should have picked up at least 1 DE instead of two WR's and a TE. Hell, I am sure that we could have squeezed in another Olineman too. We had 10 picks (at one point) last year and addressed 2 basic positions (Pass catcher and Safety). Sprinkle in a OG, QB, and P and walla...we didn't do squat. Then we give away 2 picks in the same year for a guy that lasts one. It crippled us. We needed a big FA period this season... and no they haven't done enough.

And you guys think that the FO is damned if they do, or damned if they don't? Get real, they keep putting the team in bad situations with bad decisions. The one time that they had a good situation, they screwed it up big time.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536193]And then when we get involved in free agency, we don't get involved enough. We signed Haynesworth and Dockery? Well, what about Bodden, Canty, Brown, Willis, Bernard, Lechler, Asomugha, why didn't we get all those guys too????

But that's what fans are I guess....crazy, ridiculous, fanatics. The key is for the Front Office not to act like fans and we'll be fine[/quote]

Everyone thinks they can run the team better than the people actually doing it. You can hear it all day on NFL radio, people calling up with the most absurd takes and trade scenarios. I honestly don't know how the hosts of those shows take some of those calls with a straight face.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Angry;536199]The reason is because we gave up draft picks for Jason Taylor. Now we have more needs than picks. To remain competative this year we had to make some moves in FA and I can understand why some fans are upset. It would seem as if we had not addressed enough needs yet through FA.

If the FO didn't want to be scrutinized then they should not have given away multiple draft picks for a player that they might only get 2 seasons out of (we got 1 BTW). They shouldn't have wasted a Draft pick on a punter when there were still quality LB's left in the draft. They should have picked up at least 1 DE instead of two WR's and a TE. Hell, I am sure that we could have squeezed in another Olineman too. We had 10 picks (at one point) last year and addressed 2 basic positions (Pass catcher and Safety). Sprinkle in a OG, QB, and P and walla...we didn't do squat. Then we give away 2 picks in the same year for a guy that lasts one. It crippled us. We needed a big FA period this season... and no they haven't done enough.

And you guys think that the FO is damned if they do, or damned if they don't? Get real, they keep putting the team in bad situations with bad decisions. The one time that they had a good situation, they screwed it up big time.[/quote]

The FO is damned if they do or damned if they don't. As Matty said, everyone thinks they can run the team better. All FOs are going to make bad decisions, and all teams are not going to be able to address everything or have quality starters at every single position. Even the mighty NE Patriots just gave up a 4th rounder for a guy (Greg Lewis) that's at best the 3rd best wideout, had mediocre numbers last season, and is pushing 30 yrs. old.

Now I think you're bringing up an issue (giving up picks for Taylor) that has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Yes, giving up a two draft picks (well I think of it as one pick, b/c the other pick is not that valuable) for Jason Taylor was a mistake, big deal, get over it, complaining about it is not going to bring those two picks back. The issue at hand is that people are complaining that our two WRs did not have Pro Bowl stats in their first year. Which is ridiculous to expect this, given that most players need time to develop. My whole point is, if you mention the words "let's build through the draft" don't turn around and rant that Kelly and Thomas need to be cut b/c they didn't produce their first year.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;536236]The FO is damned if they do or damned if they don't. As Matty said, everyone thinks they can run the team better. All FOs are going to make bad decisions, and all teams are not going to be able to address everything or have quality starters at every single position. Even the mighty NE Patriots just gave up a 4th rounder for a guy (Greg Lewis) that's at best the 3rd best wideout, had mediocre numbers last season, and is pushing 30 yrs. old.

Now I think you're bringing up an issue (giving up picks for Taylor) that has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Yes, giving up a two draft picks (well I think of it as one pick, b/c the other pick is not that valuable) for Jason Taylor was a mistake, big deal, get over it, complaining about it is not going to bring those two picks back. The issue at hand is that people are complaining that our two WRs did not have Pro Bowl stats in their first year. Which is ridiculous to expect this, given that most players need time to develop. [B]My whole point is, if you mention the words "let's build through the draft" don't turn around and rant that Kelly and Thomas need to be cut b/c they didn't produce their first year.[/B][/quote]

Great post. I agree completely.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Angry;536199]The reason is because we gave up draft picks for Jason Taylor. Now we have more needs than picks. To remain competative this year we had to make some moves in FA and I can understand why some fans are upset. It would seem as if we had not addressed enough needs yet through FA.

If the FO didn't want to be scrutinized then they should not have given away multiple draft picks for a player that they might only get 2 seasons out of (we got 1 BTW). They shouldn't have wasted a Draft pick on a punter when there were still quality LB's left in the draft. They should have picked up at least 1 DE instead of two WR's and a TE. Hell, I am sure that we could have squeezed in another Olineman too. We had 10 picks (at one point) last year and addressed 2 basic positions (Pass catcher and Safety). Sprinkle in a OG, QB, and P and walla...we didn't do squat. Then we give away 2 picks in the same year for a guy that lasts one. It crippled us. We needed a big FA period this season... and no they haven't done enough.

And you guys think that the FO is damned if they do, or damned if they don't? Get real, they keep putting the team in bad situations with bad decisions. The one time that they had a good situation, they screwed it up big time.[/quote]

I hear what you're saying, but we only need to do a lot more if we're planning on winning it all this year. And yes, we'd all like that but to FRPLG's point maybe the fans should think more long term as opposed to the immediate here and now.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;536202]Everyone thinks they can run the team better than the people actually doing it. You can hear it all day on NFL radio, people calling up with the most absurd takes and trade scenarios. I honestly don't know how the hosts of those shows take some of those calls with a straight face.[/quote]

Who was it here yesterday that said the Redskins would be perennially in the playoffs if the front office just listened to the fans? That was funny. So let's see Colt starts at QB, Mix and McMullen at wideout, two backs with Mason and McCullough, we'll trade down then up back down again to get 8 picks from 3 different teams in the 2nd round, hire a "real GM" of course...

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;536236]The FO is damned if they do or damned if they don't. As Matty said, everyone thinks they can run the team better. All FOs are going to make bad decisions, and all teams are not going to be able to address everything or have quality starters at every single position. Even the mighty NE Patriots just gave up a 4th rounder for a guy (Greg Lewis) that's at best the 3rd best wideout, had mediocre numbers last season, and is pushing 30 yrs. old.[/quote]

And if I remember right, two years ago the Patriots' draft picks didn't do jack shit their first year in the pros. But they contributed in their second year

[quote]Now I think you're bringing up an issue (giving up picks for Taylor) that has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Yes, giving up a two draft picks (well I think of it as one pick, b/c the other pick is not that valuable) for Jason Taylor was a mistake, big deal, get over it, complaining about it is not going to bring those two picks back. The issue at hand is that people are complaining that our two WRs did not have Pro Bowl stats in their first year. Which is ridiculous to expect this, given that most players need time to develop. My whole point is, if you mention the words "let's build through the draft" don't turn around and rant that Kelly and Thomas need to be cut b/c they didn't produce their first year.[/quote]

Great job.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536254]Who was it here yesterday that said the Redskins would be perennially in the playoffs if the front office just listened to the fans? That was funny. So let's see Colt starts at QB, Mix and McMullen at wideout, two backs with Mason and McCullough, we'll trade down then up back down again to get 8 picks from 3 different teams in the 2nd round, hire a "real GM" of course...[/quote]

And they would sign a whole bunch of offensive linemen under 25 yrs old JUST because they are under 25 years old. And don't forget the infamous "Jason Campbell for Chris Simms" trade. :rofl:

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536254]Who was it here yesterday that said the Redskins would be perennially in the playoffs if the front office just listened to the fans? That was funny. So let's see Colt starts at QB, Mix and McMullen at wideout, two backs with Mason and McCullough, we'll trade down then up back down again to get 8 picks from 3 different teams in the 2nd round, hire a "real GM" of course...[/quote]Don't forget:

1) Give Jason Campbell a long term deal
2) Cut Jason Campbell
3) Fire Stan Hixon
4) Get Zorn more help in terms of assistant coaches

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;536236]The FO is damned if they do or damned if they don't. As Matty said, everyone thinks they can run the team better. All FOs are going to make bad decisions, and all teams are not going to be able to address everything or have quality starters at every single position. Even the mighty NE Patriots just gave up a 4th rounder for a guy (Greg Lewis) that's at best the 3rd best wideout, had mediocre numbers last season, and is pushing 30 yrs. old.

Now I think you're bringing up an issue (giving up picks for Taylor) that has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Yes, giving up a two draft picks (well I think of it as one pick, b/c the other pick is not that valuable) for Jason Taylor was a mistake, big deal, get over it, complaining about it is not going to bring those two picks back. The issue at hand is that people are complaining that our two WRs did not have Pro Bowl stats in their first year. Which is ridiculous to expect this, given that most players need time to develop. My whole point is, if you mention the words "let's build through the draft" don't turn around and rant that Kelly and Thomas need to be cut b/c they didn't produce their first year.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I was strictly referring to the comment that the FO is Damned if they do or damned if they don't. To put it in the simplest terms, the FO did not address all of its needs last season in the draft. Then turned around and gave up picks for absolutely nothing in return. Now, with less picks we cannot fill the holes in the roster that were not addressed in the last draft. Right now our needs are more glaring and we did not pick up enough FA's to compensate for the draft picks that we are lacking either.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]We all want to build through the draft, but at the same time we want to stay competitive within the division. As soon as it was apparent that we were not going to be doing much building due to lack of picks, then the focus should have shifted to FA acquisitions. The quality was there with Hall, Haynesworth, and Dockery. The quantity was not because we still have needs that have not and will not be addressed, even after the draft.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]I am not even talking about the WR's needing to step up or flop or anything else.[B] I was addressing the duality of fans. I just explained why sometimes they bitch about the FO not keeping draft picks; and why they bitch when they don't go hard in Free Agency. [/B]This year we had no picks, therefore we should have hit FA hard...3 players is not hard when you let more than that walk away and you had a full draft worth of needs before hand.[/COLOR][/FONT]

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;536307]Don't forget:

1) Give Jason Campbell a long term deal
2) Cut Jason Campbell
3) Fire Stan Hixon
4) Get Zorn more help in terms of assistant coaches[/quote]
and you forgot that every wide out we have has to be at least 6'5 :)

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;536307]Don't forget:

1) Give Jason Campbell a long term deal
2) Cut Jason Campbell
[B]3) Fire Stan Hixon[/B]
4) Get Zorn more help in terms of assistant coaches[/quote]

Oh man i'm glad someone else understands we need to jettison Hixon...

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

What's the point of having a discussion forum if you can't criticize the team's decision makers from time to time? We all begin with the proposition that we WANT the Redskins to win. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. We'd be at the other one.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

we didnt just get 3 guys in free agency - we got 3 STARTERS, and two of them are pro-bowlers. We also have resigned or tendered several players who were key contributors, if not starters, on our roster last year. You only look at the guys we brought in from outside and Hall - but you ignore that we resigned/tendered Albright, Doughty, Fincher, Montgommery, and Golston. We still may bring back Daniels and Washington. Free agency is not over.

As it stands right now, our 2009 starting roster is already signifcantly upgraded on both sides of the ball. And we still have the draft which includes the 13th overall pick in the draft. If we stay at 13, we've got another instant starter and possibly a pro-bowler. If we trade down, well use the pick on at least two players who have starting potential in 2009. Do we still have needs? yes. Will we still have needs even after the draft? Yes. But this is the same situation with every team in football. We are a better team now than we were last year and weve narrowed the gap between the talent on our team and the 2008 NFC-East champion Giants. I'm very happy about where our team is now in relation to where it was a year ago and anyone who thinks differently is going to have a hard time proving their case.

You say we have no draft picks, but we have 4 and will probably get a 7th round compensatory pick for losing Brunell last year.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;536338]we didnt just get 3 guys in free agency - we got 3 STARTERS, and two of them are pro-bowlers. We also have resigned or tendered several players who were key contributors, if not starters, on our roster last year. You only look at the guys we brought in from outside and Hall - but you ignore that we resigned/tendered Albright, Doughty, Fincher, Montgommery, and Golston. We still may bring back Daniels and Washington. Free agency is not over.

As it stands right now, our 2009 starting roster is already signifcantly upgraded on both sides of the ball. And we still have the draft which includes the 13th overall pick in the draft. If we stay at 13, we've got another instant starter and possibly a pro-bowler. If we trade down, well use the pick on at least two players who have starting potential in 2009. Do we still have needs? yes. Will we still have needs even after the draft? Yes. But this is the same situation with every team in football. We are a better team now than we were last year and weve narrowed the gap between the talent on our team and the 2008 NFC-East champion Giants. I'm very happy about where our team is now in relation to where it was a year ago and anyone who thinks differently is going to have a hard time proving their case.

[B]You say we have no draft picks, but we have 4 and will probably get a 7th round compensatory pick for losing Brunell last year[/B].[/quote]I doubt that. We didn't draft him.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

Thanks to the same technicality that we exploited to spread MB's cap hit over 6 years when restructuring his deal, it also means his departure from Washington was technically a "release" and therefore he's not part of the compensatory picks formula.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=70Chip;536321]What's the point of having a discussion forum if you can't criticize the team's decision makers from time to time? We all begin with the proposition that we WANT the Redskins to win. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. We'd be at the other one.[/quote]

I don't think any of us are saying that you shouldn't criticize the FO. The past couple of threads are criticizing fans that on the one hand want to "build through the draft" and on the other hand want the wideout rookies. Or make the point that if we only have 4 draft picks, then the team needed to use free agency to meet its needs.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;536349]Thanks to the same technicality that we exploited to spread MB's cap hit over 6 years when restructuring his deal, it also means his departure from Washington was technically a "release" and therefore he's not part of the compensatory picks formula.[/quote]

my bad. I read an article speculating (with detailed analysis) which teams would receive comp picks and in which rounds. i took it at face value. i dont think a team has to draft a player to receive a comp pick, but its my understanding the player has to be a UFA because his contract expired, but if we technically "released" him, then obviously we wouldnt get anything.

personally, i dont think 7th round picks hold much value anyways. chances are, the player we would take in the 7th round would be a FA anyways. Yeah, i know we found Horton in the 7th last year, but there were only 3 picks in the draft after we selected him, if i remember, and i doubt any of those 3 teams were hoping to pounce on Horton. If we hadnt drafted him, he very likely would have been a FA and we could have signed him anyways.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;536355]I don't think any of us are saying that you shouldn't criticize the FO. The past couple of threads are criticizing fans that on the one hand want to "build through the draft" and on the other hand want the wideout rookies. Or make the point that if we only have 4 draft picks, then the team needed to use free agency to meet its needs.[/quote]

right, but the argument that we didnt use free agency is stupid. Free agency isnt even two weeks old yet and so far weve signed:

Albert Hayneworth - Pro-bowl starter. Best DT in the league.
DeAngelo Hall - Pro-bowl Starter. Playmaker, interception machine.
Derrick Dockery - Starter
Ethan Albright - ST Starter
Anthony Montgommery - Starting quality DT
Kedric Golston - Starting qualtity DT
Alfred Fincher - Solid backup LB and great special teamer.

4 of those players will start in 2009. The other 3 will play extensively. I dont see how anyone can argue we havent used free agency to meet our needs. We've been one of the most aggressive teams out there.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;536356]personally, i dont think 7th round picks hold much value anyways. chances are, the player we would take in the 7th round would be a FA anyways. Yeah, i know we found Horton in the 7th last year, but there were only 3 picks in the draft after we selected him, if i remember, and i doubt any of those 3 teams were hoping to pounce on Horton. If we hadnt drafted him, he very likely would have been a FA and we could have signed him anyways.[/quote]Agreed. Congrats on post # 500.

Re: How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;536349]Thanks to the same technicality that we exploited to spread MB's cap hit over 6 years when restructuring his deal, it also means his departure from Washington was technically a "release" and therefore he's not part of the compensatory picks formula.[/quote]

You 100% sure on that?