Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

And you have the gall to call yourself "MonkFan4Life!" Art Monk exemplified what the Redskins stood for, perhaps more than any other player. To compare him, his era, his teammates, with the collection assembled at Redskin Park today is a travesty of being a fan. And please tell me, what great thing happened in 2005?

Thirty-eight years ought to be enough credentials to claim to be a long-time fan. Snyder and his "team" disrespect the fans. All they care about is taking our money, and they laugh at our loyalty. You're a silly fool to be taken in by this.

Pittsburgh is a long way away, and I may not have much fun with the towels. But at least the Rooneys care about their fans and treat their players and coaches with respect.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MrSpectre;600623]And you have the gall to call yourself "MonkFan4Life!" Art Monk exemplified what the Redskins stood for, perhaps more than any other player. To compare him, his era, his teammates, with the collection assembled at Redskin Park today is a travesty of being a fan. And please tell me, what great thing happened in 2005?

Thirty-eight years ought to be enough credentials to claim to be a long-time fan. Snyder and his "team" disrespect the fans. All they care about is taking our money, and they laugh at our loyalty. You're a silly fool to be taken in by this.

Pittsburgh is a long way away, and I may not have much fun with the towels. But at least the Rooneys care about their fans and treat their players and coaches with respect.[/quote]

You should check out steelernation.com. Good people over there. I've posted there in the past

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Worst Head Coaching Hires since 1984. Skins have 2 on the list: Spurrier and ZORN

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/gallery/featured/GAL1160805/1/12/index.htm]National Football League Football Sports Professional Football American Football Conference - SI Vault[/url]

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=44Deezel;600626]Worst Head Coaching Hires since 1984. Skins have 2 on the list: Spurrier and ZORN

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/gallery/featured/GAL1160805/1/12/index.htm"]National Football League Football Sports Professional Football American Football Conference - SI Vault[/URL][/quote]Under Zorn it says...maybe

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=44Deezel;600626]Worst Head Coaching Hires since 1984. Skins have 2 on the list: Spurrier and ZORN

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/gallery/featured/GAL1160805/1/12/index.htm]National Football League Football Sports Professional Football American Football Conference - SI Vault[/url][/quote]

Notice what the caption says about Spurrier

No way. Not even close. [B]Spurrier turned out to be a horrible NFL coach, but the hire itself was exciting and had every chance to work. NFL teams were falling over each other to hire Spurrier as a head coach.[/B] This isn't even in the same ballpark as the Mangini hire.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MrSpectre;600446] Many of us remember Jack Kent Cooke, who may not have been one of nature's noblemen as a human being, but who, in retrospect, was a superb owner. He hired professionals and gave them time to get the job done. He demanded long-term competence but never interfered short-term.

I had been a Redskins fan since 1971, but, as of last Sunday night, I've checked out until Snyder sells the team. As a protest, I'll be rooting for the Steelers until that happens. Why the Steelers? Simple. They exemplify the kind of ownership and management needed in Washington.[/quote]I've been a fan since 1972. We've been through: 93-95 and you stayed a fan, that wasn't Snyder's fault. We survived the "bodybag game" and you didn't check out. My parents were fans during the 50s & 60s and they remained fans until they passed.

You can dislike Snyder, but he's doing what every other owner in the NFL needs to do, generate revenue. The Steelers have a brand new stadium and they've seen ticket, parking and concession hikes too. We're 9th in the league in ticket pricing with no raise this year.

[URL="http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2009/09/07/daily51.html"]Redskins don’t raise ticket prices - Washington Business Journal:[/URL]

BTW we made the playoffs 3 of the 10 years Snyder's owned the Skins. JKC also didn't have a salary cap to deal with.

A shame you're checking out, but enjoy the Steelers. Also, don't try to hop back on the Skins bandwagon when they turn things around. I'll bet Snyder ain't selling the team until he dies and he'll probably pass it to his kids.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

SlinginSammy,

You said;
[B][I]49ers
Cerrato was with the San Francisco 49ers for nine seasons. He joined San Francisco in 1991 as the Director of College Scouting, helping to draft players including Ted Washington, Ricky Watters, Dana Stubblefield and Bryant Young. In 1994, he was part of the Super Bowl XXIX Championship team. In 1995, Cerrato was promoted to Director of Player Personnel, overseeing all college scouting and draft activities as well as pro scouting of NFL players and opponents.

Cerrato has only been formally in charge since the 2008 off-season. Hardly enough time to be judged a "failure".[/I][/B]

This is what I find funny, people think that since Cerrato came from the 49ers and they won a SB under his reign we must be great, including Snyder. People sometimes don't stop to actually digest the material or facts but who cares cause it sounds so good that we pulled him from the SB 49ers right?

Why would any team fire....."FIRE" their GM if he got them to the SB and did such great things for the team? They wouldn't. Cerrato inherrited a team that was put together by another GM. The year he became GM the team went to the SB (with the players the previous GM put together). Then although Cerrato supposedly drafted good players, the team started becoming mediocre and the team fired him(Cerrato). In other words under Cerrato's helm the team started it's downward spiral, the owner recognized this and fired his lame arse.

I can't speak for his college days but I would imagine most colleges have scoutes who go out to the high schools and evaluate the talent. Then they would report to him. I presume he had to finalize the college scholarships. I'm not trying to take anything away from what he might have done at the college level cause he might be a guru there like Spurrier but certainly he's not a guru at the NFL level. He has yet to prove he's GM material cause the teams he has been apart of started crapping out after he arrived to them.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SBXVII;600639]This is what I find funny, people think that since Cerrato came from the 49ers and they won a SB under his reign we must be great, including Snyder. People sometimes don't stop to actually digest the material or facts but who cares cause it sounds so good that we pulled him from the SB 49ers right?

Why would any team fire....."FIRE" their GM if he got them to the SB and did such great things for the team? They wouldn't. Cerrato inherrited a team that was put together by another GM. The year he became GM the team went to the SB (with the players the previous GM put together). Then although Cerrato supposedly drafted good players, the team started becoming mediocre and the team fired him(Cerrato). In other words under Cerrato's helm the team started it's downward spiral, the owner recognized this and fired his lame arse.

I can't speak for his college days but I would imagine most colleges have scoutes who go out to the high schools and evaluate the talent. Then they would report to him. I presume he had to finalize the college scholarships. I'm not trying to take anything away from what he might have done at the college level cause he might be a guru there like Spurrier but certainly he's not a guru at the NFL level. He has yet to prove he's GM material cause the teams he has been apart of started crapping out after he arrived to them.[/quote]This is what I find funny, people make assumptions about what other people think, and then they don't stop to check their facts or to actually digest the material. But who cares cause it sounds so good to call Vinny a dumbass and blame everything on him right?

Pretty good article on Vinny.
[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/03/AR2008090303970_5.html?sid=ST2008090304291"]Meet the New Boss - washingtonpost.com[/URL]

As I linked above, he arrived in SF in 1991, SF won the SB in 1994, three years later with Ted Washington, Ricky Watters, Merton Hanks, Dana Stubblefield, Bryant Young, William Floyd, Lee Woodall and Doug Brien, all Cerrato draftees, and all making significant contributions to the team.

Your "facts" above about Vinny's performance are completely off-base and flat-out wrong. Cerrato wasn't fired because he was doing a poor job. It was because of Bill Walsh's pending return. After the SB year through 1998, the 49ers never went worse than 11-5, hardly "mediocre" or in a "downward spiral".
[URL="http://quicktime.cnnsi.com/football/nfl/news/1999/01/12/49ers_cerrato/"]CNN/SI - NFL Football - Report: 49ers fire personnel director Cerrato - Tuesday January 12, 1999 11:20 AM[/URL]

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Once again why anyone takes the time to defend the Skins' FO or the its decision-makers is absolutely, positively beyond me. It's akin to Will Ferrell shouting "I drive a Dodge Stratus" on SNL...except there's exactly zero humor wrt the franchise.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;600276]Now what i don't understand is how can people ask for Danny to get out of the spotlight but then complain when he does exactly that ? The whole shaking of the hands thing is kinda blow but I mean if you want the guy to stay in the shadows why ask for him to come out.[/quote]
If you're going to run the team, make yourself accessible

It's fine to stay in the shadows if you're just signing checks

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600632]Notice what the caption says about Spurrier

No way. Not even close. [B]Spurrier turned out to be a horrible NFL coach, but the hire itself was exciting and had every chance to work. NFL teams were falling over each other to hire Spurrier as a head coach.[/B] This isn't even in the same ballpark as the Mangini hire.[/quote]I love Posnanski.

The Mangini hire was completely indefensible.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SBXVII;600639][B]I can't speak for his college days but I would imagine most colleges have scoutes who go out to the high schools and evaluate the talent. [/B]Then they would report to him. I presume he had to finalize the college scholarships.[/quote]

What exactly do you think NFL scouts do?

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=The Goat;600648]Once again why anyone takes the time to defend the Skins' FO or the its decision-makers is absolutely, positively beyond me. It's akin to Will Ferrell shouting "I drive a Dodge Stratus" on SNL...except there's exactly zero humor wrt the franchise.[/quote]

To me, the problem with the Redskins is not the acquisition of talent. Vinny has done a reasonable job of putting capable players on the field.

The problem is that, once they are on the roster, players regularly underperform. I do not think that that is a problem which arises from Vinny. That is a problem with the team culture.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Lotus;600686]To me, the problem with the Redskins is not the acquisition of talent. Vinny has done a reasonable job of putting capable players on the field.

The problem is that, once they are on the roster, players regularly underperform. I do not think that that is a problem which arises from Vinny. That is a problem with the team culture.[/quote]

You sound like Michael Wilbon, which is a compliment btw. Wilbon et al (including Sally) have often said the "culture" of the organization is dysfunctional. That's something that becomes really tough for someone on the outside to debate, but there have been plenty of signs to indicate that's true.

Case in point, let's look back at Zorn's hiring; it was reported that Snyder had said GW made disparaging remarks about Gibbs, that Spagnola said he was offered the job but the redskins denied the offer, and that Fassell was led to believe he might get the job. Add to that, Zorn was already hired as O coordinator & a Blache was on board as d coordinator.

Even if all of the above isn't true, how can an organization have so much drama out in the air over hiring a head coach? Is it true that not many coaches are interested in the job, and Zorn was about the only guy that would take it?

Reports such as these by reputable journalists (Adam Schefler (sp?)) lead me to believe that there is a negative work culture in this organization. Joe Gibbs' gift was to shield his players from it & get them to focus on football. I don't know if Zorn has that ability.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

I will blame it on anything but the rain. The rain did NOTHING to me. NOOOOOOOOOOOOTHING!

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=The Goat;600648]Once again why anyone takes the time to defend the Skins' FO or the its decision-makers is absolutely, positively beyond me. It's akin to Will Ferrell shouting "I drive a Dodge Stratus" on SNL...except there's exactly zero humor wrt the franchise.[/quote]I don't know, I guess it's those pesky facts that need to be brought to light every once in a while.

But for the record, I would like to see a true GM (I've mentioned Holmgren).

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

I second Holmgren as GM, but would he want to work with Shanahan? Im actually a little bit pessimistic with a small side of optimism knowing that Shanahan might really be the future HC for this franchise, I just hope he can draft another Elway..........

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MrSpectre;600787]S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. [B]Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS[/B]![/quote]

:doh:

:vomit:

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MrSpectre;600787]Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS![/quote]Good luck with that. Remember, don't be a fan of the Skins again when things turn around under Snyder.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Hey Spectre Stubby wasn't a Danny signing. Like I said before, why have a Redskins Jersey as your avatar ? Change that up champ, can't have any imposters here.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MrSpectre;600787]S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. [B]Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS![/B][/quote]

Fine, Mr. Bandwagon. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MrSpectre;600787]S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS![/quote]

I'm sorry and I REALLY tried to be objective when reading that, but seriously, that just sounds absolutely stupid. So basically by your logic, you're rooting for the Steeler's management? Who gives a crap about the players or the coaches, it's the owner that I root for? Not only that, why not the Patriots? Why not any other team that looks like it "has" a plan? Is it because the Steelers won the Super Bowl last year?

Honestly, if you say that the ultimate goal of the NFL is the win the Super Bowl, then you might say the Steelers along with a lot of other teams over that span have been mired in mediocrity playoff-wise. The Patriots are really the only team who seem to fit your "bill". It's easy to be like, "Awesome! We won again." But in my opinion it would be ALMOST as maddening to be a fan of the Chargers or the Colts. While both are consistently good, they both don't do well in the playoffs (with the exception of the Colts Super Bowl year).

Your argument just sounds ridiculous. It's like you just want to be a front-runner like every other half-hearted Skins fan.

I might not be speaking for the entire fan base, but believe me when I say that we will NOT miss you at all.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

I wonder why you even signed up for this site just to tell us you are no longer a Redskins fan. IDK, it just seems very confusing to me.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MrSpectre;600787]S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS![/quote]

Dude, you wasted all of that space to say go Steelers?

FAIL

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Stubblefield, amazingly enough, wasn't a Snyder/Cerrato decision either.

Oh, and puck Fittsburgh ...

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=freddyg12;600707]You sound like Michael Wilbon, which is a compliment btw. Wilbon et al (including Sally) have often said the "culture" of the organization is dysfunctional. That's something that becomes really tough for someone on the outside to debate, but there have been plenty of signs to indicate that's true.

Case in point, let's look back at Zorn's hiring; it was reported that Snyder had said GW made disparaging remarks about Gibbs, that Spagnola said he was offered the job but the redskins denied the offer, and that Fassell was led to believe he might get the job. Add to that, Zorn was already hired as O coordinator & a Blache was on board as d coordinator.

Even if all of the above isn't true, how can an organization have so much drama out in the air over hiring a head coach? Is it true that not many coaches are interested in the job, and Zorn was about the only guy that would take it?

Reports such as these by reputable journalists (Adam Schefler (sp?)) lead me to believe that there is a negative work culture in this organization. Joe Gibbs' gift was to shield his players from it & get them to focus on football. I don't know if Zorn has that ability.[/quote]


I agree it is the Culture. Starting with DS and even us fans. Other fans are critical of their QBs. But we take it to the extreme. I dont think we will ever see a QB blossom here. It would have to be perfect circumstances for a rookie QB to reach his potential here. He would have no learning curve. HE would have to come right in and play like a pro bowler. We never have been in rebuilding mode. Have we? That's the problem with our team and is very much part of the Skins "current culture". We have unrealistic expectations every year and when we get our feelings hurt we take it out on certain players instead of realizing no matter how many acquisitions we make we actually should have been in rebuilding mode but we were in denial. -- We were actually rebuidling but sold a dream along with it. Most teams bite the bullet and start over from scratch but the Fo can't swallow its pride so our climb back to respectability takes even longer than most teams. We are not living in reality. When we boo when we win. That's a perfect example. But let some people tell it. JC is the anti-christ. lol

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600679]What exactly do you think NFL scouts do?[/quote]

Honestly I can't figure out what ours does to get paid for?

but I thought the blogger that I responded to was refering to how Cerrato has done so many great things in his college days and in the NFL with the 49ers. I was arguing that I was not sure what his roll was at the college level perhaps the same job he's doing now but in the NFL he record is not good.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Lotus;600686]To me, the problem with the Redskins is not the acquisition of talent. Vinny has done a reasonable job of putting capable players on the field.

The problem is that, once they are on the roster, players regularly underperform. I do not think that that is a problem which arises from Vinny. That is a problem with the team culture.[/quote]

How much of the underperformance is that the HC is not utilizing his talent the best way he can? How much is it that the coach's will not alter their scheme to fit the players we have? I can't imagine we have a whole team of crappy or underperformers. Which to me points the finger back at the coaching staff for not actually putting the players in the best possible situation to win.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

I don't think that JC is the anti-christ, that's a bit of a stretch but I don't think that he is a franchise QB either.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;600857]I don't think that JC is the anti-christ, that's a bit of a stretch but I don't think that he is a franchise QB either.[/quote]

There are QBs that aren't "franchise QBs" but they still win Superbowls. Trent Dilfer, Gannon, etc. And there are franchise QB's that never win a Superbowl.

It takes a team to win the superbowl. If everyone plays well and as a solid team. then that's when we will succed. can have the best Qb in the world. If we dont have the right coaching system and players and FO to set him up to succeed he will fail also. That's what people fail to realize.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;600858]There are QBs that aren't "franchise QBs" but they still win Superbowls. Trent Dilfer, Gannon, etc. And there are franchise QB's that never win a Superbowl.

It takes a team to win the superbowl. If everyone plays well and as a solid team. then that's when we will succed. can have the best Qb in the world. If we dont have the right coaching system and players and FO to set him up to succeed he will fail also. That's what people fail to realize.[/quote]

I agree, Gibbs won 2 of his 3 super bowls w/guys that simply fit his system (Theisman in his best years, was a legit pro-bowler). I know that was some time ago, but at present I would argue that over half of the teams in the nfl have starting qb's that have or are playing at pro bowl levels. Any of those guys can win a super bowl if they are on a pretty good, yet not even great, team. I don't know if I'd say JC is better than half the starters in the nfl, but I think he can lead this team all the way if the O line is rebuilt w/talent & youth & the d plays like it used to under GW.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Of course it's "the culture."

Debating how Holmgren might work with Shanahan, or Cowher, or any other proven coach is beside the point as long as Snyder reserves the right to make or veto personnel decisions. I suspect that none of these guys will work for Snyder for just that reason. You also can bet that, if any such proven football coach accepts an offer in Washington, he will have sold his soul for big money.

Danny must go, or the disease will just keep festering.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;600835]I'm sorry and I REALLY tried to be objective when reading that, but seriously, that just sounds absolutely stupid. So basically by your logic, you're rooting for the Steeler's management? Who gives a crap about the players or the coaches, it's the owner that I root for? Not only that, why not the Patriots? Why not any other team that looks like it "has" a plan? Is it because the Steelers won the Super Bowl last year?

Honestly, if you say that the ultimate goal of the NFL is the win the Super Bowl, then you might say the Steelers along with a lot of other teams over that span have been mired in mediocrity playoff-wise. The Patriots are really the only team who seem to fit your "bill". It's easy to be like, "Awesome! We won again." But in my opinion it would be ALMOST as maddening to be a fan of the Chargers or the Colts. While both are consistently good, they both don't do well in the playoffs (with the exception of the Colts Super Bowl year).

Your argument just sounds ridiculous. It's like you just want to be a front-runner like every other half-hearted Skins fan.

I might not be speaking for the entire fan base, but believe me when I say that we will NOT miss you at all.[/quote]

No, Malcolm, I'm not rooting for the Steelers' management. Let me try again.

The Steelers have had three coaches over the last thirty-eight years. They've had a consistent policy of building through the draft with a concentration on offensive and defensive lines, then skill offensive players, linebackers, and defensive backs. They usually have winning seasons. When they don't, they don't panic and lunge after some savior free agent, wasting multiple draft picks in the process. Over time, that builds team cohesiveness, or, if you like, a positive culture. Management, players, and fans are on the same page, working together. They aren't at the mercy of a single megalomaniac and his pet toady.

To call for this kind of management is not being a "front-runner." As I said, I support the Nationals. But too many Redskins' fans seem to be the kind of idiots who, finding themselves in a deep hole, just keep digging.

Sorry if any of the words were too long for you.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Beemnseven;600847]Stubblefield, amazingly enough, wasn't a Snyder/Cerrato decision either.

Oh, and puck Fittsburgh ...[/quote]

Basically after the '91 season the team has been stuck in mediocrity... there were plenty of poor decisions made before Danny got here.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MrSpectre;600889]To call for this kind of management is not being a "front-runner." As I said, I support the Nationals. But too many Redskins' fans seem to be the kind of idiots who, finding themselves in a deep hole, just keep digging.

Sorry if any of the words were too long for you.[/quote]This is a Skins board, you're a Steeler fan. Why are you posting here? I think SS said it was steelernation.com. Have at it. There's too many idiot fans here for a smart guy like you anyway.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MrSpectre;600889]No, Malcolm, I'm not rooting for the Steelers' management. Let me try again.

The Steelers have had three coaches over the last thirty-eight years. They've had a consistent policy of building through the draft with a concentration on offensive and defensive lines, then skill offensive players, linebackers, and defensive backs. They usually have winning seasons. When they don't, they don't panic and lunge after some savior free agent, wasting multiple draft picks in the process. Over time, that builds team cohesiveness, or, if you like, a positive culture. Management, players, and fans are on the same page, working together. They aren't at the mercy of a single megalomaniac and his pet toady.

To call for this kind of management is not being a "front-runner." As I said, I support the Nationals. But too many Redskins' fans seem to be the kind of idiots who, finding themselves in a deep hole, just keep digging.

Sorry if any of the words were too long for you.[/quote]

If you were previously a fan, then there is really no excuse. Maybe if you just started liking football and get a chub over well-run organizations, I MIGHT see some validity.

I'm always going to be a fan of the team first. Sure, the owner is part of the team, but there are plenty of other people that I truly root for. I'm not a Snyder fan myself, but because he doesn't run the team the way I like, I'm not going to change my loyalty.

Sounds like a really lame excuse to change.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Mattyk72;600890]Basically after the '91 season the team has been stuck in mediocrity... there were plenty of poor decisions made before Danny got here.[/quote]

true, and the r. petibon year (93-4) was maybe the worst season in modern franchise history.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=freddyg12;600707]You sound like Michael Wilbon, which is a compliment btw. Wilbon et al (including Sally) have often said the "culture" of the organization is dysfunctional. That's something that becomes really tough for someone on the outside to debate, but there have been plenty of signs to indicate that's true.[/quote]

Only speaking from my personal experience, there has been since the days of John Kent Cooke (and I don't really know the Gibbs 2.0 years too well) a lack of harmony within the organization. I would say it was ultra competitive in there and no one really had much fun, and the trust levels could be alarmingly low.

The culture needs to be feng shui'd

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

I think Dan Snyder has a number of redeeming qualities. Snyder can be quite generous, very good to players who are in his good graces, and almost eager to open up his wallet to give our team quality players. Moreover, I think he's gets unfairly blamed for a lot of our on-field struggles.

However, let's face it, Snyder is not a "football guru" and he should not routinely and unilaterally determine which players we target in the draft and in the offseason. That's why it's so troubling to hear from George Michael that Snyder is doing just that. Apparently, he's learned a lot over the past 10 years, but he hasn't learned enough to realize to leave those kinds of decisions to the head coach and Vinny Cerrato.