Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;712786]I think the Tea Party has a great basic premise, smaller federal gov't, less spending. But it's candidates have to become more politcally saavy if they're going to win elections in battleground areas. They've got to be smarter in responses to questions, learn how to track to the center for general elections, and not get pigeon-holed by strict ideology.

The Tea Party is making a lot of enemies on the left so they're definitely a threat. We'll just have to see how Nov. plays out to determine their real impact.[/quote]

The real enemies of the Tea Party are the Republicans.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;712789]The real enemies of the Tea Party are the Republicans.[/quote]Agreed. RINOs and the Republican establishment are definitely no friend to the Tea Party either.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

If the standard for being a threat is liberals mocking you then color me yellow. The real enemies of the Tea Party is their uncontrollable stupidity. Lots of nice sounding "ideas" but no practical solution.


Enjoy your weekend fellas.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=saden1;712805]If the standard for being a threat is liberals mocking you color me yellow. The real enemies of the Tea Party is their uncontrollable stupidity. Lots of nice sounding "ideas" no practical solution.


Enjoy your weekends fellas.[/quote]

Oh yes, and those liberal ideas like NAFTA have done such wonders for our economy. Thanks liberal pukes.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;712806]Oh yes, and those liberal ideas like NAFTA have done such wonders for our economy. Thanks liberal pukes.[/quote]

Let's [URL="https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00395"]see[/URL]...a total of 61 senators voted for it of which 34 were Republicans and 27 were Democrats. a total of 38 senators voted against it of which 28 were Democrats and 10 were Republicans. Sadly there were no tea baggers in the senate in 1993 but I am curious how they would have voted.

Don't you just love Democracy?

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[quote=saden1;712811]Let's [URL="https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00395"]see[/URL]...a total of 61 senators voted for it of which 34 were Republicans and 27 were Democrats. a total of 38 senators voted against it of which 28 were Democrats and 10 were Republicans. Sadly there were no tea baggers in the senate in 1993 but I am curious how they would have voted.

Don't you just love Democracy?[/quote]

Why is it you keep bringing you up Republicans and Jorge Bush? I know it's standard party hack protocol for dingus' like you, but I would've thought that you'd have got it by now?

Ross Perot rans as an independent.

Hey DMEK that giant sucking sound was your union job. Vote Democrat. HA HA HA

Democracy is nothing more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. That's probably why you like it. You've such a high opinion of yourself. You think you're one of the wolves. Guess again sheeple boy!

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;712815]W[B]hy is it you keep bringing you up Republicans and Jorge Bush[/B]? I know it's standard party hack protocol for dingus' like you, but I would've thought that you'd have got it by now?

Ross Perot rans as an independent.

Hey DMEK that giant sucking sound was your union job. Vote Democrat. HA HA HA

Democracy is nothing more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. That's probably why you like it. You've such a high opinion of yourself. You think you're one of the wolves. Guess again sheeple boy![/quote]


For the same mofo'ing reason you brought up the mofo'ing Dems. You like to blame the Dems, I like to poke you in the eye. I kinda do have high opinion of myself but only because I am able to have a very low opinion of you. Your worthlessness increases my worthiness which in turn increases my super powers.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;712815]Why is it you keep bringing you up Republicans and Jorge Bush? I know it's standard party hack protocol for dingus' like you, but I would've thought that you'd have got it by now?

Ross Perot rans as an independent.

[B]Hey DMEK that giant sucking sound was your union job. Vote Democrat. HA HA HA[/B]

Democracy is nothing more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. That's probably why you like it. You've such a high opinion of yourself. You think you're one of the wolves. Guess again sheeple boy![/quote]
you think that dumb ass Reagan knew what he was doing? he busted the air traffic controllers, signifying the collapse of the power that unions once held. that, tied with NAFTA really took it to the union jobs in this country. i hate that thing, regardless of party

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;712815]Why is it you keep bringing you up Republicans and Jorge Bush? [/quote]

I think because you brought up the passing of NAFTA..

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;712786]I think the Tea Party has a great basic premise, smaller federal gov't, less spending. But it's candidates have to become more politcally saavy if they're going to win elections in battleground areas. They've got to be smarter in responses to questions, learn how to track to the center for general elections, and not get pigeon-holed by strict ideology.

The Tea Party is making a lot of enemies on the left so they're definitely a threat. We'll just have to see how Nov. plays out to determine their real impact.[/quote]

No one's arguing with the basic premise of the Tea Party. In fact, I'll gurantee you that you'll find no less than half dozen Dems, in both houses, that agree with these exact same principles. I can name at least 6 off the top of my head. But let's not get the argument twisted here. How do you cut spending while the economy is spiraling into a deep recession, small business struggling, and 8 million unemployed? Fair mind economists say you have to stimulate the economy to spur growth. How can we reduce the size of government when the military complex and all of it's affiliates are expanding because the United States is fighting two wars [I]and[/I] the ever elusvive war on terror? Hard ain't it?

See this is why the Tea Party will never take off in my opinion. These are the same old Reagan year arguments, problem is this is 2010 and the world is much more complex. They say cut this and cut that, but EXACTLY what are their policy prescriptions? I've said this before but the problem isn't big government v small governement. The real problem here is: a) our leaders lack political courage to make tough decisions and b) it's difficult to get a working coalition to solve these difficult problems due to a toxic political environment in Washington.

What, the Tea Party will suddenly get a squeaky clean and a born gain Congress to work with? The minute a credible, sober minded Tea Party candidate emerges, and none have yet, he or she will be handed the same old broken system and be asked to change it from the inside out.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=dmek25;712823]you think that dumb ass Reagan knew what he was doing? he busted the air traffic controllers, signifying the collapse of the power that unions once held. that, tied with NAFTA really took it to the union jobs in this country. i hate that thing, regardless of party[/quote]

Hate to burst your bubble buddy but the illegal aliens that Reagan gave amnesty to burst the Union's power, which was waining to begin with. Not to mention all of the counter-productive contracts with the Mafia.

Oh, the Carpenters and Joiners on the West Coast are full of illegals now. So their pensions are going to people who stole our birth-right.

I think Reagan fully knew what he was doing. He probably had a whole bunch of people sitting around screaming about their flights. Unions don't have a right to hold the public hostage because they want more money. Besides, a closed shop is just an excuse to send a job to China. A good trade unionist doesn't need one.

I find it hard to believe that you'd be against guns, when the history of the labor movement is full of incidents where state militias, private contractors, police, scabs, and pinkerton men beat, shot, and stabbed Union men, women, and children at the behest of the gang banksters. The ones that didn't get killed where the ones who organized and fought back, WITH FIREARMS!

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=12thMan;712829]How do you cut spending while the economy is spiraling into a deep recession, small business struggling, and 8 million unemployed? Fair mind economists say you have to stimulate the economy to spur growth. How can we reduce the size of government when the military complex and all of it's affiliates are expanding because the United States is fighting two wars [I]and[/I] the ever elusvive war on terror? Hard ain't it?[/quote]I've stated my ideas before, but as you mention below, they'll never happen.

[quote]The real problem here is: a) our leaders lack political courage to make tough decisions and b) it's difficult to get a working coalition to solve these difficult problems due to a toxic political environment in Washington. [/quote]Agree 100%. I don't know if term limits fix this, but it's certainly a start.

[quote]What, the Tea Party will suddenly get a squeaky clean and a born gain Congress to work with? The minute a credible, sober minded Tea Party candidate emerges, and none have yet, he or she will be handed the same old broken system and be asked to change it from the inside out.[/quote]The middle of the road Tea Party candidates also get stomped out by the legacy Repub machine (just happened in our primary in VB).

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;712868]I've stated my ideas before, but as you mention below, they'll never happen.

Agree 100%. I don't know if term limits fix this, but it's certainly a start.

The middle of the road Tea Party candidates also get stomped out by the legacy Repub machine (just happened in our primary in VB).[/quote]

The only problem with term limits is that you eventually cede control and influence to the lobbyist with 20 years of experience. Imagine a freshman Senator standing toe-to-toe with one of these guys who's been working the Hill for two decades. No chance he'll get the support he needs. Our most respected Senators are our most seasoned ones, not the other way around.

Secondly, if we go term limites you'll never become an expert at anything. Imagine some of the Senators that have chaired and served on the intelligence committee or anything related to foreign policy. It's takes many years to accumlate the knowledge and depth to shape policy and understand the world abroad. Again, some young buck just coming into congress or the senate just can't do it if we institute term limits.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=12thMan;712872]The only problem with term limits is that you eventually cede control and influence to the lobbyist with 20 years of experience. Imagine a freshman Senator standing toe-to-toe with one of these guys who's been working the Hill for two decades. No chance he'll get the support he needs. Our most respected Senators are our most seasoned ones, not the other way around.[/quote]If term limits are in place, it decreases the power of lobbyists. Assuming a constant flow of funding to the lobbyists, with more turn-over, more ground to cover.

[quote]Secondly, if we go term limites you'll never become an expert at anything. Imagine some of the Senators that have chaired and served on the intelligence committee or anything related to foreign policy. It's takes many years to accumlate the knowledge and depth to shape policy and understand the world abroad. Again, some young buck just coming into congress or the senate just can't do it if we institute term limits.[/quote]I'm talking something along the lines of what Newt proposed in 1994, 12 years for each house. You'll still have enough experience on the various committees to bridge any gaps as newbs get up to speed.

Pretty balanced article from Time on both sides of the argument (go figure, LOL).

[url=http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1967192,00.html]Congress Term Limits: No Magic Fix for Washington's Woes - TIME[/url]

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[quote=12thMan;712829]No one's arguing with the basic premise of the Tea Party. In fact, I'll gurantee you that you'll find no less than half dozen Dems, in both houses, that agree with these exact same principles. I can name at least 6 off the top of my head. But let's not get the argument twisted here. How do you cut spending while the economy is spiraling into a deep recession, small business struggling, and 8 million unemployed? Fair mind economists say you have to stimulate the economy to spur growth. How can we reduce the size of government when the military complex and all of it's affiliates are expanding because the United States is fighting two wars [I]and[/I] the ever elusvive war on terror? Hard ain't it?

See this is why the Tea Party will never take off in my opinion. These are the same old Reagan year arguments, problem is this is 2010 and the world is much more complex. They say cut this and cut that, but EXACTLY what are their policy prescriptions? I've said this before but the problem isn't big government v small governement. The real problem here is: a) our leaders lack political courage to make tough decisions and b) it's difficult to get a working coalition to solve these difficult problems due to a toxic political environment in Washington.

What, the Tea Party will suddenly get a squeaky clean and a born gain Congress to work with? The minute a credible, sober minded Tea Party candidate emerges, and none have yet, he or she will be handed the same old broken system and be asked to change it from the inside out.[/quote]

Help me out here...what do you call this? Running out the clock? Didn't they oppose the debt commission if raising taxes in any form is on the table?

[YT]BJhgmDCJdM4[/YT]

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

that's what sucks with politics. those clowns talked for 3 straight minutes, and didnt say anything

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[url=http://community.adn.com/adn/node/152458]Alaska Politics Blog : Tea Party group supporting Joe Miller under fire for blog comments (Updated) | adn.com[/url]

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=dmek25;713083]that's what sucks with politics. those clowns talked for 3 straight minutes, and didnt say anything[/quote]Air America did the same thing 24x7 :silly:

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

Interesting story considering the NAACP's charges of racism against the Tea Party.

[url=http://wcbstv.com/topstories/tea.party.naacp.2.1812710.html]SHOCK: Racism At NAACP Event? - wcbstv.com[/url]

Also, rumors flying that the Obama administration may have pushed hard for Sherrod's swift resignation given their uneasiness surrounding the whole Van Jones and Black Panther stories.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

BOISE, Idaho — Three times since 2000, Republican Rod Beck failed in his bid to rejoin the state Senate, defeated by primary election rivals he insists didn't support party ideals. So Beck opted to change Idaho's GOP from within.
At the state Republican convention last month, he got his big chance.
Joined by tea party members, Ron Paul disciples and old-guard conservatives, Beck strode into the three-day confab in Idaho Falls amid a swelling national tide of frustration with Washington, D.C., magnified by Idaho's already rightist tilt. When it was over, a majority of the 500 delegates had transformed their platform with a spasm of anti-fed outrage — and anger at Republicans who Beck thinks have strayed from the fold.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=GMScud;713229][B]Interesting story considering the NAACP's charges of racism against the Tea Party.[/B]

[URL="http://wcbstv.com/topstories/tea.party.naacp.2.1812710.html"]SHOCK: Racism At NAACP Event? - wcbstv.com[/URL]

Also, rumors flying that the Obama administration may have pushed hard for Sherrod's swift resignation given their uneasiness surrounding the whole Van Jones and Black Panther stories.[/quote]

You know just as well as most other people, it's just gonna be political race wars no matter what. There's gonna be racists in the Tea Party just as much as there are racists in the NAACP.

But anyone who thinks racism still isn't alive, well and integrated into politics in the U.S. is just fooling themselves.

The problem is that practically all politicans are so damn corrupt and crooked its hard to tell those who hold prejudiced beliefs from those who are just a flat out idiot and don't know any better.

Just sayin.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=GMScud;713229]Interesting story considering the NAACP's charges of racism against the Tea Party.

[URL="http://wcbstv.com/topstories/tea.party.naacp.2.1812710.html"]SHOCK: Racism At NAACP Event? - wcbstv.com[/URL]

Also, rumors flying that the Obama administration may have pushed hard for Sherrod's swift resignation given their uneasiness surrounding the whole Van Jones and Black Panther stories.[/quote]


Have you watched the full, unedited, video? Yes or no.

Did you know that the farmer's wife has spoken out in defense of Ms. Sherrod?

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[quote=12thMan;713311]Have you watched the full, unedited, video? Yes or no.

Did you know that the farmer's wife has spoken out in defense of Ms. Sherrod?[/quote]

The story she was telling is a testament to how far this country has come. Andrew Britbart is well known for releasing edited videos and now he won't allow the company he contracted to release the full video. The company has backedup her story so at this point I don't get why he wont release the full video.

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The account also took place around 1986 when she was working for a non-profit, not as a federal employee as Fox news has been reporting. And you would think that if she was such a racist, the farmer in question would have come out and said it by now. On the contrary, he and his wife appeared on CNN earlier totally backing Ms. Sherrod and saying how they would have lost their farm years ago had it not been for her and the continued assistance she provided.

I'm hearing calls for her to be reinstated, although I doubt this will happen. Oh yeah, Breibart or whatever his name is isTHE biggest douche on the planet. I'm talking about sleeze ball from head to toe.

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[quote=12thMan;713311]Have you watched the full, unedited, video? Yes or no.

Did you know that the farmer's wife has spoken out in defense of Ms. Sherrod?[/quote]

No I have not seen the entire video. I personally don't think what she sad was all that bad, but saying she sent the farmer to a white lawyer just because he was white is a little iffy.

I'm not saying the NAACP is a bad thing. Obviously it's not. But at the same time, they can find racism in a greeting card. Society nowadays is so uber-sensitive.

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It's a shame that reps for both sides are quick to pull the racism card as a defense when we should be making strides to absolve it.

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[quote=GMScud;713315]No I have not seen the entire video. I personally don't think what she sad was all that bad, but saying she sent the farmer to a white lawyer just because he was white is a little iffy.

I'm not saying the NAACP is a bad thing. Obviously it's not. But at the same time, they can find racism in a greeting card. Society nowadays is so uber-sensitive.[/quote]

True about the NAACP. I think what started all of this was their statement calling on the Tea Party to denouce the racist elements within it. This was conservative retaliation, if you will.

I've been extremely critical of the NAACP for years and have felt they need to hit the restart button and move away from the civil rights struggles of the 60s. I'm not sure if this incident helps them or hurts their cause, but it sure is hell keeping them in the news, and nowadays that's not a bad thing.

I will say that I think Fox takes a blow from this, if that's at all possible. Simply because they are at the center of this firestorm and the other major networks have begun to tell the whole story, put it's proper context to it, and air critical interviews of Ms. Sherrod and the farmer and his wife. I don't think Fox viewership will suffer, but their reputation as a credible news organization has definitely taken a step backwards. I look for protests and maybe even lawsuits in the coming days.

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[quote=12thMan;713313]The account also took place around 1986 when she was working for a non-profit, not as a federal employee as Fox news has been reporting. And you would think that if she was such a racist, the farmer in question would have come out and said it by now. On the contrary, he and his wife appeared on CNN earlier totally backing Ms. Sherrod and saying how they would have lost their farm years ago had it not been for her and the continued assistance she provided.

I'm hearing calls for her to be reinstated, although I doubt this will happen. Oh yeah, Breibart or whatever his name is isTHE biggest douche on the planet. I'm talking about sleeze ball from head to toe.[/quote]

She took great pride in those racest statements she made and should have been fired.

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^ You do realize the tape was doctored, right?

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[quote=12thMan;713319][B]True about the NAACP. I think what started all of this was their statement calling on the Tea Party to denouce the racist elements within it.[/B] This was conservative retaliation, if you will.

I've been extremely critical of the NAACP for years and have felt they need to hit the restart button and move away from the civil rights struggles of the 60s. I'm not sure if this incident helps them or hurts their cause, but it sure is hell keeping them in the news, and nowadays that's not a bad thing.

I will say that I think Fox takes a blow from this, if that's at all possible. Simply because they are at the center of this firestorm and the other major networks have begun to tell the whole story, put it's proper context to it, and air critical interviews of Ms. Sherrod and the farmer and his wife. I don't think Fox viewership will suffer, but their reputation as a credible news organization has definitely taken a step backwards. I look for protests and maybe even lawsuits in the coming days.[/quote]


While they did that they never denounced the black panthers for their White cracker stuff and they also supported the same guy when the government was making a case against him. You know the case about intimidation at the poles. The NAACP has no room to call out another group on race issues. I also like how you blame this on the coservatives and not the person who made the comments and the people who cheared her when she said that.
[URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2010/jul/14/naacp-direct-tie-black-panthers/print/"]NAACP direct tie to Black Panthers - Washington Times[/URL]

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=firstdown;713333]While they did that they never denounced the black panthers for their White cracker stuff and they also supported the same guy when the government was making a case against him. You know the case about intimidation at the poles. The NAACP has no room to call out another group on race issues. I also like how you blame this on the coservatives and not the person who made the comments and the people who cheared her when she said that.
[URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2010/jul/14/naacp-direct-tie-black-panthers/print/"]NAACP direct tie to Black Panthers - Washington Times[/URL][/quote]

I'm not going to nitpick about the NAACP, especially an article from the Washington Times.

This story is about a forty-three minute video that was materally altered down to a couple minutes. Yeah, she said what you heard but the context of her speech is extremely important here. And I never blamed conservatives, I put this one squarely on Fox News and Andrew Breitbart. As matter of fact Glenn Beck, of all people, is calling on the Administration to reinstate her. Glenn effen Beck!!!

If the farmer and his wife didn't think she said or did anything racist, then I think that should be enough to clear the air and give the woman her job back.

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What does this have to do with the Tea Party? Since when is taxing, spending, and borrowing the nation into a early insolvency grave about race?

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;713351]What does this have to do with the Tea Party? Since when is taxing, spending, and borrowing the nation into a early insolvency grave about race?[/quote]

Or about Dems vs GOP...both are equally guilty

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=Chico23231;713352]Or about Dems vs GOP...both are equally guilty[/quote]

Damn skippy!

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=Chico23231;713352]Or about Dems vs GOP...both are equally guilty[/quote]

[quote=Trample the Elderly]What does this have to do with the Tea Party? Since when is taxing, spending, and borrowing the nation into a early insolvency grave about race? [/quote]

If these two views can coalesce and bring true change to the political landscape, we could see a renewal of the United States. Unfortunately, the established Democratic/Republican hegemony really will work to scatter and dilute any who bring this message forward.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;713365]If these two views can coalesce and bring true change to the political landscape, we could see a renewal of the United States. Unfortunately, the established Democratic/Republican hegemony really will work to scatter and dilute any who bring this message forward.[/quote]

This is no longer the free society that we have been lead to believe it is. I heard something the other day that made me think. Our government is supposed to derive its power from the consent of the governed. If I can't withdraw my consent, then it isn't consent.

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;713391]This is no longer the free society that we have been lead to believe it is. I heard something the other day that made me think. Our government is supposed to derive its power from the consent of [B]the governed[/B]. If I can't withdraw my consent, then it isn't consent.[/quote]

LOL...you can withdraw your consent but that doesn't mean others will or have as well. You consent and dissent is available through your right to vote. The governed isn't just you, not until you find that one man hilltop of yours.

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[quote=saden1;713394]LOL...you can withdraw your consent but that doesn't mean others will or have as well. You consent and dissent is available through your right to vote. The governed isn't just you, not until you find that one man hilltop of yours.[/quote]

I'm through talking to you. If the Democrats came and burned down your house, you'd find a way to justify it in your mind. You're just a party hack. There are others that can be saved from the brainwashing. You're simply a lost cause.

I guess the American people all consent to the US government borrowing money from China to give to Hamas and to Pakistan?

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[quote=Mattyk;713330]^ You do realize the tape was doctored, right?[/quote]

Not sure if the film was doctored but to be fair I should know the context of what she said before judging her. I don't have time to listen to her entire speech so I'll retract calling her a racist and leave it at that. I have not followed the story on Fox or any other news source and passed my judgment off a 30 second clip and should not pass judgment until I know the facts. I don't want to do what I accuse others of doing all the time.

Re: For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"
 

all this huff and puff about a movement that will be long gone come 2012