Re: Potential Government Shut Down
 

[quote=Hog1;792777]Who did you serve with? How long did you serve? What theatre of battle were you in?[/quote]

Someday when the draft is reconstituted I may but until then I will serve my corporate overlord who pays me handsomely.

God Bless America!

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[quote=saden1;792775]Am I to understand that the pain of the deployed 20 yr old's family is more important to mitigate than that of a married 22+ yo government employee working in the states? Give me break, every person has bills to pay...the pain of not being able to pay your mortgage or car note is universal but somehow that concept is lost to you and your ilk due to misguided ideological stance.

I'm not PC, and I don't care for Windows either. Oh and as someone who hasn't served but has $2,500 mortgage along with a host of other bills I am disgusted by your demand for preferential treatment.[/quote]


If people did not spend more then they should a two or three weeks without pay would not be an issue to start with but to many people have the same spending problem as the US. I'm not saying if its right or wrong just making a point.

This statement is made knowing there is always exceptions to that.

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[quote=saden1;792785]Someday when the draft is reconstituted I may but until then I will serve my corporate overlord who pays me handsomely.

God Bless America![/quote]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I thought so.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I am quite sure you are worth your handsome salary…AND more. I would like to point that there are those that protect your right to earn it, in far away lands. People who protect your freedom and your safety in general. They do so everyday with their blood and sometimes their lives. To generalize their position as equivalent with that of the postal worker or Federal office worker seems somewhat disrespectful and thankless.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]HTTR[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]No respect intended to the Postman or office people as well![/SIZE][/FONT]

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good news out of Washington.....now can the owners & players get a CBA done?

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[quote=saden1;792724]I don't see why they should be classified differently than any other government employee. No pay for everyone![/quote]

First I should say that I am no lover of the American military. I think we are an overly warlike people who only harm ourselves with our wildly inflated military budget. That said, such is not the fault of those who serve in the military. It is a large-scale social and psychological issue.

Soldiers are not like other government workers. They sacrifice their safety and peace of mind for a paycheck which often is not large.

If we don't pay them, then they sacrifice their safety for nothing. That is not fair. And this issue of fairness does not apply to other government workers like me who are not in harm's way.

Re: Potential Government Shut Down
 

^ great post Lotus

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so... is it shut down?

Re: Potential Government Shut Down
 

guess not, for now[url=http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/08/budget-deal-reached-boehner-says/]Budget bill passes Senate, goes to House for approval – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs[/url]

Re: Potential Government Shut Down
 

[quote=saden1;792785]Someday when the draft is reconstituted I may but until then I will serve my corporate overlord who pays me handsomely.

God Bless America![/quote]

Are you kidding me? To raise your nose at our men and women in the armed forces while bragging about making a wad of money in this country by taking advantage of the security that said armed forces provide... Well eff that. A shred of gratuity would be awesome.

An entry level government worker not getting a paycheck IMO does NOT equate to a young marine fighting on the front-lines in some war-torn country while his wife and baby aren't bringing in money back home.

You realize what you sound like, right? - [I]"American soldiers? Eh, you're worth what my freaking mailman is. No money for you. But God Bless this country because I can sit here and reap the benefits of your potentially unpaid service to this nation with my "handsome" salary. Haha. God Bless America. "[/I]

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[quote=GMScud;792801]Are you kidding me? [B]To raise your nose[/B] at our men and women in the armed forces while bragging about making a wad of money in this country by taking advantage of the security that said armed forces provide... Well eff that. A shred of gratuity would be awesome.

[B]An entry level government worker[/B] not getting a paycheck IMO [B]does NOT equate[/B] to a young marine fighting on the front-lines in some war-torn country while his wife and baby aren't bringing in money back home.

You realize what you sound like, right? - [I]"American soldiers? Eh, [B]you're worth what my freaking mailman is[/B]. No money for you. But God Bless this country because I can sit here and reap the benefits of your potentially unpaid service to this nation with [B]my "handsome" salary[/B]. Haha. God Bless America. "[/I][/quote]

Let get this, you're getting on me for "implying" I'm worth more than a service member while at the same time telling me that a service member is worth more than my mailman? The irony is quite rich.

You better plug your nose, it's bleeding profusely.

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[quote=Lotus;792793]First I should say that I am no lover of the American military. I think we are an overly warlike people who only harm ourselves with our wildly inflated military budget. That said, such is not the fault of those who serve in the military. It is a large-scale social and psychological issue.

[B]Soldiers are not like other government workers[/B]. They sacrifice their safety and peace of mind for a paycheck which often is not large.

If we don't pay them, then they sacrifice their safety for nothing. That is not fair. And this issue of fairness does not apply to other government workers like me who are not in harm's way.[/quote]

I'm not talking about faults here. The point is they are part of the government and as such one can not discriminate on their behalf while screwing other government workers. It's a matter of equal protection for all government workers. Somehow this concept is lost or purposefully neglected.

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[quote=Hog1;792791][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I thought so.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I am quite sure you are worth your handsome salary…AND more. I would like to point that there are those that protect your right to earn it, in far away lands. People who protect your freedom and your safety in general. They do so everyday with their blood and sometimes their lives. [B]To generalize their position as equivalent with that of the postal worker or Federal office worker seems somewhat disrespectful and thankless.[/B][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]HTTR[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]No respect intended to the Postman or office people as well![/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

Please read more carefully...the inability to get paid and pay your bills is equal regardless who you believe to be performing a more important work.

One of the problems with North Korea is that the military dictatorships gets to eat before the people. That is to say they are more important than the general public.

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[quote=saden1;792806]I'm not talking about faults here. The point is they are part of the government and as such one can not discriminate on their behalf while screwing other government workers. It's a matter of equal protection for all government workers. Somehow this concept is lost or purposefully neglected.[/quote]

I perfectly understand your equal protection argument. You may apply "equal protection" when government workers take equal personal risk on behalf of those who are served. On this basis I would find it immoral if the government had shut down, depriving government workers of wages, while members of Congress continued to draw paychecks.

But military and nonmilitary workers do not take equal risks. Risks have to be balanced with rewards. Therefore the equal protection argument is nullified. Besides, there is an issue of compassion. Military families already have to worry about whether Daddy will come home; to deprive them of their wages in such a situation is just downright mean-spirited.

I am a government worker with a non-military job. I would have no problem if the government shut down, depriving me of wages, but the military still got paid. I don't take the risks that others do so I shouldn't be entitled to the same rewards.

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So with all that the best they could do was to cut 37 billion. I know thats allot of money but not when you compare it to the size of their budget. Its like us cutting a few dollars off our budget. We have a bunch of chicken shits running this country who's only concern is re election. so to them the only thing I have to say is.


[IMG]http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n527/The44thHour/TheFinger.gif[/IMG]

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[quote=Lotus;792817]I perfectly understand your equal protection argument. You may apply "equal protection" when government workers take equal personal risk on behalf of those who are served. On this basis I would find it immoral if the government had shut down, depriving government workers of wages, while members of Congress continued to draw paychecks.

But military and nonmilitary workers do not take equal risks. Risks have to be balanced with rewards. Therefore the equal protection argument is nullified. Besides, there is an issue of compassion. Military families already have to worry about whether Daddy will come home; to deprive them of their wages in such a situation is just downright mean-spirited.

I am a government worker with a non-military job. I would have no problem if the government shut down, depriving me of wages, but the military still got paid. I don't take the risks that others do so I shouldn't be entitled to the same rewards.[/quote]

This. Very good post.

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[quote=Lotus;792817]I perfectly understand your equal protection argument. You may apply "equal protection" when government workers take equal personal risk on behalf of those who are served. On this basis I would find it immoral if the government had shut down, depriving government workers of wages, while members of Congress continued to draw paychecks.

But military and nonmilitary workers do not take equal risks. Risks have to be balanced with rewards. Therefore the equal protection argument is nullified. Besides, there is an issue of compassion. Military families already have to worry about whether Daddy will come home; to deprive them of their wages in such a situation is just downright mean-spirited.

[B]I am a government worker with a non-military job. [B]I would have no problem if the government shut down, depriving me of wages[/B], but the military still got paid. I don't take the risks that others do so I shouldn't be entitled to the same rewards.[/B][/quote]


You will be alright I'm sure, I wonder if the secretaries and janitors will be. There are a lot of low level government employees who will be hurting and I'm not interested in depriving them of a paycheck while paying military personal. The financial troubles of this country is partly due to the isolation of the military from any cuts and babying them at every turn in budgetary matters while throwing other government employees under the bus. Fck that!

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Great work by Obama et al. They didn't blink and the republicans folded...now everyone is going to get paid for one more week. Until next Friday...let's hope republicans are more successful in shutting down the government.

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[quote=saden1;792823][B]You will be alright I'm sure, I wonder if the secretaries and janitors will be.[/B] There are a lot of low level government employees who will be hurting and I'm not interested in depriving them of a paycheck while paying military personal. [B]The financial troubles of this country is partly due to the isolation of the military from any cuts[/B] and babying them at every turn in budgetary matters while throwing other government employees under the bus. Fck that![/quote]

1) Actually you have no idea what my financial situation is. Further, the secretaries and janitors which you mention are my colleagues and friends, so I'm quite sure that I know their lives better than you do. Making an argument based on personal finances of which you are ignorant is fallacious.

2) Your complaint about isolating the military from other cuts is a good one. As I said above, I advocate a drastic reduction in our military budget. But that is a systemic problem which requires changes in large-scale planning and financial infrastructure. Not paying military families in the short term, as you have advocated, does nothing to bring about this overall, long-term planning and infrastructure change.

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[quote=Lotus;792825]1) Actually you have no idea what my financial situation is. Further, the secretaries and janitors which you mention are my colleagues and friends, so I'm quite sure that I know their lives better than you do. Making an argument based on personal finances of which you are ignorant is fallacious.

2) Your complaint about isolating the military from other cuts is a good one. As I said above, I advocate a drastic reduction in our military budget. But that is a systemic problem which requires changes in large-scale planning and financial infrastructure. Not paying military families in the short term, as you have advocated, does nothing to bring about this overall, long-term planning and infrastructure change.[/quote]

LOOL, you are the one who said you wouldn't have a problem with depriving you of wages. Do read your posts or I'm I supposed to read a certain way?

Absolutely it does bring about change. The next time there is a threat of a shutdown the president will have more leverage. Kudos to obama for setting a precedence.

Re: Potential Government Shut Down
 

[quote=Lotus;792825]1) Actually you have no idea what my financial situation is. Further, the secretaries and janitors which you mention are my colleagues and friends, so I'm quite sure that I know their lives better than you do. Making an argument based on personal finances of which you are ignorant is fallacious.

2) Your complaint about isolating the military from other cuts is a good one. As I said above, I advocate a drastic reduction in our military budget. But that is a systemic problem which requires changes in large-scale planning and financial infrastructure. Not paying military families in the short term, as you have advocated, does nothing to bring about this overall, long-term planning and infrastructure change.[/quote]

Furthermore you have no idea who I known and don't know and whether I know secretaries/janitors and thier financial situation. So for you assume I don't know anything while accusing me of assuming things is absurd.

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[quote=saden1;792827]LOOL, you are the one who said you wouldn't have a problem with depriving you of wages. Do read your posts or I'm I supposed to read a certain way?

Absolutely it does bring about change. The next time there is a threat of a shutdown the president will have more leverage. Kudos to obama for setting a precedence.[/quote]

1) Yes, I said that I would not have a problem with being deprived of wages while military families get paid. Nothing that I said above contradicted that. You still have no idea how much hardship that would or would not bring to me.

But you failed to understand my point so let me put things differently: I am a government worker. You are not. So don't lecture me on the life of a government worker. Shall I lecture you on what it is like to live in Seattle?

2) No, a short-term solution does not bring about long-term structural change. Only long-term solutions do. This point is not difficult to grasp.

It is not as hard to admit that you are wrong as you make it out to be.

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[quote=Lotus;792830]It is not as hard to [B]admit that you are wrong[/B] as you make it out to be.[/quote]Well done Lotus. However, I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening. LOL

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[quote=saden1;792824]Great work by Obama et al. They didn't blink and the republicans folded...now everyone is going to get paid for one more week. Until next Friday...let's hope republicans are more successful in shutting down the government.[/quote]

Was it not Boehner who closed the deal? Aren't the $38.5B in cuts more than what was expected? Not sure I'd be congratulatiing Obama for this one. Personally I'm happy both sides were able to work together.

[url=http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/52853.html]John Boehner closes the deal to avoid government shutdown - John Bresnahan and Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com[/url]

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Wow! Going through this banter going back and forth I want to point out that the Gentleman from Seattle is the personification of an oxy-moron. An Elitist-Socialist. Never thought I'd witness that.

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[quote=Lotus;792830]1) Yes, I said that I would not have a problem with being deprived of wages while military families get paid. Nothing that I said above contradicted that. You still have no idea how much hardship that would or would not bring to me.

But you failed to understand my point so let me put things differently: I am a government worker. You are not. So don't lecture me on the life of a government worker. Shall I lecture you on what it is like to live in Seattle?

2) No, a short-term solution does not bring about long-term structural change. Only long-term solutions do. This point is not difficult to grasp.

It is not as hard to admit that you are wrong as you make it out to be.[/quote]

I don't know what hardship is and I can't possibly know what it is like to be a low level government employee? That's all you got? You have no clue what you are talking about so there is no reason to admit I am wrong.

So weak, so rubbish of a post.

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[quote=BuckSkin;792844]Wow! Going through this banter going back and forth I want to point out that the Gentleman from Seattle is the personification of an oxy-moron. An Elitist-Socialist. Never thought I'd witness that.[/quote]

Sucks to be you.

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[quote=saden1;792847]Sucks to be you.[/quote]

And now with the greatest rebuttal in high school history.... "OH YEAH!"