Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

Firstdown,

People are going to buy drugs one way or another. The source may change, but if people want them they will find them. Fairly simple supply vs demand issue. Keep in mind, I said violent criminals should be in jail. Most of these big time drug groups are also violent criminals. That said, each offense has a graduated fine scale that quickly increases. If they fail to get the message, they will eventually be jailed.

Each person we have in prison ends up costing the US $22,000 a year*. That's your tax money hard at work to put other humans in cages to sit there all day. The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Are we really the most crime ridden country, or are our laws part of the issue? I would argue there are issues with our laws. Want to cut spending? Start with keeping non-violent prisoners out of jail and have them pay fines. That makes money rather than losing it.

Look at our recidivsm rate in the country. The amount of people that go BACK to jail after being there is terribly high. After going to jail within 3 years 60ish percent are rearrested and 50ish percent are back in jail. When someone goes to jail, then gets out, they can't find a job, they've learned no skills to help them become a contributor to society, but rather continues to be a drain. We're sending people to jail, then kicking them out on the streets with no real way to support themselves, then expect them to not commit more crimes? If you want to keep putting record numbers of people in jail, we should be forcing them to develop skills and vocations. It wouldn't cost much more and I would be curious to see the effect on the recidivsm rate.

Most privatized prisons get paid for 90% occupancy, if they aren't full. They may be 'cheaper' than government run prisons, but I don't think there should ever be financial incentives for people to go to jail. There have been cases showing Judges giving overly harsh sentences and getting kick backs from these prisons. Here's one case: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal]Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

There is no positive for society to toss people in jail to rot. Some people are beyond saving, but there are a lot of people who make bad decisions early in life and are unable to rebound. I couldn't imagine having jail time/a felony on my record and trying to get a job. It's damn near impossible and people will do what they need to do to survive. I'm not making excuses, some people are just bad apples, and they deserve to stay in prison. Some people can be highly functioning and contributing members of society if they don't spend a couple years in jail for fairly minor crimes.

* - Got this from a single source, will gladly hear other numbers.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

How about chain gangs? Make felons work off their time?

My car needs washing.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1000365]How about chain gangs? Make felons work off their time?

My car needs washing.[/quote]

I'm fine with labor or a fine. Their choice.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Daseal;1000373]I'm fine with labor or a fine. Their choice.[/quote]

Must be some roads we need built. Parks need cleaning up, rivers dredged, that kind of stuff.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Daseal;1000355]Firstdown,

People are going to buy drugs one way or another. The source may change, but if people want them they will find them. Fairly simple supply vs demand issue. Keep in mind, I said violent criminals should be in jail. Most of these big time drug groups are also violent criminals. That said, each offense has a graduated fine scale that quickly increases. If they fail to get the message, they will eventually be jailed.

Each person we have in prison ends up costing the US $22,000 a year*. That's your tax money hard at work to put other humans in cages to sit there all day. The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Are we really the most crime ridden country, or are our laws part of the issue? I would argue there are issues with our laws. Want to cut spending? Start with keeping non-violent prisoners out of jail and have them pay fines. That makes money rather than losing it.

Look at our recidivsm rate in the country. The amount of people that go BACK to jail after being there is terribly high. After going to jail within 3 years 60ish percent are rearrested and 50ish percent are back in jail. When someone goes to jail, then gets out, they can't find a job, they've learned no skills to help them become a contributor to society, but rather continues to be a drain. We're sending people to jail, then kicking them out on the streets with no real way to support themselves, then expect them to not commit more crimes? If you want to keep putting record numbers of people in jail, we should be forcing them to develop skills and vocations. It wouldn't cost much more and I would be curious to see the effect on the recidivsm rate.

Most privatized prisons get paid for 90% occupancy, if they aren't full. They may be 'cheaper' than government run prisons, but I don't think there should ever be financial incentives for people to go to jail. There have been cases showing Judges giving overly harsh sentences and getting kick backs from these prisons. Here's one case: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal"]Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

There is no positive for society to toss people in jail to rot. Some people are beyond saving, but there are a lot of people who make bad decisions early in life and are unable to rebound. I couldn't imagine having jail time/a felony on my record and trying to get a job. It's damn near impossible and people will do what they need to do to survive. I'm not making excuses, some people are just bad apples, and they deserve to stay in prison. Some people can be highly functioning and contributing members of society if they don't spend a couple years in jail for fairly minor crimes.

* - Got this from a single source, will gladly hear other numbers.[/quote]


Your preaching to the wrong person. I'm all for legalizing drugs. As far as private jails its not like the companies are the ones throwing people in jail so they can turn a profit.

As for the kids for cash its illegal and that stuff also happenes in the public systems.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[url=http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/outrageous-hsbc-settlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-20121213]Outrageous HSBC Settlement Proves the Drug War is a Joke | | Rolling Stone[/url]


[quote]If you've ever been arrested on a drug charge, if you've ever spent even a day in jail for having a stem of marijuana in your pocket or "drug paraphernalia" in your gym bag, Assistant Attorney General and longtime Bill Clinton pal Lanny Breuer has a message for you: Bite me.

Breuer this week signed off on a settlement deal with the British banking giant HSBC that is the ultimate insult to every ordinary person who's ever had his life altered by a narcotics charge. Despite the fact that HSBC admitted to laundering billions of dollars for Colombian and Mexican drug cartels (among others) and violating a host of important banking laws (from the Bank Secrecy Act to the Trading With the Enemy Act), Breuer and his Justice Department elected not to pursue criminal prosecutions of the bank, opting instead for a "record" financial settlement of $1.9 billion, which as one analyst noted is about five weeks of income for the bank.

The banks' laundering transactions were so brazen that the NSA probably could have spotted them from space. Breuer admitted that drug dealers would sometimes come to HSBC's Mexican branches and "deposit hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, in a single day, into a single account, using boxes designed to fit the precise dimensions of the teller windows.[/quote]


[YT]7cKTBy7_S_I[/YT]


As I told you, the system is rigged.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/21/opinion/grenier-drug-war/index.html?hpt=hp_c3]Adrian Grenier:Drug war demonizes people - CNN.com[/url]

Documentary coming out, interesting fact:

"How to Make Money Selling Drugs" [B]reveals that the real big bucks are made in the law enforcement, drug testing and prison industries[/B]. Each year, the U.S. spends more than $51 billion on the local, state and federal level to fund the drug war. This money would be well spent if it effectively protected public safety and health --- but instead it has dismantled families and communities, while reinforcing violence, overdose and illness.

Fortunately, the public is growing more aware. A majority of Americans believe the drug war has failed and support reforms such as decriminalization of marijuana, according to the Pew Research Center."

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

Why, it's almost as if we've allowed a drug class to be created to provide a revenue stream.

Cynical yet?

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Chico23231;1012847][url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/21/opinion/grenier-drug-war/index.html?hpt=hp_c3]Adrian Grenier:Drug war demonizes people - CNN.com[/url]

Documentary coming out, interesting fact:

"How to Make Money Selling Drugs" [B]reveals that the real big bucks are made in the law enforcement, drug testing and prison industries[/B]. Each year, the U.S. spends more than $51 billion on the local, state and federal level to fund the drug war. This money would be well spent if it effectively protected public safety and health --- but instead it has dismantled families and communities, while reinforcing violence, overdose and illness.

Fortunately, the public is growing more aware. A majority of Americans believe the drug war has failed and support reforms such as decriminalization of marijuana, according to the Pew Research Center."[/quote]

Too bad issues like this can't generate as much public outcry as a gaming console having DRM or mandatory online check-in requirements. :doh:

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

All part of the subtle neutering of the herds intellect.

Give 'em their daytime shows and fast food, who needs anything else?

Murica!

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Mattyk;1012867]Too bad issues like this can't generate as much public outcry as a gaming console having DRM or mandatory online check-in requirements. :doh:[/quote]

Like I've before, when the aliens dig up our civilization and study it...it wont be hard to tell the story of why.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1000394]Must be some roads we need built. Parks need cleaning up, rivers dredged, that kind of stuff.[/quote]
This ... make them work 10 hrs / day , 6 days / week laying roads , planting trees ect. I would also fine criminal's ( not just drug arrests ) . As far as food , give them seeds and plant there own garden .

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/index.html?hpt=hp_t1]Dr. Sanjay Gupta: Why I changed my mind on weed - CNN.com[/url]

another convert, time to decriminalize

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Chico23231;1018082][url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/index.html?hpt=hp_t1]Dr. Sanjay Gupta: Why I changed my mind on weed - CNN.com[/url]

another convert, time to decriminalize[/quote]

It's inevitable.

The wheels of change are already in motion.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

I love listening to some drunk talk about how drugs should be illegal.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/09/opinion/st-pierre-armentano-marijuana/index.html?hpt=hp_t4]Opinion: Americans agree: Pot's no crime - CNN.com[/url]

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/12/politics/holder-mandatory-minimums/index.html?hpt=hp_t2]Holder to call for scaled-back mandatory minimum sentences - CNN.com[/url]

This is really good news, but with Holder, actions will speak louder than words. Mandatory mininums are garbage and part of the problem with the justice system. The application of how laws are enforced is the the next step imo, the enforcement is based on race and a word we never use but certainly should more often, class.

Holder, imo, has probably been the worst of the entire Obama administration. He's been a really horrible Attorny General. Lying, inconsistent, and def not transparent with his department's actions.

Its good to see some leadership on such a tough issue, but we need to do more. This is a good first step.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=firstdown;1018439]I love listening to some drunk talk about how drugs should be illegal.[/quote]
kind of like listening to rush saying it should be illegal?

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=dmek25;1018574]kind of like listening to rush saying it should be illegal?[/quote]

Iguess I don't listen to rush.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Chico23231;1018542][URL="http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/12/politics/holder-mandatory-minimums/index.html?hpt=hp_t2"]Holder to call for scaled-back mandatory minimum sentences - CNN.com[/URL]

This is really good news, but with Holder, actions will speak louder than words. Mandatory mininums are garbage and part of the problem with the justice system. The application of how laws are enforced is the the next step imo, the enforcement is based on race and a word we never use but certainly should more often, class.

[B]Holder, imo, has probably been the worst of the entire Obama administration[/B]. He's been a really horrible Attorny General. Lying, inconsistent, and def not transparent with his department's actions.

Its good to see some leadership on such a tough issue, but we need to do more. This is a good first step.[/quote]

Thats as about as low as one can go. You think someone would have to try and be that bad.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

Mandatory minimums really need to go the way of the dinosaurs.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Chico23231;1018542]Holder, imo, has probably been the worst of the entire Obama administration. He's been a really horrible Attorny General. Lying, inconsistent, and def not transparent with his department's actions.[/quote]


Well, he's only doing what the President is instructing him to do. His boss is also full of lies and def not transparent with his administration's actions.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

This could be seen by history as the turning point of the drug war:

[url=http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23973568/federal-government-wont-block-colorado-marijauna-legalization?source=rss]Federal government won't block Colorado marijuana legalization - The Denver Post[/url]

[QUOTE]The guidance instead speaks to prioritization of federal resources and lists eight federal priorities that prosecutors should consider when deciding whether to undertake a prosecution. They are:

• Preventing marijuana distribution to minors

• Preventing money from sales from going to criminal groups

• Preventing the diversion of marijuana from states where it is legal to states where it is illegal

• Preventing criminal groups from using state laws as cover for trafficking of other illegal drugs

• Preventing violence and the use of illegal firearms

• Preventing drugged driving

• Preventing the growing of marijuana on public lands

• Preventing marijuana possession or use on federal property[/QUOTE]

Most of these things are appropriate regulation even once it get legalized

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1021249]This could be seen by history as the turning point of the drug war:

[url=http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23973568/federal-government-wont-block-colorado-marijauna-legalization?source=rss]Federal government won't block Colorado marijuana legalization - The Denver Post[/url]



Most of these things are appropriate regulation even once it get legalized[/quote]

I always figured they would start to ease up on this stuff in O's second term. Just paving the way for full scale legalization in the next 5-10 years.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/30/marijuana-legalization-states_n_3838866.html]These States Are Most Likely To Legalize Pot Next[/url]

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[url=http://www.nbc12.com/story/23695834/research-shows-oreos-can-be-just-as-addicting-as-drugs]Research shows Oreos can be just as addictive as drugs - NBC12.com - Richmond, VA News[/url]

How is weed still illegal and oreos and crap food are legal and actually addictive, unlike weed?

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Chico23231;1033267][URL="http://www.nbc12.com/story/23695834/research-shows-oreos-can-be-just-as-addicting-as-drugs"]Research shows Oreos can be just as addictive as drugs - NBC12.com - Richmond, VA News[/URL]

How is weed still illegal and oreos and crap food are legal and actually addictive, unlike weed?[/quote]

See if they did the test right they would have given the rats weed first. Then the rates would have ran over and had a few Oreos.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=firstdown;1033308]See if they did the test right they would have given the rats weed first. Then the rates would have ran over and had a few Oreos.[/quote]

:laughing2

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Chico23231;1033267][URL="http://www.nbc12.com/story/23695834/research-shows-oreos-can-be-just-as-addicting-as-drugs"]Research shows Oreos can be just as addictive as drugs - NBC12.com - Richmond, VA News[/URL]

How is weed still illegal and oreos and crap food are legal and actually addictive, unlike weed?[/quote]


I think it depends on just how cold the milk is with those Oreos .:)

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Chico23231;1033267][url=http://www.nbc12.com/story/23695834/research-shows-oreos-can-be-just-as-addicting-as-drugs]Research shows Oreos can be just as addictive as drugs - NBC12.com - Richmond, VA News[/url]

How is weed still illegal and oreos and crap food are legal and actually addictive, unlike weed?[/quote]

Without getting too off topic you hit the nail on the head. Some of the artificial crap in processed foods, HFCS, for example are appetizer stimulants causing individuals to over indulge.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/opinion/riffle-marijuana-safety/index.html?iid=article_sidebar]Opinion: Marijuana is safer than alcohol - CNN.com[/url]

"Don't believe it could work? In 2009, Colorado's medical marijuana industry exploded, prompting the state to put in place the kinds of regulations I've just outlined. According to CDC data on youth drug use, from 2009 to 2011 -- a time when youth marijuana use increased nationally -- the percentage of Colorado teens using marijuana dropped more than any other state in the country and is now below the national average.

Marijuana is safer than alcohol; let's treat it that way. Adults who would prefer to use marijuana instead of alcohol should be free to do so. Just as significant, the law enforcement resources spent making those three-quarters of a million arrests could instead be devoted to preventing and solving real crimes.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

Two thumbs up ^

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1035505][url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/opinion/riffle-marijuana-safety/index.html?iid=article_sidebar]Opinion: Marijuana is safer than alcohol - CNN.com[/url]

"Don't believe it could work? In 2009, Colorado's medical marijuana industry exploded, prompting the state to put in place the kinds of regulations I've just outlined. According to CDC data on youth drug use, from 2009 to 2011 -- a time when youth marijuana use increased nationally -- the percentage of Colorado teens using marijuana dropped more than any other state in the country and is now below the national average.

Marijuana is safer than alcohol; let's treat it that way. Adults who would prefer to use marijuana instead of alcohol should be free to do so. Just as significant, the law enforcement resources spent making those three-quarters of a million arrests could instead be devoted to preventing and solving real crimes.[/QUOTE]

I firmly believe that marijuana should be legal. That said, I went to Colorado in August and was walking through a mall in Colorado Springs with my kids when a couple teens walked by us and the conversation they had went like this. What y'all doin tonight? Oh we're going over and getting high. Linearly laughed out loud and cringed at the same time. And there were more pot shops in Colorado Springs then 7-11s, not exaggerating.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25566863]BBC News - Cannabis goes on legal sale in US state of Colorado[/url]

I need to move

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

I dont get how legal perscription pills kill well over 100 people per day, most due to substance abuse, and yet people worry about marijuana being legal?:
[url=http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/rxbrief/]CDC - Prescription Painkiller Overdoses Policy Impact Brief - Home and Recreational Safety - Injury Center[/url]

Why isnt congress dragging in pharmaceutical companies and ask what are they doing to stop the abuse of their own drugs that kill upwards of 240 people per day across the country?

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Chico23231;1052923]I dont get how legal perscription pills kill well over 100 people per day, most due to substance abuse, and yet people worry about marijuana being legal?:
[url=http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/rxbrief/]CDC - Prescription Painkiller Overdoses Policy Impact Brief - Home and Recreational Safety - Injury Center[/url]

Why isnt congress dragging in pharmaceutical companies and ask what are they doing to stop the abuse of their own drugs that kill upwards of 240 people per day across the country?[/quote]

Yeah it's definitely disgusting what's going on with prescription pain killers these days. I see the abuse all the time in my line of work. Doctors hand out em out like candy.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

Hell, not only will this end this stupid "war on drugs", but it'll save money and actually help pay off this nations debt!!


[url=http://www.9news.com/news/article/371498/339/Pot-sales-exceed-1-million-on-first-day]Marijuana shops enter second day of retail sales | 9news.com[/url]

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1053140]Hell, not only will this end this stupid "war on drugs", but it'll save money and actually help pay off this nations debt!!


[url=http://www.9news.com/news/article/371498/339/Pot-sales-exceed-1-million-on-first-day]Marijuana shops enter second day of retail sales | 9news.com[/url][/quote]

Not only revenue, but think of saved cost in our court systems and with locking up people for no good reason. The fact someone could go to jail for possession is redic. Any jail time for a dried plant is cruel and unusual punishment.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1035558]I firmly believe that marijuana should be legal. That said, I went to Colorado in August and was walking through a mall in Colorado Springs with my kids when a couple teens walked by us and the conversation they had went like this. What y'all doin tonight? Oh we're going over and getting high. Linearly laughed out loud and cringed at the same time. And there were more pot shops in Colorado Springs then 7-11s, not exaggerating.[/quote]

I get what your saying, would you feel more secure if the kids were saying we were getting drunk or taking mom's pain pills in the medicine cabinent? Its tough to be a parent these days, best way is to educate kids about real risks of using many drugs, legal and illegal. addiction comes in many forms and vices

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Chico23231;1053147]I get what your saying, would you feel more secure if the kids were saying we were getting drunk or taking mom's pain pills in the medicine cabinent? Its tough to be a parent these days, best way is to educate kids about real risks of using many drugs, legal and illegal. addiction comes in many forms and vices[/quote]
I am in the firm Marijuana should be legal corner. Too many wasted lives from being in and out of jail over it. Too much money spent on a rabbit hole. Too many resources tied up over the prohibition's enforcement.