Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=GreekSkin;832677]just going by memory, he made a lot of his tackles in the backfield and on runners in general. It's also not his job to cover everyone so if a corner or linebacker allow a player to catch the ball he still has to tackle them.

I don't think his high number of tackles had anything to do with his coverage skills, except for the fact that the coaches prefer to play him closer to the line of scrimmage.[/quote]

I wouldn't say that the high number of tackles is in and of itself an indicator of poor play by LL - it is more symptomatic with a poor defense in general....running backs getting to the second level....poor CB play....etc.

[YT]uMkxgjrdn9w[/YT]

Please note the large "bubbles" in the Skins D that should not exist in any 3-4 D.

For LL's part, he did his job by bringing guys to the ground, but he still had trouble in 2010 with taking poor angles.

Sorry to keep harping on the Eagles game - it was like watching someone steal my bike when I was 8, but notice the poor angles LL took in pass defense....

[YT]MiVk411h9LI&feature[/YT]

He can fix that with a little patience and a willingness to not [I]always[/I] go for the kill.

Oh, and that first pass to DeSean Jackson, LL had his man beat....he lost him by misjudging the ball.

There were multiple failed responsibilities on that play however, including the CB #83 who let DJ past him without any contact, whatsoever. At that point LL became more of a safety valve who's primary task was preventing a TD.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=polywog;832676]

LL has trouble in coverage. It ain't his strong suit. He makes up for it by trucking guys. Just so you know I'm not a complete LL hater, here is Laron at his best....

[/quote]

I don't disagree with the fact that LL can struggle in coverage. In fact, a close reading of my passage which you quoted indicates this.

But some people have argued in this thread in a black-and-white way that LL cannot cover and have cherry picked photos and videos to "prove" this. The truth is actually a shade of gray. Sometimes he struggles, sometimes he covers well.

He doesn't just make up for his poor coverage plays by "trucking people." He also makes up for poor coverage plays by providing good coverage plays.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Lotus;832687]I don't disagree with the fact that LL can struggle in coverage. In fact, a close reading of my passage which you quoted indicates this.

But some people have argued in this thread in a black-and-white way that LL cannot cover and have cherry picked photos and videos to "prove" this. The truth is actually a shade of gray. Sometimes he struggles, sometimes he covers well.

He doesn't just make up for his poor coverage plays by "trucking people." He also makes up for poor coverage plays by providing good coverage plays.[/quote]

So he's "hit" or miss? Is that the point?

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=NC_Skins;832637]I didn't mention any play. That picture just summed his coverage ability.[/quote]

Ok, a picture of that one play, same thing :doh:

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

if its not D Hall, its LL now? Sweet

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=wilsowilso;832384]The only problem I have with Laron Landry is the fact that his football IQ is atrocious.

We are much better when he is on the field ONLY when the defensive coaching staff makes sure he doesn't have to think. At all. Ever.[/quote]

[url=http://redskins.espn980.com/#landrysep7]The Redskins Portal - ESPN 980[/url]

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Bucket;832671]I didn't twist any words. You said his coverage skills were poor, and I disagree. They are not on the level of a Cornerback, and that's because he's not play cornerback.[/quote]


You didn't? I'd say you did.


[quote=Bucket;832654]Yes.. [U]Pick out one play [/U]and base that on his coverage play.[/quote]


[quote=Bucket;832654]I'm just saying.. It's kinda rediculous to pull out a persons bad plays and [U]call him bad [/U]when you don't mention the good ones.[/quote]

I never mentioned any particular play, nor did I use that as an example. I posted a picture that summed it up. If I wanted, I could go back and get video from quite a few games where he's blown coverages. Hell, that Saints game at home where he bit on that double move and got toasted. In fact, here are the highlights.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d814c5c5d/NFL-GameDay-Saints-vs-Redskins-highlights]NFL Videos: NFL GameDay: Saints vs. Redskins highlights[/url]







[quote=Bucket;832654]He's basically a roamer, and that is what he excels at. I just wouldn't compare him to Roy Williams because Roy Williams had 0 pass defensive skills.

Landry is not going to ever beat D. Jackson or any other top WR in the NFL ina coverage contest because he's not suppose to. There is 11 players on the field, and they all have responsibilities.
[/quote]


Roy Williams. That's basically what he did and what you described. How can you sit there and say RW had 0 pass defensive skills and then claim LL has them? Because he's a Cowboy and LL is a Skin? If RW has 0 pass defensive kills, than so do LL. At least you people can be consistent instead of talking out both sides of the mouth. Their skill sets are pretty much identical.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;832674] Roy Williams was a hitter ill give him that [U]but LaRon covers much better then him [/U]and is pretty much more athletic then him in every way possible. (speed, agility, acceleration, quickness, etc.) [/quote]

Got the numbers or proof of that? Of course you don't, but it's the internet right.

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;832674](NC SKINS is a hater to sum this long ass paragraph up)[/quote]

Thanks for showing up and contributing nothing. Collect your door prize on the way out.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

Dog him all u want. Top 10 safety .. I supposed u want doughty to start now too? Bring up allllllll the footage u want. Top 10. Who would u rather have that we CANT have...? Ryan Clark?? .. really? .. name someone .. that isn't glued in on their team... dudes field coverage sideline to sideline and beyond is great... member wen we used to okay him one man back by himself 20+ yds off the ball? Shoe me where he got beat out there by himself like that... pull that footage... just stop. .. or vote to get rude of him.... tired of hearing how he's such a liability and being compared to row Williams???? That's a joke... I don't hear about Moss burning LL everyday in practice like he ALWAYS burnt Williams... makes me sick

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Mattyk;832695]Ok, a picture of that one play, same thing :doh:[/quote]


No, you chose that picture to represent what YOU wanted it to. Not the same thing. If I were going to use that "play", then I would have brought out the video (and more) to prove my points, which I have in the past. In fact, I removed the picture so you guys would pipe down about somebody pointing out "that one play" in your talking points.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=NC_Skins;832718][B]No, you chose that picture to represent what YOU wanted it to. Not the same thing[/B]. If I were going to use that "play", then I would have brought out the video (and more) to prove my points, which I have in the past. In fact, I removed the picture so you guys would pipe down about somebody pointing out "that one play" in your talking points.[/quote]

I don't even know how to respond other than...

:doh:

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

Excuse the Droid errors in that rant, ur all big boys,(and girls) , I'm sure u can read passed it

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=NC_Skins;832718]No, you chose that picture to represent what YOU wanted it to. Not the same thing. If I were going to use that "play", then I would have brought out the video (and more) to prove my points, which I have in the past. In fact, I removed the picture so you guys would pipe down about somebody pointing out "that one play" in your talking points.[/quote]

Admit it NC....you hate LL! Furthermore, you only [I]hate him[/I] because you sweat his six-pack!

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=GreekSkin;832662]I can actually because of two reasons:

1. Roy Williams was never good enough to have 5 pro bowl selections and he benefited greatly by being associated with the Cowboys.

2. He barely played in schemes that suited his abilities.

On the other hand Laron is finally being played in a scheme both he and the coach like.[/quote]


What? That doesn't even make sense.

1) RW was never good enough, but yet he got voted 5 times to the Pro-Bowl and one All-Pro team. Oh, yeah, that "Redskins Hatter Media" again right? :rolleyes:

2) Didn't play in schemes that suited his abilities? What? So is that why he got voted to those all-star honors?


No, that's the problem. The defense [B]DID[/B] catered to his skill set (roamer/tackler/play maker) to a point where he was All-Pro, but it eventually suffered due to the drop in coverage. At that point, they had to replace him because teams were attacking that weak spot. Sure fans thought he was good, but his team(and others) knew he really wasn't when it came to being a "complete" safety. It's the exact reason why Meriweather was kicked to the curb in New England after making 2 straight Pro-Bowls. Remember now, you guys like using the Pro-Bowl as your stats to prove a individuals worth.



[quote=GreekSkin;832677]I don't think his high number of tackles had anything to do with his coverage skills, except for the fact that the coaches prefer to play him closer to the line of scrimmage.[/quote]

They put him there because coverage IS is weakness. He excels at swarming the ball and is in part the reason he fails in coverage. He's aggressive and continually goes after the big play instead of playing sound defense.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Mattyk;832719]I don't even know how to respond other than...

:doh:[/quote]


I do. You took the picture I posted to sum up my thoughts on his coverage ability and ran with it that I'm using that one play to back up my thoughts on him being like Roy Williams. Fail on your part. I still <3 you though Matty.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

This thread is getting to be pointless. Haters are gonna hate no matter what reasoned argument is offered.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=polywog;832721]Admit it NC....you hate LL! Furthermore, you only [I]hate him[/I] because you sweat his six-pack![/quote]

Actually, I don't hate him (or D. Hall). I think they have all world talent, but choose the play the position without discipline. It's all about making big plays to them. Make enough of them and fans will love you (even though they don't see the back side where you cost the team games) and that leads to big time contracts.

I think he's in the exact mold Roy Williams is, and kids call that hating. To each their own. At least I'm logical and realistic about the players on the Redskins.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=NC_Skins;832731]Actually, I don't hate him (or D. Hall). I think they have all world talent, but choose the play the position without discipline. It's all about making big plays to them. Make enough of them and fans will love you (even though they don't see the back side where you cost the team games) and that leads to big time contracts.

I think he's in the exact mold Roy Williams is, and kids call that hating. To each their own. [B]At least I'm logical and realistic about the players on the Redskins.[/B][/quote]

Your arguments are cherry picked. That is neither logical nor realistic. You've turned a shades-of-gray reality into a black-and-white.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=NC_Skins;832726]I do. You took the picture I posted to sum up my thoughts on his coverage ability and ran with it that I'm using that one play to back up my thoughts on him being like Roy Williams. Fail on your part. I still <3 you though Matty.[/quote]

You're in twilight zone territory my friend.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=NC_Skins;832731]Actually, I don't hate him (or D. Hall). I think they have all world talent, but choose the play the position without discipline. It's all about making big plays to them. Make enough of them and fans will love you (even though they don't see the back side where you cost the team games) and that leads to big time contracts.

I think he's in the exact mold Roy Williams is, and kids call that hating. To each their own. At least I'm logical and realistic about the players on the Redskins.[/quote]

Remember Lavar Arington.....AKA "wrong way?" Pro-bowl LB who [B]refused[/B] to play within a scheme. A LIABILITY TO ANY TEAM....fans can't see that. They only hear about the big plays that announcers would make on game-day. Lavar could do no wrong in their eyes. He was beyond reproach.

To me, he was a selfish prick who put himself before the [B]team[/B]. This was never more abundantly discernible, than when he pitched a fit about the infamous "666" bonus. Lavar can smoke a turd in Haydies for all I care....I'm a Skins fan - not a fan of pampered, egocentric, cry-babies.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Lotus;832730]This thread is getting to be pointless. Haters are gonna hate no matter what reasoned argument is offered.[/quote]

..and kool aid drinkers are going to drink kool aid no matter what reasoned argument is offered. I claimed that LL is exactly like Roy Williams. Nobody has countered or proved that statement false yet.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/roywilliams/2505013/profile]Roy Williams, SS at NFL.com[/url]

20 Ints for the career.


If me comparing Roy Williams to LL is hating, then call me a hater. It just doesn't suit well for them because they want to be able to call Roy Williams bad and terrible in pass defense, yet make the proclamation that LL is much better in coverage than RW. The reality of it is that they both mirror each other in skill set. Hard hitting safeties that were aggressive towards the ball, that lack the discipline to cover their pass responsibilities.



K, I'm done with this. Group hug! :grouphug:

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Lotus;832736]Your arguments are cherry picked. That is neither logical nor realistic. [/quote]

How so? My argument is he's another Roy Williams. How is that cherry picked?

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=NC_Skins;832740]..and kool aid drinkers are going to drink kool aid no matter what reasoned argument is offered. [B]I claimed that LL is exactly like Roy Williams. Nobody has countered or proved that statement false yet.[/B]

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/player/roywilliams/2505013/profile"]Roy Williams, SS at NFL.com[/URL]

20 Ints for the career.


If me comparing Roy Williams to LL is hating, then call me a hater. It just doesn't suit well for them because they want to be able to call Roy Williams bad and terrible in pass defense, yet make the proclamation that LL is much better in coverage than RW. The reality of it is that they both mirror each other in skill set. Hard hitting safeties that were aggressive towards the ball, that lack the discipline to cover their pass responsibilities.



K, I'm done with this. Group hug! :grouphug:[/quote]

lol and you haven't really done anything to prove your point either

hilarious

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=NC_Skins;832740]
K, I'm done with this. Group hug! :grouphug:[/quote]

I'm NOT done....only because it's a slow day at The Warpath. This is the only thread with any fire in the furnace.

Thanks for the hug, but I'm not much of a huger....affection makes me feel kind of weird. :cheeky-sm


:)

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

I'm done, not going to get sucked into this vortex any further

[IMG]http://www.bleachernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/gary-bussey-is-crazy.jpg[/IMG]

Oh and don't interpret this picture. Whatever you think my message is here, is wrong.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Mattyk;832744]lol and you haven't really done anything to prove your point either

hilarious[/quote]

..and you haven't proved yours either. Guess we are in the same sinking boat and have reached a stalemate.


SS HILARIOUS going down!! Man the life boats!

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

Bottom line is when LL is lined up with a decent coverage safety, the defense is better. Dhall, my oh so favorite CB is great when you have a good coverage CB like Los on the other side, so that a safety can zone to Dhall's side.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=hooskins;832757]Bottom line is when LL is lined up with a decent coverage safety, the defense is better. Dhall, my oh so favorite CB is great when you have a good coverage CB like Los on the other side, so that a safety can zone to Dhall's side.[/quote]

Agree.

Who feels better lining up with Doughty over Landry?

Any takers?

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

LL is a beast in the box.

I think everyone can agree with that.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=NC_Skins;832752]..and you haven't proved yours either. Guess we are in the same sinking boat and have reached a stalemate.


SS HILARIOUS going down!! Man the life boats![/quote]

at least we agree on something, or did I misread you again? ;)

So if you had to make a choice, RW in his prime or LL? Who are you taking?

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Mattyk;832758]Agree.

Who feels better lining up with Doughty over Landry?

Any takers?[/quote]

That would be the noob.....

:soapbox:

I prefer to root for people who are aren't prima donnas.

Furthermore, I really feel that the D played substantially better towards the end of the season - WITHOUT Landry. that's not an accident....a team plays better when it doesn't have to deal with distractions, like Haynesworth, or any of the host of other on or off the field issues we had to deal with.

Bone crushing hits are great....I get that...so is intimidation and "alligator arms," but when you are taking huge chances and letting people walk into the end-zone because you did not carry out your assignment, how does that help the team?

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

I like Doughty i think he'll do fine unless he has to deal with Andre Johnson, but AJ dont play for the G Men so we're in good shape!!! Go Reed Go!!! Clap clap!! Clap Clap Clap!!!

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;832783]I like Doughty i think he'll do fine unless he has to deal with Andre Johnson, but AJ dont play for the G Men so we're in good shape!!! Go Reed Go!!! Clap clap!! Clap Clap Clap!!![/quote]

Doughty is good when he plays up on the line...he sniffs out the ball pretty well. When he misses tackles it usually pretty bad. If he is in coverage its usually an epic fail.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;832783]I like Doughty i think he'll do fine unless he has to deal with Andre Johnson, but AJ dont play for the G Men so we're in good shape!!! Go Reed Go!!! Clap clap!! Clap Clap Clap!!![/quote]

Yeah, he "only" has to deal with Nicks and Manningham. No sweat.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

LL is nothing like Roy Willians....he is no ed reed but he sure isn't roy williams. LL has play FS and SS and the fact he hasn't gotten to the bro bowl isn't a knock on him.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Mattyk;832786]Yeah, he "only" has to deal with Nicks and Manningham. No sweat.[/quote]

Oh god...help us.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Chico23231;832784]Doughty is good when he plays up on the line...he sniffs out the ball pretty well. When he misses tackles it usually pretty bad. If he is in coverage its usually an epic fail.[/quote]

Thing I really like about Doughty, is that he's smart. he has a feel for the game.

#21 was his fan loooong before anyone even knew who he was. Not a bad endorsement. :food-smil

[quote=saden1;832791]Oh god...help us.[/quote]

Nicks and Manningham??? :doh:

[url=http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/03/injuries-are-slowing-down-nicks-and-manningham/]Injuries Are Slowing Down Nicks and Manningham - NYTimes.com[/url]

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

Doughty is a solid backup and special teamer. But let's not pretend he's anything more than what he is. Our D is better off with LL at full strength and in the starting lineup.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=polywog;832792]Thing I really like about Doughty, is that he's smart. he has a feel for the game.

#21 was his fan loooong before anyone even knew who he was. Not a bad endorsement. :food-smil



Nicks and Manningham??? :doh:

[url=http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/03/injuries-are-slowing-down-nicks-and-manningham/]Injuries Are Slowing Down Nicks and Manningham - NYTimes.com[/url][/quote]

That injury article is 5 weeks old. Given that Nicks and Manningham have been playing, we might presume that they are now feeling much better.

I'm with Saden. I'm not looking forward to Doughty on Nicks.

Re: Landry to miss opener vs Giants
 

[quote=Mattyk;832794]Doughty is a solid backup and special teamer. But let's not pretend he's anything more than what he is. Our D is better off with LL at full strength and in the starting lineup.[/quote]

The question was, who I would feel better lining up.

I can root for doughty....he's a likable guy who is a great dad, IMHO. Is he better? No, but there are other considerations to me than simply "winning" - like who I root for.

I would start Landry if I were the coach - I'm not the coach, just a fan.

I have other priorities that I deem even more important.