Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=musicmaster45;876905]Didn't know where to put this quote from rotoworld. Here is an RG3 tidbit and a little hope


Robert Griffin III - QB - Player

The Akron Beacon Journal expects the Browns to stay put at the No. 4 overall draft slot if they can't find a way to trade down.
Beat reporter Nate Ulrich points to GM Tom Heckert's tendency to "covet" draft picks, and believes the Browns will not trade up for Baylor QB Robert Griffin. NFL Network's Albert Breer and Jason La Canfora both think the Dolphins and Redskins are candidates to move up for Griffin. The Browns are known to be high on the 2011 Heisman winner, but may only get RG3 if he falls to No. 4.[/quote]

Draft database has the Redskins trading away their 6th overall pick, 2nd rounder and 4th rounder plus their 1st round pick in 2013 to St. Louis in exchange for the 2nd overall pick and a 5th round selection in 2012.

This is not a far-fetched scenario. This may be the price it takes to pay in order to get RG3.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=musicmaster45;876905]Didn't know where to put this quote from rotoworld. Here is an RG3 tidbit and a little hope


Robert Griffin III - QB - Player

The Akron Beacon Journal expects the Browns to stay put at the No. 4 overall draft slot if they can't find a way to trade down.
Beat reporter Nate Ulrich points to GM Tom Heckert's tendency to "covet" draft picks, and believes the Browns will not trade up for Baylor QB Robert Griffin. NFL Network's Albert Breer and Jason La Canfora both think the Dolphins and Redskins are candidates to move up for Griffin. The Browns are known to be high on the 2011 Heisman winner, but may only get RG3 if he falls to No. 4.[/quote]

Usually whenever I hear that a team will only take a QB if he falls to them it means that they only like him. This is opposed to the "love him" classification which states that teams in love with a QB will be willing to pull all the stops to make sure they get him.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;876958]Usually whenever I hear that a team will only take a QB if he falls to them it means that they only like him. This is opposed to the "love him" classification which states that teams in love with a QB will be willing to pull all the stops to make sure they get him.[/quote]


Yup. Shanahan loved Cutler. Shanahan loved Bradford. (tried to move up) It was obvious he didn't love Gabbert or Locker even though I do believe he would have picked Locker had he been there at our pick.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

I just wonder if MS might force the issue this year since he's missed out on a young QB the last 2 years. A guy like RG3 would definitely put butts in the seats and get the fans energized again.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

Latest chatter has Dolphins and Browns making a trade so top 5 is looking something like

1. Colts-Luck
2. Rams-Blackmon
3. Vikings-Kalil
4. Dolphins-RG3
5. Bucs-Claiborne

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;877021]Latest chatter has Dolphins and Browns making a trade so top 5 is looking something like

1. Colts-Luck
2. Rams-Blackmon
3. Vikings-Kalil
4. Dolphins-RG3
5. Bucs-Claiborne[/quote]That top five is like a worst case scenario for Redskins fans, is it not? If no trade down is possible (and I'm not sure who anyone would trade up for), the pick is Richardson, right? That's not Alshon Jeffery or Michael Floyd territory yet, those would both be pretty extreme reaches giving the variability of first round receivers (after the top guy, typically).

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;877022]That top five is like a worst case scenario for Redskins fans, is it not? If no trade down is possible (and I'm not sure who anyone would trade up for), the pick is Richardson, right? That's not Alshon Jeffery or Michael Floyd territory yet, those would both be pretty extreme reaches giving the variability of first round receivers (after the top guy, typically).[/quote]

Yeah it's not the best case really. There are a few possibilities

1. If the Bucs take Richardson, which is also rumored, then Claiborne to the Redskins

2. OL such as Martin or Rieff (probably high for both so a trade down would be best, but Martin in particular is mentioned a lot as a strong possibility for the Redskins. Not DeCastro so much...which would make you think it's actually probably him they'd target)

3. Luke Kuechly (I'll just tell you I've heard his name brought up. But I don't buy it. Only if Fletcher doesn't return, but he will...so again I don't see it. And 6 is too high for him I think)

4. Kirkpatrick-much less likely now with the drug bust. Any other team probably not an issue, for the Redskins considering recent events not likely

So much of this is really dependent of course on FA but my guess is it would be one of the OL, assuming no movement

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

I can't see Martin or Reiff improving our passing efficiency or rushing efficiency by as much in the first three years as Richardson would, even though for sure they would both play more total snaps than Richardson would. But that's okay: with Helu and Royster on the team for at least the next two years, I'm not worried.

I really like David DeCastro, but if we were to break the bank for Carl Nicks (and make him a ZBS OT as he was in college instead of a man OG), I think that's a better option for the OL.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

Oh well, trade up three spots and none of this is an issue.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

IF fins & browns trading is really in the works, I would be surprised if the Rams don't get into that action. The rams can really parlay that #2 into an awful lot. Even if Miami knows that the rams don't want RGIII, the very real possibility of other teams offering for that pick to get him makes it worth a lot.

We are as desperate as anybody to get a franchise qb, but I feel good about Allen & Shanny making a deal.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

And I don't think it will be Floyd or Jeffrey at 6 (if the Browns trade down one of those guys will probably be a Brown)

And there's still the possibility, though perhaps less likely now, that's it's Tannehill at 6

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=freddyg12;877029]IF fins & browns trading is really in the works, I would be surprised if the Rams don't get into that action. The rams can really parlay that #2 into an awful lot. Even if Miami knows that the rams don't want RGIII, the very real possibility of other teams offering for that pick to get him makes it worth a lot.

We are as desperate as anybody to get a franchise qb, but I feel good about Allen & Shanny making a deal.[/quote]

Sometimes being in a prime position like the Rams are is a detriment. Perhaps they're asking price will come down but most of what I've heard indicates that they want something along the lines of 5-6 highs picks and possibly players, so something like 2012 1st, 2012 2nd, 2013 1st, 2013 3rd, 2014 3rd and John Beck. That's a lot to ask...especially asking us to give up John Beck.

So they may price themselves out if they don't bring their demand down. On the other hand, they may hold their ground and refuse to bring their demand down

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

The Skins have to remember we are only 4 picks away from the Lambs, we can't give up to much to trade up, they want our picks just as much as we want their pick.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;877031]And I don't think it will be Floyd or Jeffrey at 6 (if the Browns trade down one of those guys will probably be a Brown)

And there's still the possibility, though perhaps less likely now, that's it's Tannehill at 6[/quote]I don't think Tannehill even begins to look good until the last five picks of the first round.

I think I would look at Foles around no. 6, and I would look at Osweiler (though I think that's ultimately too high for a developmental talent in Osweiler) because they offer me more value. The other guy who seems to make a lot of sense as a potential franchise guy is Kellen Moore, because I know exactly what I'm getting in him as passer.

I understand the inherent bias in scouting with a guys tools: if tools (size, strength, quickness, arm) didn't matter at all, we wouldn't need scouts, we could do everything with modern analytics. So the scouting bias against smaller guys with weaker arms is understandable. But when you see guys like Matt Ryan and Sam Bradford get taken in the first three picks, I'm not sure why it would be so unreasonable for a team to consider Kellen Moore in the first round. He's the best pure pocket passer in a draft that includes Andrew Luck.

As much as a love Robert Griffin's pro prospects (and I think he falls just shy of being a "first overall" type prospect), I think if given the exact same opportunities as a high first rounder, Moore could have the better career of the two. And I really like Griffin coming out.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

Big Kellen Moore fan, but I can't imagine him going in the first 2 rounds really

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;877039]Big Kellen Moore fan, but I can't imagine him going in the first 2 rounds really[/quote]Not unless there is a paradigm shift in the NFL in the next four months.

I mean, the thing with Moore is going to come even after he is drafted: there will always be someone on the roster along with him who looks like he could do the job better. And if he's teammates with Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers, then that perception is probably correct.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;877032]Sometimes being in a prime position like the Rams are is a detriment. Perhaps they're asking price will come down but most of what I've heard indicates that they want something along the lines of 5-6 highs picks and possibly players, so something like 2012 1st, 2012 2nd, 2013 1st, 2013 3rd, 2014 3rd and John Beck. That's a lot to ask...especially asking us to give up John Beck.

So they may price themselves out if they don't bring their demand down. On the other hand, they may hold their ground and refuse to bring their demand down[/quote]

True, but if the Fins go all in & trade w/Browns that really sets the market. The rams then are in a position to say 'we like our pick at #2 & you will have to do significantly better than what the Fins gave up to get it.' If they truly like their options at 2, which I suspect they would - Blackmon or Kalil is ideal for them, then they win either way & can hold that pick to the last minute.

Ultimately, it would take a lot of intel for the Fins to be confident that they could get RGIII w/the 4th pick. I mean would somebody w/the rams & vikes really assure Miami that they weren't picking RGIII? or that they wouldn't trade the pick away?

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=freddyg12;877045]True, but if the Fins go all in & trade w/Browns that really sets the market. The rams then are in a position to say 'we like our pick at #2 & you will have to do significantly better than what the Fins gave up to get it.' If they truly like their options at 2, which I suspect they would - Blackmon or Kalil is ideal for them, then they win either way & can hold that pick to the last minute.

Ultimately, it would take a lot of intel for the Fins to be confident that they could get RGIII w/the 4th pick. I mean would somebody w/the rams & vikes really assure Miami that they weren't picking RGIII? or that they wouldn't trade the pick away?[/quote]

Well to be clear, a trade wouldn't happen between Miami and Cleveland before draft day, when the Browns are on the clock. Just starting the conversation now

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;877032]Sometimes being in a prime position like the Rams are is a detriment. Perhaps they're asking price will come down but most of what I've heard indicates that they want something along the lines of 5-6 highs picks and possibly players, so something like 2012 1st, 2012 2nd, 2013 1st, 2013 3rd, 2014 3rd and John Beck. That's a lot to ask...especially asking us to give up John Beck.

So they may price themselves out if they don't bring their demand down. On the other hand, they may hold their ground and refuse to bring their demand down[/quote]

Nobody is worth that much. If I'm having to give up a player, then I'll give them someone who could still be serviceable but someone who we haven't had to rely on (sorry Chris Cooley) and next year's #1, but I don't think the Redskins need or should give up THAT much to get RG III. As matter of fact, I'm not even sure the Redskins would need to move up THAT much. Everybody is saying the Browns are suitors for Griffin, but that might not be the case at all. They could essentially trade with Washington, pick up extra picks, and the 'skins wouldn't have to give up a kings ransom like they would with the Rams.

There's always a chance that one of the other QB hungry teams like Miami can leap frog up, but I'm not sure any team is going to take the bait.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

Let's say we don't get RGIII but draft Trent Richardson.

Trent Richardson
Roy Helu
Evan Royster

Good group and while I love Roy Helu he isn't Trent Richardson but will Shanny ever draft a RB 1st round? Even though Richardson could have a Adrian Peterson type rookie impact.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;877034]The Skins have to remember we are only 4 picks away from the Lambs, we can't give up to much to trade up, they want our picks just as much as we want their pick.[/quote]

Problem with that is that Jacksonsville or Cleveland would be more than happy to leap frog the Skins and get RG3.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;877048]Well to be clear, [B]a trade wouldn't happen between Miami and Cleveland before draft day,[/B] when the Browns are on the clock. [/quote]

That is, unless Joe Gibbs is running your team. :doh:

[url=http://was.scout.com/2/371601.html]Scout.com: Draft Trade: Why?[/url]



God it's moves like this that made me hate Gibbs 2.0 :spank:

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;877057]Let's say we don't get RGIII but draft Trent Richardson.

Trent Richardson
Roy Helu
Evan Royster

Good group and while I love Roy Helu he isn't Trent Richardson but will Shanny ever draft a RB 1st round? Even though Richardson could have a Adrian Peterson type rookie impact.[/quote]


I've said it before, if we draft a RB in this upcoming draft with the two good backs we currently have, I'm driving to DC and slapping the shit out of Shanahan. (both of them)

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;877060]I've said it before, if we draft a RB in this upcoming draft with the two good backs we currently have, I'm driving to DC and slapping the shit out of Shanahan. (both of them)[/quote]

I hear you and feel the same way but Trent Richardson isn't just "any" running back prospect.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;877063]I hear you and feel the same way but Trent Richardson isn't just "any" running back prospect.[/quote]


We could get a gold mine for a team wanting to trade up. Shanahan has proved that you can plug in any RB in his system and they be productive. This is a QB driven league now. If our guy is off the board and Richardson is still up there, I would love to be able to trade down for a team wanting him.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;877064]We could get a gold mine for a team wanting to trade up. Shanahan has proved that you can plug in any RB in his system and they be productive. This is a QB driven league now. If our guy is off the board and Richardson is still up there, I would love to be able to trade down for a team wanting him.[/quote]If someone's going to trade a crap load of picks to trade up for Richardson, they actually have to 1) love Richardson, and 2) believe enough teams love Richardson enough where he won't make it where they pick.

And despite being the best available player after the top five, there's people who truly believe that when it comes down to it, Richardson is going to make it all the way to no. 17 when the Bengals pick.

If that's even a remotely accurate assessment of the situation, the Redskins won't be able to get anything for Richardson at no. 6, because any team that wants him can also go to 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, or 13 to get him.

The Redskins should take him though if he's the top offensive playmaker on their board, position be damned. Still, if they trade up to third, none of this is an issue because they can grab Griffin (in all likelihood) or Blackmon/Kalil in a worst case.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

The Portis-Bailey trade was horrible for us, I said it when it happened.. You just don't trade a True Shutdown Corner for a RB

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;877064]We could get a gold mine for a team wanting to trade up. Shanahan has proved that you can plug in any RB in his system and they be productive. This is a QB driven league now. If our guy is off the board and Richardson is still up there, I would love to be able to trade down for a team wanting him.[/quote]

He will be there but if you can't trade down I say draft him of course he's plan C but out of all the guys we are linked to skill position wise: Blackmon, Claiborne, RGIII, Richardson. He's the only one I see being there in every scenario.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;877067]The Portis-Bailey trade was horrible for us, I said it when it happened.. You just don't trade a True Shutdown Corner for a RB[/quote]

The 2nd rounder attached to it made it worse but what does that have to do with anything??

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;877068]He will be there but if you can't trade down I say draft him of course he's plan C but out of all the guys we are linked to skill position wise: Blackmon, Claiborne, RGIII, Richardson. He's the only one I see being there in every scenario.[/quote]

I don't think Shanny can survive if he did such a thing, and looking at his drafting history, I don't expect him to draft a RB at that spot. I think he would go QB/CB/OL/WR before he went with RB, regardless of how good that RB rated.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

NC, what if we drafted Trent Richardson in the first round, then used our 2nd rounder on Nick Foles and somehow acquired an additional 2nd rounder and drafted Mohamed Sanu or Dwight Jones. Would you still be upset???

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;877070]The 2nd rounder attached to it made it worse but what does that have to do with anything??[/quote]

just talking about trades lol

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;877072]NC, what if we drafted Trent Richardson in the first round, then used our 2nd rounder on Nick Foles and somehow acquired an additional 2nd rounder and drafted Mohamed Sanu or Dwight Jones. Would you still be upset???[/quote]


I would never make it to the 2nd round because I would have already slit my wrists once he drafted Richardson. :laughing-


RBs are a dime a dozen in the NFL these days. I really don't think a RB is warranted in the top 10 these days since many squads like the two back running systems. I would rather them go OL over RB at the #6. It would be different if I didn't think Helu and Royster could produce.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;877059]That is, unless Joe Gibbs is running your team. :doh:

[URL="http://was.scout.com/2/371601.html"]Scout.com: Draft Trade: Why?[/URL]



God it's moves like this that made me hate Gibbs 2.0 :spank:[/quote]

Doing it before draft day did make it questionable, otherwise I always liked that trade. Of course, we know now that JC is not on par w/A. Rodgers & maybe not even Alex Smith (though until this year his career was not much different than Smith's).

That said, since they thought JC was the qb of the future, giving up a 3rd & 4th wasn't that high a price. It was actually the most forward thinking moves of Gibbs 2. In other trades we gave up too much for questionable return. When drafting a qb, it was worth making the move he did. If JC was still our QB & we were winning like Alex Smith is now, we'd call that trade a great move.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;877071]I don't think Shanny can survive if he did such a thing, and looking at his drafting history, I don't expect him to draft a RB at that spot. I think he would go QB/CB/OL/WR before he went with RB, regardless of how good that RB rated.[/quote]

I know but I see the draft going like this right now:

Colts- Luck
Rams- Blackmon
Vikings- Kalil
Browns- RGIII
Bucs- Claiborne
Redskins- Richardson?, Martin?, (doubt it), Kirkpatrick?, (not likely)

From a playmaking standpoint he makes sense from a need standpoint not so much.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;877074]I would never make it to the 2nd round because I would have already slit my wrists once he drafted Richardson. :laughing-


RBs are a dime a dozen in the NFL these days. I really don't think a RB is warranted in the top 10 these days since many squads like the two back running systems. I would rather them go OL over RB at the #6. It would be different if I didn't think Helu and Royster could produce.[/quote]

True but he is the best RB prospect since AP, and while he is NOT my first choice I wouldn't be too pissed if we got him.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;877048]Well to be clear, a trade wouldn't happen between Miami and Cleveland before draft day, when the Browns are on the clock. Just starting the conversation now[/quote]

Understood, I'm just pointing out that it should be fairly obvious that the skins & other teams will likely covet the Rams pick if interest in RGIII is as high as expected. I only see a Cleveland/Miami trade going down if the Rams keep their pick.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=freddyg12;877079]Understood, I'm just pointing out that it should be fairly obvious that the skins & other teams will likely covet the Rams pick if interest in RGIII is as high as expected. I only see a Cleveland/Miami trade going down if the Rams keep their pick.[/quote]I don't think the Rams are going to receive a real serious offer for the no. 2 pick that comes from any organization besides the Redskins. For every pick that Griffin slides, I think the realistic offers for his services will get hotter and hotter.

Right now, I think its safe to say he's coming off the board at 3rd or 4th. That could change, and it's impossible to say who will pull the trigger to make the pick, but when was the last time someone traded for a top two pick? 2001? That was 11 years ago.

Eli Manning was traded in 2004, but that's only a relevant comparison if the Rams are ready to pull the trigger on Griffin to really reap the benefits of a trade. And that's the scenario that would throw everything I believe off: the Rams taking Robert Griffin and then either shopping him or Bradford. But if the Rams aren't going to flirt with the idea of picking Griffin, then they'll never get close to a deal for the second pick.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;877076]I know but I see the draft going like this right now:

Colts- Luck
Rams- Blackmon
Vikings- Kalil
Browns- RGIII
Bucs- Claiborne
Redskins- Richardson?, Martin?, (doubt it), Kirkpatrick?, (not likely)

[B]From a playmaking standpoint he makes sense from a need standpoint not so much.[/B][/quote]Playmaking [B]is[/B] the need, right.

Richardson would bring it in an unconventional form, but I would apply 'beggars can't be choosers' here.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;877083]I don't think the Rams are going to receive a real serious offer for the no. 2 pick that comes from any organization besides the Redskins. For every pick that Griffin slides, I think the realistic offers for his services will get hotter and hotter.

Right now, I think its safe to say he's coming off the board at 3rd or 4th. That could change, and it's impossible to say who will pull the trigger to make the pick, [B]but when was the last time someone traded for a top two pick? 2001? That was 11 years ago.[/B]

Eli Manning was traded in 2004, but that's only a relevant comparison if the Rams are ready to pull the trigger on Griffin to really reap the benefits of a trade. And that's the scenario that would throw everything I believe off: the Rams taking Robert Griffin and then either shopping him or Bradford. [B]But if the Rams aren't going to flirt with the idea of picking Griffin, then they'll never get close to a deal for the second pick[/B].[/quote]

1) 11 years ago & under a different cba, the new rookie scale is much more cap friendly for teams to get top 10 picks

2) I'm looking at it the other way around, the Rams hold the clear shot at getting RGIII regardless of whether they want him. If you are the Browns, Redskins, Fins, etc. & you want him, you need to trade up to get him. If in fact the redskins make an offer to the rams or any other teams, that starts the bidding once word gets out to other teams. The skins will have reason to make an offer if they believe Miami or other teams are trying to trade to #4 & vice versa.

I don't think the Rams will have to even flirt w/the idea of taking RGIII, they just have to flirt w/the idea that they will trade the pick to a team that will.