Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872770]I'll probably say this a lot between now and mid-March, but Chad Henne is younger, more proven and has better tools than Matt Flynn. See for yourself:

[URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HennCh01.htm"]Chad Henne NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlynMa00.htm"]Matt Flynn NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/URL]

I'm not even sure I understand the argument for Flynn over Henne. We don't know how good Flynn is? The Packers are better at developing QBs than the Dolphins? A mixture of weak reasoning?

Henne should get at least one and a half times what Flynn gets in guaranteed money.[/quote]


Well Chad Henne is younger, but only by 12 days.... so im not sure if that really counts. Also im not sure what you mean by more "tools"? I do agree that he's more proven.

The thing that i like about Flynn is that, to me, the Packers offenive seems very simular to ours. Maybe im wrong, but the biggest difference to me seems to be the play calling and that GB seems more relient on their TE. The Dolphine's offense isnt really all that simular to ours. I know they had a new cordinator this year so im not really sure what type of offensive they have/had.

It just seems to me, given the simularities between our offenses, Flynn should be highly considered.... as long as he doesnt get franchised and requires a trade to move. But im with you, Id also be happy with the younger Henne. Both should be and likely are on the Redskins radar.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=30gut;872817]I think either QB has the skillset to start or sit.
I'm not into predicting whether a QB can/will start.
Its largely dependent on the volition of the staff that drafts them.

Yeah, that's one of the reason why I think Tannehill is a better prospect.

Que paso?

I don't follow your reasoning on why you think Jones is a better fit?
Tannehill knows the offense, Tannehill is more mobile and can extend plays.[/quote]

I'm with you all around on this and with Tripp on the points of agreement.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=mooby;872781]The Tebow lovefest is over and they're not even eliminated from the playoffs?[/quote]

.500-sub .500 teams are dangerous early in the playoffs. The 7-9 Seahawks won last year against NOLA. 8-8 Chargers beat Indy in 2008. All the while Minnesota and St. Louis both won their first round games in 2004 as 8-8 teams.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=30gut;872817]I think either QB has the skillset to start or sit.
I'm not into predicting whether a QB can/will start.
Its largely dependent on the volition of the staff that drafts them.

Yeah, that's one of the reason why I think Tannehill is a better prospect.

Que paso?

I don't follow your reasoning on why you think Jones is a better fit?
Tannehill knows the offense, Tannehill is more mobile and can extend plays.[/quote]Well, Tannehill trying to push the ball down the field, even into wide open spaces in zone coverage, really leaves a lot to be desired. And that's what you're asked to do in this offense. Maybe we're seeing an inconsistent mechanical issue that's causing Tannehill this trouble. Tannehill's tendency to throw blind deeper into the progression isn't a dealbreaker for me, but it's a red flag.

The potential dealbreaker on Tannehill in this offense will be to what degree his athleticism helps or limits his pocket passing ability. At Texas A&M, Tannehill proved he could throw underneath on the run with good fundamental mechanics, but the downfield throws were not ones he made, particularly when they moved the pocket with him. If he progresses into an elite pocket passer with the ability to move with the football, that makes him one of the best players in the league at the position. If he progresses into a quick triggered player from the pocket who never learns to use or trust his eyes, he won't last very long.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=skinsguy;872810]Only a couple days removed from the last game of the regular season, and the rumors of where these quarterbacks are going to land next season are already mind boggling. I think it's a stretch that Denver will be able to move up to #2 to land RG III. I don't see that happening at all.

I'm almost expecting the Redskins to merely grab a better backup QB through free agency, use their draft picks to continue building depth, and living with Rex one more year in hopes of landing Barkley next year. Might not be such a bad idea.[/quote]

It is a bad idea because Barkley will be pick number 1

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872823]Well, Tannehill trying to push the ball down the field, even into wide open spaces in zone coverage, really leaves a lot to be desired. And that's what you're asked to do in this offense. Maybe we're seeing an inconsistent mechanical issue that's causing Tannehill this trouble. Tannehill's tendency to throw blind deeper into the progression isn't a dealbreaker for me, but it's a red flag.

The potential dealbreaker on Tannehill in this offense will be to what degree his athleticism helps or limits his pocket passing ability. At Texas A&M, Tannehill proved he could throw underneath on the run with good fundamental mechanics, but the downfield throws were not ones he made, particularly when they moved the pocket with him. If he progresses into an elite pocket passer with the ability to move with the football, that makes him one of the best players in the league at the position. If he progresses into a quick triggered player from the pocket who never learns to use or trust his eyes, he won't last very long.[/quote]

I'm right there with you. Tannehill has looked good at times but never for a whole game. He has a good arm but his ability to read college D is shaky and he is about as consistent throwing the ball as Locker.

At most trade down and get another 2nd round pick and maybe another late round pick and hope he is still there in the teens.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Lotus;872815]Although I seem to be the only one here arguing for grabbing Tannehill or Jones at #6, this is why. I would not trade back any later than #8. Otherwise the Fins or Seahawks may grab our guy, thus meaning we've missed our guy for the second straight year. Reach be damned - get your guy.[/quote]

Excellent point.

Sidenote: Where is Slingin' Sammy 33?

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=SmootSmack;872851]Excellent point.

Sidenote: Where is Slingin' Sammy 33?[/quote]


Out researching GOP candidates. :cheeky-sm

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

If we take Jones, we should pick up Tebow when the Broncos cut him, so Tebow can run the offense in the Redzone since Jones does not know how.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872823]Well, Tannehill trying to [I][B]push[/B][/I] the ball down the field, even into wide open spaces in zone coverage, really leaves a lot to be desired. And that's what you're asked to do in this offense.[/quote]I'm a little confused by what you mean here.
Do you think Tannehill can't drive the ball with velocity on intermediate throws? Or do you mean the deep ball on a go-route?

Tannehill's ability to drive the ball with velocity on intermediate routes is a strength to my eye.
His deep ball touch doesn't match his ability to drive the ball, I would rate his deep ball as average.

[quote]Tannehill's tendency to throw blind deeper into the progression isn't a dealbreaker for me, but it's a red flag.[/quote]Don't understand what you mean by 'throw blind'.
But, Tannehill follows his progressions as well as any other top prospect considering his level of experience.
It also helps that he's making his progressions from a pro-style offense that is a direct variant of Kyle's offense.

[quote]The potential dealbreaker on Tannehill in this offense will be to what degree his athleticism helps or limits his pocket passing ability.[/quote]Completely disagree.
There is no way to spin athleticism into a negative.
Athleticism doesn't limit a prospect in anyway, its only a strength.

[quote]At Texas A&M, Tannehill proved he could throw underneath on the run with good fundamental mechanics, but the downfield throws were not ones he made, particularly when they moved the pocket with him.[/quote]Disagree completely.
One of the reason I followed Tannehill last year was his arm talent.
Tannehill can drive the ball with velocity both inside and outside the pocket.
I would think this is evident in any A&M game.
The playcalling's reliance (often times to fault) on Tannehill's ability to throw deep comebacks and deep outs are a testament to his ability to drive the ball downfield.

I'm still trying to understand your view of Jones vs Tannehill as fit for this offense.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

Here's a good non-TV feed view of some of the A&M vs OU (2010)

[YT]dgQGGErIJZg[/YT]

I just wanted to point out a few throws:

@1:58
good balanced footwork, set-up quick on rhythm and deliver an accurate ball under duress from a blitz in his own endzone
@2:24
flashes the arm talent and playmaking ability that makes him a top prospect: extends the play moving to his left, resets then drives an intermediate ball w/ velocity into the 2nd/3rd level of the secondary
@4:55
works a full field progression moving right to left, finds his backside (probably 3rd option) and delivery a good ball on time on target
@6:06
again working full field progression from right to left, finds backside WR on a streak delivers accurate deep ball

These are examples of what I see and like from Tannehill skillset that makes him an attractive option for this team/offense

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

I think it comes down to Flynn or RG III. If we end up signing Flynn, we should finally be able to draft an elite WR in Blackmon.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

nick foles or bust! lol.. i think we will make a run a Flynn tho yes... agree with it? eh maybe, he's unproven but he's already 100x better than John Beck.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=#21Taylor4Ever;872872]I think it comes down to Flynn or RG III. If we end up signing Flynn, we should finally be able to draft an elite WR in Blackmon.[/quote]

Or get one In free agency. I like Bowe. I think there's some smoke and mirrors with Colston. Brees can make any WR look like a pro- bowler.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=30gut;872857]I just wanted to point out a few throws:

@1:58
good balanced footwork, set-up quick on rhythm and deliver an accurate ball under duress from a blitz in his own endzone
@2:24
flashes the arm talent and playmaking ability that makes him a top prospect: extends the play moving to his left, resets then drives an intermediate ball w/ velocity into the 2nd/3rd level of the secondary
@4:55
works a full field progression moving right to left, finds his backside (probably 3rd option) and delivery a good ball on time on target
@6:06
again working full field progression from right to left, finds backside WR on a streak delivers accurate deep ball

These are examples of what I see and like from Tannehill skillset that makes him an attractive option for this team/offense[/quote]I like how quickly Tannehill moves through his progressions when the concepts are simple. He typically doesn't spend time on covered receivers, which makes him different than Foles. I would suggest though that he's not doing full field reads so much as he's just using his eyes to move a free safety against an expected coverage. Which, of course, is an NFL skill that quarterbacks need.

Tannehill had some more troubling film down the stretch this season (2011), but at least that seven game run in 2010 culminating in the Cotton Bowl gives you a good glimpse of what you have when the player is well coached to use his eyes arm and feet first.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[YT]oXDEzCf3C7Y[/YT]

I really like how Tannehill is controlling the line of scrimmage here. He's got LSU jumping all over the place. He didn't throw the ball particularly well in this game, but he's clearly got those innate game management skills.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

I really honestly would notmind having Tim Tebow ON this team in camp fighti ng for a job here.
[/fanboy]

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

and Tripp I agree... i believe Tannehill has the moxy, ability to handle pressure, and cerebral need to suceed in this league.
a few weapons, good run game and decent line... i think h'ed shine.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

I think we should contact Patrick Ramsey and see if he has completed Memory Eradication 101.

Seriously, 4 months of this talk is going to get exhausting!

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

I forgot to mention my nit-picks with Tannehill:

o I noticed a tendency where he lets his arm and elbow drop which lowers his throwing height and combined with his regular use of a 3/4 release imo results in more passes being batted down then should happen for a 6'4 QB

I would prefer if he would keep his arm and elbow up and fully extend his arm overhead.

I also feel like he lacks the confidence of trusting in his athleticism/playmaking.
I think he passes up the chance to adlib and make a good play in favor of sticking with a play that the defense has covered. (b/c of Sherman's predictable playmaking)
But, I think that confidence will come with experience.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wish Russell Wilson wasn't 5'11

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

I'd pay a high price to get Sam Bradford. Love him.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Meks;872893]I really honestly would notmind having Tim Tebow ON this team in camp fighti ng for a job here.
[/fanboy][/quote]

As an H-Back or TE? LOL.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Schneed10;872901]I'd pay a high price to get Sam Bradford. Love him.[/quote]

I agree. And as for the people mentioning Tebow, I'm a die hard florida gator fan. LOVED Tebow in college, thought he was one of the greatest college football players of all time. But I knew that he'd be awful in the NFL. Well he hasn't been awful; yet. But the more and more teams are gonna figure him out, The sooner he's gonna suck. The patriots, lions, and bills have started to show how to stop the option attack and how to beat him with man coverage and pressure. Next year tebow will be lucky if he gets through 6 games as a starter.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Ruhskins;872903]As an H-Back or TE? LOL.[/quote]

You laugh but I think Tebow could be a beast at TE. I wonder if , at some point, he might consider a position switch.

Someone mentioned Tebow as a Red Zone QB specialist. Why not? He could become the NFL's first TE and Inside the 5-Yard Line Red Zone QB Specialist.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

^ indeed...

and yea Rush i'd find a way for the kid to get on the field, be it any time at QB or not..

but I'd still wish someone would give him more time to develop.. i'd like to see where he is as a qb in 3 years..

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872884][YT]oXDEzCf3C7Y[/YT]

I really like how Tannehill is controlling the line of scrimmage here. He's got LSU jumping all over the place. He didn't throw the ball particularly well in this game, but he's clearly got those innate game management skills.[/quote]

Which is impressive considering he was a starting WR during his freshman and sophomore years at A&M. In fact they mention in that highlight that he's the 5th leading receiver in A&M history. If he's this good at QB now with such limited experience, I'm sure he's got lots of room to improve.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

Foles is the 3rd best QB in this draft, not Jones, not Tannehill. In my opinion he's the one to watch.

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1004259-2012-nfl-draft-nick-foles-and-more-seniors-who-will-help-stock-during-offseason]2012 NFL Draft: Nick Foles and More Seniors Who Will Help Stock During Offseason | Bleacher Report[/url]

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GMScud;872922]Which is impressive considering he was a starting WR during his freshman and sophomore years at A&M. In fact they mention in that highlight that he's the 5th leading receiver in A&M history. If he's this good at QB now with such limited experience, I'm sure he's got lots of room to improve.[/quote]The biggest thing with Tannehill is figuring out why he regressed at the end of his senior year as a passer. I don't have an answer, just a question. Could be a team-oriented issue. It's just when you have a guy who hasn't played a lot of college football at quarterback, and he's beating ranked teams right away because the position is a natural fit, you don't expect him to struggle with more experience. Tannehill did.

One thing I can't deny is that he faced some really good defensive teams in a short time as a starting QB at Texas A&M.

The other thing that's weird with Tannehill: in the first half of 2011, he rushed for 231 yards on 29 carries and three TDs. In the second half of 2011, he rushed for 75 yards on 29 carries and one TD.

Tannehill was a completely different player in the second half of the season, and I have no idea why that was

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;872924]Foles is the 3rd best QB in this draft, not Jones, not Tannehill. In my opinion he's the one to watch.

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1004259-2012-nfl-draft-nick-foles-and-more-seniors-who-will-help-stock-during-offseason]2012 NFL Draft: Nick Foles and More Seniors Who Will Help Stock During Offseason | Bleacher Report[/url][/quote]

Dude link was ok. I was reading the part at the bottom about Jared Crick. I know he is not a need but being a CornHusker fan and next year a Husker i watch him and man he would be like the DE version of Kerrigan. Never gives up and is quite talented.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872927]The biggest thing with Tannehill is figuring out why he regressed at the end of his senior year as a passer. I don't have an answer, just a question. Could be a team-oriented issue. It's just when you have a guy who hasn't played a lot of college football at quarterback, and he's beating ranked teams right away because the position is a natural fit, you don't expect him to struggle with more experience. Tannehill did.

One thing I can't deny is that he faced some really good defensive teams in a short time as a starting QB at Texas A&M.

The other thing that's weird with Tannehill: in the first half of 2011, he rushed for 231 yards on 29 carries and three TDs. In the second half of 2011, he rushed for 75 yards on 29 carries and one TD.

[B]Tannehill was a completely different player in the second half of the season, and I have no idea why that was[/B][/quote]

Well, A&M pretty much fell apart as a team in the second half of the season. The same season which resulted in Mike Sherman's firing. Looking at [URL="http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/232059/ryan-tannehill"]his split stats[/URL], his comp % and rushing yards went down and his INTs went up a bit, but the passing yards and TD passes were still there.

I haven't watched much film of Tannehill, so I have no idea why he had a drop off either. All I know is when a team implodes they way they did (losing 4 of 5 down the stretch) and the coach gets fired, lots of things are going wrong. How much of Tannehill's struggles fall squarely on him? Again, your guess is as good as mine.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

Isn't there a veteran backup out there that put up some astronomical numbers a few years back in college? Had a funny name, Colt something? Maybe he's worth a look.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;872717]My biggest fear with Flynn is not that he'll be the next Kolb but rather the next Brees. An UFA franchise changing QB that was there for the taking but passed up by us.[/quote]
Brees was a good QB before he banged up his shoulder and SD decided to play craps with the Manning pick. Flynn is a...former 7th(?) round pick who has played two NFL games well and had a decent college career. Not the same thing.

Flynn is going to cost too much for what he really is worth.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;872832]It is a bad idea because Barkley will be pick number 1[/quote]

Not a bad idea if the 'skins finish with the worst record in the league. Although they'll also be looking for another coach as well if that happens.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872927]The biggest thing with Tannehill is figuring out why he regressed at the end of his senior year as a passer. I don't have an answer, just a question. Could be a team-oriented issue. It's just when you have a guy who hasn't played a lot of college football at quarterback, and he's beating ranked teams right away because the position is a natural fit, you don't expect him to struggle with more experience. Tannehill did.

One thing I can't deny is that he faced some really good defensive teams in a short time as a starting QB at Texas A&M.

The other thing that's weird with Tannehill: in the first half of 2011, he rushed for 231 yards on 29 carries and three TDs. In the second half of 2011, he rushed for 75 yards on 29 carries and one TD.

Tannehill was a completely different player in the second half of the season, and I have no idea why that was[/quote]
Not to be trivial but perhaps he was injured in some way...or did he lose some weapons due to injury? If there aren't any extenuating circumstances than I too would be concerned with a sudden unexplained decline in play.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GMScud;872933]Well, A&M pretty much fell apart as a team in the second half of the season. The same season which resulted in Mike Sherman's firing. Looking at [URL="http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/232059/ryan-tannehill"]his split stats[/URL], his comp % and rushing yards went down and his INTs went up a bit, but the passing yards and TD passes were still there.

I haven't watched much film of Tannehill, so I have no idea why he had a drop off either. All I know is when a team implodes they way they did (losing 4 of 5 down the stretch) and the coach gets fired, lots of things are going wrong. How much of Tannehill's struggles fall squarely on him? Again, your guess is as good as mine.[/quote]

My sense is that your are on to something with the team implosion. Although I haven't studied video - I just watched games - my anecdotal sense is that the A&M offensive line became more disorganized, distracted, whatever, but stopped providing Tannehill with the protection and running lanes that he previously enjoyed. As well, the defense lost its moxie, which meant that Tannehill played more from behind and felt more pressure to make big plays downfield. Just watching games made me feel that Tannehill did not lose much off of his individual game but instead lost the support of his surrounding cast.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

saw Tannehill against OU and I thought Landry outplayed himIMO.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=FRPLG;872962]Not to be trivial but perhaps he was injured in some way...or did he lose some weapons due to injury? If there aren't any extenuating circumstances than I too would be concerned with a sudden unexplained decline in play.[/quote]

[quote=Lotus;872976]My sense is that your are on to something with the team implosion. Although I haven't studied video - I just watched games - my anecdotal sense is that the A&M offensive line became more disorganized, distracted, whatever, but stopped providing Tannehill with the protection and running lanes that he previously enjoyed. As well, the defense lost its moxie, which meant that Tannehill played more from behind and felt more pressure to make big plays downfield. Just watching games made me feel that Tannehill did not lose much off of his individual game but instead lost the support of his surrounding cast.[/quote]

Both of these would make sense. I'm having trouble finding a lot of tape from the last six or so Texas A&M games so it's just as hard for me to say "this is what was happening before, this is what is happening now."

I will say this, his splits (see GMScud's link or [URL="http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ryan-tannehill-1/gamelog/"]click here[/URL]) in the first half of the 2011 season were almost identical to the numbers he posted in 2010. It was clear he was the same QB then as he was before.

The problem is that Tannehill didn't play quarterback enough to say which one was the real Ryan Tannehill. He looks pretty good on film from the first 12 starts of his career. But in live games he was clearly more limited down the stretch. I'm trying to get my hands on game cut ups from late-season Tannehill, but in the mean time if anything shows up on YouTube, I'll pay it forward.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

Oddly, the same thing that happened to Tannehill also happened to Dominique Davis as soon as I said I liked him as a prospect: he really started to struggle down the stretch with his reads and throws. Against very mediocre college defenses.

I can't find an ECU weekly injury report anywhere so I have no idea what happened to Davis either.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;872977]saw Tannehill against OU and I thought Landry outplayed himIMO.[/quote]I have Landry Jones graded above Ryan Tannehill. And yet, I never feel good about watching Landry Jones on film. I'm always asking myself things like: who does that? why does that happen? Sometimes he's just guessing out there.

Jones' arm talent is undeniable, and gives him a huge edge over Tannehill, and he's a better athlete than I gave him credit for earlier. He's not a statue. But I don't think he's been coached all that well in college (or maybe more seriously, hasn't responded to the coaching). He's good enough to throw people open, and he's talented enough to drop in a throw 40 yards downfield in a hole in the coverage (which Tannehill can't do), but too often, Jones just plays confused. And I can't understand why.

Would you say the OU coaches are just frustrated with his lack of development? They don't even leave him in on the goal line anymore, which is why he threw one TD pass in his last five games. It almost seems like they look for reasons to take the game out of his hands, which is totally different than last year when they let him lead all of FBS in passing attempts and completions. It seemed before, they were willing to take the really, really good with the inexplicably bad, and now, they just don't want to deal with him anymore.

I guess what I'm saying is that if Jones isn't going to respond to coaching, I can't justify keeping him ranked above Tannehill, no matter how talented his right arm is.

As an ecu grad and someone who watched Davis play every game of his college career...no thanks..i can't imagine him being drafted..makes terrible decisions and seems to learn nothing from them on the next series. Never heard anything about an injury. He had a few games last year, when he first ran that air raid offense, where I thought he'd be much better than he ended up being. He was never the quarterback for that type of system though. He transferred from BC when skip holtz was still the coach and was pegged to run a much more conservative offense. He got stuck in an unexpected situation. To be fair, the playcalling was mostly awful this year too.

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