Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=firstdown;966054]Your highlights left that out and I'd say obducting one of their military is the bigger part of why he got hit. He could have also been in the wrong place at the right time.[/quote]

No, he was assassinated. He had already returned the person he abducted and treated him very well and ensured his safety. As you saw from the article, the man personally delivered him out of Gaza. That even had already happened in the past. While this man wasn't a nice guy or some heralded saint to was looking for peace, his role in Gaza was instrumental as he could enforce the peace on their side if need be. Did you not read the article? Why am I explaining this?...lol

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=KARIN LAUB and IAN DEITCH, AP]

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Masked gunmen publicly shot dead six suspected collaborators with Israel at a large Gaza City intersection Tuesday, witnesses said. An Associated Press reporter saw a mob surrounding five of the bloodied corpses shortly after the killing.

Some in the crowd stomped and spit on the bodies. A sixth corpse was tied to a motorcycle and dragged through the streets as people screamed, "Spy! Spy!"

The Hamas military wing, Izzedine al-Qassam, claimed responsibility in a large handwritten note attached to a nearby electricity pole. Hamas said the six were killed because they gave Israel information about fighters and rocket launching sites. Hamas did not provide any proof of the alleged collaboration.

... Human Rights Watch says Hamas has also tortured suspected collaborators.

... "They should have been killed in a more brutal fashion so others don't even think about working with the occupation (Israel)," said one of the bystanders, 24-year-old Ashraf Maher.[/quote]

[url=http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-world-middleeast/20121120/ML.Palestinians.Collaborators/]Hamas kills suspected collaborators with Israel | Middle Eastern Headlines | World News | Comcast[/url]

Let's not pretend anyone in this region is guiltless or some group of martyred innocents. There is hate and murder in abundance for all.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=NC_Skins;966048]Spoken like a person who's 100% clueless on Israel/Palestine history. Our citizens really need to be educated on world matters, that much is for certain.[/quote]


Sorry but I totally disagree and you can take your condescending little remarks and shove them as far as they can go.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;966070][url=http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-world-middleeast/20121120/ML.Palestinians.Collaborators/]Hamas kills suspected collaborators with Israel | Middle Eastern Headlines | World News | Comcast[/url]

Let's not pretend anyone in this region is guiltless or some group of martyred innocents. There is hate and murder in abundance for all.[/quote]



Oh hell no, I agree with you totally on that. Some of those people are ruthless and really do want the world to burn. I saw those pictures of them dragging some dead body around on motorcycles. Not sure what the hell they think they are accomplishing. They sure aren't gaining any sympathy by displaying such acts. Now, I would have no problem with some sniper picking those dudes off or them dropping a bomb in the middle of those guys. Sad thing is, the dude they are dragging is most likely some innocent guy.


[quote=Alvin Walton;966079]Sorry but I totally disagree and you can take your condescending little remarks and shove them as far as they can go.[/quote]

It's apparent by your remark you are clueless in the history of it all. Otherwise, you wouldn't have made that remark. It wasn't meant to be condescending, it was meant to state the obvious.

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[quote=NC_Skins;966056]No, he was assassinated. He had already returned the person he abducted and treated him very well and ensured his safety. As you saw from the article, the man personally delivered him out of Gaza. That even had already happened in the past. While this man wasn't a nice guy or some heralded saint to was looking for peace, his role in Gaza was instrumental as he could enforce the peace on their side if need be. Did you not read the article? Why am I explaining this?...lol[/quote]

He was not looking for peace as the articel stated. So he was killed. Seems he made a stupid move which cost him his life and thats what happen in war.

No, Mr. Jabari was not a man of peace; he didn’t believe in peace with Israel and refused to have any direct contact with Israeli leaders and even nonofficials like me.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys]Pallywood - truth in the middle east hollyland, what goes behind the scenes and for the cameras - YouTube[/ame]

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/clinton-arrives-in-middle-east-as-prospects-of-gaza-cease-fire-look-uncertain/2012/11/20/02f8be9c-3397-11e2-bfd5-e202b6d7b501_story.html"]Egypt announce a cease-fire[/URL]

[I]The Egyptian government announced Wednesday night that Israel and Palestinian leaders in the Gaza strip have agreed to halt hostilities after eight days of Israeli bombardment of the enclave and hundreds of rocket strikes inside Israel.

Standing alongside Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who engaged in intensive shuttle diplomacy aimed at ending the conflict, Egyptian Foreign Minister Mohamed Amr told a news conference that the cease-fire would begin at 9 p.m. local time.[/I]

This usually means Hamas needs to reload/resupply.

I really hope this lasts for the poor sods there who actually want peace.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

The Palestinians are serial war criminals.They violate the UN Charter regularly by calling for the destruction of Israel and their use of indiscriminate rocket attacks and other acts of terrorism put them well outside the pale of civilized countries. The fact that they are not condemned by the (IOC controlled) UN is one of many signs that organization is not an honest broker. The American Center for Law & Justice does some useful lawyering in pointing our exactly how the actions of the Palestinians constitute crimes and justify the self defense actions of Israel to remove a threat to its citizens.

They discuss self defense, the [URL="http://c0391070.cdn2.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/pdf/memorandum-supporting-israel.pdf"]Law of Armed Conflict[/URL], the principles of Distinction, Necessity and Proportionality.It is an excellent legal answer to Israel's critics and has been provided to the UN, Congress, the White House and a bunch of other folks.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

First rule of war is that you do not throw rocks at someone who has a gun.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[url=http://www.theonion.com/articles/calm-sense-of-impending-violence-returns-to-middle,30494/]Calm Sense Of Impending Violence Returns To Middle East As Ceasefire Brokered | The Onion - America's Finest News Source[/url]

Lulz

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[url=http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/05/15706380-syria-loads-chemical-weapons-into-bombs-military-awaits-assads-order?lite]Syria loads chemical weapons into bombs; military awaits Assad's order - World News[/url]


This asshole is begging to die. He must have lost his damned mind. This worries me, first they cut off the internet to the world, then reports of loading the precursors for chemical weapons. Doesn't add up to good things happening.


That said, this is coming from a "Pentagon source", which we all know about how this shit goes. We heard the same shit in regards to Iraq before that invasion. As GWB said, fool me once....can't get fooled again.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

That's probably the same stash of chemical weapons that got shipped from Iraq to Syria before the invasion.

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[quote=RedskinRat;971660]That's probably the same stash of chemical weapons that got shipped from Iraq to Syria before the invasion.[/quote]


Riiiiiight....lol

Re: All things Middle East related
 

We know because we sold them the stuff when they were fighting with Iran.

[URL="http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/071912-618875-syria-chemical-weapons-came-from-iraq-.htm?p=full"]IBD[/URL]

[I]In 2006, former Iraqi general Georges Sada, second in command of the Iraqi Air Force who served under Saddam Hussein before he defected, wrote a comprehensive book, "Saddam's Secrets."[/I]
[I]It details how the Iraqi Revolutionary Guard moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria in advance of the U.S.-led action to eliminate Hussein's WMD threat.[/I]
[I]As Sada told the New York Sun, two Iraqi Airways Boeings were converted to cargo planes by removing the seats, and special Republican Guard units loaded the planes with chemical weapons materials.[/I]

Old news, I know, but please feel free to keep laughing.

:Smoker:

Re: All things Middle East related
 

UAE: Why would anyone with any self-respect choose to work there?

[I]A British woman who was allegedly kidnapped and gang raped by three men in Dubai has been prosecuted for drinking without a licence, throwing a spotlight on the United Arab Emirates’ archaic legal system, which rights groups say does not do enough to protect victims of sexual assault.[/I]

[URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/briton-says-she-was-raped-in-the-uae--but-gets-fined-for-drinking-8390574.html"]Sick society.[/URL]

Re: All things Middle East related
 

why do most people work there? the money. 200k+ wasn't that hard to get there not that long ago.

UAE is sort of a weird place though. you have 7 different emirates, lots of oil money and basically 2 social classes. the emiraties (10%), that are stupid rich (they get gifted hundreds of thousands for turning 18 etc, i think all their officers are millionaires), and the working class (mainly immigrants) that do a lot of the shop keeping etc type stuff.

i mean, in the last 5 years their population doubled, and the 10 before that it doubled again, so i imagine the legal system hasn't quite kept up, though it's still based more on middle eastern principles that we find a bit outdated.

not excusing what happened, egypt has had the same issues since the 70s, but dubai is probably the closest/most american friendly places you'll find over in that part of the world.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

I guess I'm not that into money.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-send-missiles-400-troops-turkey-093600827.html]Pentagon to send missiles, 400 troops to Turkey - Yahoo! News[/url]

first step taken.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=That Guy;972197]why do most people work there? the money. 200k+ wasn't that hard to get there not that long ago.

UAE is sort of a weird place though. you have 7 different emirates, lots of oil money and basically 2 social classes. the emiraties (10%), that are stupid rich (they get gifted hundreds of thousands for turning 18 etc, i think all their officers are millionaires), and the working class (mainly immigrants) that do a lot of the shop keeping etc type stuff.

i mean, in the last 5 years their population doubled, and the 10 before that it doubled again, so i imagine the legal system hasn't quite kept up, though it's still based more on middle eastern principles that we find a bit outdated.

not excusing what happened, egypt has had the same issues since the 70s, but dubai is probably the closest/most american friendly places you'll find over in that part of the world.[/quote]

I am not sure about those who work in the UAE, but in several other locations in the Middle East U.S. contractors etc. are exempt from paying federal taxes on that money. Combine that with the fact that most of the time you are confined to a compound and really have nothing to spend your money on. It's a great way to save up a nice little nest egg.

Once again I am not claiming to know if this is the case in the UAE, but it is in places like Iraq and Afghanistan and formerly in places like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. I believe that we no longer have a presence in the latter 2, but I could be wrong. If we do have a presence it's not as large as it once was.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_installations_in_Kuwait]List of United States Army installations in Kuwait - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

still there.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=That Guy;975332][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_installations_in_Kuwait"]List of United States Army installations in Kuwait - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

still there.[/quote]

I was at Doha at one time. I was under the Impression that we had withdrawn from or were in the process of withdrawing from Kuwait because we had such a strong presence in Iraq. The necessity for occupation in Kuwait became questionable. I haven't worked for DOD in over a year, so I haven't paid much attention to what has transpired in that period of time.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

nah, kuwait's a friendly, we'll be there in some form forever. that's just how we do, i guess.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[URL="http://www.jewishpress.com/news/hitler-honored-in-upscale-instanbul-mall/2013/01/15/"]Turkey, WTF?!?[/URL]

[I]On Friday, January 11, a Turkish citizen took a picture to show exactly how belligerent Turkey has become. The picture is of a huge poster with the words, “Who Would You Like to Meet if You Could?” and the last name, and only photograph, is of Adolf Hitler. The other choices include Suleiman I, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, Napolean Bonaparte, the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Vladimir Lenin, Boris Yeltsin, Leonardo Da Vinci, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Michael Jackson. But only Hitler warranted a picture, a huge one at that.[/I]

Schwarzenegger? Dafuq?!? Oh, and that other Austrian....

Re: All things Middle East related
 

that's pretty random. we have lots of people in the US that think hilter is a role model, so you might as well throw USA, wtf? in there too.

some people have poor taste, some poor judgement, and some are just idiots. I mean, i think that's pretty weird and wrong, but i think that stuff happens in a lot of places, not just turkey.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=KLHJ2;975333]I was at Doha at one time. I was under the Impression that we had withdrawn from or were in the process of withdrawing from Kuwait because we had such a strong presence in Iraq. The necessity for occupation in Kuwait became questionable. I haven't worked for DOD in over a year, so I haven't paid much attention to what has transpired in that period of time.[/quote]

sorry this is late, but a lot of countries out there like having us around. it means that if they get attacked, the US gets attacked too. good port of entry, and i'm sure someone's making money or getting access to part of the US arsenal.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=That Guy;988967]that's pretty random. we have lots of people in the US that think hilter is a role model, so you might as well throw USA, wtf? in there too.[/quote]

It highlights a pervasive attitude in that region, but if you have an example of a major shopping mall using an image of Hitler I'd be interested to see it.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/04/world/asia/afghanistan-honor-killing-survivor/index.html?hpt=hp_c2]Exclusive: How my brother tried to kill me in 'honor attack' - CNN.com[/url]

This is my biggest problem with the middle east and their culture; there treatment of women. It amazes me how they fail to realize how strong of a culture and how strong their countries they could be if they empowered women. Cant believe in modern times how oppressive you could be to your own daughter, sister, mother, etc. Its disturbing.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

Chico, that's old news.

Men need to take responsibility for their actions, not treat women like they're the cause of all that's wrong.

Shout out to the women of Topless Jihad and Pakistani Atheists. Google it and support both, please.

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[quote=RedskinRat;1002179]Chico, that's old news.

Men need to take responsibility for their actions, not treat women like they're the cause of all that's wrong.

Shout out to the women of Topless Jihad and Pakistani Atheists. Google it and support both, please.[/quote]

How about the people aka the community should not force 12 year old girls to marry 60 year old men

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[quote=Chico23231;1002183]How about the people aka the community should not force 12 year old girls to marry 60 year old men[/quote]

When it's an established tradition based on the example of 'The Perfect Man' you'll have some stiff opposition in curtailing it.

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Yeah, well obviously they need a culture shift. Please excuse me if I dont respect it. Change is natural

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Its a shocking story, but i would say theres just as much - if not more - violence against women in this country.

These "honor killings" are deplorable, and the vast majority of commnities in the middle east outlaw them. They beleive violence against women is just as bad as we do here. But i'd argue the sick b@stards in this country who beat/rape/kill girls and women here, just because it gets them off, are even worse.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

Yeah violence is a small part of the oppression of women rights in the middle east.

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;1002190]Its a shocking story, but i would say theres just as much - if not more - violence against women in this country.

These "honor killings" are deplorable, and the vast majority of commnities in the middle east outlaw them. They beleive violence against women is just as bad as we do here. But i'd argue the sick b@stards in this country who beat/rape/kill girls and women here, just because it gets them off, are even worse.[/QUOTE]

Really? Just an opinion, BHA, or do you have anything to substantiate that?

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1002190]Its a shocking story, but i would say theres just as much - if not more - violence against women in this country.

These "honor killings" are deplorable, and the vast majority of commnities in the middle east outlaw them. They beleive violence against women is just as bad as we do here. But i'd argue the sick b@stards in this country who beat/rape/kill girls and women here, just because it gets them off, are even worse.[/quote]

Violence against women - whether "honor killings" or "just because it gets you off" is deplorable. I find it hard to believe that the numbers are comprable but don't know the comparable stats. Even if comprable, however, the fact that women are generally treated as property subject to the law as opposed to people with rights under the law is endemic to many countries in the ME and is enforced by their courts - both civil and religious (in some cases, one and the same).

It's night and day. I seriously doubt any well-adjusted Western woman, regardless of class, thinks to herself "Gee, I wish I lived in Pakistan, India or
Afghanistan - life would be soooo much better."

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1002207]Violence against women - whether "honor killings" or "just because it gets you off" is deplorable. I find it hard to believe that the numbers are comprable but don't know the comparable stats. Even if comprable, however, the fact that women are generally treated as property subject to the law as opposed to people with rights under the law is endemic to many countries in the ME and is enforced by their courts - both civil and religious (in some cases, one and the same).

[B]It's night and day. I seriously doubt any well-adjusted Western woman, regardless of class, thinks to herself "Gee, I wish I lived in Pakistan, India or
Afghanistan - life would be soooo much better[/B]."[/quote]

Word up Joe. At least there are laws to protect women against violence here. Over there its either no law or its so weak its left up to interpretation to whoever is enforcing it.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1002193]Really? Just an opinion, BHA, or do you have anything to substantiate that?[/quote]

Just used my brain. The article stated:

[quote]The U.N. claims that 4,000 cases of violence against women and girls were reported to the Afghan Ministry of Women between 2010 and 2012.
[/quote]

thats about 1,333 cases of violence against women and girls reported per year. Doesnt that seem shockingly small to you? even on a purely annectodal level, when you think about similar crimes here?

However, since you wanted some substaiting evidence, about 2.3MM people are raped or assaulted by their current or former partner each year. 3-4MM women are beaten or assaulted by their husbands, male lovers, or exboyfriends.
[URL="http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_the_United_States#Incidence_of_domestic_violence"]http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_the_United_States#Incidence_of_domestic_violence[/URL]

Now, I would imagine there would be some overlap between those two statistics, so lets go on the low end and say that equates to about 4MM cases of violent domestic abuse against women in the US per year.

you have 4,000,000 violent assaults against women per year in the US compared to 1,333 reported cases in Afghanistan. Now, before you the data is skewed due to the US having a much larger population, consider that the US has about 300 million people and Afghanistan has about 30 million (10 times more). So even if you multiplied the Afghan statistics by 10 to correlate the numbers, you'd have 13,333 attacks in Afghanistan to 4,000,000 in the US.

Granted, women are more likely to report crime here than in some of the more "backwater" areas of Afghanistan, but you cant argue with the numbers.

Also, interesting reading is this this UN report on violence against women:

[URL="http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/products/Worldswomen/WW2010%20Report_by%20chapter(pdf)/violence%20against%20women.pdf"]http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/products/Worldswomen/WW2010%20Report_by%20chapter(pdf)/violence%20against%20women.pdf[/URL]

The first statement in the report is that violence against women is universal. Neither the US or Afghanistan is on one of the charts shown, but surprisingly, Australia was the 4th most violent country surveyed, with over 50% of women experiencing physical violence in their lives.


Ultimately, my point is this: People get so outraged at these crimes against women in these other countries, but they dont share the same outrage when it happens here. In my opinion, its partly racism. "Its the middle east. Theyre muslim, so theyre so much worse over there." Bull crap. The truth of the matter is, violence against women is so common here (and in pretty much every other country in the "western" world) that we're immune to it. But people are only outraged when we see our "enemies" doing the same things. Its hypocritical and its shameful.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1002207]Violence against women - whether "honor killings" or "just because it gets you off" is deplorable. I find it hard to believe that the numbers are comprable but don't know the comparable stats. [B]Even if comprable, however, the fact that women are generally treated as property subject to the law as opposed to people with rights under the law is endemic to many countries in the ME and is enforced by their courts - both civil and religious (in some cases, one and the same).[/B]
It's night and day. I seriously doubt any well-adjusted Western woman, regardless of class, thinks to herself "Gee, I wish I lived in Pakistan, India or
Afghanistan - life would be soooo much better."[/quote]

Theyre not comparable. They are worse here. Although its beyond dispute that women have more "rights" here from a legal perspective, the majority of eastern and middle eastern countrys consider violence against women and children to be criminal. Even if Afghanistan, its illegal pretty much everywhere. Its just certain tribal areas that adhere to extremist religous law where this sort of thing is tolerated... yet, ignorant americans act like the whole middle east is represented by those small, isolated areas.

The fact remains that violence against women is universal problem. No matter what the country, some men mistreat women becuase they're @ssholes. I would imagine most abusers "justifiy" their actions to themselves for varoius reasons. The only difference in the situation described in the CNN article is that the @ssholes feel they are justified because of their religious laws.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

I think we do get outraged here, but the point is, its culturely acceptable in the Middle East. Its clearly not here.

But like I said before, violence against women is actually a small part of equality rights of women over there. Violence is the end result, kinda like my article. There was an honor attempted killing only because the woman had no choice or say in the matter of who she could be with.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1002216]Theyre not comparable. [B]They are worse here. Although its beyond dispute that women have more "rights" here from a legal perspective, the majority of eastern and middle eastern countrys consider violence against women and children to be criminal. Even if Afghanistan, its illegal pretty much everywhere. Its just certain tribal areas that adhere to extremist religous law where this sort of thing is tolerated... yet, ignorant americans act like the whole middle east is represented by those small, isolated areas. [/B]The fact remains that violence against women is universal problem. No matter what the country, some men mistreat women becuase they're @ssholes. I would imagine most abusers "justifiy" their actions to themselves for varoius reasons. The only difference in the situation described in the CNN article is that the @ssholes feel they are justified because of their religious laws.[/quote]

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong