Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=Lotus;941840]Orakpo was hurt because Robinson runs a slow 4.4. Discuss.[/quote]

Maybe Orakpo should've been the one running the 4.4?

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

Let's not forget that Nield is also on IR (and folks thought we'd be seeing good stuff from him this year too), as are Minnifield and Bernstine. To have lost two defensive starters and three depth guys -- and only 5 quarters into the season -- is pretty rough. I know injuries happen (look at the Packers two years ago), but it isn't as though we had great depth to begin with.

The person I feel sorriest for is Fletcher. He has got to be thinking that he cannot have too many more chances at a ring with the Redskins, and without saying that we were headed that way this season (that would be overly optimistic), I think this likely ensures that we'd be incredibly lucky to get to the post-season.

Time for others to step up.

Speaking of which, did Cofield not play yesterday? He's not credited for a single tackle, sack, or anything else.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;941842]There is no way you can justify QB being our deepest and most talented position. After Griffin, you've got a a COMPLETE UKNOWN in cousins and COMPLETELY HORRIBLE player in grossman.

You know you have good depth when you starter leaves Thr game and you don't miss a beat. We've experienced that with WR and, to a lesser degree, LB. If you want to say QB is our deepest position, then explain to me how you k ow the drop off from griffin to cousins to grossman is less significant than the drop off from garçon to Robinson to hankerson.[/quote]

RGIII (alone) makes QB the most talented position group IMO. Cousins looked good in preseason so that's something. LB group is definitely talented.

I think we did miss Garcon yesterday. Don't remember seeing any of our WRs break a tackle for extra yards.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=calia;941844]Let's not forget that Nield is also on IR (and folks thought we'd be seeing good stuff from him this year too), as are Minnifield and Bernstine. To have lost two defensive starters and three depth guys -- and only 5 quarters into the season -- is pretty rough. I know injuries happen (look at the Packers two years ago), but it isn't as though we had great depth to begin with.

The person I feel sorriest for is Fletcher. He has got to be thinking that he cannot have too many more chances at a ring with the Redskins, and without saying that we were headed that way this season (that would be overly optimistic), I think this likely ensures that we'd be incredibly lucky to get to the post-season.

Time for others to step up.

[B]Speaking of which, did Cofield not play yesterday? He's not credited for a single tackle, sack, or anything else[/B].[/quote]

Was wondering the same. Was gonna look closer on the replay but I don't think NFLN has scheduled it yet.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

Bring back Markus White or Bryan/Ryan kehl.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=The Dull Roar;941833]R.I.P. Redskins defense '12

We hardly knew yee[/quote]

LOL! Gona miss those 63 points given up in two games!

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=The Goat;941835]References to combine numbers (no pads, perfect conditions) drive me bonkers. Gamespeed is a whole nuther animal. If speed stats translated to the field Jerry Rice wouldn't have played pro ball...and a million guys nobody knows would be HOFers.

Robinson doesn't outrun defenders, he gets open by running good routes though and that is definitely valuable. Garcon outran Patrick Robinson after Robinson bumped his teammate and stumbled a bit. Otherwise Garcon hasn't blazed by anyone. But Garcon plays hard and will break a tackle here and there. Both guys have qualities though and especially with Garcon we haven't had a WR who could break tackles in a long, long time.[/quote]

You seem to think if guys don't take every catch to the house they don't have speed.

Garçon has more than enough speed, he showed it last week and in Indy. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Robinson is also plenty fast. There was a play yesterday where he was wide open and took the lid off the D, as Tim Ryan said, and Griffin simply didn't see him.

For someone who seems so hung up on speed, I don't understand why you talk up slowsters like Plax or Gaffney.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=The Goat;941846]RGIII (alone) makes QB the most talented position group IMO. Cousins looked good in preseason so that's something. LB group is definitely talented.

I think we did miss Garcon yesterday. Don't remember seeing any of our WRs break a tackle for extra yards.[/quote]

I think where we disagree is in our definition of "most talented position group." At the moment, RGIII is the most talented player on our team period - and by a fairly wide margin. If we only looked at the starters, i'd agree with you. But when we consider depth, we're by necessity considering the drop off between the starter and the backup. Cousins is the backup and he's an unknown that looked good in preseason - still, the dropp-off between him and RGIII is substantial. If you think QB is a [i]deeper position[/i], you would be essentially say we'd do better as a team with cousins and our starting WRs than RGIII and our backup WRs. I just dont see it.

Using my definition of depth as being drop off in talent between starters and backups, i'd rank our deepest position groups as being (in order):
1. WR
2. LB
3. DL
4. RB
5. TE
6. QB

If we're going to lose players to injury, i think our team can best afford to lose players in that order (WR would hurt our team the least, QB would hurt our team the most). I didnt rank DB at all because we have no talent there to speak of in the first place.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, we've lost a starting LB and DL and have compentent backups to step in. I really dont think the drop off will be that signficant in our starting lineup. We've got GOOD DEPTH at those positions. Honestly, if someone told we were going to lose two defensive starters, and gave me the choice of picking the two to lose, i'd have chosen Carriker and Orakpo. Think of how bad we'd be off if we'd lost Kerrigan and Bowen.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;941848]Bring back Markus White or Bryan/Ryan kehl.[/quote]

Supposedly Haslett really liked Kehl. I think he can play inside too.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

To stay on topic, injuries arent exactly the death knell to playoff chances. We saw the Giants overcome injuries last season and win it all and the Packers did the same.

[quote=Mattyk;941851]
Robinson is also plenty fast. There was a play yesterday where he was wide open and took the lid off the D, as Tim Ryan said, and Griffin simply didn't see him.
[/quote]

Great point right there

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=calia;941844]Let's not forget that Nield is also on IR (and folks thought we'd be seeing good stuff from him this year too), as are Minnifield and Bernstine. To have lost two defensive starters and three depth guys -- and only 5 quarters into the season -- is pretty rough. I know injuries happen (look at the Packers two years ago), but it isn't as though we had great depth to begin with.

The person I feel sorriest for is Fletcher. He has got to be thinking that he cannot have too many more chances at a ring with the Redskins, and without saying that we were headed that way this season (that would be overly optimistic), I think this likely ensures that we'd be incredibly lucky to get to the post-season.

Time for others to step up.

Speaking of which, did Cofield not play yesterday? He's not credited for a single tackle, sack, or anything else.[/quote]

Cofield did play. But he didn't show up for the game.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

With all the hoopla about Rak, Carriker is a huge hit to our run defense. Did anyone see our run defense yesterday? I love Rak but he is the 3rd best LB on this team IMO, its a loss and nobody you sign or replace him with will get you double digit sack numbers. Lorenzo could be an option or the rookie Kennan, Carter off the street as somebody already mentioned. You could move Kerrigan over to that side on obvious blitzing downs. We still have options but can't afford another LB injury the rest of the season. Losing Carriker was a bigger blow because nobody we have comes close to being a good run stopper like him. Jenkins has been a huge disappointment after all the intitial hoopla.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=Lotus;941858]Cofield did play. But he didn't show up for the game.[/quote]

Cofield is not a NT, when he signed here he said a DT's dream is to get the center one on one. Well he is all talk because he gets that more times then not and does nuttin.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=CapitalDefense;941860]Cofield is not a NT, when he signed here he said a DT's dream is to get the center one on one. Well he is all talk because he gets that more times then not and does nuttin.[/quote]

Do not be surprised to see Cofield moved to Carrikers spot and Baker inserted into the starting lineup.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=los panda;941759]it's unfortunate but it's not like either of them were game-changers. orakpo is not demarcus ware, jenkins has the tools to account for carriker's absence.

we're not doomed, it's an opportunity for a antonio pierce or ryan clark to emerge[/quote]Best post I've seen on this. Orakpo is a nice player, but many Redskins fans make him out to be a superstar, which he isn't. Clay Matthews was drafted a round later than Rak, and he is far more impactful. Ryan Kerrigan is too, for that matter.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

After these injuries and the recent loss, this is how I feel:

[IMG]http://i.qkme.me/3qlr9a.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=CapitalDefense;941861]Do not be surprised to see Cofield moved to Carrikers spot and Baker inserted into the starting lineup.[/quote]cofield/baker/jenkins split time at nt, jenkins/bowen/golston/cofield at de?
i don't know if baker and golston are enough to adequately relieve those 3 starters. i'd like to see another tub brought in to spell cofield/baker at nt.

cofield/baker/unnamed tub - 3 bodies at nt
bowen/jenkins/golston - 3 bodies at de

let cofield play any spot in the rotation

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

I like Cofield at DE. But more likely, Jenkins takes over Carriker's spot. Since Jenkins has been our 2nd team NT, Baker likely will be activated for the first time and used to relieve Cofield.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;941851]You seem to think if guys don't take every catch to the house they don't have speed.

Garçon has more than enough speed, he showed it last week and in Indy. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Robinson is also plenty fast. There was a play yesterday where he was wide open and took the lid off the D, as Tim Ryan said, and Griffin simply didn't see him.

For someone who seems so hung up on speed, I don't understand why you talk up slowsters like Plax or Gaffney.[/quote]

Word...I didn't explain very well. I'm saying these guys don't have game-breaking speed like Fitz, Wallace etc to burn the defender(s). That's all. Neither do we have a big target type guy who can consistently bring in the jump ball. We've got a nice WR corp, but nothing elite in any facet of the things that make WRs elite e.g. size, speed, or the uncanny skill to consistently create space and create plays from nothing.

At least with Plax we have a big target who would undoubtedly help in the endzone, and would UNDOUBTEDLY help in the situations Kyle keeps putting RGIII into with WRs and defenders concentrated in pockets down-field. It drove me nuts yesterday, but that's a whole nuther topic and I need to rewatch the game to break it down.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=The Goat;941867]Word...I didn't explain very well. I'm saying these guys don't have game-breaking speed like Fitz, Wallace etc to burn the defender(s). That's all. Neither do we have a big target type guy who can consistently bring in the jump ball. We've got a nice WR corp, but nothing elite in any facet of the things that make WRs elite e.g. size, speed, or the uncanny skill to consistently create space and create plays from nothing.

At least with Plax we have a big target who would undoubtedly help in the endzone, and would UNDOUBTEDLY help in the situations Kyle keeps putting RGIII into with WRs and defenders concentrated in pockets down-field. It drove me nuts yesterday, but that's a whole nuther topic and I need to rewatch the game to break it down.[/quote]

No we don't have a burner like Wallace, not many teams do.

We're only 2 games in, I think we need to give things a little more time to play out. The WR spot isn't high on our needs. Getting Garcon back would really help. And someone like Robinson is still developing.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttt

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;941868][B]No we don't have a burner like Wallace, not many teams do.[/B]

We're only 2 games in, I think we need to give things a little more time to play out. The WR spot isn't high on our needs. Getting Garcon back would really help. And someone like Robinson is still developing.[/quote]

What do you mean, why can't we just buy one from the NFL-burner-wideout-with-good-hands-tree? I thought they were a dime-a-dozen?

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=mooby;941872]What do you mean, why can't we just buy one from the NFL-burner-wideout-with-good-hands-tree? I thought they were a dime-a-dozen?[/quote]

Marko Mitchell might still be working at TGI Fridays. ;)

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[I]I think people just talk on here to make it seem like they know what's going on lol.. Robison lacks speed? LOL. He drops one ball, and people cal for his head.. Hankerson almost dropped a WIDE OPEN ball.. Imagine if he did...

A. Robinson is our fastest WR. He's a huge burner.. He almost broke it on a hitch route against the Rams. I wish I could find the video where he caught that stopping route in the preseason and totally vanished to the end zone.

He's a late round pick for WR who is turning in solid performances when given the chance. [/I]

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=takethecake;941752]This is really, really terrible. I pray Haslett can adjust for this[/quote]

.........and here in lies the real problem.............

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=Bucket;941897][I]I think people just talk on here to make it seem like they know what's going on lol.. Robison lacks speed? LOL. He drops one ball, and people cal for his head.. Hankerson almost dropped a WIDE OPEN ball.. Imagine if he did...

A. Robinson is our fastest WR. He's a huge burner.. He almost broke it on a hitch route against the Rams. I wish I could find the video where he caught that stopping route in the preseason and totally vanished to the end zone.

He's a late round pick for WR who is turning in solid performances when given the chance. [/I][/quote]

Robinson is just a scapegoat. A lot of shouldas, couldas and wouldas today, it seems.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

I have just had a major wave of optimism. The Redskins rite now are a team with what appears to be a great qb and a handful of weapons around him, capable of putting up big points and have a below average defense. Sounds like the Saints, Packers, and Patriots. We have not even played a home game yet - and our offense has played well in two loud ass domes. Lets see what happens at Fedex - I will be there with my iphone and tapatalk app in hand! HTTR

Is it funny the highs and lows of a nfl season; last week we were on cloud 9 this week it is nothing but doom.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

Any chance one of the roster spots go to Cooley considering the lack of TE production.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=redskin37;941906]Any chance one of the roster spots go to Cooley considering the lack of TE production.[/quote]

Seems like the TEs have been busy blocking seeing as especially the RT side of the line (I'm looking at you Polumbus, letting Chris Long bend you over all day yesterday) has been basically inept. Paul is mainly a special teams beast and Paulsen showed a flash of promise last week in regards to catching but is mainly a blocking TE. Davis... I dunno where he's been lately but I'm hoping he starts showing up in the coming weeks.

No real need for Cooley right now.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=redskin37;941906]Any chance one of the roster spots go to Cooley considering the lack of TE production.[/quote]

Lack of TE production means your WRs are worth a damn. The reason Cooley did as well as he did was because our WRs sucked in the past and we had a QB that did nothing but check down. Now we finally have decent WR talent and a QB that can get the ball to them.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

Thankfully we have some depth at these positions. Wish we would have held on to Markus White.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=mredskins;941905]Is it funny the highs and lows of a nfl season; last week we were on cloud 9 this week it is nothing but doom.[/quote]

LOL - i know - im all optimism again - see my last post -

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

Par...

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=NC_Skins;941908]Lack of TE production means your WRs are worth a damn. The reason Cooley did as well as he did was because our WRs sucked in the past and we had a QB that did nothing but check down. Now we finally have decent WR talent and a QB that can get the ball to them.[/quote]

Agreed, but I still expect more from Davis.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=53Fan;941909]Thankfully we have some depth at these positions. Wish we would have held on to Markus White.[/quote]

White was simply beat out by Chris Wilson and Rob Jackson. These two should be licking their chops at getting a chance to show what they can do. I expect them to come in and get the job done.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

You would hope............

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=mredskins;941905]Is it funny the highs and lows of a nfl season; last week we were on cloud 9 this week it is nothing but doom.[/quote]
~~~~~~
Part of being a Redskins fan and has been for the last twenty years. One week we are over the moon the next it is time to cut people, fire coaches and change the playbook. Football season really is like a soap opera.

[QUOTE=TheSmurfs22;941930]~~~~~~
Part of being a Redskins fan and has been for the last twenty years. One week we are over the moon the next it is time to cut people, fire coaches and change the playbook. Football season really is like a soap opera.[/QUOTE]

Thats every team though. At least we as skins fans have understandable frustration. Giants fans were booing the hell out of eli and the giants at the half yesterday. They just won the damn superbowl and everyone knows eli stinks until the fourth quarter.

Re: Orakpo and Carriker Done for Season
 

[quote=SouperMeister;941862]Best post I've seen on this. Orakpo is a nice player, but many Redskins fans make him out to be a superstar, which he isn't. Clay Matthews was drafted a round later than Rak, and he is far more impactful. Ryan Kerrigan is too, for that matter.[/quote]What?

Rak is second only to Matthews in number of sacks since they both joined joined the league (29 for Rak 33 for Matthews, 170 tackles to Matthews' 171). He made an immediate impact on our team with his arrival, and his absence will adversely affect our front seven and its ability to create pressure.

Some Redskins fans are acting as if he isn't a stud and that his absence won't have that big of an impact on our D.

They are wrong.

He is and it does. That's the reality.

Will the other guys step up? We can only hope. But this incessant downplaying of Rak's ability and his affect on our defense is silly.