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Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=warriorzpath;1019808]Tackling. It's football basics! You can't have a player that you know that can't do it.[/quote]
Madieu Williams and Doughty tackled last year. So teams passed over the top of them. Tackling 101 didnt seem to make much difference. This isnt early 1900's football where every play was a run. You have no choice but to defend the pass in this era. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=warriorzpath;1019808]Tackling. It's football basics! You can't have a player that you know that can't do it.[/quote]
Has he had alot of missed tackles so far in game action? Ive really seen his weakness has been the bad angles. Tackling I havent seen him miss one off the top of my head. But you realize across the league tackling has been pretty poor in games because they usually dont hit and tackle in training camp. Im not freakin out, like I said before Im sure there is a plan |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Skinzman;1019809]Madieu Williams and Doughty tackled last year. So teams passed over the top of them. Tackling 101 didnt seem to make much difference. This isnt early 1900's football where every play was a run. You have no choice but to defend the pass in this era.[/quote]
You do get that throwing over the top of the safeties without the need for tackling is not real. Don't you? |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=warriorzpath;1019811]You do get that throwing over the top of the safeties without the need for tackling is not real. Don't you?[/quote]
Ask Victor Cruz and the Giants from the first game last year. Or the Bengals. Or most other teams we played. When receivers are running away from you after beating you deep, whats it matter if they play the run well or tackle well. M. Williams actually tackled when he got there, he just rarely got there to actually use that ability. The two plays you keep referencing about Rambo were runs where he had to come up from center field and got juked. We havent seen him being burned like our safeties were last year. If he can cover and break up passes in the passing game, then he is doing a better job as a free safety than we had last year. Like I have already said, if Gomes is better then he should play. But since free safety has pass responsibilities, it appears the coaches believe Rambo to be the better free safety. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Chico23231;1019810]Has he had alot of missed tackles so far in game action? Ive really seen his weakness has been the bad angles. Tackling I havent seen him miss one off the top of my head. But you realize across the league tackling has been pretty poor in games because they usually dont hit and tackle in training camp.
Im not freakin out, like I said before Im sure there is a plan[/quote] Missed tackles- it happens. It's the way Rambo has missed them 2 games in a row. Against Vick or McCoy, this will be just as bad. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=warriorzpath;1019832]Missed tackles- it happens. It's the way Rambo has missed them 2 games in a row. Against Vick or McCoy, this will be just as bad.[/quote]
What safety do we have that will consistently come from 20 yards away and make every tackle against Vick or McCoy? |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Skinzman;1019833]What safety do we have that will consistently come from 20 yards away and make every tackle against Vick or McCoy?[/quote]
Let me get this right. It's okay with you that Rambo has this issue with tackling in space. It's okay to ignore if he's still having this problem and he starts in the eagles game. Talking about everyone and everything else except his issue is just plain denial. He NEEDS to fix this problem. I wouldn't let a safety in youth rec football play with that problem. The risk of him giving up a big play or touchdown in the situation outweighs everything else that he possibly can contribute - and since he's a rookie, we don't know what he can provide consistently. And it's assumed that he will make other mistakes, which I might be okay with other than this. It's too big to just ignore. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Skinzman;1019809] Madieu Williams and Doughty tackled last year. So teams passed over the top of them. [B]Tackling 101 didnt seem to make much difference.[/B] This isnt early 1900's football where every play was a run. You have no choice but to defend the pass in this era.[/quote]
...and we won the NFC East title for the first time in forever and made the playoffs. Rule #1 in good sound defense, control the line of scrimmage and stop the run. The rest is important as well, but if you do not stop the run you will not make the playoffs and you are playing for next year. We had one of the worst pass defenses last seson and still made the playoffs. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=warriorzpath;1019842]Let me get this right. It's okay with you that Rambo has this issue with tackling in space. It's okay to ignore if he's still having this problem and he starts in the eagles game.
Talking about everyone and everything else except his issue is just plain denial. He NEEDS to fix this problem. I wouldn't let a safety in youth rec football play with that problem. The risk of him giving up a big play or touchdown in the situation outweighs everything else that he possibly can contribute - and since he's a rookie, we don't know what he can provide consistently.[/quote] I have already said that if Gomes is better, that he should play over Rambo. I have also said that he clearly needs to work on his angles. But who is better on the team to play the position of free safety? The fact is, NFL coaches agree with me that playing the pass is important for a free safety. Otherwise we would just put a LB as a free safety if playing the run was the only thing they are responsible for. What you dont seem to understand is that Gomes is not the second coming of Troy Polamalu. Nor is any of the other players that we have at free safety. If Rambo, for all of his deficiencies, is the best free safety on the team, then he should be the one playing. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Defensewins;1019843]...and we won the NFC East title for the first time in forever and made the playoffs. Rule #1 in good sound defense, control the line of scrimmage and stop the run. The rest is important as well, but if you do not stop the run you will not make the playoffs and you are playing for next year. We had one of the worst pass defenses last seson and still made the playoffs.[/quote]
Because RG3 and Alfred Morris had absolutely nothing to do with that. It was all Doughty and Madieu Williams, without those 2 at safety, we win 3 games... We won the NFC East due to our offense, not our horribly ranked defense. We won in spite of being one of the worst defenses in the league. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Defensewins;1019843]...and we won the NFC East title for the first time in forever and made the playoffs. Rule #1 in good sound defense, control the line of scrimmage and stop the run. The rest is important as well, but if you do not stop the run you will not make the playoffs and you are playing for next year. We had one of the worst pass defenses last seson and still made the playoffs.[/quote]
Im still old school and agree with this. +1 |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Skinzman;1019844]I have already said that if Gomes is better, that he should play over Rambo. I have also said that he clearly needs to work on his angles. But who is better on the team to play the position of free safety? The fact is, NFL coaches agree with me that playing the pass is important for a free safety. Otherwise we would just put a LB as a free safety if playing the run was the only thing they are responsible for.
What you dont seem to understand is that Gomes is not the second coming of Troy Polamalu. Nor is any of the other players that we have at free safety. If Rambo, for all of his deficiencies, is the best free safety on the team, then he should be the one playing.[/quote] Where in the hell did anyone, anywhere, come close to saying that Gomes is the second coming of Polamalu? You're the only one that even put them in the same sentence in the history of Gomes and Polamalu playing football. You are obviously delusional and in denial by even implying that I said something like that to bolster your argument. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Skinzman;1019845]Because RG3 and Alfred Morris had absolutely nothing to do with that. It was all Doughty and Madieu Williams, without those 2 at safety, we win 3 games...
We won the NFC East due to our offense, not our horribly ranked defense. We won in spite of being one of the worst defenses in the league.[/quote] Take a look at the teams that make the playoffs and the ones that don't. The teams that can stop the run and can run the ball on offense (Ravens, 49ers, Seattle, Redskins,etc) make more times than not. You can listen to the fantasy football geeks and people that sell the game all you want that say the "NFL is a passing league". But high passing teams (Brady, Manning and Rogers) were watching the Superbowl while the balanced teams that ran the ball 49ers and Ravens played in it. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Defensewins;1019848]Take a look at the teams that make the playoffs and the ones that don't. The teams that can stop the run and can run the ball on offense (Ravens, 49ers, Seattle, Redskins,etc) make more times than not. You can listen to the fantasy football geeks and people that sell the game all you want. But high passing teams were watching the Superbowl while the balanced teams that ran the ball 49ers and Ravens played in it.[/quote]
The fact is we were average at stopping the run. Look at yards per carry, and we were middle of the pack. Its just that teams constantly passed on us and hardly ran. We had the fewest rushes against in the league. But if you honestly think that the reason the Ravens and 49ers stopped the run so well had nothing to do with any other players except the free safety, you are sadly mistaken. The Ravens and 49ers both had solid D lines and LB's. Never once did I say that stopping the run was a bad thing. What I have said consistently is that the free safety is not the number one run stopper. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=warriorzpath;1019847]Where in the hell did anyone, anywhere, come close to saying that Gomes is the second coming of Polamalu? You're the only one that even put them in the same sentence in the history of Gomes and Polamalu playing football. You are obviously delusional and in denial by even implying that I said something like that to bolster your argument.[/quote]
I will ask this again for the third time. Who is better at free safety on this team? If they are better than Rambo, then by all means they should play over him. Im pretty sure that if you ask any D Coord. in the league, they will not tell you that the main responsibility of the free safety is to stop the run. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
Just to add, when you go by total rushing yards against. Which is what is used to rank teams. The two best teams against the run were Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh. Two teams that didnt make the playoffs. Baltimore was 20th against the run.
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Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Skinzman;1019851]I will ask this again for the third time. Who is better at free safety on this team? If they are better than Rambo, then by all means they should play over him.
Im pretty sure that if you ask any D Coord. in the league, they will not tell you that the main responsibility of the free safety is to stop the run.[/quote] Let me say this for the UMPTEENTH time - he CAN'T play if he has this problem with the basics of tackling. Only IF he shows that he fixed this problem then that's when you put him into the discussion. Have you seen a starting safety (free or otherwise) play in the NFL that consistently makes this mistake, have any kind of longevity? It's a secondary concern who plays in his place if he's making this mistake consistently, but he needs to be on the bench. He has 2 games to prove that he has fixed this problem, if not, and they start him (which I doubt), Vick and McCoy will eat him alive. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
Part of the reason we were even average against the run was because teams didn't bother to run. They knew they could beat us through the air. I'm with Skinzman; Rambo is the best option and should start. He might get beat by Vick or McCoy a few times, but we can't pull him out of the Eagles' game and deny him valuable experience just so we win the game.
Edit: warriorzpath, Rambo is a rookie. As in, he has never played in an NFL regular season game. Give him time to develop; he's going to need more than just a couple games to improve. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=SmootSmack;1018801]Reed and Rambo. I don't trust Meriweather's health yet.
Actually, I probably trust him more for week 1 than week 2[/quote] Just catching up..but I agree with this. Has Meriweather been on the field this year? Reed and Rambo imo. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=warriorzpath;1019856]Let me say this for the UMPTEENTH time - he CAN'T play if he has this problem with the basics of tackling. Only IF he shows that he fixed this problem then that's when you put him into the discussion.
Have you seen a starting safety (free or otherwise) play in the NFL that consistently makes this mistake, have any kind of longevity? It's a secondary concern who plays in his place if he's making this mistake consistently, but he needs to be on the bench. He has 2 games to prove that he has fixed this problem, if not, and they start him (which I doubt), Vick and McCoy will eat him alive.[/quote] I remember during Sean Taylor's rookie year, he took bad angles trying to blow guys up. Not comparing Rambo to Taylor, but I think it's a technique thing that can be worked out. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=warriorzpath;1019856]Let me say this for the UMPTEENTH time - he CAN'T play if he has this problem with the basics of tackling. Only IF he shows that he fixed this problem then that's when you put him into the discussion.
Have you seen a starting safety (free or otherwise) play in the NFL that consistently makes this mistake, have any kind of longevity? It's a secondary concern who plays in his place if he's making this mistake consistently, but he needs to be on the bench. He has 2 games to prove that he has fixed this problem, if not, and they start him (which I doubt), Vick and McCoy will eat him alive.[/quote] You wont answer the question. Who is a better replacement? Gomes isnt the answer, and Doughty can in no way handle free safety. If he is the best player for the job, regardless of deficiencies, then he plays. And according to Shanny and Haslett, he is the best for the job right now. Again... If we are relying on our free safety to stop the Eagles running game, we have already lost that game. If the free safety is who we are relying on to stop the run, then we need to put in a different MLB and move London to free safety. As for free safeties having longevity, some free safeties made a name for themselves as a center fielder. Playing almost exclusively against the pass. The problem with Rambo is taking angles in the open field. I agree thats a problem, but according to the coaches of the Redskins, he is the best suited for the job. Because they understand that for a free safety, the most important job is defending the passing game. When we get that free safety who the coaches rate as better than Rambo, then Rambo will sit. I dont really care if he is sitting or not. I want the best player available at each position. And as of right now at the free safety spot, thats Rambo. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
Rambo clearly needs work, but he's a rookie. It's to be expected. He just needs to settle down and get some confidence going.
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Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=SirLK26;1019858]Part of the reason we were even average against the run was because teams didn't bother to run. They knew they could beat us through the air. I'm with Skinzman; Rambo is the best option and should start. He might get beat by Vick or McCoy a few times, but we can't pull him out of the Eagles' game and deny him valuable experience just so we win the game.[/quote]
Experience be damned if it means for a greater chance to lose. Maybe this is the disconnect- I'm thinking that winning is the priority. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Skinzman;1019863]You wont answer the question. Who is a better replacement? Gomes isnt the answer, and Doughty can in no way handle free safety. If he is the best player for the job, regardless of deficiencies, then he plays. And according to Shanny and Haslett, he is the best for the job right now.
Again... If we are relying on our free safety to stop the Eagles running game, we have already lost that game. If the free safety is who we are relying on to stop the run, then we need to put in a different MLB and move London to free safety. As for free safeties having longevity, some free safeties made a name for themselves as a center fielder. Playing almost exclusively against the pass. The problem with Rambo is taking angles in the open field. I agree thats a problem, but according to the coaches of the Redskins, he is the best suited for the job. Because they understand that for a free safety, the most important job is defending the passing game. When we get that free safety who the coaches rate as better than Rambo, then Rambo will sit. I dont really care if he is sitting or not. I want the best player available at each position. And as of right now at the free safety spot, thats Rambo.[/quote] If he's still making this mistake, I'd think about playing him on obvious passing downs. I would start Reed Doughty at strong and Meriweather at free. And I can't remember any safety making this mistake consistently in the NFL. Like I said before, one time (even for a long touchdown) you can chalk it up to being a rookie and a [B]learning experience[/B], but twice in his first 2 NFL game appearances is nothing to dismiss. It means that he didn't correct the problem and it wasn't a [B]learning experience[/B] the first time around because he didn't learn. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=warriorzpath;1019869]If he's still making this mistake, I'd think about playing him on obvious passing downs. I would start Reed Doughty at strong and Meriweather at free.
And I can't remember any safety making this mistake consistently in the NFL. Like I said before, one time (even for a long touchdown) you can chalk it up to being a rookie and a [B]learning experience[/B], but twice in his first 2 NFL game appearances is nothing to dismiss. It means that he didn't correct the problem and it wasn't a [B]learning experience[/B] the first time around because he didn't learn.[/quote] Thats assuming that Meriweather is healthy and can stay healthy. Which im not sold on yet. But if our defense is better with those two as a combo, im not against it. I also dont buy that twice in his first two games means he didnt or cant learn it. The NFL can take some time to learn and get adjusted to game speed. Look at Alfred Morris, as a rookie, he made plenty miss tackles on him. Some of the players being well established players. Two missed tackles in two games, with one being an open field tackle against Chris Johnson running all by himself, is not some crazy thing that never happens. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Skinzman;1019871]Thats assuming that Meriweather is healthy and can stay healthy. Which im not sold on yet. But if our defense is better with those two as a combo, im not against it.
I also dont buy that twice in his first two games means he didnt or cant learn it. The NFL can take some time to learn and get adjusted to game speed. Look at Alfred Morris, as a rookie, he made plenty miss tackles on him. Some of the players being well established players. Two missed tackles in two games, with one being an open field tackle against Chris Johnson running all by himself, is not some crazy thing that never happens.[/quote] Whether or not he's still learning how to handle that situation or adjust to game speed is not really the issue. The real issue is knowing that he's still having this problem and starting him against the eagles. I'm okay with him still learning, but while he's learning - he needs to be on the bench, at least at the start of the game. If he's out there most of the game (assuming this problem continues), there's going to be more than a good chance that he's going to be exploited by Vick and McCoy. That's something I'm not willing to just accept and be happy with. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=warriorzpath;1019873]Whether or not he's still learning how to handle that situation or adjust to game speed is not really the issue. The real issue is knowing that he's still having this problem and starting him against the eagles. [B]I'm okay with him still learning, but while he's learning - he needs to be on the bench, at least at the start of the game.[/B] If he's out there most of the game (assuming this problem continues), there's going to be more than a good chance that he's going to be exploited by Vick and McCoy. That's something I'm not willing to just accept and be happy with.[/quote]
Defending the run is an issue Rambo's had since college. It's going to take more than a few games for him to improve in that area. If you want him to warm the bench while he's learning, he'll probably be on the bench the whole season and the secondary will have lost a valuable playmaker. Better he gets burned by Vick or McCoy now, gets valuable game experience, and learns how to stop the run by improving his game mistakes, than to let a lesser safety start just because Rambo's strength isn't defending the run. He's going to have to learn sometime; might as well let it be now. He'll learn much faster in games than he ever would in practice. Last year, we made the playoffs despite a poor secondary. Rambo is an upgrade over any other safety we have except Meriweather, or maybe Phillip Thomas. I would be much more comfortable in the playoffs with a 16-game tested rookie Rambo than the other older safeties on the roster. My opinions. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
safety looks like it'll be an issue all year.
might as well let rambo go (be the starter). gomes is terrible, jackson is still banned, and meriweather may or may not be healthy. if he's not reed is probably the 2nd safety. we just have to hope the rush is good to cover up the problems that are going to exist there this year. I think that's pretty much it as far as safeties are concerned. edit: clarification. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=That Guy;1019885]might as well let rambo go,[/quote]I think it's early, and we have no better depth. *groan*
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Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/tanard-jackson-hopes-get-back-redskins]Tanard Jackson hopes to get back with Redskins | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url]
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Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1019913][url=http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/tanard-jackson-hopes-get-back-redskins]Tanard Jackson hopes to get back with Redskins | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url][/quote]
Awesome news. This guy is a legit NFL Safety. Seeing what Tanard said on the video about watching every snap last year, it looks like he is chomping at the bit and will be ready to play. He will be a great on the field teacher for Rambo. Rambo can come off the bench and play which is where he should be at this point right now, judging by his play this preseason. Rambo can earn his starting position. IMO Rambo is not to be ready to be starter for Eagles game. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
Getting TJ back would be huge.
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Re: Who are your starting Safeties
I think I can live with a safety group of Doughty, Merriweather, Jackson and Rambo (with Gomes lasting only until Jackson can get into playing shape and up to speed - so the bye week).
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Re: Who are your starting Safeties
Screw Dejon Gomes. Give the kid Jose Gumbs a shot!!!!!
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Re: Who are your starting Safeties
I know Ive been saying and will continue to say it, Tanard Jackson needs to come asap. He can play both safety positions folks. If Merriweather isnt right, I wouldnt mind sliding Rambo inside at SS and T Jax at the Free spot.
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Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Chico23231;1019960]I know Ive been saying and will continue to say it, Tanard Jackson needs to come asap. He can play both safety positions folks. If Merriweather isnt right, [B]I wouldnt mind sliding Rambo inside at SS and T Jax at the Free spot.[/B][/quote]
I certainly don't support this idea. Rambo at SS would be a disaster, since strong safeties are generally used to help out on the run. Rambo needs to be playing the pass, at FS, which is his strength. If Rambo improves his tackling, perhaps it would be a possibility, but not now. It's not that he's a terrible tackler, but strong safeties need to be strong against the run. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
Just saw this article about a potential trade for one of the best safeties in the NFL
[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000232635/article/jairus-byrd-believed-to-be-open-to-buffalo-bills-trade]Jairus Byrd believed to be open to Buffalo Bills trade - NFL.com[/url] Might be playing for money more than anything else though. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
i'd love to have byrd, but there's no money if he wants that kind of payday. not here, not this year.
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Re: Who are your starting Safeties
[quote=Chico23231;1019960]I know Ive been saying and will continue to say it, Tanard Jackson needs to come asap. He can play both safety positions folks. If Merriweather isnt right, I wouldnt mind sliding Rambo inside at SS and T Jax at the Free spot.[/quote]
Doughty is a much superior SS to Rambo today, and probably for the 2013 campaign. The only thing Rambo has right now is speed/range i.e. if Doughty had that speed/range he'd be our starting FS without a doubt. Our problem is we don't have a solid FS, unless Rambo improves rapidly or Jackson comes back. |
Re: Who are your starting Safeties
I'd be interested to know who thought Jordan Pugh should start. That's an...interesting proposition.
Edit: Ahhh...never mind. It was RedskinRat. |
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