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[quote=Chico23231;1057175]Funny thing is Russell Wilson numbers passing are much stronger than Luck's this year. Luck would be the knee jerk pick as best passer when thrown into the young QB discussion (Wilson, RG3, Kap, Luck).

And lets not talk about intangibles, thats why I would chose Wilson easily over Cutler, Romo, Dalton, A Smith, Schaub, etc.[/quote]

Russell is a winner. That being said, I do think he does have an easier time not being pressed to throw for 400 yards a game when he has an elite defense and really good running game. Some of these other teams where they don't have those things require the qb to be able to pass all game long to win, or die trying.

His numbers are Alex smith like which is y I compare the 2, both are game managers which is nothing wrong with that. Again with luck, if u put him on Seattle he's deadly with an actual RB and Def. Same as griff IMO. Guess only time will tell

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Looks like we will be splishy splashy in the FA waters again this year.

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10343374/washington-redskins-active-free-agency-gm-bruce-allen-says]Washington Redskins will be active in free agency, GM Bruce Allen says - ESPN[/url]

[QUOTE=SkinzWin;1057179]Looks like we will be splishy splashy in the FA waters again this year.

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10343374/washington-redskins-active-free-agency-gm-bruce-allen-says]Washington Redskins will be active in free agency, GM Bruce Allen says - ESPN[/url][/QUOTE]

We have to be hell we have no talent

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[quote=Paintrain;1057165]According to JLC Fred Davis is facing a 6 game drug suspension. Later for that clown.[/quote]

He never learns. A big dummy.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1057178]His numbers are Alex smith like which is y I compare the 2, both are game managers which is nothing wrong with that. Again with luck, if u put him on Seattle he's deadly with an actual RB and Def. Same as griff IMO. Guess only time will tell[/quote]

But im pulling Wilson numbers from this year in comparison to others and they measure better than most. Did Seattle play an easy schedule this season, nope...

Luck threw some of the worse INTs ive ever seen in the playoffs. He wasnt very good.

And please dont bring that if Luck was on a better team, BS. Folks remember Indy was a playoff team for years, had one bad season and were back in the playoffs the next. Season vetern playoff team. Luck has a much better team than given credit for.

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[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000316562/article/gruden-making-rgiii-a-pocket-passer-would-be-foolish]Jay Gruden: 'Foolish' to make RGIII a pocket passer - NFL.com[/url]

[quote]"I'm not going to try to turn RGIII into Andy Dalton or Drew Brees. He isn't them. They're not him. I would be foolish to try to turn RGIII into a pocket passer. It would be foolish. The way he is as a runner, we have to take advantage of that. He strikes fear into defensive coordinators when he runs outside. I'm going to let him be himself."[/quote]


So, he wants to use RGIII in a way that Shanahan did, which Robert absolutely hated. RGIII wants to be a pocket passer, and he hated the read option plays. Now you have a coach who's already not on the same page as his "franchise" QB in terms of direction. This is going to be a cluster fuck.


What the hell is with bringing all these guys in from Tampa Bay. Doug Williams? What exactly about his career (beyond player) as a coach/personnel guy that makes him qualified to be in this organization. We are NOT going in the right direction.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1057184]He never learns. A big dummy.[/QUOTE]

Can we flush the dude now, please?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

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I don't think he's saying, "Let's go apeshit with the read-option." I think he's saying more like Wilson/Rogers. I see those guys using their mobility to make big PASS plays happen. They evade behind the LOS and throw bombs. THAT'S where RG3 can make big things happen.

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[quote=RedskinRat;1057189]Can we flush the dude now, please?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk[/quote]

That man must LOVE weed.

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[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1057192]That man must LOVE weed.[/quote]


Explains sleeping in meetings and his lack of, well, moving and catching on the field.


What a waste of talent. He COULD have been one of the top TEs in the NFL if he didn't decide to smoke his life and career away.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1057183]We have to be hell we have no talent[/quote]

And we also have the money to do it.


I trust Bruce a hell of a lot more than Vinny with Dan's money.

Man, the Facebook comments on that ESPN article were painful to read. First one..."RGIII is a bust!"

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[quote=NC_Skins;1057187][URL="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000316562/article/gruden-making-rgiii-a-pocket-passer-would-be-foolish"]Jay Gruden: 'Foolish' to make RGIII a pocket passer - NFL.com[/URL]




So, he wants to use RGIII in a way that Shanahan did, which Robert absolutely hated. RGIII wants to be a pocket passer, and he hated the read option plays. Now you have a coach who's already not on the same page as his "franchise" QB in terms of direction. This is going to be a cluster fuck.


What the hell is with bringing all these guys in from Tampa Bay. Doug Williams? What exactly about his career (beyond player) as a coach/personnel guy that makes him qualified to be in this organization. We are NOT going in the right direction.[/quote]

He said 3-4 RO plays a game. Nothing crazy. Put away the jump to conclusions mat.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1057187][url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000316562/article/gruden-making-rgiii-a-pocket-passer-would-be-foolish]Jay Gruden: 'Foolish' to make RGIII a pocket passer - NFL.com[/url]




So, he wants to use RGIII in a way that Shanahan did, which Robert absolutely hated. RGIII wants to be a pocket passer, and he hated the read option plays. Now you have a coach who's already not on the same page as his "franchise" QB in terms of direction. This is going to be a cluster fuck.


What the hell is with bringing all these guys in from Tampa Bay. Doug Williams? What exactly about his career (beyond player) as a coach/personnel guy that makes him qualified to be in this organization. We are NOT going in the right direction.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I don't get this whole Tampa shit, and Doug Williams got fired at grambling so how is he qualified for an NFL job?? I agree I don't think we will be any good under Dan , I've lost all faith in the franchise, sorry to admit it but I have. I'm a fan of course and I'll watch but I'm not excited about the future at all. Mike and co. Killed it for me.

[QUOTE=Monkeydad;1057199]And we also have the money to do it.


I trust Bruce a hell of a lot more than Vinny with Dan's money.

Man, the Facebook comments on that ESPN article were painful to read. First one..."RGIII is a bust!"[/QUOTE]

Yeah he's a bust alright.... Idiots

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[quote=NC_Skins;1057187][URL="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000316562/article/gruden-making-rgiii-a-pocket-passer-would-be-foolish"]Jay Gruden: 'Foolish' to make RGIII a pocket passer - NFL.com[/URL]




So, he wants to use RGIII in a way that Shanahan did, which Robert absolutely hated. RGIII wants to be a pocket passer, and he hated the read option plays. Now you have a coach who's already not on the same page as his "franchise" QB in terms of direction. This is going to be a cluster fuck.


What the hell is with bringing all these guys in from Tampa Bay. Doug Williams? What exactly about his career (beyond player) as a coach/personnel guy that makes him qualified to be in this organization. We are NOT going in the right direction.[/quote]

Bruce Allen did some good things in Tampa Bay as the GM. He also had Oakland as a SB contender for many years. All around the league people bring in who they're comfortable with. Let's give it a chance.

As far as RG3...what does he do better at this point of his career? Stand in the pocket and be Tom Brady? Or run zone read option? I'm sure Gruden has plans to improve him in being a better passer but it would be silly not to use his mobility. RG3 also needs to just do what the coach says and keep his mouth shut. Wilson, Kap and Newton run read option. Are they complaining? No.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1057201]Yeah I don't get this whole Tampa shit, and [B]Doug Williams got fired at grambling so how is he qualified for an NFL job??[/B] I agree I don't think we will be any good under Dan , I've lost all faith in the franchise, sorry to admit it but I have. I'm a fan of course and I'll watch but I'm not excited about the future at all. Mike and co. Killed it for me.[/quote]

Context is everything. Williams was fired at Grambling because he accepted a donation from a program supporter to upgrade their facilities and the school president said the funds should have been applied to the general fund of the university. [url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000269854/article/doug-williams-says-fundraising-groups-were-reason-for-his-firing]Doug Williams says fundraising groups were reason for his firing - NFL.com[/url]

He also served 6 years for the Bucs in their front office including the Director of Pro Scouting before going back to Grambling as the coach. [url=http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/doug-williams-tampa-bay-buccaneers-split-for-a-second-time/1094335]Doug Williams, Tampa Bay Buccaneers split for a second time | Tampa Bay Times[/url]

I get the skepticism of all things under Snyder (though I don't get the Allen skepticism yet) but a little accuracy in the conversation can't be a bad thing.

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[quote=Paintrain;1057205]Context is everything. Williams was fired at Grambling because he accepted a donation from a program supporter to upgrade their facilities and the school president said the funds should have been applied to the general fund of the university. [url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000269854/article/doug-williams-says-fundraising-groups-were-reason-for-his-firing]Doug Williams says fundraising groups were reason for his firing - NFL.com[/url]

He also served 6 years for the Bucs in their front office including the Director of Pro Scouting before going back to Grambling as the coach. [url=http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/doug-williams-tampa-bay-buccaneers-split-for-a-second-time/1094335]Doug Williams, Tampa Bay Buccaneers split for a second time | Tampa Bay Times[/url]

I get the skepticism of all things under Snyder (though I don't get the Allen skepticism yet) but a little accuracy in the conversation can't be a bad thing.[/quote]

Thank you. Well said.

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Gruden: "It's a 16-game grind. You don't want him getting hit 15, 20 times a game on read options. You have to keep your stars healthy."

"I don't anticipate running a lot of read option," he said. "I think if you use it three or four times a game, you'll have more success than if you try to feature your whole offense around it. It's not just tough on the quarterback taking hits, it's tough on the tackles with their aiming points, where are they going. It's something you have to practice a lot to get very good at."

"My goal in training camp is to see how much he can develop as a drop-back passer."

[url=http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/66930520]Jay Gruden wants RGIII to succeed in the pocket. | SportsonEarth.com : Dan Pompei Article[/url]

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I don't think RG3 is cut out to be a purely pocket passer. I think we need to almost completely ditch the RO, but keep bootlegs and rollouts, which still showcases RG3's running ability if need be.

There are pocket passers, balanced and scramblers. If RG3 doesn't want to be a scrambler, he needs to be a balanced guy.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1057201]Yeah I don't get this whole Tampa shit, and Doug Williams got fired at grambling so how is he qualified for an NFL job?? I agree I don't think we will be any good under Dan , I've lost all faith in the franchise, sorry to admit it but I have. I'm a fan of course and I'll watch but I'm not excited about the future at all. Mike and co. Killed it for me.[/quote]

I think that bringing Doug Williams into the FO would be an outstanding move. Adding trained eyes and expertise regarding talent can only help.

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[quote=DynamiteRave;1057209]I don't think RG3 is cut out to be a purely pocket passer. I think we need to almost completely ditch the RO, but keep bootlegs and rollouts, which still showcases RG3's running ability if need be.

There are pocket passers, balanced and scramblers. If RG3 doesn't want to be a scrambler, he needs to be a balanced guy.[/quote]

Would you say that Aaron Rodgers is "balanced"? I think that Rodgers is a good model for Gryphon's development.

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Honestly, people need to chill the f*ck out about what is going on this offseason. Jay Gruden is hiring people from his network, just like every other NFL HC does. Bruce Allen is doing the same with the front office. It happens all the time in the NFL and most of the time outside the NFL.

Allen has been a competent GM in his career and so far I'm fine with most of the things he has done with the team. He's not Vinny Cerrator or Jerry Jones. The fanbase b*tched 24/7 about how we didn't have a true GM or we didn't have football people running the team. Well, we now have both (we even had that during MS tenure here).

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[quote=Mattyk;1057208]Gruden: "It's a 16-game grind. You don't want him getting hit 15, 20 times a game on read options. You have to keep your stars healthy."

"I don't anticipate running a lot of read option," he said. "I think if you use it three or four times a game, you'll have more success than if you try to feature your whole offense around it. It's not just tough on the quarterback taking hits, it's tough on the tackles with their aiming points, where are they going. It's something you have to practice a lot to get very good at."

"My goal in training camp is to see how much he can develop as a drop-back passer."

[url=http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/66930520]Jay Gruden wants RGIII to succeed in the pocket. | SportsonEarth.com : Dan Pompei Article[/url][/quote]
I think part of the confusion is that he told King that he'd be foolish to turn RG3 into a 'pocket passer' but then told Pompeii that he needs to develop him as a 'drop back passer'. Those are two different skills.

I got from it that he wants to develop the 'drop back' skillset, proper footwork, reading defenses, going thru progressions, etc. but not turn him into a 'pocket' passer standing there patting the ball while the play develops.

I don't think he will be calling many QB runs or read option plays at all.

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[quote=Lotus;1057211]Would you say that Aaron Rodgers is "balanced"? I think that Rodgers is a good model for Gryphon's development.[/quote]

I think most QBs are balanced.. The only purely pocket passers in the league (guys you want to throw first and run last) I think are:

Peyton
Brady
Worthlisberger
Flacco

Maybe others to be added.

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[quote=Ruhskins;1057212][B]Honestly, people need to chill the f*ck out about what is going on this offseason[/B]. Jay Gruden is hiring people from his network, just like every other NFL HC does. Bruce Allen is doing the same with the front office. It happens all the time in the NFL and most of the time outside the NFL.

Allen has been a competent GM in his career and so far I'm fine with most of the things he has done with the team. He's not Vinny Cerrator or Jerry Jones. The fanbase b*tched 24/7 about how we didn't have a true GM or we didn't have football people running the team. Well, we now have both (we even had that during MS tenure here).[/quote]

Its the offseason, you know how we roll. Waiting on: Haynesworth thread, "Trade RG3 for 10 draft picks" thread, etc.

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[quote=DynamiteRave;1057215]I think most QBs are balanced.. The only purely pocket passers in the league (guys you want to throw first and run last) I think are:

Peyton
Brady
Worthlisberger
Flacco

Maybe others to be added.[/quote]

Brees
Rivers
Palmer
M. Ryan

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[quote=Ruhskins;1057212]Honestly, people need to chill the f*ck out about what is going on this offseason. Jay Gruden is hiring people from his network, just like every other NFL HC does. Bruce Allen is doing the same with the front office. It happens all the time in the NFL and most of the time outside the NFL.

Allen has been a competent GM in his career and so far I'm fine with most of the things he has done with the team. He's not Vinny Cerrator or Jerry Jones. The fanbase b*tched 24/7 about how we didn't have a true GM or we didn't have football people running the team. Well, we now have both (we even had that during MS tenure here).[/quote]

This x 10

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[quote=Chico23231;1057217]Its the offseason, you know how we roll. Waiting on: Haynesworth thread, "Trade RG3 for 10 draft picks" thread, etc.[/quote]

I expect pointless threads. It's just hearing this over and over again is getting old:

"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden is Zorn 2.0!"
"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden is hiring people he knows!"
"Waaaaaaaaaa! Bruce Allen is hiring everyone from Tampa!"
"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden just said something that must mean everything is going to hell!"

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1057201]Yeah I don't get this whole Tampa shit, and Doug Williams got fired at grambling so how is he qualified for an NFL job?? I agree I don't think we will be any good under Dan , I've lost all faith in the franchise, sorry to admit it but I have. I'm a fan of course and I'll watch but I'm not excited about the future at all. Mike and co. Killed it for me.[/quote]

Allen had success with the model and personnel before. I guess we have to trust that he knows the recipe for success and he's just trying to duplicate it, albeit with different J. Gruden.

If we could get our defense built to the caliber of the "Tampa 2" defense led by Barber, Sapp, Brooks, Rice, Kelly, Lych...we'll be lucky.

Doug Willliams might not be a bad idea as a QB coach/mentor or with a role in the front office. He HAS had success on several levels and that wasn't the reason he was fired at Grambling. The team dominated in his first stint, 4 straight conference titles, going 40-8 in those years...52-18 overall. The program obviously had issues his second time around based on how it ended.


I would not be surprised to see him come in. Allen seems to have a thing for Redskins history with comments he's made when hired.

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[quote=Ruhskins;1057224]I expect pointless threads. It's just hearing this over and over again is getting old:

[B]"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden is hiring people he knows!" [/B]
[B]"Waaaaaaaaaa! Bruce Allen is hiring everyone from Tampa!" [/B]
"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden just said something that must mean everything is going to hell!"[/quote]

It really amazes me people are hung up on this stuff. Look around at every coaching staff and front office and tell me this isn't par for the course. Look at the staff that just left here FFS. Shanny had "his guys" all over the place including his son. Gibbs 2.0 also included a bunch of his former coaches.

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[quote=Ruhskins;1057219]Brees
Rivers
Palmer
M. Ryan[/quote]



Carson Palmer threw for 4200 yards and ran for 3 last year. :D

Matthew Stafford doesn't have to run, just throw to Calvin.

Bradford would get hurt if he tried to run.

Eli Manning ran for 36 yards last year. Romo, despite always running for his life all year, only managed 38 rushing yards total...he runs backwards most of the time.

Can we count Schaub and Gabbert as starting QBs any more? They do not run.


There are still more statues playing QB than we thought.

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[quote=Mattyk;1057200]He said 3-4 RO plays a game. Nothing crazy. Put away the jump to conclusions mat.[/quote]


Well his quote that trying to make RGIII a pocket passer is foolish doesn't square with what RGIII has in mind. This is what I'm referring to, not that we'll be running the RO often. Look, I've been hearing tweets from LL/httr24-7 even from 2012 about how Robert wanted to be known as a pocket passer and he wasn't down with using him as a runner. Something doesn't give here between the quote and RGIII wishes.

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[quote=Mattyk;1057227]It really amazes me people are hung up on this stuff. Look around at every coaching staff and front office and tell me this isn't par for the course. Look at the staff that just left here FFS. Shanny had "his guys" all over the place including his son. Gibbs 2.0 also included a bunch of his former coaches.[/quote]

Honestly, I'm shocked we didn't have this times a thousand when Gibbs was hired considering how long both he AND his assistants had been out of the game.

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[quote=Ruhskins;1057224]I expect pointless threads. It's just hearing this over and over again is getting old:

"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden is Zorn 2.0!"
"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden is hiring people he knows!"
"Waaaaaaaaaa! Bruce Allen is hiring everyone from Tampa!"
"Waaaaaaaaa! Jay Gruden just said something that must mean everything is going to hell!"[/quote]



You forgot:

"Waaaaaaaaaaaa! Redskins fans are voicing their displeasure again!"


Nothing worse than bitching about the bitchers. :silly:

For the record. I like Jay Gruden and I don't mind he's hiring people he knows. My only qualm here is two things. (maybe three)

1) Jim Haslett still DC
2) Bringing in Doug Williams. Nothing about his career says otherwise.
3) Bruce Allen making personnel decisions. (this is if he overrides our personnel guys)

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[quote=NC_Skins;1057265]Well his quote that trying to make RGIII a pocket passer is foolish doesn't square with what RGIII has in mind. This is what I'm referring to, not that we'll be running the RO often. Look, I've been hearing tweets from LL/httr24-7 even from 2012 about how Robert wanted to be known as a pocket passer and he wasn't down with using him as a runner. Something doesn't give here between the quote and RGIII wishes.[/quote]

I don't think Griffin is against running. He scrambles enough on his own to tell you how he really feels about running. I think the plan in year 1 was to ease up on the read option as the season went on and develop him more in the pocket, but because of the crazy success they had that plan went out the window.

You did see Gruden's other quotes right?

"My goal in training camp is to see how much he can develop as a drop-back passer," Gruden said. "Obviously he can do the rollouts and the naked bootlegs and all that. But let's see what he can do from the pocket, and if he can run from there, that's when he'll really get a lot of yards."

"There comes a point in a season, in a game, when you have to do some dropback passing," he said. "You are going to have third-and-12 where you can run read option or a bubble screen. If you are down two touchdowns late in the third quarter, you have to be able to be a dropback passing team. You have to have that part established. So we really want to focus on that, teach him some concepts we like and have at it."

"It's a long season," Gruden said. "It's a 16-game grind. You don't want him getting hit 15, 20 times a game on read options. You have to keep your stars healthy. You don't want to put him at risk too much. But that's who he is. It's what he is as a quarterback. He's very effective in that regard."

"I don't anticipate running a lot of read option," he said. "I think if you use it three or four times a game, you'll have more success than if you try to feature your whole offense around it. It's not just tough on the quarterback taking hits, it's tough on the tackles with their aiming points, where are they going. It's something you have to practice a lot to get very good at."

"From a talent standpoint as far as throwing the ball I don't see a lot of weaknesses," Gruden said. "It's just that he hasn't been asked to do a lot of different things as far as the drop-back passing game is concerned. I don't know if he is going to have any limitations. He might not have any. We'll wait and see."

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[quote=NC_Skins;1057267]You forgot:

"Waaaaaaaaaaaa! Redskins fans are voicing their displeasure again!"


Nothing worse than bitching about the bitchers. :silly:

For the record. I like Jay Gruden and I don't mind he's hiring people he knows. My only qualm here is two things. (maybe three)

1) Jim Haslett still DC
[B][I]2) Bringing in Doug Williams. Nothing about his career says otherwise.[/I][/B]
3) Bruce Allen making personnel decisions. (this is if he overrides our personnel guys)[/quote]
6 years in the Bucs front office doesn't 'say otherwise'? Director of Pro Scouting doesn't 'say otherwise'?

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[quote=Mattyk;1057268]I don't think Griffin is against running. He scrambles enough on his own to tell you how he really feels about running. I think the plan in year 1 was to ease up on the read option as the season went on and develop him more in the pocket, but because of the crazy success they had that plan went out the window.

You did see Gruden's other quotes right?

"My goal in training camp is to see how much he can develop as a drop-back passer," Gruden said. "Obviously he can do the rollouts and the naked bootlegs and all that. But let's see what he can do from the pocket, and if he can run from there, that's when he'll really get a lot of yards."

"There comes a point in a season, in a game, when you have to do some dropback passing," he said. "You are going to have third-and-12 where you can run read option or a bubble screen. If you are down two touchdowns late in the third quarter, you have to be able to be a dropback passing team. You have to have that part established. So we really want to focus on that, teach him some concepts we like and have at it."

"It's a long season," Gruden said. "It's a 16-game grind. You don't want him getting hit 15, 20 times a game on read options. You have to keep your stars healthy. You don't want to put him at risk too much. But that's who he is. It's what he is as a quarterback. He's very effective in that regard."

"I don't anticipate running a lot of read option," he said. "I think if you use it three or four times a game, you'll have more success than if you try to feature your whole offense around it. It's not just tough on the quarterback taking hits, it's tough on the tackles with their aiming points, where are they going. It's something you have to practice a lot to get very good at."

"From a talent standpoint as far as throwing the ball I don't see a lot of weaknesses," Gruden said. "It's just that he hasn't been asked to do a lot of different things as far as the drop-back passing game is concerned. I don't know if he is going to have any limitations. He might not have any. We'll wait and see."[/quote]

I understand this. It just solidifies my notion that the comment about it being "foolish to make RGIII a pocker passer" is indeed foolish itself.

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[quote=Paintrain;1057270]6 years in the Bucs front office doesn't 'say otherwise'? Director of Pro Scouting doesn't 'say otherwise'?[/quote]

I suggest you look at those drafts during that time. Complete garbage. Ask Raheem Morris. He inherited that shit team.

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[quote=NC_Skins;1057271]I understand this. It just solidifies my notion that the comment about it being "foolish to make RGIII a pocker passer" is indeed foolish itself.[/quote]

It would be foolish to make him operate like a Manning or Brady is what I believe he meant.

You're getting way too caught up in one liners.