Around the NFL Week 3
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1149811]Please look at his time at Cleveland. Coaching a HOF QB helps the resume.[/QUOTE]



Or a third stringer.....or matt cassell....
He is the GOAT. Maybe Brady has benefited from him.
Also took Cleveland to the playoffs one of those four years. Was basically a .500 record. Not exactly a complete disaster. Was his first gig as head coach.

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He has one winning record without Tom Brady.

Around the NFL Week 3
 

Does right now count? Its pretty obvious to the entire world that it doesn't matter who plays qb for them. They win.
Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Landry , Lombardi, Gibbs - all the great coaches have had shit tons of hof'ers all over the field. Id argue that BB has had the least amount of talent associated with his championship teams actually. Look I don't like the guy, but Im not going to deny his greatness....

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Belicheck is the best coach I have seen.

Re: Around the NFL Week 3
 

[quote=punch it in;1149819]Does right now count? Its pretty obvious to the entire world that it doesn't matter who plays qb for them. They win.
Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Landry , Lombardi, Gibbs - all the great coaches have had shit tons of hof'ers all over the field. Id argue that BB has had the least amount of talent associated with his championship teams actually. Look I don't like the guy, but Im not going to deny his greatness....[/quote]

I am not denying his greatness, but I would not trade the Redskins Jay Gruden for the Cleveland Browns Bill Belichick. During his tenure in Cleveland he compiled a 36–44 record. Two years later he is the head coach of New England and they draft Tom Brady. Together they have 15 consecutive winning seasons.

I just can't say he is the GOAT. I can not tell you he is better than Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, Vince Lombardi, Joe Gibbs, Don Shula, Bill Parcells, etc... You need three things to win in the NFL. Talent, Coaching, and Quality ownership.

Based on the coaches above, only Gibbs and Parcells won a Superbowl without a HOF QB. Chuck Noll and Tom Landry had teams that were loaded with HOF talent. Who drafted the talent? I can't tell you, because it was before my time. I find it difficult to compare today's game to the games I watch growing up.

Just my Monday evening ramblings.

Around the NFL Week 3
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1149821]I am not denying his greatness, but I would not trade the Redskins Jay Gruden for the Cleveland Browns Bill Belichick. During his tenure in Cleveland he compiled a 36–44 record. Two years later he is the head coach of New England and they draft Tom Brady. Together they have 15 consecutive winning seasons.



I just can't say he is the GOAT. I can not tell you he is better than Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, Vince Lombardi, Joe Gibbs, Don Shula, Bill Parcells, etc... You need three things to win in the NFL. Talent, Coaching, and Quality ownership.



Based on the coaches above, only Gibbs and Parcells won a Superbowl without a HOF QB. Chuck Noll and Tom Landry had teams that were loaded with HOF talent. Who drafted the talent? I can't tell you, because it was before my time. I find it difficult to compare today's game to the games I watch growing up.



Just my Monday evening ramblings.[/QUOTE]



Lets not put it all on a qb though. See the 85 Bears, or the Ray Lewis led Ravens. Skins had Monk, Green, Riggo, the Hogs, etc.
They are all great coaches. And again maybe BB has made Brady who he is. Do you think if Brady was drafted by the Skins he would be a first ballot hof'er? Maybe but maybe not.
Oh n I would trade Gruden for Belichicks dog. Lol

Edit: and thank you im enjoying this debate much more than the clown circus that is embarrassing my country on tv rite now!

Re: Around the NFL Week 3
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1149820]Belicheck is the best coach I have seen.[/quote]

I guess you didn't see Joe Gibbs.

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the saints, browns and bears all have a chance to go 1-15.... NO defense is as bad as its ever been!

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[quote=punch it in;1149822]Lets not put it all on a qb though. See the 85 Bears, or the Ray Lewis led Ravens. Skins had Monk, Green, Riggo, the Hogs, etc.
They are all great coaches. And again maybe BB has made Brady who he is. Do you think if Brady was drafted by the Skins he would be a first ballot hof'er? Maybe but maybe not.
Oh n I would trade Gruden for Belichicks dog. Lol

Edit: and thank you im enjoying this debate much more than the clown circus that is embarrassing my country on tv rite now![/quote]

I can't argue the Ray Lewis led Ravens, in the Superbowl, Dilfer was 12 of 25 for 153 yards one touchdown and one fumble. One the other side of the coin, Barry Switzer was 40 - 24 with a Superbowl win. I am confident Troy Aiken had more to do with winning than Switzer. Jerry could have hired Steve Spurrier and won a Superbowl with all the talent.

I can't tell you Brady would have been a HOF QB with the Redskins. He would have been coached by Gibbs and Co, but I am sure Vinny would have somehow ruined his career.

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#Cowboys OG La'El Collins needs surgery on his foot and will be placed on IR, per source

Re: Around the NFL Week 3
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1149825]



I but I am sure Vinny would have somehow ruined his career.[/QUOTE]


We have reached a common ground....[emoji2]

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Did you see La'El Collins get blown up by the Bears Nick Kwiatkoski LB?

[url=http://westvirginia.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-Kwiatkoski-Starts-Blows-Up-Cowboys-on-SNF-47783069]WATCH: Kwiatkoski Starts, Blows Up Cowboys on SNF[/url]

Re: Around the NFL Week 3
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1149829]Did you see La'El Collins get blown up by the Bears Nick Kwiatkoski LB?

[url=http://westvirginia.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-Kwiatkoski-Starts-Blows-Up-Cowboys-on-SNF-47783069]WATCH: Kwiatkoski Starts, Blows Up Cowboys on SNF[/url][/quote]

#Cowboys OG La'El Collins needs surgery on his foot and will be placed on IR, per source

Re: Around the NFL Week 3
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1149827]#Cowboys OG La'El Collins needs surgery on his foot and will be placed on IR, per source[/quote]

big blow to them, hes a beast

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[quote=OmahaRedskins;1149811]Please look at his time at Cleveland. Coaching a HOF QB helps the resume.[/quote]

He is a great hc. Please stop.

Re: Around the NFL Week 3
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1149811]Please look at his time at Cleveland. Coaching a HOF QB helps the resume.[/quote]

yeah and Bill Walsh went 8-24 in his first two years with the 9ers and
Tom Landry didnt post a winning record in Dallas until his 6th season!

I dont think anyone actually believes Tom Brady has somehow been a more vital part of the Patriots success than BB. He probably would have won a few Superbowls with a healthy Drew Bledsoe.

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furthermore, you said it yourself, it takes a blend of quality players, coaches and front office to find success. Tom Bradys greatness doesn't discredit Bill Belichick's greatness the same way Montanas doesn't discredit Walsh's...

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[quote=skinsfan69;1149835]He is a great hc. Please stop.[/quote]

Please read the whole conversation before commenting.

Thank you.

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[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1149870]Please read the whole conversation before commenting.



Thank you.[/QUOTE]



In all fairness though the post he quoted...your first about BB was a total bash. You also said he has one winning season without Brady...that does sound like you are doubting his greatness.

Re: Around the NFL Week 3
 

[quote=punch it in;1149871]In all fairness though the post he quoted...your first about BB was a total bash. You also said he has one winning season without Brady...that does sound like you are doubting his greatness.[/quote]

It is a bash at the Hoodie, but does not mean I do not respect what he has accomplished over the last 16 years. People forget he was considered a failure at Cleveland, and got the job at New England because of Bill Parcells.

You can not discount he had one winning season in six years. He went 5 - 13 with Drew Bledsoe at QB. Then he goes 188 - 90 with Tom Brady.

He is a great coach, but having a HOF QB helps the resume.

Re: Around the NFL Week 3
 

[QUOTE=Swarley;1149858]furthermore, you said it yourself, it takes a blend of quality players, coaches and front office to find success. Tom Bradys greatness doesn't discredit Bill Belichick's greatness the same way Montanas doesn't discredit Walsh's...[/QUOTE]



Also if we look at entire rosters (not just qb) through the years of say the Steelers, Cowboys, Niners, Skins, and Patriots - it is really not even close as far as talent. Think about the hof'ers alone on those teams other than the Pats. It is mind boggling. The Pats have had a handful of players that caliber but come on...
I dont even have to name names, Franco, Lott, Dorsett, Swann, Lambert, Rice, it just goes on n on n on....

Around the NFL Week 3
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1149872]It is a bash at the Hoodie, but does not mean I do not respect what he has accomplished over the last 16 years. People forget he was considered a failure at Cleveland, and got the job at New England because of Bill Parcells.



You can not discount he had one winning season in six years. He went 5 - 13 with Drew Bledsoe at QB. Then he goes 188 - 90 with Tom Brady.



He is a great coach, but having a HOF QB helps the resume.[/QUOTE]



Who cares why he got the job. Lol. Its all networking. Look at our own head coach. Think he knows people in the league or they were just so impressed with his arena league prowess?
Alot of coaches struggle early on - especially in places like Cleveland.
Look of course Brady has bought something to the table. Lol. No doubt.
However I think being in New England under BB's watch has been greatly more beneficial to Brady, (who btw was almost not even drafted, and was the Pats fourth stringer when he came to BB), than Brady has been beneficial to BB. 11-5 with Matt freaking Cassell - what happened to that guy? Look at the hear and now. Pats 3-0. Will be 4-0. Brady is watching. You could plug in many average qb's over the last 16 years in New England and BB still has ringS.

One more thing - when BB took over that team that went 5-11 it wasn't even his guys. He was given complete control and it took him one year to get his type of players in there and win a superbowl with a no name out of Michigan.

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[quote=punch it in;1149873]Also if we look at entire rosters (not just qb) through the years of say the Steelers, Cowboys, Niners, Skins, and Patriots - it is really not even close as far as talent. Think about the hof'ers alone on those teams other than the Pats. It is mind boggling. The Pats have had a handful of players that caliber but come on...
I dont even have to name names, Franco, Lott, Dorsett, Swann, Lambert, Rice, it just goes on n on n on....[/quote]

I can't argue; Tom Brady, Willie McGinest, and Vince Wilfork have been the only constant HOF players on the roster. There have been others that have been on the team, but they were not there very long. Reeves, Moss, Junior Seau, etc...

Re: Around the NFL Week 3
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1149882]I can't argue; Tom Brady, Willie McGinest, and Vince Wilfork have been the only constant HOF players on the roster. There have been others that have been on the team, but they were not there very long. Reeves, Moss, Junior Seau, etc...[/QUOTE]



Right....Vrabel, Welker, Vinateri, Bruschi - we have literally rattled off the best of the best over the last 16 years. Law and Milloy...pretty much it.

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Right now on the NFL Channel - The 10 Patriots.

Around the NFL Week 3
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1149886]Right now on the NFL Channel - The 10 Patriots.[/QUOTE]



Thats funny...Russ Francis gotta be on there.

Just looked at the list. Im surprised. But cant argue with those ten guys,....
Edit: forgot Francis was in san fran for all those years too...