Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

I think if Belichick was given full control here he'd turn things around. The two areas where he's hands down better than Gruden are game management and attention to detail. Those two things alone are probably worth 2 more wins.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

An example of lack of detail / Gruden... at the end of the Saints game we had two players off the line standing around doing nothing on that last FG. Why wasn't a FG block called? What good was it having guys standing around on the last play of the game like they were waiting for a fake? It's things like that that tell me he's not top HC material.

We've also been behind late in games and he's having the offense huddle. Just basic simple things where he lacks awareness.

Idk...I've just seen enough to know he's just an average coach. If I'm Snyder I'm canning Gruden and the guy that hired him, or remove Bruce from any football decisions. Get on the phone w/ Harbaugh cause he's proven, offer whatever it takes to get him.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1182145]An example of lack of detail / Gruden... at the end of the Saints game we had two players off the line standing around doing nothing on that last FG. Why wasn't a FG block called? What good was it having guys standing around on the last play of the game like they were waiting for a fake? It's things like that that tell me he's not top HC material.

We've also been behind late in games and he's having the offense huddle. Just basic simple things where he lacks awareness.

Idk...I've just seen enough to know he's just an average coach. If I'm Snyder I'm canning Gruden and the guy that hired him, or remove Bruce from any football decisions. Get on the phone w/ Harbaugh cause he's proven, offer whatever it takes to get him.[/QUOTE]Jay just looks lost most games, he has that "shit what do I do now " look. I think he's a good coach but is more like a Garrett, someone that can get u to the playoffs here and there but isn't like an Andy Reid where he is consistently a winner. The whole season was jacked by a drama filled OS once again. This team loves drama.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Bit of good news, trying to extend Zach Brown.

[url]https://247sports.com/nfl/washington-redskins/Bolt/Report-Redskins-working-to-extend-Zach-Brown-111611006[/url]

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;1182142]Everyone keeps saying, "If you keep Jay, you'll continue mediocrity."

Kind of like elite QBs, there aren't many elite coaches out there either. Obviously it's all a package deal. Could Gruden go into Philly right now and do what they're doing? I would like to think so. As I said in another thread, could Belichek come down here and fix us? Probably not. It's a mixture of talent, coaching and intangibles, and it's rare when you can just fire a coach, get another, and suddenly be amazing.[/QUOTE]Good post. It's not like we're a dumpster fire, we're almost there, the things that make us lose are stupid mistakes that are fixable in one off season.

The fact that we almost beat the saints with all the injuries we have says we shouldn't swipe it all IMO.

Envoyé de mon SM-J320FN en utilisant Tapatalk

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1182159]Bit of good news, trying to extend Zach Brown.

[url]https://247sports.com/nfl/washington-redskins/Bolt/Report-Redskins-working-to-extend-Zach-Brown-111611006[/url][/quote]

Good move by the FO.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

I have come to conclusion and say give Jay 1 more yr. If it's another bad season then he's done. I'll give Him the injuries this yr.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

This probably belongs in another thread, but I just read on ESPN that Trent Williams is going to grind out the rest of the season, knowing he is going to have surgery as soon as the season ends.

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins]Washington Redskins- ESPN[/url]

If this is true, this is so damn stupid. Surgeries have complications all the time and the extra recovery time would increase the odds he is 100% at the beginning of next season.

We literally have nothing to play for, there are tons of people on IR, and we don't put one of our top players who will 100% have to have a surgical procedure on IR. Infuriating!

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1182165]This probably belongs in another thread, but I just read on ESPN that Trent Williams is going to grind out the rest of the season, knowing he is going to have surgery as soon as the season ends.

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins]Washington Redskins- ESPN[/url]

If this is true, this is so damn stupid. Surgeries have complications all the time and the extra recovery time would increase the odds he is 100% at the beginning of next season.

We literally have nothing to play for, there are tons of people on IR, and we don't put one of our top players who will 100% have to have a surgical procedure on IR. Infuriating![/quote]

He should have the surgery now and be recovered by the start of next season

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1182130]We need a well-qualified, capable GM who has full authority over all football operations personnel. Only that person should evaluate Jay Gruden and make any decisions about Jay's future here. Until that happens, there is nothing to be gained by firing Jay. So I vote no.[/QUOTE]



Agreed. Firing Gruden now just reinforces the idea that Snyder and Allen are the true brain trust of the team while coaches are expendable commodities who come and go. If I thought either of them had a line on a true, proven A-list coach as a replacement for JG, then sure, go for it. But we all know that this is not the case. The Gruden replacement would be just another Gruden or likely worse.

The biggest Skins debacle in the past 10 years was betting the farm on RG3. Not only did we not get a QB out of that, but we lost a bunch of #1 picks. We are still paying for that in lack of depth. JG helped extricate us from that blunder and earned some independence and credibility with our FO. A new coach starts with neither.

And while I agree that Gruden has looked lost at times (maybe more like pissed off and frustrated), you also have to consider how fired up and prepared we were vs Raiders, Chiefs, and Saints. The absence of a running game and WRs, plus injuries, eventually doomed us, but I saw the start of something that looked like swagger; players were giving their all, they (including 2nd and 3rd stringers) just aren't that good.

The one player who has given us any hope is Cousins, developed mostly by Gruden. And if he goes, we'll need to develop another QB.

This doesn't mean I think JG is an A-list coach, just that he's got something going on that can be built on. The idea of blowing things up again and turning back to Snyder and Allen to fix it is desperate and delusional.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

A person with an offensive background should be able to draw a play in the dirt that can get a yard on 3rd & 1 or 4th & 1 yet Gruden can't. The Redskins are 3rd in total offensive yards, yet 14th in scoring, something is wrong with that picture. That and all the injuries, I think they are more than just coincidence. In the game against the Giants for every Giant that limped off the field 3 Redskins did. Can his butt if someone better is available.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

I think the argument that a 4 years win-loss record is enough to say he's not the guy needs to be thrown out.

Maybe you have other reasons to believe that Gruden isn't the right guy for the redskins, but his record should not be one of them. It is very rare for a head coach to come out and make a team a superbowl winner and perennial playoff contender in 4 years, look at these hall of cane coaches below.

Record in First 4 years as NFL head coach:

Bill Belichick- 36-44
Chuck Noll- 23-33
Bill Walsh- 24-33
Tom Landry- 13-38

Need I go on?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1182165]This probably belongs in another thread, but I just read on ESPN that Trent Williams is going to grind out the rest of the season, knowing he is going to have surgery as soon as the season ends.

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins]Washington Redskins- ESPN[/url]

If this is true, this is so damn stupid. Surgeries have complications all the time and the extra recovery time would increase the odds he is 100% at the beginning of next season.

We literally have nothing to play for, there are tons of people on IR, and we don't put one of our top players who will 100% have to have a surgical procedure on IR. Infuriating![/quote]

Not going to kill Trent for this cause he'll have plenty of time to heal up and be ready for training camp. He wants to be out there with his teammates to help try and win some games. That's what he's paid to do and I applaud him for that.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

I don’t buy it.
Those guys didn’t have franchise(hall of fame) QBs starting the first few years.

Walsh had Steve DeBerg but didn’t win till Montana played.
Noll had shit.
Landry had Meredith who was ok but not Roger Staubach.
Belichek and the Browns....

Gruden has his Franchise QB.
He has a pro bowl QB and deserves credit got getting KC to that level but we aren’t winning.

KC isn’t a HOF QB but he’s probably the best Gruden will ever get to work with as a HC.

Grudens time is now.

[quote=WillH;1182171]I think the argument that a 4 years win-loss record is enough to say he's not the guy needs to be thrown out.

Maybe you have other reasons to believe that Gruden isn't the right guy for the redskins, but his record should not be one of them. It is very rare for a head coach to come out and make a team a superbowl winner and perennial playoff contender in 4 years, look at these hall of cane coaches below.

Record in First 4 years as NFL head coach:

Bill Belichick- 36-44
Chuck Noll- 23-33
Bill Walsh- 24-33
Tom Landry- 13-38

Need I go on?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Yes. Jay is an Arena League amateur. The real question should be does he deserve to finish the season.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Yes, i think the respectful thing to do is let Gruden coach until the end of the season, and then fire him following the conclusion of the final game.

It is already a lost season. I want to say that it cannot get worse, but there always seems to be a way for us to end up worse.

I don't agree a lot with what the junkies have to say, but they have suggested benching Cousins for the rest of the year so that you don't risk him taking a bad injury behind our horrible O-Line. However they pointed out doing that only if they ARE 100% SURE - that they want Cousins to be their long term guy.

On a side note, not sure how Cousins feels about Gruden. He certainly must appreciate Gruden for giving him his chance to be the starter, and for believing in him, but he obviously feels like he owes McVay far more - he sent that framed Jersey to McVay that said "I owe you my career"... If Cousins has ever made quotes about his relationship with JG or anything of that nature, i must have missed it.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1182174]Yes. Jay is an Arena League amateur. The real question should be does he deserve to finish the season.[/quote]

Yes firing him now is stupid.

I was watching Gruden's coaches show last week and Cooley was kind of getting on him about why he doesn't do the QB sneak. He said Cousins doesn't have thick legs like Dalton does so that's why he hates it. Yet in the Saints game Payton had Brees do a sneak to pick up a 4th and less than a yard. Brees is like 6'0 and barely 200lbs. SMFH....

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1182157]Jay just looks lost most games, he has that "shit what do I do now " look. I think he's a good coach but is more like a Garrett, someone that can get u to the playoffs here and there but isn't like an Andy Reid where he is consistently a winner. The whole season was jacked by a drama filled OS once again. This team loves drama.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk[/quote]

Andy Reid is Marty Shottenheimer II, what has he done besides choke? Look at today and their season. Keep Gruden!!

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1182182]Yes firing him now is stupid.

I was watching Gruden's coaches show last week and Cooley was kind of getting on him about why he doesn't do the QB sneak. He said Cousins doesn't have thick legs like Dalton does so that's why he hates it. Yet in the Saints game Payton had Brees do a sneak to pick up a 4th and less than a yard. Brees is like 6'0 and barely 200lbs. SMFH....[/quote]

We can't run a qb sneak because the qb doesn't have thick legs??? So stupid. I'm betting that Snyder fires him and I don't have to read answers like that anymore.

By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1182182]Yes firing him now is stupid.



I was watching Gruden's coaches show last week and Cooley was kind of getting on him about why he doesn't do the QB sneak. He said Cousins doesn't have thick legs like Dalton does so that's why he hates it. Yet in the Saints game Payton had Brees do a sneak to pick up a 4th and less than a yard. Brees is like 6'0 and barely 200lbs. SMFH....[/QUOTE]



He should be fired three times. Once for being out of his league, twice for that answer, and a third time for his punchable face.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

A lot more No than Yes votes in the poll. Surprising.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1182185]We can't run a qb sneak because the qb doesn't have thick legs??? So stupid. I'm betting that Snyder fires him and I don't have to read answers like that anymore.[/quote]

Yeah he actually said some stupid shit like that, but then watched a QB who's smaller than Cousins pick up a crucial 4th and short.

And don't get me started on the 13 men on the field against our defense on Thursday. How do you have 13 men on the field at this stage of the season? That's pre season shit.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

If we finish 8-8 or better he won't be fired

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1182204]If we finish 8-8 or better he won't be fired

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk[/quote]

Hopefully we go 5-11.

New coach and great draft pick.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=HTTR;1182169] [...]

And while I agree that Gruden has looked lost at times (maybe more like pissed off and frustrated), [B]you also have to consider how fired up and prepared we were vs Raiders, Chiefs, and Saints[/B]. The absence of a running game and WRs, plus injuries, eventually doomed us, but I saw the start of something that looked like swagger; players were giving their all, they (including 2nd and 3rd stringers) just aren't that good.

[...]

[/quote]

Don't forget about the Seahawks game.

I really don't think Jay Gruden is a guy that doesn't get his player ready to play overall. Not saying it never happened but overall I wouldn't say that.

The one I'm not happy with is the WR coach Ike Illiard. Between Crowder's drops, Pryor complete inability to do anything and Docston's struggles, his squad's effort this year is pathetic !

I'd be glad to see a change there.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1182182]Yes firing him now is stupid.

I was watching Gruden's coaches show last week and Cooley was kind of getting on him about why he doesn't do the QB sneak. He said Cousins doesn't have thick legs like Dalton does so that's why he hates it. Yet in the Saints game Payton had Brees do a sneak to pick up a 4th and less than a yard. Brees is like 6'0 and barely 200lbs. SMFH....[/quote]

Id guess it has to do with not trusting our center, who we signed off the street a month ago. You cant make that guy the point of attack. If gruden did that and we got stuffed, he would get criticized for that.

Our battered O line and center have taken away consistent O line push on run plays and 5-7 drop play calls on passing plays.

Injuries on offense make it hard to game plan each week, with gruden not knowing who can and cant play.

Itd be easier if we just IR'd Reed, Trent, Moses .. so we know a week in advance who is going to be playing.

Hard to grade the coaches at this point imo.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[url=http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/video/jay-gruden-redskins-need-more-kirk-cousins-moving-forward?utm_content=buffer45093&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer]Jay Gruden: Redskins need more from Kirk Cousins moving forward | NBC Sports Washington[/url]

I mean what more can Kirk do?? Man it sure seems like they just don't want Kirk around much longer.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1182257][url=http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/video/jay-gruden-redskins-need-more-kirk-cousins-moving-forward?utm_content=buffer45093&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer]Jay Gruden: Redskins need more from Kirk Cousins moving forward | NBC Sports Washington[/url]

I mean what more can Kirk do?? Man it sure seems like they just don't want Kirk around much longer.[/quote]

This should get more people on board with being fired. We need way more from Jay than we need from Kirk.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

In my opinion, that's a terrible misinterpretation of what Jay is saying. He's saying we need Kirk to do what he's been doing 4 more times, he's not saying we need him to do more than what he has been doing.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Robert Davis promoted from PS and Kalis is back. I want to see Davis!!

[url=http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0729460434532310995-4]The Redskins claimed guard Kyle Kalis off waivers and promoted receiver Robert Davis off the practice squad, the team announced. They waived defensive lineman Caraun Reid and linebacker Pete Robertson. The Redskins had cut Kalis this summer; he was t[/url]

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1182257][url=http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/video/jay-gruden-redskins-need-more-kirk-cousins-moving-forward?utm_content=buffer45093&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer]Jay Gruden: Redskins need more from Kirk Cousins moving forward | NBC Sports Washington[/url]

I mean what more can Kirk do?? Man it sure seems like they just don't want Kirk around much longer.[/quote]

I really had no problem w/ what Gruden said. He didn't say anything negative and said a lot of positive things.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;1182253][B]Id guess it has to do with not trusting our center, who we signed off the street a month ago[/B]. You cant make that guy the point of attack. If gruden did that and we got stuffed, he would get criticized for that.

Our battered O line and center have taken away consistent O line push on run plays and 5-7 drop play calls on passing plays.

Injuries on offense make it hard to game plan each week, with gruden not knowing who can and cant play.

Itd be easier if we just IR'd Reed, Trent, Moses .. so we know a week in advance who is going to be playing.

Hard to grade the coaches at this point imo.[/quote]

This seems to be the part people forget, like we expect the same level of production that we got out of Long or Rouiller. Guy has barely been with the team for a month.

Overall good post too OTM, I agree with it in general.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1182174]Yes. Jay is an Arena League amateur. The real question should be does he deserve to finish the season.[/quote]

This is one of the dumbest things I've read on this site.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1181986]I'd rather have Sean McVay if that says anything. I think Jay is a good coach, just one that doesn't have much discipline. We could do better, but we also could do worse.[/quote]

Who is going to be better with all of the injuries?

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;1182253]Id guess it has to do with not trusting our center, who we signed off the street a month ago. You cant make that guy the point of attack. If gruden did that and we got stuffed, he would get criticized for that.

[/quote]

The QB sneak has got to be the easiest and most successful plays you can run in the NFL for a lineman.
We aren't asking a center to guard Von Miller at the edge, They just need to snap the ball and go forward. Hell, they don't even have to go forward, just hit a guy and let KC pick a side to dive in.

Check out this article with conversion stats:
[url=http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21158057/the-dying-art-qb-sneak]The dying art of the QB sneak[/url]

The fact that Gruden can't coach a slant or QB sneak pisses me off.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Be it far from me to be the voice of reason but about a week ago many of you were talking playoff chance's and now you want to fire the coach.
Who the hell do you think you are the Giants???:D

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1182269]I really had no problem w/ what Gruden said. He didn't say anything negative and said a lot of positive things.[/QUOTE]


Classic case of a misleading headline

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;1182253]Id guess it has to do with not trusting our center, who we signed off the street a month ago. You cant make that guy the point of attack. If gruden did that and we got stuffed, he would get criticized for that.

Our battered O line and center have taken away consistent O line push on run plays and 5-7 drop play calls on passing plays.

Injuries on offense make it hard to game plan each week, with gruden not knowing who can and cant play.

Itd be easier if we just IR'd Reed, Trent, Moses .. so we know a week in advance who is going to be playing.

Hard to grade the coaches at this point imo.[/quote]

Good point.
But I don't think it was a better call to take the chance behind an injured Scherff and a limping Moses with your rookie RB.

I'm a JG defender but that is one call that I hated.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1182268]Robert Davis promoted from PS and Kalis is back. I want to see Davis!!



[url=http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0729460434532310995-4]The Redskins claimed guard Kyle Kalis off waivers and promoted receiver Robert Davis off the practice squad, the team announced. They waived defensive lineman Caraun Reid and linebacker Pete Robertson. The Redskins had cut Kalis this summer; he was t[/url][/QUOTE]



I honestly do not know how you stay excited about this team. U r a better fan than me SF. Lol

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=jamf;1182276]The QB sneak has got to be the easiest and most successful plays you can run in the NFL for a lineman.
We aren't asking a center to guard Von Miller at the edge, They just need to snap the ball and go forward. Hell, they don't even have to go forward, just hit a guy and let KC pick a side to dive in.

[B]Check out this article with conversion stats:
[url=http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21158057/the-dying-art-qb-sneak]The dying art of the QB sneak[/url]

The fact that Gruden can't coach a slant or QB sneak pisses me off.[/quote][/B]

Obviously the athleticism of the QB hasn't much to do with the success of the QB sneak since New England is #1.