Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Allen is FAR BETTER than Haskins, not even close.

They're both turnover machines, but Allen actually looks around the field and doesn't telegraph every pass. He also doesn't run backwards 15 yards for a sack. He may not execute every time but he's a better decision maker than Dwayne.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Three thoughts after the game:
1. I want them to win every game. Losing for picks isn't worth it. Take a look around the league, look at the best QBs: Rothlisberger, Mahomes, Brees, Rogers, Brady, Wilson, Jackson. Not one of those guys was taken higher than #10 in the draft. Quality scouts will find quality players. We have a good scouting department, as long as Snyder doesn't get in the way.

2. The most frustrating thing about Landon Collins isn't Collins' fault. It's the team's fault. Who the hell pays a safety that kind of money???

3. There was a missed penalty on the 2-point conversion. Gibson got shoved to the ground by a Giant LB. Doesn't matter that he was within five yards, because he was shoved from behind. Right in the middle of the field at the goal line. Don't know how the refs missed it.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=Coff;1262889]Three thoughts after the game:
1. I want them to win every game. Losing for picks isn't worth it. Take a look around the league, look at the best QBs: Rothlisberger, Mahomes, Brees, Rogers, Brady, Wilson, Jackson. Not one of those guys was taken higher than #10 in the draft. Quality scouts will find quality players. We have a good scouting department, as long as Snyder doesn't get in the way.

2. The most frustrating thing about Landon Collins isn't Collins' fault. It's the team's fault. Who the hell pays a safety that kind of money???

3. There was a missed penalty on the 2-point conversion. [B]Gibson got shoved to the ground by a Giant LB.[/B] Doesn't matter that he was within five yards, because he was shoved from behind. Right in the middle of the field at the goal line. Don't know how the refs missed it.[/quote]

Yeah, and then he basically just stood there and watched his QB scramble and back pedal to no avail, rather than put himself in a position to give his QB a chance.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=Coff;1262889]

3. There was a missed penalty on the 2-point conversion. Gibson got shoved to the ground by a Giant LB. Doesn't matter that he was within five yards, because he was shoved from behind. Right in the middle of the field at the goal line. Don't know how the refs missed it.[/quote]

Good call. I thought perhaps Allen was outside the pocket (then it is legal to hit in back within 5 yards of LOS). Looked at the replay and the contact to back was early and Allen was clearly within the pocket.

---------------

ARTICLE 1. LEGAL CONTACT WITHIN FIVE YARDS

Within the area five yards beyond the line of scrimmage, a defensive player may chuck an eligible receiver in front of him. The defender is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard zone, so long as the receiver has not moved beyond a point that is even with the defender.

ARTICLE 2. ILLEGAL CONTACT WITHIN FIVE YARDS

[B]Within the five-yard zone, if the player who receives the snap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender may not make original contact in the back of a receiver[/B], nor may he maintain contact after the receiver has moved beyond a point that is even with the defender.

Note: If a defender contacts a receiver within the five-yard zone of the line of scrimmage, loses contact, and then contacts him again within the five-yard zone, it is a foul for illegal contact.

ARTICLE 3. ILLEGAL CONTACT BEYOND FIVE-YARD ZONE

Beyond the five-yard zone, if the player who receives the snap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender cannot initiate contact with a receiver who is attempting to evade him. A defender may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver.
[url]https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/illegal-contact/[/url]

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[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F6NKOjRYv8[/url]
^ 2 point play
--------------------------

I was surprised RR didnt challenge for PI on that non-call on our last drive, we scored anyway later on that drive but still looked like Logan Ryan got there early.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

But im a little confused on a hypothetical play, I think Richard Sherman exploited this rule a few years ago.

If a QB breaks the pocket but is still holding onto the ball, cant you make contact with a receiver past the 5 yard line as long as youre not holding them? Didnt Sherman do this a few years ago and everyone was screaming PI or illegal contact but since the QB was outside the pocket it was a legal play?

Obviously dangerous bc if you make contact when the QB throws the ball, it would be PI.

or if refs think you held the receiver (defensive holding)

or refs just flag it bc it looks like a foul and cant be convinced to pick it up

----------------------------

[url]https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/11/8/13560260/richard-sherman-bills-illegal-contact-walter-powell[/url]

^^ clear video and explanation of the play back in 2016. Sherman just leveled him. Why dont CBs do this more often? just make sure not to hold and not hit from the back.

Im guessing youd be too worried refs would flag it anyway

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Rivera: my message is consistent [url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2020/10/19/21519866/ron-rivera-presser-i-think-my-messaging-has-been-consistent[/url]

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

I came away with just two thoughts from this game.

1. The thing that I like about Kyle Allen is that he is able to play well enough to sustain drives so the coaches can see more plays to evaluate the offensive players. That's the main thing I think we need from him right now in this first season of the team build.

2. I am sorely disappointed with Scott Turner's play calling in general. In particular, I was disappointed by the fact that he didn't have anything special drawn up for the two point conversion.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1262908]I came away with just two thoughts from this game.

1. The thing that I like about Kyle Allen is that he is able to play well enough to sustain drives so the coaches can see more plays to evaluate the offensive players. That's the main thing I think we need from him right now in this first season of the team build.

2. I am sorely disappointed with Scott Turner's play calling in general. In particular, I was disappointed by the fact that he didn't have anything special drawn up for the two point conversion.[/quote]

Define special. Do you think they [I]didn't[/I] pick their top 2-point conversion play? I'm sure they had a play on their board that they thought would get them the necessary two yards. Sometimes the other team just executes better...

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1262933][B]Define special. [B]Do you think they [I]didn't[/I] pick their top 2-point conversion play?[/B][/B] I'm sure they had a play on their board that they thought would get them the necessary two yards. Sometimes the other team just executes better...[/quote]

I think they should have run something that they hadn't run before and put on tape. And you're right about how well the Giants defended that play.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

I love Cooley breakdown of WR AGG...”lost, he looks lost and doesn’t know what he is doing”

Always great to hear about how the rookie is progressing

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

People had very unrealistic expectations of AGG coming in. A 4th rounder from Liberty wasn't going to tear shit up as a rookie.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1263114]People had very unrealistic expectations of AGG coming in. A 4th rounder from Liberty wasn't going to tear shit up as a rookie.[/quote]

Totally agree...but still. Cooley has had a lot of complaints of the WRs route running and technique. Front office needs to get it in gear and get some players at WR and TE. QBs here don’t have a lot to work with...

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

AGG probably wasn't supposed to see the field a whole lot as a rookie. Injuries to Harmon and Sims have forced their hand.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Record number of 2 pt conversion attempts and incredibly high success rate (50%). Xtra point only 94% successful this year. Looks like a good call by Ron just a bad job of explaining it. [url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2020/10/22/21528141/nfl-teams-going-for-2-pt-conversions-at-a-record-rate-in-2020-but-its-not-paying-off-for-washington[/url]

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1263182]Record number of 2 pt conversion attempts and incredibly high success rate (50%). Xtra point only 94% successful this year. Looks like a good call by Ron just a bad job of explaining it. [url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2020/10/22/21528141/nfl-teams-going-for-2-pt-conversions-at-a-record-rate-in-2020-but-its-not-paying-off-for-washington[/url][/quote]

I tend to agree with you. Let's face it, it's only considered a bad call because it was unsuccessful. If they had won the game on that play, it would have been Ron Rivera's greatest call of all time. Easy to criticize in hindsight.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Still think the best call was to kick the PAT and go into OT. We were hot on offense and marching up and down the field.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

im convinced one day a coach will follow analytics and go for 2 every single time. And be right. Im surprised Belicheck hasnt figured out 3 plays that are guaranteed 2 yards at the goal line.

Going by baltimore's stats

after 2 touchdowns:

kick 2 extra points = 88.36% chance of coming away with 2 pts

go for 2 twice = 100% chance of 2 pts (Im not 100% certain this is right ..)

[(94/100)*(94/100) = .8836]

----------------

adding to it ... that doesnt even take into account you have the chance at 4 pts max (25% chance) vs 2 pts max (88.36% chance)

----------------------

Ho Le Chit ... figuring out the chance of getting heads on 2 coin flips is complicated as hell. Apparently my math is wrong as going for 2 two times in a row would be "independent" and not "mutually exclusive" events ..

[url]https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/729920/probability-of-head-in-coin-flip-when-coin-is-flipped-two-times[/url]

Schneed ... where are you? lol

edit -- chance of converting at least once on 2 two point tries = 75% not 100%

∴P(H1∪H2)=1/2+1/2−1/2×1/2=3/4

chance of converting twice on extra point kicks = i have no freaking clue

im sorry for this drivle guys ..

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1263188]Still think the best call was to kick the PAT and go into OT. We were hot on offense and marching up and down the field.[/quote]

I think that is what most people are saying. It's easy to go that route when you already know the other option failed.

Although had they kicked the extra point and lost in overtime, there probably wouldn't be a lot of people saying he should have gone for two.

I'm still good with the decision.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1263182]Record number of 2 pt conversion attempts and incredibly high success rate (50%). Xtra point only 94% successful this year. Looks like a good call by Ron just a bad job of explaining it. [url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2020/10/22/21528141/nfl-teams-going-for-2-pt-conversions-at-a-record-rate-in-2020-but-its-not-paying-off-for-washington[/url][/quote]

You gotta factor in context and who you are as a team. Is it a 50% play with this offense ? I don't think so.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1263182]Record number of 2 pt conversion attempts and incredibly high success rate (50%). Xtra point only 94% successful this year. Looks like a good call by Ron just a bad job of explaining it. [url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2020/10/22/21528141/nfl-teams-going-for-2-pt-conversions-at-a-record-rate-in-2020-but-its-not-paying-off-for-washington[/url][/QUOTE]



94% is still a hell of a lot better than 50% and like French said this team is going to more than likely drag the curve down not raise it.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1263198]You gotta factor in context and who you are as a team. Is it a 50% play with this offense ? I don't think so.[/quote]

No doubt. We don't have a Jackson, Mahomes or Henry. I thought an XP was way to go especially with the way they were moving the ball and the lack of long drives by the Giants. I just like the explanation better that RR's explanation at the presser.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Nobody knows if the extra point kick would have been good ...

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

We didn't win. It was a great playcall.