Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=MTK;1270523]I honestly don't think Dan had anything to do with Dwayne playing. Heinicke just got here, there's no way any coach would have felt confident rolling with a guy off the street vs someone who's been here all year. You can question whether Ron left Dwayne in too long, that's a fair discussion.[/quote]

100

And we got remember DS had a strong second half last week against Seattle. Dan had 0 influence on any of these decisions.

For everyone loving on Heinicke; he came in when the D was playing soft basically saying you can score but its going take you a good 6 minutes to do so.

DH is still hot garbage and honestly i wish they just cut him.

I think Philly is a crapper team then CAR; I don't see us losing that game. My hope is we are health when the playoff game comes and we get a good showing. No Alex and no Terry this team is way to thin to lose those guys for the same game.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1270524]I think there's zero chance Dan forced Ron to start Haskins, or is somehow pulling the strings from behind the curtain. Haskins played well enough in the second half of the Seattle game to get the nod, since Alex ultimately couldn't go. I'm convinced that RR and the coaching staff thought Haskins gave the team their best chance to win, and Haskins went out there and laid an absolute egg. It happens. No way they thought Heinicke would come in and show more than DH (against a softer defense, as has been pointed out). Maybe RR regrets not going to Heinicke earlier, or perhaps regrets starting Haskins at all, but hindsight is 20/20.

That said, it's hard to see a scenario where Haskins starts another game in the WFT uniform. If Haskins is starting next week, or even backing up the starter, then I'll start to question RR's decision making.

The gift TD on special teams, and the receivers' inability to catch the ball when it was actually put on them also didn't help. Collectively it wasn't a great day for the WFT (with the exception of the D - for the most part).

Gonna have to figure out a way to beat a better Philly team next Sunday night.[/quote]
We basically typed the exact same thing at the same time, lol!

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

Philly will have their bags packed by halftime. With nothing to play for if we lose that game we really have zero business being in the playoffs.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1270524]I think there's zero chance Dan forced Ron to start Haskins, or is somehow pulling the strings from behind the curtain. Haskins played well enough in the second half of the Seattle game to get the nod, since Alex ultimately couldn't go. I'm convinced that RR and the coaching staff thought Haskins gave the team their best chance to win, and Haskins went out there and laid an absolute egg. It happens. No way they thought Heinicke would come in and show more than DH (against a softer defense, as has been pointed out). Maybe RR regrets not going to Heinicke earlier, or perhaps regrets starting Haskins at all, but hindsight is 20/20.

That said, it's hard to see a scenario where Haskins starts another game in the WFT uniform. If Haskins is starting next week, or even backing up the starter, then I'll start to question RR's decision making.

The gift TD on special teams, and the receivers' inability to catch the ball when it was actually put on them also didn't help. Collectively it wasn't a great day for the WFT (with the exception of the D - for the most part).

[B]Gonna have to figure out a way to beat a better Philly team next Sunday night[/B].[/quote]

I disagree on that . CAR has had a bunch of close games and they play in a tougher division then Philly, I think Philly is the easier win, IMO.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

I think Scott Turner get's a big L too. The game plan for Haskins was not good. Sometimes I feel like he overthinks it, or gets too cute with the play calling.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

They need to reassign #7 Jersey number back to Theismann today

Another disgraceful Snyder move

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=MTK;1270527]Philly will have their bags packed by halftime. With nothing to play for if we lose that game we really have zero business being in the playoffs.[/quote]

[url]https://www.phillyvoice.com/eagles-should-tank-their-week-17-game-vs-washington-football-team-0599970/[/url]

We lose that game and i rather we don't go to playoffs.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=Chico23231;1270530]They need to reassign #7 Jersey number back to Theismann today

Another disgraceful Snyder move[/quote]

God I hope that never happens again. Leaving the decision up to Joe was just trash as trash gets.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=mredskins;1270528]I disagree on that . CAR has had a bunch of close games and they play in a tougher division then Philly, I think Philly is the easier win, IMO.[/quote]

I just meant better than the first game of the season, and better than they were with Wentz. I can't tell you if they are better than Carolina, probably a wash.

There's no easy win if your offense can't score more than 13 points. Philly will be ready to bounce this team from the playoffs, you can bet on that.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

There's no way the Eagles just lay down and allow the WFT to get their playoff berth by winning the division on their field, at their expense. That just isn't the way this division works.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=Chico23231;1270530]They need to reassign #7 Jersey number back to Theismann today

Another disgraceful Snyder move[/quote]

agree 100% what a disgrace ..

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=Chico23231;1270515]And people talk about privilege...JFC pathetic

Never had a real job and had a car note in college? How’s that work?[/quote]

When I was in school at OU, All of the star players had "Brand new cars" somehow.... Shit is funny

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

Dan has plenty of personal distractions right now. I don’t think meddling is a high priority

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

Taylor Heineken...they gave him basic calls and while Carolina may have been playing softer underneath...damn you would have never know because of the multiple aggressive throws down field. And most were well thrown! He put up big numbers in a short stint

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=MTK;1270527]Philly will have their bags packed by halftime. With nothing to play for if we lose that game we really have zero business being in the playoffs.[/quote]

I thought the same going into yesterday.. I won't believe it until I see it with this team..

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1270541]I thought the same going into yesterday.. I won't believe it until I see it with this team..[/quote]

Assuming Smith and McLaurin are back and Gibson has no setbacks, we're going to be full strength. That's all we can ask for. And we now know that Heinicke can play in a pinch.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=MTK;1270542]Assuming Smith and McLaurin are back and Gibson has no setbacks, we're going to be full strength. That's all we can ask for. And we now know that Heinicke can play in a pinch.[/quote]

Chase young said after the game "I love Taylor, he has some swag"

The dude looks 10 times better than DH yesterday and he is off the street!! That's how bad haskins is

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

I only saw snatches of the game last night as Sky had the Seahawks game on live and Redzone obviously had next to nothing of the WFT game to show! I only base this on what I saw and read, but I'd say if Smith isn't good to practice 1st team this week, then I'd give Heinicke the reps. He can't do worse than DH as starter and if all he does is game manage, with the ability to get the ball downfield as opportunity arises/needs must, then he probably gives us the better chance to win (leaning on the D again).

I'd leave Haskins behind in Philly next Sunday night...

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

Defense - pitched another 2nd half shut out and gave up 2 tds.. but allowed 2 soul sucking drives, first was that 10 runs for 80 yards drive resulting in a TD and that brutal 8 min drive by Car to start the 2nd half that ended with a recovered strip sack.

Heinicke - you cant take a guy having success in essentially mop up duty and translate that to what he would do next week as a starter. That being said .. very Todd Collins-esq. He got the ball out on time, in rythme. We had intermediate to long balls being thrown on time from 3 and 5 step drops. Very decisive. Mostly accurate. Weaker arm like Colt, throws a slow ball and has to really force it to go farther than 15-20 yards.

He looked better than Alex Smith in terms of throwing guys open, pushing the ball down field. Alex is really good at taking what the D gives you but I do wonder if he skips a chance at a 25 yarder down field bc he has and takes a guaranteed 5 yard check off.

Haskins fumble/incomplete pass - I thought haskins lost control (empty hand) but then regained enough control at release with his arm going forward for it to be an incomplete pass. Seems like deference is usually given to incomplete pass there. One of several tough breaks.

Secondary - except for that 1 long ball, has played well above expectations this year. Credit the D line for impacting opponent play calling but still.

O Line - like the secondary, playing well above their weight.

Gibson - i dont think he re-aggravated anything and thats probably the biggest bonus, looked good out there. He brings more than McKissic.

FA additions -- really this is the biggest difference maker imo. Wes Schweitzer (3 yr deal), Cornelius Lucas (2 yr deal), Logan Thomas (2 yr), Ronald Darby (1 yr), Fuller (4 yr), KPL (1 yr)

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

If RR had benched Haskins at Half I truly believe we win that game ... Taylor looked like he knew the offense and I don’t care if the D was playing soft or whatever he made plays and even the drops were not on him ... we have major issues with WR’s .. they need to step it up .. with the way we can run the ball and Taylor’s ability to process the game we should have a chance to win at eagles ... with Haskins we have no chance at all .. Alex or Taylor gets it done !

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

Heinicke performed admirably in a pinch, albeit against a softer D, but he also could have had a couple INTs if the Panther's defense could catch the ball. He did look better than Haskins in limited duty though, which is sad.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

Here is a good article on Heinicke. He played here for ODU and put up some big numbers. I think he started for them beginning in 2011 when ODU's was still pretty new into having a football team.

[url]https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/college/old-dominion/vp-sp-taylor-heinicke-washington-nfl-20201228-7x75mlam3vh5xe6soytwccjnge-story.html[/url]

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

The biggest elephant in the press room that I have not seen the press get after Ron about is the slow starts by this team. It is a running joke between my son and me that we have to get down 17 to scare the team awake (referencing scary Terry's jersey). It is pathetic to know that regardless of the quality of the opponent, we are going to spot them a double digit lead.

Has anyone heard the team's response to this? It is not all on the offense either.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=Chico23231;1270515]And people talk about privilege...JFC pathetic

Never had a real job and had a car note in college? How’s that work?[/quote]

You know [URL="https://www.si.com/college/2020/10/21/college-basketball-scandal-sec-recruiting-daily-cover"]how it works[/URL]. The [URL="https://www.si.com/college/2014/12/29/college-athletes-fixer-cheating-scheme"]system is broken[/URL].

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

Cred making a great point...slow starts have been a big issue. Skins have been behind almost every game going into halftime.

Also Logan Thomas breaking out:

Logan Thomas has the third most targets among tight ends in 2020.
Thomas, who has run more pass routes than any tight end in the league, has 101 targets, 29 behind Darren Waller and 38 behind Travis Kelce.

Told y’all to draft him on fantasy team

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1270555]The biggest elephant in the press room that I have not seen the press get after Ron about is the slow starts by this team. It is a running joke between my son and me that we have to get down 17 to scare the team awake (referencing scary Terry's jersey). It is pathetic to know that regardless of the quality of the opponent, we are going to spot them a double digit lead.

Has anyone heard the team's response to this? It is not all on the offense either.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Not having scored at all on their first possession of the game through 15 games is on the offense. Some of it's execution I'm sure, but in my opinion, a streak that long has to be a direct reflection of Scott Turner's ability (or inability) to put a game plan together.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=mooby;1270557]You know [URL="https://www.si.com/college/2020/10/21/college-basketball-scandal-sec-recruiting-daily-cover"]how it works[/URL]. The [URL="https://www.si.com/college/2014/12/29/college-athletes-fixer-cheating-scheme"]system is broken[/URL].[/quote]

True. But the no job thing is on his parents...how do you teach work ethic if you never had a job

1000000% on dad and mom.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1270559]Not having scored at all on their first possession of the game through 15 games is on the offense. Some of it's execution I'm sure, but in my opinion, a streak that long has to be a direct reflection of Scott Turner's ability (or inability) to put a game plan together.[/QUOTE]I just wonder if it is even more than that though because the defense comes out seemingly unprepared also. So it makes me look at how the top 3 HC, DC, OC run game prep. Usually both sides of the ball get it together around half time but something in warmups or game prep must be off to be so perfectly imperfect.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1270559]Not having scored at all on their first possession of the game through 15 games is on the offense. Some of it's execution I'm sure, but in my opinion, [B]a streak that long has to be a direct reflection of Scott Turner's ability (or inability) to put a game plan together.[/B][/quote]

Agreed to an extent, I blame the players for not executing and Scott Turner for being unable to put together a first 15 plays sheet that can get them started fast.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=Chico23231;1270560]True. But the no job thing is on his parents...how do you teach work ethic if you never had a job

1000000% on dad and mom.[/quote]

Totally agree, and the impression I've gotten (from Haskins & Haskins) and the 2 months they spent planning his draft party, putting together his "entertainment" company/etc. indicates they looked at Dwayne as a meal ticket. I think his entire family and friends failed him.

[url]https://twitter.com/michaelstrahan/status/1343259075841314817?s=20[/url]

Finally saw this clip of the Fox pre-game crew ripping Dwayne. It's a shame, he'll get another opportunity elsewhere for vet min probably but if his work ethic/ego gets in his own way there won't be many more opportunities.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=Chico23231;1270560]True. But the no job thing is on his parents...how do you teach work ethic if you never had a job

1000000% on dad and mom.[/quote]

Im not getting caught up with that. He was a top prospect in the 4th grade. His dad had NFL aspirations for him. Seems he came from a middle class type family in NJ then moved to Potomac Md to go to Bullis in the 9th grade.

He was on a different life trajectory than us. I worked baskin robbins at 15 and Popeyes/day laborer through out high school until college. We werent him. Few are.

He attained an incredible achievement, making the NFL. No one can take that from him.

He also apparently lost that achievement by being immature and entitled. basically the opposite of Chase Young. In ways I feel bad for him. He has no one to blame but himself but it is sad watching a young person experience these huge crushing emotions so early in life.

A lot was given to him unearned but that is the society we live in. Us 40-60 year old fat guys on our couches raise these 19 year old athletes above us on this pedestal like some greek gods .. only to discard them into the trash heap once they dont benefit our Sunday viewing pleasure anymore.

I feel for the young man. His feelings right now and the weight on his shoulders is vastly more than any of us could even imagine.

We created Dwayne Haskins in many ways. College to professional sports is a factory and these young guys are just products on an assembly line with a limited useful shelf life before they are discarded and replaced.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[url]https://twitter.com/ChadwikoRCC/status/1343335284079878144[/url]

We lost because we were pretty terrible most of the game, but in case you needed more evidence of how terrible the refs were yesterday. I hope it's years before we see that crew again.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

SunnySide - Your post is pure Bull shit. it is not societies fault. As far as I am concerned, that old lament is some liberals way of blaming everyone else for being lazy, entitled and immature.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

Bits from Ron's presser:

Terry Mac has a high ankle sprain. (I believe that's a 2-4 week injury, so prob. not looking good for this week either).

QB depth chart: #1 Alex, #2 Heinicke, #3 Haskins

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=SunnySide;1270564]Im not getting caught up with that. He was a top prospect in the 4th grade. His dad had NFL aspirations for him. Seems he came from a middle class type family in NJ then moved to Potomac Md to go to Bullis in the 9th grade.

He was on a different life trajectory than us. I worked baskin robbins at 15 and Popeyes/day laborer through out high school until college. We werent him. Few are.

He attained an incredible achievement, making the NFL. No one can take that from him.

He also apparently lost that achievement by being immature and entitled. basically the opposite of Chase Young. In ways I feel bad for him. He has no one to blame but himself but it is sad watching a young person experience these huge crushing emotions so early in life.

A lot was given to him unearned but that is the society we live in. Us 40-60 year old fat guys on our couches raise these 19 year old athletes above us on this pedestal like some greek gods .. only to discard them into the trash heap once they dont benefit our Sunday viewing pleasure anymore.

[B]I feel for the young man. His feelings right now and the weight on his shoulders is vastly more than any of us could even imagine.[/B]

We created Dwayne Haskins in many ways. College to professional sports is a factory and these young guys are just products on an assembly line with a limited useful shelf life before they are discarded and replaced.[/quote]

I feel sorry for him to a degree, and hope he gets his life together as he said last night, but he has no more weight on his shoulders than most kids his age, trying to navigate through school, a new career, a new job, or several jobs. He has no more weight than the many who serve in our armed forces, for example. He just chose a different profession, and has chosen not to put in the effort it requires to be successful.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=SunnySide;1270564]Im not getting caught up with that. He was a top prospect in the 4th grade. His dad had NFL aspirations for him. Seems he came from a middle class type family in NJ then moved to Potomac Md to go to Bullis in the 9th grade.

He was on a different life trajectory than us. I worked baskin robbins at 15 and Popeyes/day laborer through out high school until college. We werent him. Few are.

He attained an incredible achievement, making the NFL. No one can take that from him.

He also apparently lost that achievement by being immature and entitled. basically the opposite of Chase Young. In ways I feel bad for him. He has no one to blame but himself but it is sad watching a young person experience these huge crushing emotions so early in life.

A lot was given to him unearned but that is the society we live in. Us 40-60 year old fat guys on our couches raise these 19 year old athletes above us on this pedestal like some greek gods .. only to discard them into the trash heap once they dont benefit our Sunday viewing pleasure anymore.

I feel for the young man. His feelings right now and the weight on his shoulders is vastly more than any of us could even imagine.

We created Dwayne Haskins in many ways. College to professional sports is a factory and these young guys are just products on an assembly line with a limited useful shelf life before they are discarded and replaced.[/quote]

I have a friend....a close friend, actually...and his family gave him the world. Kid had a good heart. His parents and grand parents gave him beautiful cars, and opportunity after opportunity. The likes of which none of my other friends had.. even wealthier friends got less.
My friend still wanted to do stupid immature things. He totalled 3 cars getting dui's on each. Every time....new car. He ended up in and out of jail for various offenses. We just kept telling him he was fucking up. He didn't listen, or couldn't. Whatever. Dude just couldn't not live the life. We didn't create that. His family didn't help the situation...but he chose to do those things. Sad as it is. And in the end he od'ed. It was a tough one. Really tough cause no one knew the extent of his issues, nor could anyone help him if we did.
But he chose that path. No one set him on it. His best friend (another of my close friends) had a wealthier family and was given a lot of the same opportunities. He is a lawyer now, and though likes a trip to the bar occasionally, is and never has been an addict. Never crashed a car. Never went to jail. He seized his opportunity, while my other friend took the other path. One worked hard and one used his opportunities to coast. I'm not gonna feel bad for haskins. He has the opportunity, but squanders it at every turn. He is a child. I will not think that he is a product of some football factory lifestyle that makes him a victim of circumstance. Hes just a kid who won't put in the work because he thinks it's a given that he deserves to succeed.
Fuck that.
I hope his t shirts are 100% cotton to absorb his entitled tears.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=SunnySide;1270564]Im not getting caught up with that. He was a top prospect in the 4th grade. His dad had NFL aspirations for him. Seems he came from a middle class type family in NJ then moved to Potomac Md to go to Bullis in the 9th grade.

He was on a different life trajectory than us. I worked baskin robbins at 15 and Popeyes/day laborer through out high school until college. We werent him. Few are.

He attained an incredible achievement, making the NFL. No one can take that from him.

He also apparently lost that achievement by being immature and entitled. basically the opposite of Chase Young. In ways I feel bad for him. He has no one to blame but himself but it is sad watching a young person experience these huge crushing emotions so early in life.

A lot was given to him unearned but that is the society we live in. Us 40-60 year old fat guys on our couches raise these 19 year old athletes above us on this pedestal like some greek gods .. only to discard them into the trash heap once they dont benefit our Sunday viewing pleasure anymore.

I feel for the young man. His feelings right now and the weight on his shoulders is vastly more than any of us could even imagine.

We created Dwayne Haskins in many ways. College to professional sports is a factory and these young guys are just products on an assembly line with a limited useful shelf life before they are discarded and replaced.[/quote]

Popeyes would be dangerous for me. That is some good ass fried chicken.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=oldfan;1270566]SunnySide - Your post is pure Bull shit. it is not societies fault. As far as I am concerned, that old lament is some liberals way of blaming everyone else for being lazy, entitled and immature.[/quote]

Perhaps youre right oldfan. I wont pretend to have the answers.

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=mooby;1270567]bits from ron's presser:

Terry mac has a high ankle sprain. (i believe that's a 2-4 week injury, so prob. Not looking good for this week either).

[b]qb depth chart: #1 alex, #2 heinicke, #3 haskins[/b][/quote]

good!

Re: Panthers Postgame sadness
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1270524]I think there's zero chance Dan forced Ron to start Haskins, or is somehow pulling the strings from behind the curtain. Haskins played well enough in the second half of the Seattle game to get the nod, since Alex ultimately couldn't go. I'm convinced that RR and the coaching staff thought Haskins gave the team their best chance to win, and Haskins went out there and laid an absolute egg. It happens. No way they thought Heinicke would come in and show more than DH (against a softer defense, as has been pointed out). Maybe RR regrets not going to Heinicke earlier, or perhaps regrets starting Haskins at all, but hindsight is 20/20.

That said, it's hard to see a scenario where Haskins starts another game in the WFT uniform. If Haskins is starting next week, or even backing up the starter, then I'll start to question RR's decision making.

The gift TD on special teams, and the receivers' inability to catch the ball when it was actually put on them also didn't help. Collectively it wasn't a great day for the WFT (with the exception of the D - for the most part).

Gonna have to figure out a way to beat a better Philly team next Sunday night.[/quote]

Forcing and advocating for/asking to are different things.

I just have a hard time seeing how this coaching staff didn't see that Haskins still hadn't understood what it took to be an NFL QB, and/or was out of his shoes following the strippers incident and his punishment.

And I do agree he had a really good game against the Seahawks, including first half IMO. But starting him, and even more so not benching him earlier reeked of "I got to give this freakin' kid every single chance available and only bench him when there's no other choice"... which reeks of Snyder's influence.