Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1338979]I think it is a little strange teams seem so disinterested in Jackson. Teams that need a quarterback to put them over the hump anyway.[/quote]

Played 12 games each of the last 2 seasons, Pass td 33 to 20 int totals. Remove running out of his QBR, he’s like 20th ranked.

200 million and two first round picks for that?

Just no, not even worth considering

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1338982]Played 12 games each of the last 2 seasons, Pass td 33 to 20 int totals. Remove running out of his QBR, he’s like 20th ranked.

200 million and two first round picks for that?

Just no, not even worth considering[/QUOTE]


Cant just remove running though. If you remove Daniel Jones running he is so mediocre it hurts. Baltimore got shit at the wr position too and pretty has his whole career. Just think it’s bizarre he gets zero interest.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1338984]Cant just remove running though. If you remove Daniel Jones running he is so mediocre it hurts. Baltimore got shit at the wr position too and pretty has his whole career. Just think it’s bizarre he gets zero interest.[/quote]

No you can’t it’s the catch 22, he runs more and he gets injured. He is a limited passer in a offense that’s catered too him

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1338984]Cant just remove running though. If you remove Daniel Jones running he is so mediocre it hurts. Baltimore got shit at the wr position too and pretty has his whole career. Just think it’s bizarre he gets zero interest.[/quote]

Also very bizarre that all those teams "reported" that they had no interest in him, as soon as word got out that he had been tagged with the non-exclusive tag too...including this one.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1338982]Played 12 games each of the last 2 seasons, Pass td 33 to 20 int totals. Remove running out of his QBR, he’s like 20th ranked.

200 million and two first round picks for that?

Just no, not even worth considering[/quote]

Agree here, 1 first yes but not 2

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1338985]No you can’t it’s the catch 22, he runs more and he gets injured. He is a limited passer in a offense that’s catered too him[/QUOTE]


2019 man. 36 and 6. 67 completion percentage. Willie Snead , Marquise Brown, and Chris Moore as his top wr’s. Imagine he had actual wr’s ? Maybe he wouldn’t have to run so much.

Has any quarterback ever thrown 36 td’s with so little at wr?

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1338989]2019 man. 36 and 6. 67 completion percentage. Willie Snead , Marquise Brown, and Chris Moore as his top wr’s. Imagine he had actual wr’s ? Maybe he wouldn’t have to run so much.

Has any quarterback ever thrown 36 td’s with so little at wr?[/quote]

That was 2019 and running QBs have a very short shelf life in the NFL

the question is do you pay the 2019 LJ or the last two seasons LJ (injured)

I believe and i watch him a lot he is on the decline. I also believe he doesn't want be in BAL.

I also think other teams see this decline, just look how much buzz was around Sex Pred Watson when he was in transition out of HOU; no other team is really buzzing about LJ and even his own team has yet to commit to him long term.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1338984]Cant just remove running though. If you remove Daniel Jones running he is so mediocre it hurts. [B]Baltimore got shit at the wr [/B]position too and pretty has his whole career. Just think it’s bizarre he gets zero interest.[/quote]

But do they? Or is it a combination of their talent and LJ's lack of accuracy/arm

Some of BAL throwing pains have to fall to LJ. Unless BAL has been leading the league in dropped balls the last several years some blame has to fall to LJ.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

If this a normal offseason for us and Dan wasn't broke, I'd be all in on going after LJ.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=mredskins;1338992]But do they? Or is it a combination of their talent and LJ's lack of accuracy/arm

Some of BAL throwing pains have to fall to LJ. Unless BAL has been leading the league in dropped balls the last several years some blame has to fall to LJ.[/QUOTE]


A good wr creates separation, and runs crisp routes, doesn’t just hold on to the ball. Though that helps. Im not a great judge of NFL talent obviously but me thinks Baltimores crew is lackluster at best.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1338993]If this a normal offseason for us and Dan wasn't broke, I'd be all in on going after LJ.[/QUOTE]


Yeah me too.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1338991]That was 2019 and [B]running QBs have a very short shelf life in the NFL [/B]

the question is do you pay the 2019 LJ or the last two seasons LJ (injured)

I believe and i watch him a lot he is on the decline. I also believe he doesn't want be in BAL.

I also think other teams see this decline, just look how much buzz was around Sex Pred Watson when he was in transition out of HOU; no other team is really buzzing about LJ and even his own team has yet to commit to him long term.[/quote]

The part I bolded could be the big scare that keeps teams from going after LJ.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1339006]A good wr creates separation, and runs crisp routes, doesn’t just hold on to the ball. Though that helps. Im not a great judge of NFL talent obviously but me thinks Baltimores crew is lackluster at best.[/quote]

[url]https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowMa04.htm[/url]

Look at Hollywood Brown at AZ he was averaging 5.6 catches per game, got injured and missed 5 games but he was on pace for his best season ever in total REC and that was also the first year LJ wasn't throwing to him.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1338993]If this a normal offseason for us and Dan wasn't broke, I'd be all in on going after LJ.[/quote]

If you have a HC that's ready to do what it takes to design the offense for him, yeah for sure it'd be exciting. But with this staff and this ownership situation, nah thanks, let's be patient, good things should be coming our way pretty soon.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

Wouldn't take Jackson for free, let alone 2 frp.

I would not want to be the team that gives him $150MM+ guaranteed.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

The QB game is insane now if he isn't already on the team. Jackson would cost both a shit ton of coin and a shit ton of draft stock.

Trading for a QB just isn't very feasible nowadays, whether it's our team or not. Much rather go thru the draft to add another guy.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1338993]If this a normal offseason for us and Dan wasn't broke, I'd be all in on going after LJ.[/quote]

I third this. Buy the ticket take the ride

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

Lamar Jackson is without a doubt a Top 10 NFL QB. But for any team that isn't Baltimore, there is crazy risks:

1. Will he even play 75% of the games?
2. How much cap space will he take?
3. How many picks will it take?
4. Will he fit in on a new team and new offense? Will his new weapons mesh around him?

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

I mean, I'd definitely take LJ for free. but he's not going to be free, he's going to be very very expensive.

Hard pass at the expected price; I'm not going to say he'd be worse than what we have though.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=That Guy;1339075]I mean, I'd definitely take LJ for free. but he's not going to be free, he's going to be very very expensive.

Hard pass at the expected price; I'm not going to say he'd be worse than what we have though.[/quote]

He is an upgrade. But he would need to be like a 500% upgrade to be worth what it would cost our team. QBs that are good that you have to trade for AND immediately sign to a long term deal just isn't a good option imo. Howell, veteran, mid/late round draft pick is where I'm landing.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

I think the reports indicating we are 'out' on LJ are true, even though you can't believe anything this time of year, so this is really a moot conversation. He definitely wouldn't make this team worse, but we need more than a QB right now, and signing him AND giving up two first round picks would prohibit us from improving other areas of need.

Howell, veteran, mid/late round draft pick is where I'm landing as well.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1339071]Lamar Jackson is without a doubt a Top 10 NFL QB. But for any team that isn't Baltimore, there is crazy risks:

1. Will he even play 75% of the games?
2. How much cap space will he take?
3. How many picks will it take?
4. Will he fit in on a new team and new offense? Will his new weapons mesh around him?[/quote]

There are risks with every QB, but there have been two QBs (Watson and Cousins) with plenty of risks and similar or less success that have gotten fully guaranteed deals.

I think Lamar is stupid for not having an agent though.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1339094]There are risks with every QB, but there have been two QBs (Watson and Cousins) with plenty of risks and similar or less success that have gotten fully guaranteed deals.

I think Lamar is stupid for not having an agent though.[/quote]

The Watson deal was absolutely absurd, Cleveland was NUTS to do it.

As for Cousins, they just didn't think he was that good. He did not have injury history or concerns at all.

Lamar Jackson is a injury waiting to happen. He is a far undersized running QB with a history of injury problems. AND to make it worse, quite a few felt he could play just fine last year and chose not to to protect his FA status this year. I don't any part of any of those issues.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1339103]The Watson deal was absolutely absurd, Cleveland was NUTS to do it.

As for Cousins, they just didn't think he was that good. He did not have injury history or concerns at all.

Lamar Jackson is a injury waiting to happen. He is a far undersized running QB with a history of injury problems. AND to make it worse, quite a few felt he could play just fine last year and chose not to to protect his FA status this year. I don't any part of any of those issues.[/quote]

In terms of the Watson, new deals always set a precedence for future deals. Regardless of what people think about the deal, it happened and I don't blame for Lamar's camp from bringing this up.

Like Watson, Cousins had some success, but he still got a fully guaranteed deal. Sure it wasn't a $230 mil deal, but the important part is that it was fully guaranteed. You now have two QBs that have gotten fully guaranteed deals. The league cannot ignore that.

Finally, I feel like the fans are being fed all of these excuses about why he shouldn't get paid, and the fans are buying it.

The Ravens have gone 43-23 since 2019 when Lamar became the starting QB and have been to the playoffs 3 times during that period. I would KILL for our team to have that run during that period of time.

I don't necessarily thing Lamar should get $230 mil guaranteed, but it is utterly ridiculous that "no team" is interested. Meanwhile Aaron Rodgers is old as f*ck, going all mental and doing shrooms in the offseason, and he's about to get traded to the Jets and get a ton of money.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1339104]In terms of the Watson, new deals always set a precedence for future deals. Regardless of what people think about the deal, it happened and I don't blame for Lamar's camp from bringing this up.

Like Watson, Cousins had some success, but he still got a fully guaranteed deal. Sure it wasn't a $230 mil deal, but the important part is that it was fully guaranteed. You now have two QBs that have gotten fully guaranteed deals. The league cannot ignore that.

Finally, I feel like the fans are being fed all of these excuses about why he shouldn't get paid, and the fans are buying it.

The Ravens have gone 43-23 since 2019 when Lamar became the starting QB and have been to the playoffs 3 times during that period. I would KILL for our team to have that run during that period of time.

I don't necessarily thing Lamar should get $230 mil guaranteed, but it is utterly ridiculous that "no team" is interested. Meanwhile Aaron Rodgers is old as f*ck, going all mental and doing shrooms in the offseason, and he's about to get traded to the Jets and get a ton of money.[/quote]

I hear you . . . but he is a undersized running qb that is already missing a lot of games. I feel strongly that he will miss a lot more games and progressively more games due to being and undersized running QB. Not sure he'll make it through a 5 year contact. and if the does he'll miss 3 of those years due to injury.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

I don’t see how 6’2” 212 is undersized when our projected starter is 6’1” 220. Both of his injuries came in the pocket passing and planting not running so I am not buying he will miss games due to running. My biggest concern is his regression passing. He used to be quietly a top 10 passer. Can he get that back?

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1339112]I don’t see how 6’2” 212 is undersized when our projected starter is 6’1” 220. Both of his injuries came in the pocket passing and planting not running so I am not buying he will miss games due to running. My biggest concern is his regression passing. He used to be quietly a top 10 passer. Can he get that back?[/QUOTE]Yeah, I don't get the whole "undersized" argument.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

RBs tend to be like 5'9" and 230lb, and SH is on the small size for QBs. (mannings 6'4-5" and 220-230 for example).

Not that that's the be-all end-all (ie drew brees 6'0" 210).

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

Howell is short and stalky, like Russell Wilson. Jackson is taller and skinnier. A lot less meat on the bones than Howell.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1339112]I don’t see how 6’2” 212 is undersized when our projected starter is 6’1” 220. Both of his injuries came in the pocket passing and planting not running so I am not buying he will miss games due to running. My biggest concern is his regression passing. He used to be quietly a top 10 passer. Can he get that back?[/quote]

Sam Howell is undersized too! But not wanting $50 million a year guaranteed. Plus he is not a running QB. Also while he is short, he is not frail at all, he has a very thick muscular lower body that looks to be able to withstand a bit more punishment.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

If all it took to get Lamar was $50 mill guaranteed and two firsts sign me up

edit: didn't read per a year. Thought you meant 50 mil total

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1339122]Howell is short and stalky, like Russell Wilson. Jackson is taller and skinnier. A lot less meat on the bones than Howell.[/quote]

DeShaun Watson is 3 lbs heavier than Lamar Jackson, same height. No one is calling DW undersized.

Again, this is the bullshit teams are putting out there to further devalue Jackson's worth. And the public eats it up and believes them.

If I'm Jackson, I'd lower my prize a bit but stick to wanting a fully guaranteed deal.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1339220]If all it took to get Lamar was $50 mill guaranteed and two firsts sign me up

edit: didn't read per a year. Thought you meant 50 mil total[/quote]

If it was $50 total guaranteed I'd be all for it.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1339223]DeShaun Watson is 3 lbs heavier than Lamar Jackson, same height. No one is calling DW undersized.

Again, this is the bullshit teams are putting out there to further devalue Jackson's worth. And the public eats it up and believes them.

If I'm Jackson, I'd lower my prize a bit but stick to wanting a fully guaranteed deal.[/quote]

Looking at what is happening out there, looks like the teams are "undervaluing" Jackson just as much as the fans.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

If Keim says Lamar isn't coming here I take that to the bank. That dude is never wrong

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

Spotrac
@spotrac
QB Carousel Guesstimations

Garoppolo->#Raiders
Mayfield->#Buccaneers
Darnold->#Commanders
Brissett->#Dolphins
Wentz->#Panthers
Dalton->#Texans
Keenum->#Bills
Mariota->#Cardinals
Bridgewater->#Broncos
Brady->#Beach

HARD PASS

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1339223]DeShaun Watson is 3 lbs heavier than Lamar Jackson, same height. No one is calling DW undersized.

Again, this is the bullshit teams are putting out there to further devalue Jackson's worth. And the public eats it up and believes them.

If I'm Jackson, I'd lower my prize a bit but stick to wanting a fully guaranteed deal.[/quote]

He's a stud. Personally, I'm not trying to devalue him. I have said he's a Top 10 QB. He should definitely get paid. But his body type and playing style is different than any other QB in the league. Watson doesn't run nearly as much as Jackson. Watson averaged 6 carries a game last year. Jackson's lowest number of carries in a game (besides Denver when he got hurt) was 6. And he averaged over 10 carries per game.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1339235]He's a stud. Personally, I'm not trying to devalue him. I have said he's a Top 10 QB. He should definitely get paid. But his body type and playing style is different than any other QB in the league. Watson doesn't run nearly as much as Jackson. Watson averaged 6 carries a game last year. Jackson's lowest number of carries in a game (besides Denver when he got hurt) was 6. And he averaged over 10 carries per game.[/quote]

watson> lj as a QB

definitely not a better person which is the bigger of the two but we pay for QB play not character, sadly

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1339237]watson> lj as a QB

definitely not a better person which is the bigger of the two but we pay for QB play not character, sadly[/quote]

Watson before trying to get rubbed off by every masseuse west of the Mississippi > Jackson.

Watson wasn't very good last year, but that's to be expected w/ such a long layoff. I'm definitely curious to see if he returns to his previous elite level in 2023.

Re: Commanders 2023 Free Agency Thread
 

John Keim on Twitter

[quote]
CB Danny Johnson has agreed to a two-year deal to return to Washington per source.
[/quote]