Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=Rotten1980;1099797]Same story in Detroit and Cleveland (pre-Manziel lol). Tampa still blows.



Gruden has more talent to work with this year than we had last year and more help all around. Special teams better this. Defense had some strong games this season and we have a legit passrush playmaker in Kerrigan now but defense overall is pretty close.



Gruden was coddled in Cincy folks! Elite defense backing him up with a ton of talent to work with on offense. Elite oline and best WR in pro football.



And most importantly he wasn't tasked to lead anything/anybody. Lewis' players run through walls for him and so do Zimmer's.[/QUOTE]


Only major difference is DJax, and had he been on this quarterbackless team last year it would not have mattered. We are missing DHall this year and it has hurt our D terribly.

Whats Cincys offense doing this year without him? A whole lotta mediocrity.
Thank you come again.

I get that you hate Gruden, but its as if the last time you watched them was 1991 and than just started again this year.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1099803]I can't remember seeing a Skins team beat themselves so badly week in and week out. We actually have a top-12 offense and defense yet we consistently lose because we consistently do stupid things: miss simple coverages, miss simple blitz pickups, make pointless personal fouls, get kicked out of games, etc.



This undiscipline is on Gruden.[/QUOTE]


You are kidding right? You cannot remember? Try last year.
I am not going to say Gruden is up for coach of the year or anything, but can we stop pretending we were on the verge of something great until Gruden came and ruined it all??

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1099806]You are kidding right? You cannot remember? Try last year.
I am not going to say Gruden is up for coach of the year or anything, but can we stop pretending we were on the verge of something great until Gruden came and ruined it all??[/quote]

IMO Last year we were beaten more on the basis of talent, especially the talent of our depth. And sure, we still have some talent problems.

But this year IMO we have better talent but spend more time doing really stupid things. And we do these stupid things every single week. IMO we were stupid, but not as stupid, last year.

And even if we disagree on this, the essential point remains that we can't win until we stop being so stupid.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I think Gruden needs to go. At some point this season Jay decided that it is more important to get RG3 out of here, then winning games or developing talent. All of the players have regressed, even D.Jax. Gruden has not instilled confidence. Instead he has worked to teardown his players. I get not wanting to hitch your wagon to a QB you don't like, but honestly he needs to work with the roster that he put together.

Bring Todd Bowles as HC

The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1099808]IMO Last year we were beaten more on the basis of talent, especially the talent of our depth. And sure, we still have some talent problems.



But this year IMO we have better talent but spend more time doing really stupid things. And we do these stupid things every single week. IMO we were stupid, but not as stupid, last year.



And even if we disagree on this, the essential point remains that we can't win until we stop being so stupid.[/QUOTE]


Beaides DJax who is this talent we have as opposed to last year? If you dont have a QB it is hard to maximize your new talent at WR.
We are missing DHall this year. That is huge. I dont see any talent difference at all really.
I think you are greatly underestimating the stupidity and shooting of the proverbial feet this team was famous for for many years before Gruden got here. Lol.
You are correct about the fact that we have to fix stupid, and im banking on cap money, a first round pick and a new DC to help Gruden do this.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1099811]Beaides DJax who is this talent we have as opposed to last year? If you dont have a QB it is hard to maximize your new talent at WR.
We are missing DHall this year. That is huge. I dont see any talent difference at all really.
I think you are greatly underestimating the stupidity and shooting of the proverbial feet this team was famous for for many years before Gruden got here. Lol.
You are correct about the fact that we have to fix stupid, and im banking on cap money, a first round pick and a new DC to help Gruden do this.[/quote]

Fine.

Still, the stupid stuff needs to stop. Joe Gibbs did not win three Super Bowls with people missing simple cover 2 assignments. Coaches of the good teams make sure that their folks don't do the stoopid crap.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1099810]I think Gruden needs to go. At some point this season Jay decided that it is more important to get RG3 out of here, then winning games or developing talent. All of the players have regressed, even D.Jax. Gruden has not instilled confidence. Instead he has worked to teardown his players. I get not wanting to hitch your wagon to a QB you don't like, but honestly he needs to work with the roster that he put together.

Bring Todd Bowles as HC[/quote]

Why would Todd Bowles sign with a team that just fired a coach after one losing season? See, that's the problem. We can have an interesting discussion about whether or not Gruden sucks as a HC, but firing him at this point would do a a lot of damage to this organization. It's already an organization that has a reputation as being a place coaches go to kill their careers. Why make it even worse? The Skins cannot fire Gruden this year, no matter how badly they may think he sucks.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Coff;1099814]Why would Todd Bowles sign with a team that just fired a coach after one losing season? See, that's the problem. We can have an interesting discussion about whether or not Gruden sucks as a HC, but firing him at this point would do a a lot of damage to this organization. It's already an organization that has a reputation as being a place coaches go to kill their careers. Why make it even worse? The Skins cannot fire Gruden this year, no matter how badly they may think he sucks.[/quote]

There are only 32 head coaching jobs, of those 32, only a fraction become available, boils down to simple math combined with the law of supply and demand. If Gruden is fired someone, will take the job, period.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1099811]Beaides DJax who is this talent we have as opposed to last year? If you dont have a QB it is hard to maximize your new talent at WR.
We are missing DHall this year. That is huge. I dont see any talent difference at all really.
I think you are greatly underestimating the stupidity and shooting of the proverbial feet this team was famous for for many years before Gruden got here. Lol.
You are correct about the fact that we have to fix stupid, and im banking on cap money, a first round pick and a new DC to help Gruden do this.[/quote]

You are exactly right. Besides Djax it's largely the same players and same coaches. A one Gruden for two Shannys trade.

Who are these pro bowlers the front office brought in who everyone keeps alluding to?

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

If it wasnt for DJax this past off-season would be a total whiff by the front office.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1099811]Beaides DJax who is this talent we have as opposed to last year? If you dont have a QB it is hard to maximize your new talent at WR.
We are missing DHall this year. That is huge. I dont see any talent difference at all really.
I think you are greatly underestimating the stupidity and shooting of the proverbial feet this team was famous for for many years before Gruden got here. Lol.
You are correct about the fact that we have to fix stupid, and im banking on cap money, a first round pick and a new DC to help Gruden do this.[/quote]

Keim's post game observations touch on the discussion here. Especially the comparison to Arizona and the culture Jay inherited:

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins]Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=DirtBagZ;1099829]There are only 32 head coaching jobs, of those 32, only a fraction become available, boils down to simple math combined with the law of supply and demand. If Gruden is fired someone, will take the job, period.[/quote]

Someone will always take an available job but what's the agenda and quality of that someone? Competent people don't sign up for bad situations with tons of restrictions. Gruden is a testament to this notion.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=irish;1099859]If it wasnt for DJax this past off-season would be a total whiff by the front office.[/quote]

This is a point that needs to be made over and over again. Really, everything after Shanahan was fired has been horrible. The hiring of Gruden hasn't worked. The other decisions on the coaching staff (retaining Haslett, McVay, Forester, Morris, hiring Kotwica) haven't worked. None of the free agents have worked. Jackson is the exception because without him we may be looking at a 1-15 season. Breeland seems like the only draft pick worth a damn.

In the 5 years since Bruce Allen has been in the organization the franchise has gotten appreciably worse in every single way, which 5 years ago seemed IMPOSSIBLE! Can you imagine that we're so much worse since Vinny F'n Cerrato left?!?!? We've lost 10+ games every season except 2012. He was at least in part responsible for:
-McNabb trade
-$36 million salary cap penalty
-Griffin trade
-Gruden hire and related coaching decisions

While Gruden may not be the sole problem, he's a major symptom and definitely not part of the solution.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Paintrain;1099874]This is a point that needs to be made over and over again. Really, everything after Shanahan was fired has been horrible. The hiring of Gruden hasn't worked. The other decisions on the coaching staff (retaining Haslett, McVay, Forester, Morris, hiring Kotwica) haven't worked. None of the free agents have worked. Jackson is the exception because without him we may be looking at a 1-15 season. Breeland seems like the only draft pick worth a damn.

In the 5 years since Bruce Allen has been in the organization the franchise has gotten appreciably worse in every single way, which 5 years ago seemed IMPOSSIBLE! Can you imagine that we're so much worse since Vinny F'n Cerrato left?!?!? We've lost 10+ games every season except 2012. He was at least in part responsible for:
-McNabb trade
-$36 million salary cap penalty
-Griffin trade
-Gruden hire and related coaching decisions

While Gruden may not be the sole problem, he's a major symptom and definitely not part of the solution.[/quote]

+1. The good news is Allen owns the dumpster.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1099795]Stop being so sensible. That is not the Redskin way. Lets just assume the guy that inherited a complete disaster that took YEARS to build sucks because he wasnt able to turn burning shit into gold bars with no cap money, no first round pick, and the worst DC in history that was "given" to him, in 13 WEEKS! Holy crap everybody.[/quote]

Answer this for me.. What has Gruden done to give you confidence that next year (and subsequent years) with a 1st round pick, cap money and a new defensive coordinator that he's the right guy?

It seems like many of the support for Gruden returning is based on:
-We don't want to 'send the wrong message' by firing a guy after one year.
-We don't want to hear 'same old Redskins' by firing a guy after one year.
-We don't want to start all over again by firing a guy after one year.
-We don't want to look stupid for firing a guy after one year.

But what the thread is light on is, we probably have the right guy in place based on XYZ and that's why he should return. Looking for reasons to support him.