Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

I don't want this to degenerate into something ugly, so i think its best that we stick to this:

[quote=Ruhskins;547006]
See this is why I made the comment that you mention sources without mentioning them. Can you come up with 3 to 5 articles of paid professionals that have said Campbell won't succeed in Zorns offense? I think it would help your arguments if you did come up with them (I figure given how much you put into your posts, you wouldn't mind doing this).
[/quote]

Actually, i have put links to articles in my posts when we discussed this before, so i didnt feel the need to do it again. Also, these are all articles every respectable internet-loving Redskins fan would have read when we got Zorn in the first place, but apparently some of you have selective memory. Anyway, here are some quotes ala google that speak to his being a poor fit for the WCO, and his weaknesses in general. I only put his weaknesses here because you and others have disputed them in the past and acted as if i was making them up:

[B][U]1. Jim Zorn, Redskins Head Coach[/U][/B]
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/05/AR2008090503414.html?sub=AR]Trying to Get Up to Speed - washingtonpost.com[/url]
[quote]Zorn... was concerned by his[I][B] tendency[/B] to lock onto a particular receiver,[/quote] which contributed to a sack on the first offensive play of the game. Campbell also [I]neglected to attempt to find a primary receiver downfield too often -- opting for "check-downs" to secondary options instead[/I] -- and Zorn is still waiting for a vertical component of his attack take shape. [/QUOTE]
A tendency is not a one-time occurence, its a pattern. Granted, this was the first game of this past season, but its been commented on for years.

[B][U]2. JLCs Famous Anonymous Sources[/U][/B]
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/05/AR2008090503414.html?sub=AR]Trying to Get Up to Speed - washingtonpost.com[/url]

This quote gives me goosebumps every time I read it. If I could fit it in my sig, I would.
[quote]Some scouts and executives believe Campbell is a poor fit for the West Coast offense, with his size and skills favoring seven-step drops and more deep throws, instead of the three-step drops and quick, rhythmic cadence of Zorn's style. "When I watch that team, I think something's going to have to give,"said one NFL executive who has studied Campbell closely and believes he could succeed as a drop-back passer. "Is it the scheme or the quarterback? At some point either the coach is going to have to change what he does to fit the quarterback, or they're going to need a different quarterback."[/quote]

Ok, sorry but i've got to take care of some things, and didnt have time to look for any more articles after that one. This was the first one that came up when I did a search. I'll look for more and add to this post when I have time.

On a side note, if you go back to WP:RI last year, Jason was hating on the marriage of Zorn/Campbell ever since we brought Zorn here. Now, when its being reported we're pursuing another QB, JLC is criticizing the FO even though its a move his own sources, told him was inevitable. Kinda makes you wonder what his motives are...

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

I think you are overvaluing the information found in throwaway/space filler non-quotes in articles written over a season ago, but hey, at least it's [I]something[/I].

I mean, I don't think you can take any of this and say Campbell [U]definately[/U] has unresolvable issues in the WCO, but at least you can blame someone for poor reporting.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;547059][B][U]1. Jim Zorn, Redskins Head Coach[/U][/B]
[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/05/AR2008090503414.html?sub=AR"]Trying to Get Up to Speed - washingtonpost.com[/URL]
which contributed to a sack on the first offensive play of the game. Campbell also [I]neglected to attempt to find a primary receiver downfield too often -- opting for "check-downs" to secondary options instead[/I] -- and Zorn is still waiting for a vertical component of his attack take shape. [/quote]
Using quotes from "Some scouts and executives" and an unnamed "NFL Executive" after the first game for Zorn/Campbell together in the WCO against a against a top 5 defense, is hardly solid support for your arguments. Shall we review what Zorn has to say in the same article (Zorn knows a thing or two aobut QBs, and is risking his reputation and livelihood on JC); "[B]Zorn discounted the notion Campbell might not be a perfect fit for this offense but was honest about the length of time necessary to grasp it fully[/B]. He spoke again yesterday about how "wild" Pro Bowl passer Matt Hasselbeck was in his first season in Seattle with Zorn as quarterbacks coach, even after Hasselbeck's four years as a backup in the same system in Green Bay, [B]but said Campbell has enough talent to overcome any hiccups. [/B]
"I think he's got enough athleticism, I really do, to speed up his game in certain situations," Zorn said. "And part of that, I'm hoping, is just the idea of understanding the offense better, the speed of it. He's not there yet, but I'm not totally discouraged. We have to make big plays when the opportunity is there."

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

I post the following story not as gospel-truth, of course, but as fuel for this discussion:

Browns will draft Crabtree or Sanchez
[url=http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=10205907]Sources: Browns Will Take Either Sanchez Or Crabtree[/url]

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Lotus;547105]I post the following story not as gospel-truth, of course, but as fuel for this discussion:

Browns will draft Crabtree or Sanchez
[URL="http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=10205907"]Sources: Browns Will Take Either Sanchez Or Crabtree[/URL][/quote]The Browns really haven't done a whole lot to dispute this, with the whole trying to trade the entire offense and all.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

Hey BHA I'm not sold on JC myself, but I certainly see a ton of good stuff that he does.

I want your analysis on what you like as a scout about JC. I'm serious. Tell us what he does well.

Don't give me some two sentence garbage because I know you like to go into detail.

What does JC do well in your opinion?

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Lotus;547105]I post the following story not as gospel-truth, of course, but as fuel for this discussion:

Browns will draft Crabtree or Sanchez
[url=http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=10205907]Sources: Browns Will Take Either Sanchez Or Crabtree[/url][/quote]

It looks like the Sanchez point will be moot for us. If Seattle doesn't take him at #4, the Browns will take him at #5. We don't have enough ammo unless we do something TRULY stupid to get up to #3 for him. If we move up at all at this point I can see us trying to get to #9 if Orapko is there so we get him before SF picks.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Paintrain;547109]It looks like the Sanchez point will be moot for us. If Seattle doesn't take him at #4, the Browns will take him at #5. We don't have enough ammo unless we do something TRULY stupid to get up to #3 for him.[B] If we move up at all at this point I can see us trying to get to #9 if Orapko is there so we get him before SF picks[/B].[/quote] I agree. That is the only scenario I see us moving up, anything else would be ridiculous.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/04/17/broncos-will-bring-in-sanchez-for-workout/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Broncos will work out USC QB Sanchez on Tuesday «[/url]

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

I will stand behind my team if we overlook all of our real needs and waste a pick on a guy who we do not need. I will stand behind my team as JC gets sacked every other play, and we have the leagues fewest sacks. I will stand behind my team when our entire D line is on IR due to Alzheimers. Skins fan for life here, regardless of the utter stupidity of the thought of Sanchez. Hopefully, all this Sanchez hype is so a team that maybe is on the fence about him, will jump on him so we wont get him... thus leaving behind a guy that we could really use.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

What ever came of Sanchez's arrest for sexual assault in 2006?

Oh...that's right...it's USC....nevermind....it got swept under the same rug as the Reggie Bush recruiting violations.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=AuburnRedskin;547171]What ever came of Sanchez's arrest for sexual assault in 2006?

Oh...that's right...it's USC....nevermind....it got swept under the same rug as the Reggie Bush recruiting violations.[/quote]

Did you know that Brennan got in jail for sex assault too

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Nflnick11;547173]Did you know that Brennan got in jail for sex assault too[/quote]

No wonder they're trying to get rid of Campbell.....we want a team that won't take no for an answer

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=wilsowilso;547107]Hey BHA I'm not sold on JC myself, but I certainly see a ton of good stuff that he does.

I want your analysis on what you like as a scout about JC. I'm serious. Tell us what he does well.

Don't give me some two sentence garbage because I know you like to go into detail.

What does JC do well in your opinion?[/quote]

JC has alot of great qualities ON the field, but when you asked me that question, the first thing that came to my mind what the guy he is OFF the field. The recent Cutler fiasco is a perfect example of character and class. Yes, the NFL is a business, and players get traded all the time - its a fact of life. But Quarterbacks are different. They deserve extra "respect" by the FO and Campbell had ever right to be pissed:

4 years ago we traded to get him to be our QB of the future. Then we sit him on the bench far too long when the guy in front of him was playing like doo-doo, weve made him learn 3 systems in 4 years and when he's finally been in a system two years in a row - a system he's perfect for - the HC retires, we fire the OC, and bring in a new coach, a new system, one that exposes his flaws and doesnt take advantage of his strengths (which i will discuss in a minute). Zorn specifically tells Snyder, Cerrato, the media, and Campbell that it will take AT LEAST 2-3 years for him to adapt to the system (as it took Matt Hassleback). Campbell has to start from scratch, but atleast its made abundantly clear, that he's not EXPECTED to be great in the system right away. Campbell accepts all of this, works his butt off, does everything asked of him, plays extremely effecient all year, despite a line that started a justin Geisinger at LT at one point, and gets no thanks for it. After only one pretty good year in a system management knows he needs atleast 2-3 years in, they refuses to commit to him and then tries to trade for a whiny diabetic with an alcohol problem behind his back. This team has done nothing but screw him over in one way or another at every turn. If I were Campbell, i'd want the hell out of Washington as soon as I could. What does Campbell do? He goes to work. He says nothing bad about this team publically, or to any friends that might be inclined to leak something to the media. He's handled everything with an incredible amount of intelligence, dignity and class, and i have immense respect in Campbell for that.

Now on to Campbells ON-field Strengths:

1. He's got a HUGE arm and deadly accurate deep ball. Unfortunately for a number of reasons (some of them his own and some of them outside of his control), its NEVER been taken advantage of in DC.
2. His size (duh)
3. He is willing to learn and learns very quickly.
4. He's excellent when he has an o-line that can consistently protect him while he makes a 5-7step drop.
5. He's very quick to escape blitzers and then run for big yards when his receivers arent open. I'm sure his coaches generally want him to only do this as a last resort, but it really is one of his biggest assets. Call more designed running plays and defenders will stay up closer and open things up more in the passing game.
6. He sells play action very well.
7. He's very careful with the ball, but i think he's almost too careful. Alot of this is overcompensation from when he was in college and threw it up to often. Alot of it is not being comfortable in a system and being too afraid to make a mistake, knowing what a short leash he is on. Alot of it is not trusting that his dwarf receviers will win in a fight for the ball.
8. He's showed steady improvement in a number of areas each year in the NFL. (The one i'm most impressed with is not fumbling the ball - id rather him throw 2 INTs 40 yards down the field than take one fumble behind the LOS.)

But steady improvement isnt enough. IMO, Campbells only chance to keep his job here or win one somewhere else is to say [B]"screw it"[/B] and start taking some chances. If he does this (and gets a some help from his receivers), he'll stop making "steady improvement" and take the giant leap he needs to propel him to the next level. At this point, Campbell doesnt have anything to lose. If he doesnt have a GREAT year, he'll never get another starting shot unless the starting QB of whatever team he's on gets hurt.

If Campbell had been drafted by almost any other team, he'd be someones franchise QB and have signed a lucrative multi-year extension by now. He'd be someones franchise QB, and he'd be set for life. Instead, at best (due to circumstances largely out of his control) he's got a 50/50 chance right now of being a career clipboard holder. Through constant change and stupid front office and head coaching moves, the Redskins have taken a player with enormous potential and completely screwed him up. If Campbell somehow manages to succeed this year, i hope he refuses to sign an extension with the skins unless he gets a 6+year contract and the skins extend Zorn as well.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;547177]

But steady improvement isnt enough. [B]IMO, Campbells only chance to keep his job here or win one somewhere else is to say [B]"screw it"[/B] and start taking some chances.[/B] If he does this (and gets a some help from his receivers), he'll stop making "steady improvement" and take the giant leap he needs to propel him to the next level. At this point, Campbell doesnt have anything to lose. If he doesnt have a GREAT year, he'll never get another starting shot unless the starting QB of whatever team he's on gets hurt.

[/quote]

What if, instead of saying "screw it, I'm taking more chances," he takes more chances as part of his natural growth within the offensive system? That is, I'm quite sure that last offseason Zorn told JC that he had to reduce turnovers. Check, done. Next step in growing into a new offense: taking more shots down field. I'm quite sure that Zorn and JC are working on this now.

It is a process. Remember that it took Hasselbeck 4 years to "get it" and become a Pro Bowler.

I've said it before and I will say it again: if JC just gets his yards per attempt above 7.0 (by taking more shots down field), while keeping his turnovers down, he will be a qb we can win with for a long time.