Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

I agree with SP about MS being held back the the cap penalty. This organization was so broken and lacking in talent from years of mismanagement that MS really needed that extra cap $ to get this team the talent it sorely needs. IMO, that penalty set MS back at least 2 years. Personally I hope they let MS finish out his contract and see where this organization is talent-wise and then make a decision about what to do with the HC and staff.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

^ I believe he should be. People forget how bad things were when he took over and about the cap penalty. He's put some great young talent in place with the limited draft picks Vinny left us and managed to get us the first franchise QB we've had since Joe Theismann.

Haslett's 3-4 conversion has been a disaster, so we definitely need to reset that side of the ball, but Shanahan has done a fantastic job in my opinion. Kyle's playcalling has been suspect too, so we can do without him if we need to make changes, but Mike should stay and get the opportunity to finish what he has started. I'd be fine with him taking back playcalling from his son too.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Great feeback guys!

Just curious to what you think, but if Mike accepts he picked the wrong guy to run the D, will he be so willing to accept he made the same mistake on the other side of the ball and move on from both Haslett and Kyle in the same off-season?

Again, curiosity based as much on the obvious family ties to the latter as anything.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Welcome Starry Plough! I'm in the category of keeping Mike Shanahan for at least his last season. My thoughts seem to be that Mike is "hands off" when it comes to the defense. I'm sure he has some input into bringing defensive personnel to the team, but I tend to believe that he relies heavily on Jim Haslett to take care of that side of the ball. I might be completely wrong on that, but it seems that way considering how much more improved the offense is compared to the defense.

When Joe Gibbs was coaching in his second tenure, the main complaint amongst many Redskins fans here was that his offense was anemic. The defense was always a top 10 defense [Gregg Williams being the DC] that kept the Redskins in every game they played, but the offense was unspectacular. We even had fans saying they'd rather see the Redskins lose but put up 30+ points and be entertained than what they were seeing out of Joe Gibbs' teams.

With that said, we ['skins fans] have gotten what we have asked for. An offense that can move the ball easily and put up points, an offense that entertains us and is spectacular, but a team that still finds ways to lose games. I would probably ask those 'skins fans who were the loudest boo birds during the Gibbs' era, how entertained are you now?

Where I think Mike's downfall lies is that he expects the defensive coordinator to be in full control; to bring in the guys on defense he wants, to bring in the defensive philosophy that he feels works best, and to have the defense playing top ten football. That hasn't happened. So, do we blame Mike Shanahan for the defense, or do we blame the front office for supplying Mike with Jim Haslett? I guess that is the real question. If it was the front office telling Mike that Jim is the best option, roll with Haslett and see what he can do for you, then I find it difficult to blame Shanahan for Haslett's inability to improve the defense.

That's why I feel the 'skins keep Mike Shanahan with the caveat that Jim Haslett is jettisoned by the end of the season in favor of a better defensive coordinator, or that if the 'skins keep Jim Haslett on, Mike Shanahan becomes more involved on the defensive side of the ball, because obviously Haslett needs help.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040696]I agree with SP about MS being held back the the cap penalty. This organization was so broken and lacking in talent from years of mismanagement that MS really needed that extra cap $ to get this team the talent it sorely needs. IMO, that penalty set MS back at least 2 years. Personally I hope they let MS finish out his contract and see where this organization is talent-wise and then make a decision about what to do with the HC and staff.[/quote]

I whole heartedly agree on your assessment of the MS era.

Year 1 he had to bring in some talent, and made a mistake with McFlabb.

Year 2 he had to contend with no FA and the lockout and build a team in a week.

Year 3 he finally got the QB, and made a mistake with Fletch and Morgan's contracts all while getting hit with a 18 Mil dollar Cap penalty. The team caught fire and won the NFC E.

Year 4 he is still dealing with the second 18 Mil cap penalty and could only get the same team from year 3 with a couple of decent draft picks as well. He could have fired Has at that point but continuity was a big buzz word so he stood pat with what he already had in place.

SO to say he really got a fair shot at a 5 year building plan isn't even close to accurate. He has changed the culture in DC but has been unable to get all the pieces in place to build a contending team.

I say give the guy at least his last year of his contract, and even sign him to a 2 year extension to see what he can really do given a level playing field with the rest of the NFL.

BUT Haslett and the failed 3-4 have to go and a new DC needs to come in to fix the defense. If this team had any sort of defense this year we would be able to contend for the east and while we are not yet mathematically eliminated from the playoffs yet it is a much harder boat to row this year. IF by some chance they are able to pull themselves up from the cellar and win this division it will be an amazing feat for a team with as many problems we have on all 3 sides of the ball.

WELCOME Brother from across the big pond SP!!!

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Ok, I’ve been convinced. Shanny stays lol!

Cheers again to all for the kind welcomes btw.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1040701]I whole heartedly agree on your assessment of the MS era.

Year 1 he had to bring in some talent, and made a mistake with McFlabb.

Year 2 he had to contend with no FA and the lockout and build a team in a week.

Year 3 he finally got the QB, and made a mistake with Fletch and Morgan's contracts all while getting hit with a 18 Mil dollar Cap penalty. The team caught fire and won the NFC E.

Year 4 he is still dealing with the second 18 Mil cap penalty and could only get the same team from year 3 with a couple of decent draft picks as well. He could have fired Has at that point but continuity was a big buzz word so he stood pat with what he already had in place.

SO to say he really got a fair shot at a 5 year building plan isn't even close to accurate. He has changed the culture in DC but has been unable to get all the pieces in place to build a contending team.

I say give the guy at least his last year of his contract, and even sign him to a 2 year extension to see what he can really do given a level playing field with the rest of the NFL.

BUT Haslett and the failed 3-4 have to go and a new DC needs to come in to fix the defense. If this team had any sort of defense this year we would be able to contend for the east and while we are not yet mathematically eliminated from the playoffs yet it is a much harder boat to row this year. IF by some chance they are able to pull themselves up from the cellar and win this division it will be an amazing feat for a team with as many problems we have on all 3 sides of the ball.

WELCOME Brother from across the big pond SP!!![/quote]
Well said, and all those factor add up, even though it seems like there are people who discount all or some of it. I don't know about an extension, but it sure seems like MS ought to get to finish his contract.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

I'm still on the fence, I think the team needs to show something in these last 7 games.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=skinsguy;1040700]Welcome Starry Plough! I'm in the category of keeping Mike Shanahan for at least his last season. My thoughts seem to be that Mike is "hands off" when it comes to the defense. I'm sure he has some input into bringing defensive personnel to the team, but I tend to believe that he relies heavily on Jim Haslett to take care of that side of the ball. I might be completely wrong on that, but it seems that way considering how much more improved the offense is compared to the defense.

When Joe Gibbs was coaching in his second tenure, the main complaint amongst many Redskins fans here was that his offense was anemic. The defense was always a top 10 defense [Gregg Williams being the DC] that kept the Redskins in every game they played, but the offense was unspectacular. We even had fans saying they'd rather see the Redskins lose but put up 30+ points and be entertained than what they were seeing out of Joe Gibbs' teams.

With that said, we ['skins fans] have gotten what we have asked for. An offense that can move the ball easily and put up points, an offense that entertains us and is spectacular, but a team that still finds ways to lose games. I would probably ask those 'skins fans who were the loudest boo birds during the Gibbs' era, how entertained are you now?

Where I think Mike's downfall lies is that he expects the defensive coordinator to be in full control; to bring in the guys on defense he wants, to bring in the defensive philosophy that he feels works best, and to have the defense playing top ten football. That hasn't happened. So, do we blame Mike Shanahan for the defense, or do we blame the front office for supplying Mike with Jim Haslett? I guess that is the real question. If it was the front office telling Mike that Jim is the best option, roll with Haslett and see what he can do for you, then I find it difficult to blame Shanahan for Haslett's inability to improve the defense.

That's why I feel the 'skins keep Mike Shanahan with the caveat that Jim Haslett is jettisoned by the end of the season in favor of a better defensive coordinator, or that if the 'skins keep Jim Haslett on, Mike Shanahan becomes more involved on the defensive side of the ball, because obviously Haslett needs help.[/quote]

Gibbs 2.0 is a big part of why this organization is still playing talent catch-up.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Gibbs second run was ages ago in football terms. Time to put that in the rearview. What's happened in the last 3-4 years is much more relevant.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Gibbs took the team to 2 playoff appearances

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040713]Gibbs second run was ages ago in football terms. Time to put that in the rearview. What's happened in the last 3-4 years is much more relevant.[/quote]

Of course its more relevant because its more recent but instead of helping to dig the Skins out of the hole, Gibbs 2.0 dig it even deeper.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040719]Of course its more relevant because its more recent but instead of helping to dig the Skins out of the hole, Gibbs 2.0 dig it even deeper.[/quote]

What sort of long term effects are we still feeling from 6 years ago?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040719]Of course its more relevant because its more recent but instead of helping to dig the Skins out of the hole, Gibbs 2.0 dig it even deeper.[/quote]

Man your talking about ancient history. The Saints went from 3-13 to SB champions in the span of 4 years, I think that shows just how quick you can turn things around in the NFL. If Gibbs did mess up the roster that badly, which he didn't, we've easily had more than enough time to turn it around. Fletcher and Moss are the only two players remaining from that era.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040720]What sort of long term effects are we still feeling from 6 years ago?[/quote]

Its all those given away draft picks and young players that might have been Skins who might now be leaders on this team. Of course its impossible to know what might have been I feel like the Skins could have built their future through the draft and develop their team the way other successful teams do. Kind of like compounded interest on a savings account.