Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;547490]Pain, those were exactly my thoughts.

I dont want a coaching change-period. I'm not going to reiterate my questions about Campbell in this system, but if the team drafted a rookie QB, it would "garauntee" Zorn got atleast 2-3 more years. Zorn is the ideal coach to groom a rookie QB and I think, aside from Campbell making a giant leap in his play this year, Zorns only shot of sticking beyond 2009 is to draft and groom his own QB. I fear if we stick with Campbell, both he and Zorn will be fired and we'll start from scratch next year. And by scratch, i mean scratch. I doubt Bugel sticks around for another regime change. The offensive coaches would all be gone if Holmgren, Gruden, or Shanahan were hired, plus those guys would all insist on their own QB. If Cowher were hired, you can kiss our entire defensive staff goodbye when we would move to a 3-4.

i like Zorn alot. He experienced alot of growing pains last year and was responsible for some piss-poor playcalling, but i have confidence that he'll get better each year. I think our teams best chance at having long term success is to stick with Zorn, let him pick his own QB, and then let him groom his own QB - as you said, build this team from the QB position outward (whether thats with sanchez or Quinn)

Our defense will be fine and our o-line, despite its age, will benefit from having Dockery and a healthy Randy Thomas back. I'm a beleiver in Stephon Heyer being solid as well. I'm 90% certain Marcus Washington is coming back, so he, Blades and Thomas can hold down SLB spot. With the DE position, weve got two solid old guys in rotation with the possibility that Buzbee and Jackson improving and getting some action. In short, if we don't draft Ol, DE, or OLB with our 1st round pick, we'll be ok - no matter whos' under center.[/quote]

I don't share your optimism but I'll go along.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;547490]Pain, those were exactly my thoughts.

I dont want a coaching change-period. I'm not going to reiterate my questions about Campbell in this system, but if the team drafted a rookie QB, it would "garauntee" Zorn got atleast 2-3 more years. Zorn is the ideal coach to groom a rookie QB and I think, aside from Campbell making a giant leap in his play this year, Zorns only shot of sticking beyond 2009 is to draft and groom his own QB. I fear if we stick with Campbell, both he and Zorn will be fired and we'll start from scratch next year. And by scratch, i mean scratch. I doubt Bugel sticks around for another regime change. The offensive coaches would all be gone if Holmgren, Gruden, or Shanahan were hired, plus those guys would all insist on their own QB. If Cowher were hired, you can kiss our entire defensive staff goodbye when we would move to a 3-4.

i like Zorn alot. He experienced alot of growing pains last year and was responsible for some piss-poor playcalling, but i have confidence that he'll get better each year. I think our teams best chance at having long term success is to stick with Zorn, let him pick his own QB, and then let him groom his own QB - as you said, build this team from the QB position outward (whether thats with sanchez or Quinn)

Our defense will be fine and our o-line, despite its age, will benefit from having Dockery and a healthy Randy Thomas back. I'm a beleiver in Stephon Heyer being solid as well. I'm 90% certain Marcus Washington is coming back, so he, Blades and Thomas can hold down SLB spot. With the DE position, weve got two solid old guys in rotation with the possibility that Buzbee and Jackson improving and getting some action. In short, if we don't draft Ol, DE, or OLB with our 1st round pick, we'll be ok - no matter whos' under center.[/quote]

BHA, I hear you. While you know we disagree on Campbell's potential here, we agree that with Campbell this is a make or break season and if it's break, then Zorn is going also.

I'm interested in in what scenario do you see Quinn as our starting QB on opening day? How would those trade machinations work out?

I'm also on board (surprisingly) with your assessment of a Sanchez based draft day. That would mean Washington, who hasn't gotten a sniff anywhere else, would come back as the starter at SLB, we've got players who have started for us before with Heyer and Daniels/Wynn who can man the RT and DE spots so we'd be entering the season with some youth, some age but nothing we hadn't seen before at those spots. It's far from the ideal scenario but it's not doomsday either.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;547490]Pain, those were exactly my thoughts.

I dont want a coaching change-period. I'm not going to reiterate my questions about Campbell in this system, but if the team drafted a rookie QB, it would "garauntee" Zorn got atleast 2-3 more years. Zorn is the ideal coach to groom a rookie QB and I think, aside from Campbell making a giant leap in his play this year, Zorns only shot of sticking beyond 2009 is to draft and groom his own QB. I fear if we stick with Campbell, both he and Zorn will be fired and we'll start from scratch next year. And by scratch, i mean scratch. I doubt Bugel sticks around for another regime change. The offensive coaches would all be gone if Holmgren, Gruden, or Shanahan were hired, plus those guys would all insist on their own QB. If Cowher were hired, you can kiss our entire defensive staff goodbye when we would move to a 3-4.

i like Zorn alot. He experienced alot of growing pains last year and was responsible for some piss-poor playcalling, but i have confidence that he'll get better each year. I think our teams best chance at having long term success is to stick with Zorn, let him pick his own QB, and then let him groom his own QB - as you said, build this team from the QB position outward (whether thats with sanchez or Quinn)

Our defense will be fine and our o-line, despite its age, will benefit from having Dockery and a healthy Randy Thomas back. I'm a beleiver in Stephon Heyer being solid as well. I'm 90% certain Marcus Washington is coming back, so he, Blades and Thomas can hold down SLB spot. With the DE position, weve got two solid old guys in rotation with the possibility that Buzbee and Jackson improving and getting some action. In short, if we don't draft Ol, DE, or OLB with our 1st round pick, we'll be ok - no matter whos' under center.[/quote]

What has Zorn done the past two months to change your opinion of him? I thought you had said recently hiring him was a dumb move, and next offseason (presumably when he's gone) couldn't come soon enough

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;547490]Pain, those were exactly my thoughts.
...
[B] In short, if we don't draft Ol, DE, or OLB with our 1st round pick, we'll be ok - no matter whos' under center[/B].[/quote]

shouldn't your post end "except Campbell"?

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

To me, this whole situation seems very simple:

Acquiring an area of need at #13 (OT, DE, or LB) allows the team to get younger and talented in any of those area. The option of trading down is there, giving us the opportunity to get more young players (i.e. a lower 1st rounder and a 2nd or 3rd rounder)

Keeping Jason Campbell for one season does two things: Allow for true continuity from last year to this year, and put everything squarely on JC's shoulder. Prevent us from losing any future draft picks. If JC does well, then well next year we can continue to build on any success from 2009.

Should Jason Campbell fail, after the 2009 season the team can do a complete overhaul. If we have another mediocre to terrible season, our #1 pick would be a high one, and we would have all of our picks. We can either pick one of the top QBs in next year's draft, or hey maybe Phillip Rivers or Big Ben won't extend with their teams (highly unlikely, but who knows) and we could go after them.

Even if the team fails with JC at the helm, our #13 pick (OT, DE, or LB) in 2009 would be an excellent pick and something we can build on (copyright Herm Edwards) if the team goes through a complete overhaul. But unfortunately the owner is not willing to take that risk, is impatient, and will mortgage the #13 and future picks on Sanchez.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;547482]As Rich points out, if that happened, we wouldnt be in that much different of a position than every other NFL team.

[URL="http://was.scout.com/2/858159.html"]Scout.com: Just a Guy[/URL]



Even if we select one of OL/DE/OLB in the first round, that still leaves us with two holes. Its not like our 3rd round pick could be counted on to be an immediate starter and upgrade over the guys we have. So if your very own personal "worst case scenario" involves the skins trading picks for Sanchez, its not the end of the world. We're already a MUCH better team now than we were when the season ended. As far as i'm concerned, everything we do between now and the regular season is just icing on the cake - to make us even better. Whatever we do with our 1st round pick - OL, DL, LB, QB, RB... whatever - it will certainly be for a player who's better than the guy he's replacing on our roster.

One more random thing - i wouldnt be surprised if, a week from now, Brady Quinn is our defacto starting QB...[/quote]Well, what Tandler is saying is it's just a player if we take Sanchez...which is true, until we trade up. Then it's multiple players.

I'm also wondering what role Quinn has in all this. Perhaps if Sanchez is there at 5, the Redskins and Browns will trade, but not for the 5th pick, but with Quinn/Campbell/the 13th.

I'd much rather have Campbell in this offense than Quinn, and they do share similar weaknesses, but buying low is a far smarter approach than buying high.

Ultimately, I think the 13th overall pick is going to be a defensive player as a Redskin, and that will be that.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

I hope that Peter King's source is correct about Snyder being unwilling to move next year's 1st.

Ultimately I don't think this will end up happening for a few reasons:

There's a very good chance our offense will be significantly better in year 2 for Campbell, Zorn, and a handful of young ball-catchers. Plus the O-line will be in better shape. Snyder knows this. It's not like sticking with the current QB situation is a big roll of the dice. It's safe and prudent, and allows us to fix other holes and maintain continuity and growth with a solid QB and system.

Snyder should not go after Sanchez by shipping off multiple picks and/or players and stick with Campbell instead because regardless of the outcome of Zorn/Campbell in '09, Snyder benefits. We all know as Campbell goes, so does Zorn, and vice versa. If they flop this season, Snyder can dump them both, and will have an opportunity at the outstanding 2010 QB draft class. Not to mention the head coaches that'll be available - Holmgren, Cowher, Gruden, Shanahan, Billick, etc. He would be giddy about the splash he could make.

And if Zorn and Campbell take a big step forward, Snyder looks great for being patient and allowing continuity to play it's course.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

With the Redskins, you never know when they are serious or not.

It's hard to believe they could chase Cutler as hard as they did, and then decide that because they didn't get him, they're in rebuilding all of a sudden. That's reason number one why I don't see them pulling the trigger on the trade up. If he's there at 13, he'll be a Redskin, but that seems impossible.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=sean"big hurt"taylor;540755]i'm starting to come around on drafting this guy if he's available for us at 13th. Jason could become a good quarterback in the near future but i think this kid could be our franchise quarterback for the next 10 -15 years. Everything i hear about him makes me believe that we may have to draft him if he's there. He always make the right read, takes what the defenses gives him, very accurate even on the move and he's cerebral which he is able to go through the playbook and analyze it. They even say he knows where the blitz is coming from even though that was college not the pros but can be taught by zorn. Usc also runs the west coast offense which is similar to ours per fred davis. I was favoring the linebacker rey but sanchez might need to be the answer. Before i get flack for this thread i know we need oline help as well as lb and de help but franchise quarterbacks brings championships. Guys what do you think?[/quote]

you have lost your mind does any body realize that for the last 5 years we have needed a dominating pass rush to contend for the playoffs. We need to either draft a top notch pass rusher or strong side linebacker in first round or an immediate playmaker like a percy harvin. 2nd round we need a complimentary running back for clinton portis if you notice our division is full of two headed monsters in the backfield. We also should have grabbed a torry holt or a ol like peters in free agency . I think we also should bench campbell in favor of brennan

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=skinfan007;547512]you have lost your mind does any body realize that for the last 5 years we have needed a dominating pass rush to contend for the playoffs. We need to either draft a top notch pass rusher or strong side linebacker in first round or an immediate playmaker like a percy harvin. 2nd round we need a complimentary running back for clinton portis if you notice our division is full of two headed monsters in the backfield. We also should have grabbed a torry holt or a ol like peters in free agency . [B]I think we also should bench campbell in favor of brennan[/B][/quote]

Oh boy. :doh:

Welcome aboard though, I'm sure you'll be welcomed by the Cult of Colt soon.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

I still think this is all a smoke screen, if Det takes an OT, and they think we want a qb, maybe they will trade with us. or even trade ahead of us, thus making sure two qbs are drafted ahead of us, and hopefully leaving an OL/DL option.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/20/skins-bluffing-on-sanchez-interest/]ProFootballTalk.com - ‘Skins Bluffing On Sanchez Interest?[/url]

Mike Florio plays up...er down the possibility of us getting Sanchez.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=skinfan007;547512]you have lost your mind does any body realize that for the last 5 years we have needed a dominating pass rush to contend for the playoffs. We need to either draft a top notch pass rusher or strong side linebacker in first round or an immediate playmaker like a percy harvin. 2nd round we need a complimentary running back for clinton portis if you notice our division is full of two headed monsters in the backfield. We also should have grabbed a torry holt or a ol like peters in free agency . I think we also should bench campbell in favor of brennan[/quote]

So Percy Harvin in the 1st, a complimentary running back in the 2nd (which we don't have), we should have grabbed Torry Holt, an old WR or Peters (who wasn't a free agent) in free agency and we should bench Campbell in favor of Brennan. Wow.

Welcome to the board, your week here should be interesting.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule]shouldn't your post end "except Campbell"?[/quote] Lol, i suppose I deserve that, but seriously - I firmly beleive Campbell will be noticably better in 2009 than he was in 2008... I just don't beleive its likely his play will be enough of an improvement for [U]Snyder[/U] to keep Campbell - Hence all my arguments about moving on now: 1) To get compensation for Campbell; 2) to go ahead and start grooming our next (hopefully) franchise QB.


[quote=SmootSmack]What has Zorn done the past two months to change your opinion of him? I thought you had said recently hiring him was a dumb move, and next offseason (presumably when he's gone) couldn't come soon enough[/quote] I like Zorn and I like Campbell - I just dont like them [U]together[/U]. While its possible both Zorn and Campbell have success in 2009 and beyond, i dont think its likely. If you asked me to chose between the two now, i'd chose Zorn, if for no other reason than that if we fired him after 2009 and kept Campbell, Campbell would have to learn [I]another[/I] offense and start from scratch again.

We've kept the same defensive scheme in place 5 years and, with one exception, our defense has been very good for those 5 years. The way i see it, we committed to the WCO and we need to keep it here a minimum of 5 years. Lets keep the system in place and gradually adjust our personnel to suit that system over the course of that timeframe.

BHA, I hear you. While you know we disagree on Campbell's potential here, we agree that with Campbell this is a make or break season and if it's break, then Zorn is going also.

[I]I'm interested in in what scenario do you see Quinn as our starting QB on opening day? How would those trade machinations work out?[/I]

[quote=Paintrain]I'm also on board (surprisingly) with your assessment of a Sanchez based draft day. That would mean Washington, who hasn't gotten a sniff anywhere else, would come back as the starter at SLB, we've got players who have started for us before with Heyer and Daniels/Wynn who can man the RT and DE spots so we'd be entering the season with some youth, some age but nothing we hadn't seen before at those spots. It's far from the ideal scenario but it's not doomsday either. [/quote]

As soon as I read that the skins were in the midst of a 3-way trade with Denver and the Browns, i wondered if Brady Quinn was our true objective and the deal would have sent Cutler to Cleavland, Quinn to DC (Cerrato is a ND boy and loves him some Quinn), and Campbell to Denver... but all the reports indicated we wanted Cutler, so i dismissed the notion.

Then, in his column today, Peter King indicated that the Browns are just as in love with Sanchez as Snyder. I also read a report today (can't remember where) that said the Skins have a tentative deal in place with Browns for a trade if Sanchez falls to Cleavlands spot. Given that Cleavland (evidently) prefers Sanchez and Anderson to Quinn (why are they even looking at Sanchez when they have those two?), it made sense to me that we would be trading for QUINN, after Cleavland selected Sanchez. So, I think its entirely possible that a senario similar to this could happen:

Brady Quinn and Braylon Edwards to Washington for our #13 and Fred Davis (and probably another player)

This would also explain why:
1. The Browns are looking at QBs when they just drafted one in the 1st round. (New coach wants to pick his own guy)
2. There were rumors of Cooley being traded to Cleveland (right position, wrong player)
3. The Browns have yet to trade Edwards. (Our deals better)

In the end, the Browns would get rid of two players they dont really want while picking up a 1st rounder and a starter, and we'd get the "franchise" QB and "stud" WR covetted by Snyder for so long, while only giving up our 2009 1st rounder and a starting caliber TE who is stuck behind a pro-bowler. We'd probably have to give up something else (possibly Santana Moss, ARE, or D. Thomas), but in the end, both sides would get what they covet, without having to give up anything they really wanted.

Again, thats all pure speculation, but its just a possibility that occurred to me after reading Kings article today.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;547506]To me, this whole situation seems very simple:

Acquiring an area of need at #13 (OT, DE, or LB) allows the team to get younger and talented in any of those area. The option of trading down is there, giving us the opportunity to get more young players (i.e. a lower 1st rounder and a 2nd or 3rd rounder)

Keeping Jason Campbell for one season does two things: Allow for true continuity from last year to this year, and put everything squarely on JC's shoulder. Prevent us from losing any future draft picks. If JC does well, then well next year we can continue to build on any success from 2009.

Should Jason Campbell fail, after the 2009 season the team can do a complete overhaul. If we have another mediocre to terrible season, our #1 pick would be a high one, and we would have all of our picks. We can either pick one of the top QBs in next year's draft, or hey maybe Phillip Rivers or Big Ben won't extend with their teams (highly unlikely, but who knows) and we could go after them.

Even if the team fails with JC at the helm, our #13 pick (OT, DE, or LB) in 2009 would be an excellent pick and something we can build on (copyright Herm Edwards) if the team goes through a complete overhaul. But unfortunately the owner is not willing to take that risk, is impatient, and will mortgage the #13 and future picks on Sanchez.[/quote]

I hear what your saying, and those would be the positives to look at in a "worst case scenario" situation but the thought of starting over from scratch next year makes me sick. I mean, whens the last time this team has benefited from starting over from scratch?