Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;342393]For what it's worth, I've heard that the Skins intend to name Palmer the #3 QB. Brunell and Collins are basically being showcased this preseason for one of them to get traded in the next couple of weeks.

Let me be clear though, the Redskins are not actively shopping either one. Other teams have inquired and the Skins will only trade them if they find the right deal. If they don't then both likely stay and Palmer heads to the PS.[/quote]

Nice, very nice. This could definitely happen, and from a savings perspective could make the Marshall move more interesting.

Personally, I think we could more for Brunell than some think. Now wouldn't that be a development?

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=70Chip;342399]What are the cap ramifications of a Brunell or Collins trade? BTW, I think we're talking about a Brunell trade here. Collins would be completely useless in a different system. He's pretty useless in this one.[/quote]

I agree 70, I think if anyone goes it's Brunell. Now that Falcon thread doesn't sound so ridiculous.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;342286]No thanks. I know it is important for the starting QB to gain experience through the preseason, but I would prefer to see Jason keep his head for the regular season. The Ravens will eat Heyer and Pucillo alive and, if we're allowing 3 sacks a game to the Titans and Steelers, I don't want to know what they'll do to a wounded JC. I say rest him.[/quote]

I could only imagine what Suggs will do to Heyer. Let Collins, Brunell or Palmer take the beating.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;342393]For what it's worth, I've heard that the Skins intend to name Palmer the #3 QB. Brunell and Collins are basically being showcased this preseason for one of them to get traded in the next couple of weeks.

Let me be clear though, the Redskins are not actively shopping either one. Other teams have inquired and the Skins will only trade them if they find the right deal. If they don't then both likely stay and Palmer heads to the PS.[/quote]

The only value either have is to a team that runs our type of offense. KC, Det, Buff, SD, Miami and maybe STL. Atl might want Brunell as a backup because of the coaching ties. But I think both will be here and I'm fine with that.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;342399]What are the cap ramifications of a Brunell or Collins trade? BTW, I think we're talking about a Brunell trade here. Collins would be completely useless in a different system. He's pretty useless in this one.[/QUOTE]

I don't know the cap ramifications off-hand.

Also, I did hear that there is one team that is very interestd in Collins actually. Off the top of my head I can't remember which one it was. I want to say the Vikings.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

If we could get a 4th round pick for Todd Collins, I'd be as happy as a clam.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;342467]If we could get a 4th round pick for Todd Collins, I'd be as happy as a clam.[/quote]


If we could get a clam for Collins, I'd be happy as pig in slop.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=70Chip;342399]What are the cap ramifications of a Brunell or Collins trade? BTW, I think we're talking about a Brunell trade here. [B]Collins would be completely useless in a different system. He's pretty useless in this one.[/B][/quote]

Which is exactly why we should try to pawn him off on another team. :)

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=12thMan;342468]If we could get a clam for Collins, I'd be happy as pig in slop.[/quote]

Why is everyone so quick to get rid of the guy? If Collins starts against Balt. and throws 4 td's people will still want to get rid of the guy. Give Collins some credit. He is having a very good pre season and it's obvious that the coaches think so too.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

One word answer "NO"

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;342528]Why is everyone so quick to get rid of the guy? If Collins starts against Balt. and throws 4 td's people will still want to get rid of the guy. Give Collins some credit. He is having a very good pre season and it's obvious that the coaches think so too.[/quote]

I'm usually half-way joking when I say get rid of Brunell or Collins. But I think to clear up some cap space and, perhaps, get a decent pick, I'd deal Brunell.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=12thMan;342534]I'm usually half-way joking when I say get rid of Brunell or Collins. But I think to clear up some cap space and, perhaps, get a decent pick, I'd deal Brunell.[/quote]

Well I don't think Collins is going anywhere. Sports Talk 980 reported that Collins took almost all of the snaps with the 1st team offense today in practice. So it looks like Brunell is either 3rd string or they are looking to deal him.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=angryssg;342167]I am with CP on this one, preseason is for the birds; keep the starters healthy.......

I understand that most teams use the 3rd preseason game to simulate a regular season game, but the starters played the entire first half in the first 2 games. IMO what they should do is dedicate the 1st half to the starting offensive line and running the football, that's it. All of the rest of the Starters should get the night off and use the remaining games to evaluate talent at the depth and special teams positions......[/quote]

I agree with you. IMO Campbell needs to rest the knee and get a half of work next week. This is also a great time to evaluate Collins with the first unit and make a decision if it is wise to trade Brunell (I believe from a cap perspective trading Brunell is better for us, but the cap experts here know better than I). If Collins is in the slightest way suspect keep Brunell around and put Palmer on the PS.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

With all of this talk about QB's I did a little research this evening. Some of it is random so bear with me.

First I realized that 2002 was the year of the Career Back up QB, and that is being generous. Of all the 16 QB's that were drafted in 2002 only 8 are still in the league to this day. Of those 8 only 7 actually play QB. Of those 7 only 2 may be starting this year, Harrington and McCown (Due largely to lack of a better player). Only 1 of 3 QB's drafted in the first round that year are starting this year (Harrington thanks to Vick). Those that aren't starting are the number 2 for their club until you get past the 4th round. Of those late round QB's still active, none of them are any higher than a number three QB. The one active 7th rounder is now a starting Wide Receiver with Oakland.

I brought 2002 up because it resembles the average NFL QB Draft class and is far enough back to somewhat evaluate active players fairly. If the trend from 2002 holds true for 2007, then our little Jordan Palmer will be nothing more than a 3rd stringer in five years if he is lucky enough to be in the league. If that isn't enough to make a believer out of you then consider this. Never in the history of the NFL has a 6th round QB been inducted in the HOF. There are only 4 QB's ever drafted past the 6th round to be inducted (Unitas 9th, Staubach 10th, Blanda 12th and Star 17th). Only once has an Undrafted QB been worthy of induction (Warren Moon).

My point is this Jordan Palmer is a long shot to even stay in the league past 2 years. To suggest that we would be wise to get rid of Collins or Brunell because of this 6th round rookie is absurd. To get rid of Brunell because of his hefty contract and replace him with someone cheaper with some experience makes more sense. Palmer should stay on the practice Squad all year and compete for a backup role next season if at all. While I agree that we should develop the young guy do you really want him backing up Collins or Brunell in the event that Campbell goes down this year?

I know somebody is going to mention the fact that Tom Brady was a 6th round pick and is an outstanding QB. To you I say you are correct, but as I've mentioned before it is very rare for a QB drafted that low to amount to anything. Tom Brady was already the excecption to the rule for this generation. It is highly unlikely that Jordan Palmer will be the next Tom Brady.

Re: Would You Play Campbell vs Ravens?
 

[quote=angryssg;342686]With all of this talk about QB's I did a little research this evening. Some of it is random so bear with me.

First I realized that 2002 was the year of the Career Back up QB, and that is being generous. Of all the 16 QB's that were drafted in 2002 only 8 are still in the league to this day. Of those 8 only 7 actually play QB. Of those 7 only 2 may be starting this year, Harrington and McCown (Due largely to lack of a better player). Only 1 of 3 QB's drafted in the first round that year are starting this year (Harrington thanks to Vick). Those that aren't starting are the number 2 for their club until you get past the 4th round. Of those late round QB's still active, none of them are any higher than a number three QB. The one active 7th rounder is now a starting Wide Receiver with Oakland.

I brought 2002 up because it resembles the average NFL QB Draft class and is far enough back to somewhat evaluate active players fairly. If the trend from 2002 holds true for 2007, then our little Jordan Palmer will be nothing more than a 3rd stringer in five years if he is lucky enough to be in the league. If that isn't enough to make a believer out of you then consider this. Never in the history of the NFL has a 6th round QB been inducted in the HOF. There are only 4 QB's ever drafted past the 6th round to be inducted (Unitas 9th, Staubach 10th, Blanda 12th and Star 17th). Only once has an Undrafted QB been worthy of induction (Warren Moon).

My point is this Jordan Palmer is a long shot to even stay in the league past 2 years. To suggest that we would be wise to get rid of Collins or Brunell because of this 6th round rookie is absurd. To get rid of Brunell because of his hefty contract and replace him with someone cheaper with some experience makes more sense. Palmer should stay on the practice Squad all year and compete for a backup role next season if at all. While I agree that we should develop the young guy do you really want him backing up Collins or Brunell in the event that Campbell goes down this year?

I know somebody is going to mention the fact that Tom Brady was a 6th round pick and is an outstanding QB. To you I say you are correct, but as I've mentioned before it is very rare for a QB drafted that low to amount to anything. Tom Brady was already the excecption to the rule for this generation. It is highly unlikely that Jordan Palmer will be the next Tom Brady.[/quote]

I think you bring up some good points, and I'm not trying to counter those points as much as expand on a couple of thoughts.

Since 2002, I think you would agree, accross the league there is a youth movement at the quarterback position. It hasn't exactly been OJT, but teams are more willing to groom a young, even a rookie quarterback, straight out the gates instead of him riding the pine for a few years. So I think the attitude toward the readiness and preparedness of young quarterbacks has changed some since 2002 and will continue.

Just as you pointed out that no QB drafted in the sixth round QB has ever made it to Canton, on the other hand, many of them who were drafted in the first round haven't amounted to anything either. In fact, many in recent history, have been straight up flops or busts. The list is pretty long too, you know who they are. So I think the round in which the QB was drafted isn't the sum total of the argument. Let's face it, it takes a pretty special guy to end up in Canton, regardless of the round he was drafted in.

I think nowadays (is that a word?) we have to look at the program the QB came from, not the actual round they were drafted in. That's the biggest knock on J.Palmer, he came from a small program and played against, what scouts believe, inferior competition at the collegiate level. That being said, it's not all that absurd to dump Brunell or Collins for what we can get for them. Teams have been capitilising on our desparation the last couple of years, why can't we return the favor? Look Brunell, will be a cap-casualty next year, so I think why the moment is in our favor, we should be open to what we can get for him.

Additionally, there's not that much risk in making Palmer a third string in my opinion. They generally don't take snaps with the first team anyway, and it's a good way to transition him into the system. Whether or not he'll be a lifetime third stringer remains to be seen. But we've seen a ton of quarterbacks shuffle through DC in the last 15 years that were total garbage.