Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

Long time no talk fella's

I would prefer to stay positive and think that in a few years time, we will all look back and say "Gibbs built the team to win it all and Zorn finished the job."

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;464699]um, so a quarterback, a quarterback coach, and a tragedy that hit every team (you might argue it hit ny, and washington even harder, and increased the rally for the "PATRIOTS") not quite the same as the list presented earlier.[/quote]

My point was every team has it hard, the good ones seem to find a way to win. And it is very similar to the list, well if you dont like that one check out [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXIX]Super Bowl XXXIX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url], where the pats basically lost thier entire secondary having to have a WR Troy Brown play both ways.

Those 2 teams found a way to win through adversity, period. The NFL is based on wins and loses and if you want to judge JG2 on that, than he wasnt very good.

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

by the numbers, JG2 made the playoffs 2 out of his 4 years. How many other coaches did that? He didn't win a SB true, 30 other teams in each season would say the same. He is a top rung coach who brought respectabilibity and pride back to the Skins.

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

Here is a breakdown over the last 4 years:
3 teams went all 4 yrs NE, Indy, Seattle
3 went 3 of the 4 yrs SD, PIT, NYG
4 of those 6 are HOF coaches on stable franchises

17 teams either played in 1 or 0 games

9 teams went 2 of the 4 years. so at worst JG was the 15th best coach during that time and at best the 7th. with EVERYTHING that has been brought up in this thread i think he has to be closer to the 7th then the 15th. And far better then the years in between JG1 and JG2.

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;464735]Here is a breakdown over the last 4 years:
3 teams went all 4 yrs NE, Indy, Seattle
3 went 3 of the 4 yrs SD, PIT, NYG
4 of those 6 are HOF coaches on stable franchises

17 teams either played in 1 or 0 games

9 teams went 2 of the 4 years. so at worst JG was the 15th best coach during that time and at best the 7th. with EVERYTHING that has been brought up in this thread i think he has to be closer to the 7th then the 15th. And far better then the years in between JG1 and JG2.[/quote]

So basically you are saying he was an average coach.

An average coach with the one of if not the highest payrolls in the NFL, not to mention the highest paid coaching staff. Marty Schottenheimer was able to turn around the chargers in far less time, even Marvin Lewis made the Bengals (a perenial laughing stock) winners. Jeff Fischer has made the Titans contenders with not much to work with. Jack Del Rio and on and on.

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

Joe came in an inherited a crappy team and FO, drafted a promising QB in Campbell, cleaned house and straighten it out. As we all know, it takes time to develop a QB, his second time around was as impressive as his first, especially last year (his best coaching job in either 1 or 2). If Joe would of come back this year we would be in the SB this year, maybe Zorn can takes us. Gibbs 2 was different than Gibbs 1 in which he inherited an inexperienced team with few leaders and no GM to help. I don't care what anyone says, Gibbs 2 was great, he made a few mistakes (timeout Buffalo) but people forget all the personal hardship that man endured through the season and still motivated his team to the playoffs. The Suisham missed field goal changed the momentum. People were spoiled from Gibbs 1, the man is human, look at his NASCAR team this year with back at helm. Can you say WINNER!! Enough said.

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

How can u have 2 legacies ??

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;464740]How can u have 2 legacies ??[/QUOTE]

Now there's something to think about!

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;464738]Joe came in an inherited a crappy team and FO, drafted a promising QB in Campbell, cleaned house and straighten it out. As we all know, it takes time to develop a QB, his second time around was as impressive as his first, especially last year (his best coaching job in either 1 or 2). If Joe would of come back this year we would be in the SB this year, maybe Zorn can takes us. Gibbs 2 was different than Gibbs 1 in which he inherited an inexperienced team with few leaders and no GM to help. I don't care what anyone says, Gibbs 2 was great, he made a few mistakes (timeout Buffalo) but people forget all the personal hardship that man endured through the season and still motivated his team to the playoffs. The Suisham missed field goal changed the momentum. People were spoiled from Gibbs 1, the man is human, look at his NASCAR team this year with back at helm. Can you say WINNER!! Enough said.[/quote]

C'mon man. You've got to be kidding me. Don't you think you're going a little overboard here? I love JG's. But to say Gibbs 2 was great is just way off. Let's face it. The offense is his side of the ball. He has nothing to do with the defense. His offense, as far as scoring points was concerned, wasn't very good. Blown 2nd half leads, poor clock mgt, his loyalty to Brunell and conservative play calling were things he could control. For the most part he did a below average job in these areas. You know if Zorn makes the same game day mistakes Gibbs did, he'd be run out of town. If it wasn't for GW's defense then we don't win the playoff game at TB. 3/4 years GW fielded a top 10 defense with average to slightly above talent and he was run out of town. Let's not let our love for Gibbs stand in the way of giving an objective opinion about his is 2nd go around.

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

And another thing that bothers me is everyone says we went to the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years. Yes, that is a fact. But we won ONE game. That's one playoff game in 4 years. Let's not get carried away here. Have our expectations sunk so low that we're happy to simply make the playoffs and go home after one game?

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42;464737]So basically you are saying he was an average coach.
[/QUOTE]

Not really.

My position is that JG2 was a far better coach than any others in the span between JG1 and JG2, and that he gave the Skins a chance going forward. Every other coach in that span left with the team back in disarray, Gibbs did not.
He was not the HOF coach from the 1980's, but he didn't have an owner like Jack Kent Cooke. I think (I hope) he taught Dan Snyder how to be that kind of owner, but that part of his time will only be determined after 5-10 years. The teams he fielded and brought to play for the past four years at least made you proud of the Skins as a team.
I guess my final point on it, is that to me, a Redskins fan since I was able to watch TV, (long long ago in a galaxy far away), is JG2's legacy rest more on what he re-established, [B]pride honor balance[/B], then the specific fact that his offense was lacking. If you want to lessen his time here cuz he didn't win enough, you certainly can, but I can't.

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;464764]And another thing that bothers me is everyone says we went to the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years. Yes, that is a fact. But we won ONE game. That's one playoff game in 4 years. Let's not get carried away here. Have our expectations sunk so low that we're happy to simply make the playoffs and go home after one game?[/QUOTE]

I'm with you on the "lowered expectations" (said in the sing songy voice used on MadTV's Lowered Expectations). But there's a definite reason for it, it's called "We averaged 7 wins a season" in the 11 seasons between Gibbs' coaching stints.

I think we're missing the genius of what Coach Gibbs did. He got Dan Snyder to see the folly of the big spending sprees, but its how he did it that's sick. Instead of coming in and saying, "That's not how we did it in my day" Coach Gibbs said "Fire up Redskins One!" You know Snyder still views 2000 as the "Lost Season," that if he had any coach other than Norv Turner then all those moves would have paid off, especially coming off the playoff push in '99. Well, Gibbs said "OK, I'll show you" and after '05 he allowed Snyder to crank up Redskin One and use his lucky pen to sign all the free agents he wanted, which then resulted in 5 wins and an offense best described as limited.

Nah, Gibbs 2.0 to me will be defined by the lesson he taught our owner. Gibbs showed Snyder that a team is not built overnight, that even legendary coaches can struggle, and that he should invest more in the draft and use free agency (and his checkbook) judiciously. And he taught all those lessons without ever once actually saying those things, he allowed Snyder the space to grow as an owner. And then, just to show that he still has it, he was somehow able to get the team to come together after it's best player was murdered in his home. Maybe on the field Gibbs was just ok, but overall, dude did the damn thing, and better than anybody else could have.

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;464764]And another thing that bothers me is everyone says we went to the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years. Yes, that is a fact. But we won ONE game. That's one playoff game in 4 years. Let's not get carried away here. Have our expectations sunk so low that we're happy to simply make the playoffs and go home after one game?[/QUOTE]

Had you watched between 1993 and 2004? Our franchise had sunk that low, we were becoming meaningless. And between 1988 and 1991, guess what we only won 1 playoff game then too.

EDIT: And for the record 1993-2003: 2 playoff appearance 1 win. That's all folks.

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;464785]Had you watched between 1993 and 2004? Our franchise had sunk that low, we were becoming meaningless. And between 1988 and 1991, guess what we only won 1 playoff game then too.

EDIT: And for the record 1993-2003: 2 playoff appearance 1 win. That's all folks.[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY! But you've given us one playoff appearance too many, only made the playoffs in '99 during that stretch. So Gibbs 2.0 in that lens is a resurgence!

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 

I simply meant 2 games, not in separate years. Wouldn't want anyone thinking we had 2 playoff seasons :nono: