Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=Defensewins;521198]Word on the street is after Gibbs left, GW's interview with Danny Boy did not go well. GW said he wanted Vinny Bag of Doughnuts gone if he were Head Coach. Snyder, who loves Vinny and can not live with out him quickly fired GW.[/quote]

I heard that at the time but cannot remember the source. I also remember hearing that Williams respected Saunders and thought he should have control of the offense while Danny/Vinny wanted nothing to do w/ Saunders. Ultimately, Danny chose to go into rebuild mode instead of building on what we had (rebuilding both in terms of leadership and offensive system, for instance I think it was apparent by end of '08 Williams was a leader as much as Gibbs and I specifically remember several players speaking to that during and after the search for a new HC.) Danny didn't exactly blow up the team because Blache stepped in and retained a very effective defense; however in terms of team leadership and the entire offense it seems obvious we're in rebuild mode once again.

While speculation is cheap my best intuition is that w/ Williams as HC and Saunders most likely in control of the offense we'd be better than 8-8 and maybe much better as Saunders offense always yields bigger dividends over time. Oh well, I wholeheartedly want Zorn to have tremendous success now that he's here. In fact I think his success is critical because, just guessing again here, I highly highly doubt another high quality, high character HC will work for Dan Snyder for a very long time. It's Vinny, it's the way Danny handled the Spags circumstance, and not least how Danny handled the situation w/ Williams who regardless of what some rather bitter Skins fans might say is extremely well respected in the NFL, altogether I just don't see anyone great working for Snyder.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=The Goat;521201]I heard that at the time but cannot remember the source. I also remember hearing that Williams respected Saunders and thought he should have control of the offense while Danny/Vinny wanted nothing to do w/ Saunders. Ultimately, Danny chose to go into rebuild mode instead of building on what we had (rebuilding both in terms of leadership and offensive system, for instance I think it was apparent by end of '08 Williams was a leader as much as Gibbs and I specifically remember several players speaking to that during and after the search for a new HC.) Danny didn't exactly blow up the team because Blache stepped in and retained a very effective defense; however in terms of team leadership and the entire offense it seems obvious we're in rebuild mode once again.

[b]While speculation is cheap my best intuition is that w/ Williams as HC and Saunders most likely in control of the offense we'd be better than 8-8 and maybe much better as Saunders offense always yields bigger dividends over time. [/b] Oh well, I wholeheartedly want Zorn to have tremendous success now that he's here. In fact I think his success is critical because, just guessing again here, I highly highly doubt another high quality, high character HC will work for Dan Snyder for a very long time. It's Vinny, it's the way Danny handled the Spags circumstance, and not least how Danny handled the situation w/ Williams who regardless of what some rather bitter Skins fans might say is extremely well respected in the NFL, altogether I just don't see anyone great working for Snyder.[/quote]
You know, I was never really a Grilliams guy and never thought much of him as a HC 'replacement' but that being said I think you could be right or at least if there was a 'two year' ultimatum in place as rumored, he and Saunders should have had that two years to build off of their existing work and then blow it up if it didn't sustain or improve.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=Defensewins;521198]Word on the street is after Gibbs left, GW's interview with Danny Boy did not go well. GW said he wanted Vinny Bag of Doughnuts gone if he were Head Coach. Snyder, who loves Vinny and can not live with out him quickly fired GW.[/quote]

And I guess since all the teams that have hired a coach so far passed on him, maybe we made the right choice in hiring Zorn? I think so.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=The Goat;521201]I heard that at the time but cannot remember the source. I also remember hearing that Williams respected Saunders and thought he should have control of the offense while Danny/Vinny wanted nothing to do w/ Saunders. Ultimately, Danny chose to go into rebuild mode instead of building on what we had (rebuilding both in terms of leadership and offensive system, for instance I think it was apparent by end of '08 Williams was a leader as much as Gibbs and I specifically remember several players speaking to that during and after the search for a new HC.) Danny didn't exactly blow up the team because Blache stepped in and retained a very effective defense; however in terms of team leadership and the entire offense it seems obvious we're in rebuild mode once again.

While speculation is cheap my best intuition is that w/ Williams as HC and Saunders most likely in control of the offense we'd be better than 8-8 and maybe much better as Saunders offense always yields bigger dividends over time. Oh well, I wholeheartedly want Zorn to have tremendous success now that he's here. [B] In fact I think his success is critical because, just guessing again here, I highly highly doubt another high quality, high character HC will work for Dan Snyder for a very long time. [/B] It's Vinny, it's the way Danny handled the Spags circumstance, and not least how Danny handled the situation w/ Williams who regardless of what some rather bitter Skins fans might say is extremely well respected in the NFL, altogether I just don't see anyone great working for Snyder.[/quote]

You bring up a good point. While Snyder is not as bad as someone like Al Davis, Snyder does turn off people like Davis.
There is another thread about Gruden getting fired. On it folks speculated and also joked about Gruden going back to the Raiders. Then they go and describe a situation where top coaches will not want to coach the Raiders as long as Davis is there.
Sndyer and the Redskins do need to be careful. While the Redskins are not as bad a situation as the Raiders, there certainly was not a line of top coaches at Snyder's door wanting in.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;521208]And I guess since all the teams that have hired a coach so far passed on him, maybe we made the right choice in hiring Zorn? I think so.[/quote]

I am glad you are happy with 8-8. I am not.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=Defensewins;521210]I am glad you are happy with 8-8. I am not.[/quote]

Well a lot of rookies have losing seasons (i.e. Cam Cameron's 1-15), so while I'm not happy with 8-8, I'm glad we didn't do worst.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=Ruhskins;521212]Well a lot of rookies have losing seasons (i.e. Cam Cameron's 1-15), so while I'm not happy with 8-8, I'm glad we didn't do worst.[/quote]

There were two Rookie coaches (Atlanta & Miami) that made the playoffs.
I like Zorn, but the jury is still out on this coaching staff. They took a playoff team and regressed. I thought at the time that Williams and Saunders should been given at least a chance to see what they can do. We took an even bigger chance on Zorn who was not even a Offensive coordinator.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=Defensewins;521213]There were two Rookie coaches (Atlanta & Miami) that made the playoffs.
I like Zorn, but the jury is still out on this coaching staff. They took a playoff team and regressed. I thought at the time that Williams and Saunders should been given at least a chance to see what they can do. We took an even bigger chance on Zorn who was not even a Offensive coordinator.[/quote]

I think you think a bit too much of our playoff appearances, especially since last year we backed into the playoffs with a 9-7 record.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;521208]And I guess since all the teams that have hired a coach so far passed on him, maybe we made the right choice in hiring Zorn? I think so.[/quote]

Good point... possible Williams just isn't HC material.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=Defensewins;521213]There were two Rookie coaches (Atlanta & Miami) that made the playoffs.
I like Zorn, but the jury is still out on this coaching staff. They took a playoff team and regressed. I thought at the time that Williams and Saunders should been given at least a chance to see what they can do. We took an even bigger chance on Zorn who was not even a Offensive coordinator.[/quote]I am also not happy with 8-8, but it's not like they were handed a team that would have been able to make the playoffs in an improved NFC this year. 8 wins this year is more impressive than 9 last year.

I would not be happy with another 8-8 team next year, as we should be able to improve, particularly on the offensive end. I expect at least a winning record next year, but 8-8 was fine for a team that made no significant improvements in the offseason.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=Defensewins;521210]I am glad you are happy with 8-8. I am not.[/quote]

We could have been 4-12 like the Jags.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

8-8 is a good start for a rookie HC and a team with little depth. I think Zorn did pretty good with what he had left towards the end of the season. It's almost like people want to hate him before he even gets a chance to install his system (coaches, players, playcall, ect...) I don't get it. One one hand we say he shouldn't be HC with no HC experience. And then we compare him to rookie coaches in Atlanta and Miami???

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=The Goat;521216]Good point..[B]. possible Williams just isn't HC material[/B].[/quote]

Williams was 17-31 in 3 seasons in Buffalo. He was fired after going 6-10 in his 3rd year. Zorn goes 8-8 his first year and people want to talk about what a good headcoach Williams would have been for us. As far as Zorn inheriting a playoff team, as Ruhskins said, we backed into the playoffs last year at 9-7. Williams is a good DC just like Norv is a good OC. That doesn't make you a good headcoach. This BS about Zorn inheriting a playoff team is really getting old and as good as Williams was as DC, he was also an unbearable ass at times. I guess it's easier to say we shoulda done this or that before giving things a chance to play out instead of just supporting who we have. Would anybody be happy with 6-10 in Zorns 3rd year? If you can't do any better than that after 3 years....see ya. I'd say give Zorn 3 years like Williams had before declaring Williams a better HC.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

[quote=53Fan;521231]Williams was 17-31 in 3 seasons in Buffalo. He was fired after going 6-10 in his 3rd year. Zorn goes 8-8 his first year and people want to talk about what a good headcoach Williams would have been for us. As far as Zorn inheriting a playoff team, as Ruhskins said, we backed into the playoffs last year at 9-7. Williams is a good DC just like Norv is a good OC. That doesn't make you a good headcoach. This BS about Zorn inheriting a playoff team is really getting old and as good as Williams was as DC, he was also an unbearable ass at times. I guess it's easier to say we shoulda done this or that before giving things a chance to play out instead of just supporting who we have.[/quote]

Zorn was hired to be the offensive coordinator of a team that had an average offense last year. With the same players, he managed to score less points that the 0-16 Detroit Lions. Record aside, he failed miserably on his side of the ball. Hopefully, he will do better next year.

Re: Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job
 

I am not hating Zorn. I hope Zorn becomes the next great coach.
I was responding to previous posts on this thread that theorized that because other teams passed on GW, that some how that means we made the right call in hiring Zorn.
I was saying the jury is still out on this staff and it is much too soon to say we made the "right call in hiring Zorn." While also defending GW.

While the record were somewhat similar from Gibbs 2007 to Zorn's 2008 seasons, the teams finished the seasons in completely different ways.
Gibbs won his final 5 games including big wins in a 22-10 week 15 win at Giants and a 27-6 blow out of the Cowboys in the final week of the season that got us in the playoffs.
Zorn's 2008 Redskins came out strong to an ealy 6-2 record in September in October, they went a dismal 2-6 in November and Decmber, when it matters most.
While Zorn's 8-8 record is very respectable for a rookie NFL coach, the Redskins looked pitifully bad in their week 15 loss to the Bengals and week 17 loss to the 49ers. Reminded me of the old Spurrier days. That is what I mean by the team regressed.