Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;522741]Let me offer a couple of POSITIVE suggestions for how the Skins might get more draft picks for 2009:

1. Don't trade up on draft day; trade down if you do any trading at all.

2. If any other team gives an offer sheet to a restricted free agent, take the draft picks and let the RFA go.

3. [B]If you get any compensatory picks in the draft, don't waste them in trading scenarios.[/B]

4. If any team approaches the Skins wanting to trade for just about any player on the roster, listen carefully and try to get as many draft picks as possible in the deal. There shouldn't be more than a half-dozen "untouchable" players on the team [I][Remember, they missed the playoffs after all so the roster isn't exactly overloaded with top-shelf talent.][/I]

5. [B]MOST IMPORTANTLY:[/B] When considering trades where you get picks for players given the needs of the team in 2009, it is BETTER to get two second round picks than one first round pick. It might even be better to get a second and a third than a single first round pick.


All of this advice works ON THE ASSUMPTION that the scouts have done their job well and the people who have designed the draft board have done their job well AND the "football novices" in the organization are busy off doing other chores. :bdh:[/quote]

I believe compensatory picks cannot be traded. Other than that I agree with your points. I do think the the only "untouchable" players would be those who would have big cap implications if we were to trade them.

I was curious to know do we have any RFAs? I think someone mentioned Golston. Anyone else?

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;522763]I actually agree with you DIRTBAG. I want to sit at #13 as well and take Oher. He will be a starter for 12 years. Then I think the center position should be addressed in round 3. and DL in round 5. But what about a place kicker. [B]Do we go out and get one in free agency or do you draft the best avail. Place kickers are always over looked and are boy Suisham isn't cutting it[/B].[/quote]

We had a kid with a big league leg at the HS I teach at. He is down at South Carolina now and red shirted this season. From what his dad was telling me at game this year, the kicking coach told him there are hundreds of guys with legs who could kick in the NFL, but only about 50 have the head for it. Based on that, I would rather bring in a bunch of guys and assess them than waste a draft pick on one.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=The Goat;522708]More picks seem a luxury at this point. We need a franchise tackle to solidify the other side of the line (opposite Samuels) and we're more likely, maybe far more likely, to get that @ 13 than bottom of the first or into the second round. What we did last year seemed ok and of course we have to wait and see how our top three picks develop, but trading away your 1st round talent opportunity year after year is a recipe for longterm mediocrity IMHO. It can't just be about grabbing more youth... top talent is necessary to be a great team.[/quote]
I personally am glad to hear Vinny talk this way. Everything begins with a thought, so at least he's starting to think right. I just hope he doesn't go from one extreme to another. As Goat and SmootSmack pointed out, a group of young mediocre players makes for a young mediocre team. I think he's on the right track and maybe the voice of the fan has been heard.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

I looked at the stats the one guy showed for drafts in each yr and noticed that we kept 3 players from 2007 and 4 from 2008 class. All the other yrs we kept maybe 1 or 2 players. So my two major concerns with the team are maybe not so much Vinny(although he does help decide if we should hire them) as it is ...player evaluation, and player develpement. If Vinny is the culprit then why do we have like 4-5 people hired to evaluate players and still can't get decent talent from the draft to as Vinny put it "stock pile" young guys.

My second concern about player development maybe more in line of the coach's. I'll agree Gibbs new his time was limited and needed to have the win now mentality and true with Zorn we really can take our time but with out decent coaching we will not have player development. Maybe Buges can turn his situation around considering he had a family issue last yr but I can't help but voice my displeasure with Hixon. Look at all the WR's brought in and he could not develope one? and if they are all garbage then fire the player evaluaters cause they suck also. It's either the coach for not developing them or the evaluaters for not evaluating talent. pick your poison.

I'm not riding Vinny's jock just really wondering if the Vinny and Snyder are really listening to the player evaluaters and picking according to what they say or is it Vinny/Snyder completely ignore their ideas and pick off the wall. If we are going to say Vinny must go can we throw out the evaluaters also since they seem to suck.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Man our scouts are trash, otherwise we wouldn't have all these young guys that aren't doin' nothing (talkin' about 2007 draft and earlier).

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=SBXVII;522789]I looked at the stats the one guy showed for drafts in each yr and noticed that we kept 3 players from 2007 and 4 from 2008 class. All the other yrs we kept maybe 1 or 2 players. So my two major concerns with the team are maybe not so much Vinny(although he does help decide if we should hire them) as it is ...player evaluation, and player develpement. If Vinny is the culprit then why do we have like 4-5 people hired to evaluate players and still can't get decent talent from the draft to as Vinny put it "stock pile" young guys.

My second concern about player development maybe more in line of the coach's. I'll agree Gibbs new his time was limited and needed to have the win now mentality and true with Zorn we really can take our time but with out decent coaching we will not have player development. Maybe Buges can turn his situation around considering he had a family issue last yr [B]but I can't help but voice my displeasure with Hixon.[/B] Look at all the WR's brought in and he could not develope one? and if they are all garbage then fire the player evaluaters cause they suck also. It's either the coach for not developing them or the evaluaters for not evaluating talent. pick your poison.

I'm not riding Vinny's jock just really wondering if the Vinny and Snyder are really listening to the player evaluaters and picking according to what they say or is it Vinny/Snyder completely ignore their ideas and pick off the wall. If we are going to say Vinny must go can we throw out the evaluaters also since they seem to suck.[/quote]

This guy is more and more of a mystery. From the team website it looks as though he never worked in pro ball prior to his arrival @ Redskins Park. He came from LSU (I wonder what the connection was to us) and before that GA Tech. I just don't understand. With a track record as weak as his, with his only real success being in college ball, why is he retained year after year. NOT ONE RECEIVER DEVELOPED IN 5 SEASONS WITH US.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

I have a question for all the Vinny bashers out there. Personal feelings aside, do you believe it is possible for a person to grow into his or her role at that level, i.e. learn from experience and past mistakes? The league is rife with examples of successes who began miserably. Off the top of my head I can think of a handful of so-called "great" HC's who flamed out dramatically in their first stints as such.

It's said that the only true road to success is through failure. I'd like to think Cerrato is on that path; not every NFL exec can be as big a hit as Bill Polian -- usually they have some serious growing pains to undergo before they "get it."

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=BigRedskinDaddy;522802]I have a question for all the Vinny bashers out there. Personal feelings aside, do you believe it is possible for a person to grow into his or her role at that level, i.e. learn from experience and past mistakes? The league is rife with examples of successes who began miserably. Off the top of my head I can think of a handful of so-called "great" HC's who flamed out dramatically in their first stints as such.

It's said that the only true road to success is through failure. I'd like to think Cerrato is on that path; not every NFL exec can be as big a hit as Bill Polian -- usually they have some serious growing pains to undergo before they "get it."[/quote]

I think that is true in most aspects in life as long as you are willing to learn from your mistakes and make the nessesary adjustments/changes to succeed

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=BigRedskinDaddy;522802]I have a question for all the Vinny bashers out there. Personal feelings aside, do you believe it is possible for a person to grow into his or her role at that level, i.e. learn from experience and past mistakes? [B]The league is rife with examples of successes who began miserably. Off the top of my head I can think of a handful of so-called "great" HC's who flamed out dramatically in their first stints as such.[/B]

It's said that the only true road to success is through failure. I'd like to think Cerrato is on that path; not every NFL exec can be as big a hit as Bill Polian -- usually they have some serious growing pains to undergo before they "get it."[/quote]

I def don't have the expertise to answer. Just two thoughts though... not sure the HC comparison works. VC's real duty as I understand it is to get the very best talent into Redskins Park whereas the HC organizes, motivates and fosters that talent into results. Different skill set IMO and while the HC works w/ those players, builds rapport and basically turns experiences into knowledge, the talent gatherer has to evaluate a laundry list characteristics and various intangibles that separate players from eachother. I'm totally theorizing here but it seems a successful talent evaluator would've been around ball players for a long time and have a shit ton of experience to be really good at what they do.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

I get the feeling that pick 13 is going to come around and there will be someone highly hyped available. Maybe Raji, maybe Jason Smith.

The Lions have pick #1, #20, and #33, and having gotten a stud at #1 I think they could offer #20 and #33 for the #13.

A draft featuring Andre Smith and BJ Raji would probably result in a parade in Detroit and may be too good to pass up.

Other teams with the picks that might be able to swing a deal for the #13 (excluding hated NYG and PHI):

Miami: #25, #45, #57
NE: #23, #48, #55

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;522763]I actually agree with you DIRTBAG. I want to sit at #13 as well and take Oher. He will be a starter for 12 years. Then I think the center position should be addressed in round 3. and DL in round 5. But what about a place kicker. Do we go out and get one in free agency or do you draft the best avail. Place kickers are always over looked and are boy Suisham isn't cutting it.[/quote]

I think we keep pick 13. As far as a kicker is concerned Sushi isn't that bad. Well, ya he is but he has shown some promise. I would hate to trade down just for the sake of getting more pics if we can get 1 game changer at 13.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Yes Vinny can learn to be good at what he does.....whatever it is. I'm not knocking him I just am really wondering how much evaluating he does or how much of listening to the paid evaluaters he does. I would assume the team looks at needs and has the evaluaters go out and find what the need is. Evaluate the talent and report back as their findings. Then when draft day rolls around does Vinny say screw the needed pick lets go with BAP(best available player) or is he following a script the evaluaters have as what they feel is BAP for team need?

I would say I don't have a problem with our last 3 drafts. We have kept more players then we have let go I believe. Previous to that though we would only keep 1 or 2 players from a draft. Perhaps it's part of the coaching also. Maybe Zorn came in and said we need to get younger like the Patriots. Start pulling from the draft instead of picking up old has beens. In any case it would seem he's learning a lesson.

You won't hear me bash Vinny too much only because I'm not exactly sure what his job is. We have evaluaters making money. I'm not sure how long they all have been with the Skins though.

People are bashing Vinny now for not wanting to take a person at #13. I for one believe all the first round talent is a crap shoot. It has been proven that 1st round talent is 50/50. Most of the talent comes from the 2nd to 4th rounds were the talent equals what you pay for. Also I really like Buges and I think he is the best trainer out there who can take a no name and turn him into something special but he is a "man to man" blocking coach. I can remember in Gibbs1 Buges would get all upset after a Bronco game saying that the whole Zone blocking and Cut blocking schemes were crap and caused injuries to the opponents too much and he wouldn't use that type of blocking. Having said that ...it would seem the Bronco's zone/cut blocking scheme's work well, even Portis got lots of yards using it. So my other question is ...are we better off changing to a zone/cut blocking for the WCO? and if so then perhaps Buges needs to be let go.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Vinny is sending out a signal that he'll trade down. Great idea, although there's nothing wrong with picking at #13 if you can get a strong starter in the right position.

I'm for giving Vinny the benefit of the doubt for this season. However, I also don't think in this NFL that you can give coaches or players an unlimited amount of time either.

If Vinny can draft for the OL or DL then I will be happy. However, his idea to pick flash position, like WR, or BPA, or picking players with known injury problems shakes any confidence. Maybe he'll grow into the position but he certainly hasn't started out very well.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

I hope he does what he says however I would like to see Moss stay a Skin.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=gully;522811]I get the feeling that pick 13 is going to come around and there will be someone highly hyped available. Maybe Raji, maybe Jason Smith.

The Lions have pick #1, #20, and #33, and having gotten a stud at #1 I think they could offer #20 and #33 for the #13.

A draft featuring Andre Smith and BJ Raji would probably result in a parade in Detroit and may be too good to pass up.

Other teams with the picks that might be able to swing a deal for the #13 (excluding hated NYG and PHI):

Miami: #25, #45, #57
NE: #23, #48, #55[/quote]

Pulling a 20 and a 33 would not be bad at all.. I dunno if they'd give that much up or not, but that'd be a deal that I'd be fine with biting on, unless our board didn't show us getting anything solid around there

I think that you really just have to see what's still there at 13