Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

Here's my hope for our WRs and ARE. Take him off punts so he can be fresher for playing WR. Less bumps and bruises, less mileage. Then I hope that either Thomas or Kelly can take a starting job and bump ARE into the slot as the #3 where he should be and can be most effective. Then use him more on gadget plays (wildcat, options, etc) where he excels.

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=Mattyk72;526870]Here's my hope for our WRs and ARE. Take him off punts so he can be fresher for playing WR. Less bumps and bruises, less mileage.[B] Then I hope that either Thomas or Kelly can take a starting job and bump ARE into the slot as the #3 where he should be and can be most effective[/B]. Then use him more on gadget plays (wildcat, options, etc) where he excels.[/quote]

I think that's why we got him to begin with. I think he'd be good in the slot. We've had to use him at #2 because no one else could take that spot so he's had to play out of position. If Kelly can perform this year the way we hoped he would when we drafted him, it sure would cure a lot of ills.

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;526854]Oh please I hope not. I simply don't understand this team's obsession with ARE. Unless you use him like he is supposed to be sued, as a third WR, other than that, he sucks.[/quote]The obsession is that Randle El does his job (complementary receiver) better than any receiver on the team does their own job, including Moss.

And the problem of course, is that Randle El is not capable of running all the routes, because his effectiveness pretty much ends at 20 yards. So they can't just move Moss unless they think one of the young guys can handle the go-to receiver role.

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

I think the expectation when we drafted him was that Devin Thomas should be our #1 receiver, moving Moss to #2 and ARE to #3. If Moss is traded at some point, Kelly would be our #2. One way or another, i dont think ARE starts this year as our #2 receiver.

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=Mattyk72;526870]Here's my hope for our WRs and ARE. Take him off punts so he can be fresher for playing WR. Less bumps and bruises, less mileage. Then I hope that either Thomas or Kelly can take a starting job and bump ARE into the slot as the #3 where he should be and can be most effective. Then use him more on gadget plays (wildcat, options, etc) where he excels.[/quote]


I second this motion.... All in favor say I...

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=GTripp0012;526892]The obsession is that Randle El does his job (complementary receiver) better than any receiver on the team does their own job, including Moss.

And the problem of course, is that Randle El is not capable of running all the routes, because his effectiveness pretty much ends at 20 yards. So they can't just move Moss unless they think one of the young guys can handle the go-to receiver role.[/quote]

Honestly even though Moss is our best WR...he doesn't exactly fill that go to role either. We don't have that player. Moss dissapears for weeks at a time. Moss is a good player but not good enough or consistent enough to be an effective #1 WR. I would move him if a reasonable trade offer was there. That would force one of these young WR's to sink or swim as the #1 WR and see what happens. With Moss & El back on this team next year those young guys are going to get minimal opportunities and probably not progress that much.

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=celts32;526922]Honestly even though Moss is our best WR...he doesn't exactly fill that go to role either. We don't have that player. Moss dissapears for weeks at a time. Moss is a good player but not good enough or consistent enough to be an effective #1 WR. I would move him if a reasonable trade offer was there. That would force one of these young WR's to sink or swim as the #1 WR and see what happens. [B]With Moss & El back on this team next year those young guys are going to get minimal opportunities and probably not progress that much.[/B][/quote]

I wouldn't assume so much... if the young guys have learned their routes and can be effective on offense I firmly believe they'll split time w/ Moss/ARL... the much bigger concern is not Zorn's willingness to include them but Hixon's seeming inability to develop WRs at the professional level. I hope very much he proves me wrong...

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

I still don't get the hating on Hixon. Prior to Thomas and Kelly what other young, quality WRs has he been given to work with and develop??

You've gotta blame Thomas for most of his struggles, and Kelly had injury issues.

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=Mattyk72;526946]I still don't get the hating on Hixon. Prior to Thomas and Kelly what other young, quality WRs has he been given to work with and develop??

You've gotta blame Thomas for most of his struggles, and Kelly had injury issues.[/quote]

I think it's the Anthony Mix factor. Why can UFAs like Stephon Heyer and Lorenzo Alexander make an impact, but not Mix, Toler, Mann, etc.

I also think the scenarios are far different.

Plus I think that while Hixon isn't the best option, we have much more pressing issues.

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=Mattyk72;526946]I still don't get the hating on Hixon. Prior to Thomas and Kelly what other young, quality WRs has he been given to work with and develop??

You've gotta blame Thomas for most of his struggles, and Kelly had injury issues.[/quote]

SBXV11 did a good list of WR's that have been through Hixon's training here:
[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27618-our-wrs-in-2009-my-thoughts-11.html#post523516"]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27618-our-wrs-in-2009-my-thoughts-11.html#post523516[/URL]

I think my point is with the number of receivers that have been through, and the problems we continue to have, Hixon has done nothing to merit staying. Maybe he hasn't done so bad as to be fired, but certainly when his contract is up we should look for a replacement.

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;526954]SBXV11 did a good list of WR's that have been through Hixon's training here:
[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27618-our-wrs-in-2009-my-thoughts-11.html#post523516[/URL]

I think my point is with the number of receivers that have been through, and the problems we continue to have, Hixon has done nothing to merit staying. Maybe he hasn't done so bad as to be fired, but certainly when his contract is up we should look for a replacement.[/quote]

But it's not like these guys have gone on to do anything anywhere else. I mean seriously that list is littered with scrubs.

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=Mattyk72;526964]But it's not like these guys have gone on to do anything anywhere else. I mean seriously that list is littered with scrubs.[/quote]
That's true, but, I believe that he has not done anything that says, "Wow, what a great job" either. Some of our position coaches are the best in the league, ie Jerry Gray, and it seems like there ought to be an opportunity to upgrade there.
Plus it makes for a good sacrificial lamb for all the mental errors through the season. ;)

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;526979]That's true, but, I believe that he has not done anything that says, "Wow, what a great job" either. Some of our position coaches are the best in the league, ie Jerry Gray, and it seems like there ought to be an opportunity to upgrade there.
Plus it makes for a good sacrificial lamb for all the mental errors through the season. ;)[/quote]

Can we really say he's had a lot to work with though??

I say we need to give him another year to see how Thomas and Kelly pan out.

And what about the success that Moss has had? Does he get no credit at all for that?

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=Mattyk72;526983]Can we really say he's had a lot to work with though??[/quote]
well, i think he has had some input probably, and i think all the HC/OC's tried to bring in playmakers

[quote]I say we need to give him another year to see how Thomas and Kelly pan out.[/quote]
SOMEONE HAS TO PAY!! ;)
Seriously, I think we keep wanting to give everyone one more year and mostly I agree, but none of the WR's showed much in the way of good coaching, I think what we see on the field is the raw ability mostly. I really don't know, but it seems like we should have seen some "thing" over 5 years that either said yes keep him, or else it is time to move on. He is not a qb in new systems, he is a pro WR receiver coach with 5 yrs experience. If this is good as he gets, we can do better. (maybe worse, but that's hard to see)

[quote]And what about the success that Moss has had? Does he get no credit at all for that?[/quote]
I would say that is almost all Moss' natural talent, plus coaching he had when he got here, I've never heard Moss or any WR credit Hixon, so maybe that sways me too. I won't knock him hard for not developing any of the others, so I won't give him a lot of credit for a naturally talented WR.

For me two things are paramount:
1) In 5 years he has not visibly improved one prospect (Kelly/Thomas are still pending)

2) This is not a "essential personnel move" like JC, or Zorn, where another year could make or break them. Instead, this is a position where an improvement now could pay huge dividends in training Kelly and Thomas to be #1 receivers. The flip side is if it [U]is[/U] Hixon, and he wastes another year here, we could potentially scrap Kelly and Thomas' careers.

Re: New contracts for Andre Carter and Randle El
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;526990]well, i think he has had some input probably, and i think all the HC/OC's tried to bring in playmakers


SOMEONE HAS TO PAY!! ;)
Seriously, I think we keep wanting to give everyone one more year and mostly I agree, but none of the WR's showed much in the way of good coaching, I think what we see on the field is the raw ability mostly. I really don't know, but it seems like we should have seen some "thing" over 5 years that either said yes keep him, or else it is time to move on. He is not a qb in new systems, he is a pro WR receiver coach with 5 yrs experience. If this is good as he gets, we can do better. (maybe worse, but that's hard to see)


I would say that is almost all Moss' natural talent, plus coaching he had when he got here, I've never heard Moss or any WR credit Hixon, so maybe that sways me too. I won't knock him hard for not developing any of the others, so I won't give him a lot of credit for a naturally talented WR.

For me two things are paramount:
1) In 5 years he has not visibly improved one prospect (Kelly/Thomas are still pending)

2) This is not a "essential personnel move" like JC, or Zorn, where another year could make or break them. Instead, this is a position where an improvement now could pay huge dividends in training Kelly and Thomas to be #1 receivers. The flip side is if it [U]is[/U] Hixon, and he wastes another year here, we could potentially scrap Kelly and [B]Hixon's[/B] careers.[/quote]

Think you meant Thomas' careers and yeah that is one of my biggest concerns as well.