Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

[quote=Ruhskins;563558]I love how Campbell haters have to turn everything into an attack on him. :doh:[/quote]

I agree, that's been played out. Funny how they ignore the fact that they were 6-2 to start the season because the O-line was opening holes for the running game and gave him decent pass protection (notice I said DECENT). Very few, if any, QBs succeed in this league without a good/great offensive line. Just look at the Redskins glory years...3 Superbowls with 3 QBs, 3 different RB combinations but the SAME offensive line. Coincidence? I think not. Don't blame Campbell, he's played in a different offense every year so far. Every Campbell hater will be eating a huge sh*! burger next year and I'll be happy to serve them. LOL.

I apologize, I got off subject on this thread. My man-love for Jason Campbell just keeps shining through!

HAIL!

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

[quote=53Fan;563655]Winning cures all doesn't it? If the team he plays for wasn't as good as it is, heck, if their defense wasn't as good as it is, I'm sure he would hear some of the same questions Campbell hears.[/quote]I would say that to an extent, Steelers fans are more willing to give the benefit of the doubt to their own players than Redskins fans are. I would say, if Campbell's career mirrored Roethlisberger's we'd be just as high on him as the Steelers are on Big Ben, even though, there's not a huge difference between the two.

If Campbell had won two super bowls in the last four years doing not a damn thing different than he has done so, he'd be a "playmaker" too. He'd also still have a long way to develop.

And for Steelers' fans sake, I hope/expect that Ben's going to improve in the future. I don't know how many more years he can plan on having the best defense in football. :)

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

The Redskins FO should stand pat with the young group of WR we have. They will do just fine as long as we give JC time to get them the ball our wideouts will be tough. We have quick WR and big strong WR in Kelly and Thomas. They all have something different to bring to the offense. Remember this is their 2nd full season in the West Coast offense give them time. HTTR.
We don't need no Brandon Marshall, Plax Burress, or Chad Johnson they are big headaches.

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

[quote=skins89moss;563664]The Redskins FO should stand pat with the young group of WR we have. They will do just fine as long as we give JC time to get them the ball our wideouts will be tough. We have quick WR and big strong WR in Kelly and Thomas. They all have something different to bring to the offense. Remember this is their 2nd full season in the West Coast offense give them time. HTTR.
We don't need no Brandon Marshall, Plax Burress, or Chad Johnson they are big headaches.[/quote]Ultimately, I agree with this. The best move is no move.

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

[quote=Skins4Eva;563462]Brandon Marshall wants out of Denver. This is some kind of pipe dream buy could you imagine him as the Number 1 Reciever with Moss at the two and Randel El I the slot?!! The price is reportedly a first and a third in 2010. Would you guys make that trade?[/quote]
This question seems crazy. Why would you? I realize we don't have a top flight receiver but we got other needs across the board. Plus doesn't he come with alot of drama?

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

Well, a 1st and 3rd is CRAZY.

BUT, I'd love to have a real #1 WR. He's 6'4" and a beast. I'd agree with giving them Moss and a 3rd or even 2nd draft pick, maybe throw in a prospect like Kelly or M.Mitchell. Marshall is only 25 and could really help out JC. His off field issues are a concern, but I'm hopeful.. Heck, we paid $100 mil for AH and he's got a ton of off-field issues some of which are still pending..

The other guys are OLD. P.Burress will be 32yo, Chad Johnson is 31yo. Not worth it.

All this being said, Denver would NEVER trade him. He's under contract, and he's an incredible weapon. They got rid of Jay Cutler because he was a whiner and the McDaniels didn't like him in his system. You can always use a good WR in any system.

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

he won't be traded... I'd take Plax first atleast wee could give him a 1 year deal.

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

Stay put with what we have do not i repeat do not give up any draft picks our WR will be better just give JC more time come on OL.

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

[quote=GTripp0012;563479]Marshall is no where near good enough for a first and third. I mean, no one here would give a first and third for Boldin, and he seems like a much, much better complement to Santana Moss than Marshall.

We do have a need at WR, so I'd offer as much as a third and a fifth, or a third and Devin Thomas for him, but again, he's more valuable to Denver than he is to us.

Perhaps i'd do something like a second for Marshall and a fourth, but again, Denver's incentive to sell him off for that low is basically nil.[/quote]

Give them like 2-3 consecutive 2nd rounders for Marshall. 2nd rounders usually make the team and become starters. I think that would be fair for Marshall. If not give them one 1st rounder. I don't see why they wouldn't go for 3 2nd round picks.

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;563857]Give them like 2-3 consecutive 2nd rounders for Marshall. 2nd rounders usually make the team and become starters. I think that would be fair for Marshall. If not give them one 1st rounder. I don't see why they wouldn't go for 3 2nd round picks.[/quote]I think, receivers like Brandon Marshall can be found in the late first round or the second round of any draft (possible exception: 2008 Draft :( ). So, no, you probably wouldn't toss multiple high picks at him.

The benefit of Marshall is that, he's already mostly through with his development, so by bringing him in now, you would get instant production. But like instant coffee, you're getting less in terms of quality than the price tag would make you think.

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

Drafting WR is like gambling in Vegas, except MUCH worse odds. Just ask the Lions - or ask US (Rod Gardner, Mike Westbrook). We wasted TWO 1st rounders. I think getting good and *young* talent by free agency makes sense if you only have a 50% chance of drafting a gem. Santana Moss was a prime example, and I think most ppl like that trade.

Here's a great article about the bust-rate of draft picks:

[quote]First-Round Bust Percentages
QB -- 53 percent
RB -- 49 percent
WR -- 45 percent
DT -- 33 percent
OL -- 31 percent
DE -- 31 percent
CB -- 29 percent
LB -- 16 percent
S -- 11 percent

sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=kluck/wrapup/070425&sportCat=nfl

Crunching the Numbers: First-Round WRs, 1989-2003
Number of WRs drafted: 51
Notable busts: J.J. Stokes, Ike Hilliard, Reidel Anthony, R. Jay Soward, Marcus Nash, David Terrell, Charles Rogers
Number of busts: 23
Bust percentage: 45 percent
Number of wideouts with at least one Pro Bowl appearance: 16
Pro Bowl percentage: 31 percent
Teams with multiple busts: Broncos, Redskins

sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=kluck/receivers/070425[/quote]

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

So by the numbers above, you'd be wasting a potential $30 million guaranteed money on a QB, RB or WR who only has a 50 PERCENT chance of making it in the NFL. Makes someone proven like Marshall seem worth it.

Signing a YOUNG vet like Haynesworth to $40 mil guaranteed, Hall to $20 mil guaranteed -- I think these make more sense for young proven stars. I don't disagree with the front office with this strategy. It's more expensive, but maybe more worth it. It seems like the draft is a better deal for low round picks if you can pick a gem like Horton.

[quote]"The bottom five will surprise fans most. The worst drafting team in the past three years, holding on to only a little more than half of its drafted players: the [B]New England Patriots[/B]. With three Super Bowl wins since 2001, the Patriots are the team of the decade so far. They boast a 39-9 record in the past three years. How have they maintained that excellence? Though saddled with low draft picks, the Patriots have been the masters of picking up useful veterans via trades to fill holes in their lineup (see: receivers Randy Moss and Wes Welker).

Third worst is another surprise: the world champion Pittsburgh Steelers, with only 58% of their drafted players still on the team and no All-Pros among them. Like the Patriots, the perennially contending Steelers usually have a low draft spot, but they have fulfilled their needs by finding and developing excellent undrafted rookies over the years, like running back Willie Parker and linebacker James Harrison, the 2008 defensive player of the year.

The bottom line: Drafting NFL-caliber players is very important, but it doesn't necessarily equal success on the field. Finding other strategies to plug the gaps, like the Patriots and Steelers have done, is essential. So don't judge your team's success at the end of draft day. Wait to see how it all plays out--and watch for what your team does to boost draft deficiencies."

forbes.com/2009/04/08/nfl-draft-teams-lifestyle-sports-nfl-draft.html
[/quote]

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;563849]he won't be traded... I'd take Plax first atleast wee could give him a 1 year deal.[/quote]

Why bring in all the drama with Burress? He was a problem after the Giants won the Super Bowl. He was late to meetings and got fined by the Giants. Later on as we know he shot himself in the leg at the night club. HE IS NOT A ROOKIE. Burress has been in the league for at least 8 yrs and still cant figure it out yet. This guy won't change his ways cause he has been given special treatment since he could play football. Lets stay away from this type of player cause he can't be counted on. Oh yea he might be doing some prison time. I rather lose with our WR than have this fool on our team.

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

[quote=ethat001;563875]So by the numbers above, you'd be wasting a potential $30 million guaranteed money on a QB, RB or WR who only has a 50 PERCENT chance of making it in the NFL. Makes someone proven like Marshall seem worth it.

Signing a YOUNG vet like Haynesworth to $40 mil guaranteed, Hall to $20 mil guaranteed -- I think these make more sense for young proven stars. I don't disagree with the front office with this strategy. It's more expensive, but maybe more worth it. It seems like the draft is a better deal for low round picks if you can pick a gem like Horton.[/quote]Well, $30 million isn't exactly the average amount of guaranteed money for a first round player. It's like, the average of the top three picks. But the bust rate in the top three is, obviously, significantly lower than in the rest of the round.

I've also found, in the past, that the way you need to define a bust to make the overall rate 50%+, seems to be more heavily based on expectations than actual results. The true bust rate in the first round seems to be closer to 20% over the last five years or so, (5-6 players per round), although, admittedly much higher at the WR position. I'm just not of the mind that a 1st round pick that produces at a 3rd round level [like Robert Gallery] for 7-8 seasons deserves the same tag as a guy who is out of the league [pick your favorite Mike Williams] in two seasons.

And then of course, the study does label guys like Koren Robinson and Peter Warrick busts, though they do meet the non-bust criteria. Still, a 40% bust rate on WRs means you do always risk drafting a non-player in the draft.

Still, unless 100 receptions is a magical, automatic sort of figure, I'd say that a guy like Marshall could still find himself on the wrong side of that 45%. Not that it's likely that a guy with consecutive 100 reception seasons can't hold his own, but nothing he's done would make it a certainty that he's going to stay near the top of the league in receiving.

The draft is an excellent value from picks 9 and on. For teams picking in the top 8...you just have to do your homework and make sure you draft a contributor. The bust rate is pretty low in the top 8 picks, and the signing bonuses are obscenely high, and this combination makes it crippling for teams to draft a bust in the top quarter of the first round. Not that I'm suggesting anything that isn't already obvious.

Re: Brandon Marshall anyone
 

Here's all the wide receivers drafted within the top three picks in the last 20 years:

1. Keyshawn Johnson
2. Charles Rogers
3. Andre Johnson
4. Larry Fitzgerald
5. Braylon Edwards
6. Calvin Johnson

11 pro bowls between these guys, with only one bust. I'd say the conversion rate on elite-level college wide receivers has been pretty good. After the first three picks though, those 30 million signing bonuses, then busts mix in pretty evenly with successful players.