Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=The Goat;980650]So if QB keeps aren't central to the pistol's effectiveness and it provides an insurmountable advantage for the offense, we should absolutely see P Manning and Brady run it next season, yes?[/quote]

Of course not. That would stupid. Teams are built differently and thus NFL teams will always run what works best for each individual team.
Who ever said the Pistol offense provides an "insurmountable advantage"?
Are you making shit up again?

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=The Goat;980650]So if QB keeps aren't central to the pistol's effectiveness and it provides an insurmountable advantage for the offense, we should absolutely see P Manning and Brady run it next season, yes?[/quote]

Big Ben operated out of the pistol almost all night a couple years ago against the Ravens when he had a busted up ankle.

The read option on the other hand is a different story.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=Mattyk;980665][B]Big Ben operated out of the pistol almost all night a couple years ago against the Ravens when he had a busted up ankle. [/B]

The read option on the other hand is a different story.[/quote]

He still uses it too right?

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=The Goat;980667]He still uses it too right?[/quote]

I haven't noticed honestly

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=The Goat;980667]He still uses it too right?[/quote]

i believe so . . . yes . . . as do a few others, but not to the extent the redskins do . . . it's simply takes the advantages of the shotgun formation and other normal like the i or the pro formations and combines them into one . . .

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=Defensewins;980657]Of course not. That would stupid. Teams are built differently and thus NFL teams will always run what works best for each individual team.
Who ever said the Pistol offense provides an "insurmountable advantage"?
Are you making shit up again?[/quote]

I'm simply asking for some substantive explanation. There's nothing you've said I hadn't already heard/read at least a dozen times.

If the pistol doesn't give the offense a tangible, reliable advantage (what I would call insurmountable), why would we use it as our base as Lotus said?

On the flip side, if it does provide that advantage why wouldn't the other super smart QBs, namely Manning and Brady, begin using it next year?

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=The Goat;980650]So if QB keeps aren't central to the pistol's effectiveness and it provides an insurmountable advantage for the offense, we should absolutely see P Manning and Brady run it next season, yes?[/quote]

I don't think successful QB's necessary will change their style that has been successful for them over the past 13 years, but I especially wouldn't be surprised to see PManning use it. With his ability to read and sway defenses even from behind center, I imagine he would be like an grand symphony conductor moving TE's and FB's in and out of a diamond or pistol formation.

Again, the shotgun was an evolution that many coaches didn't like, simply because it created a less sure passing of the ball from the center to the qb, but now I don't think there is a team in the league that doesn't use it to some extent.

I would be surprised if the pistol doesn't become at least an option in every team's playbook over the next few years

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=The Goat;980673]I'm simply asking for some substantive explanation. There's nothing you've said I hadn't already heard/read at least a dozen times.

If the pistol doesn't give the offense a tangible, reliable advantage (what I would call insurmountable), why would we use it as our base as Lotus said?

On the flip side, if it does provide that advantage why wouldn't the other super smart QBs, namely Manning and Brady, begin using it next year?[/quote]

Your whole post is really a pure BS argument. Nothing in the NFL gives an "insurmountable" offensive advantage, as they say Defense gets paid too.

As for the substantive explanation, I know the article expressed several rational points for the pistol being a sustainable effective formation for any NFL team. I know Defensewins and I put forward several as well, the fact that you don't acknowledge them makes them neither less substantive, nor less effective. The proof this year is in the stats that have our team leading the NFL in yards per attempt, and the fact that more teams are starting to use it, copycatting is a form of flattery in the NFL.

As to Lotus' point, we may use it as our base formation, specifically because our exceptionally talented qb is able to run it to a T. If he ran the shotgun perfectly, my guess is that would be our base. It's kind of a fitting the scheme to your personnel type thing.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=The Goat;980673]I'm simply asking for some substantive explanation. There's nothing you've said I hadn't already heard/read at least a dozen times.

If the pistol doesn't give the offense a tangible, reliable advantage (what I would call insurmountable), why would we use it as our base as Lotus said?

On the flip side, if it does provide that advantage why wouldn't the other super smart QBs, namely Manning and Brady, begin using it next year?[/quote]


In 1982 the Redskins (Bugel and Gibbs) took a college play the "counter-trey" and introduced it into the NFL. They ran it until defenses learned how to defeat it and it did not work anymore. It took almost ten years and we won three super bowls with it. Many teams copied it but not all teams copied used it.
I am not by any means saying the Pistol will have that kind success but you keep using something it if it works.

There is nothing in football, scheme or formation that is insurmountable or gives you an insurmountable advantage. Everything can at some point be defeated or at least neutralized by the clever NFL defenses that are prepared with the knowledge, scheme and tools to defeat it.
We are using the pistol because we are winning and playing well in it, not because it affords us an insurmountable advantage Why change (fix) something it it ain't broke.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;980681]Your whole post is really a pure BS argument. Nothing in the NFL gives an "insurmountable" offensive advantage, as they say Defense gets paid too.

As for the substantive explanation, I know the article expressed several rational points for the pistol being a sustainable effective formation for any NFL team. I know Defensewins and I put forward several as well, the fact that you don't acknowledge them makes them neither less substantive, nor less effective. The proof this year is in the stats that have our team leading the NFL in yards per attempt, and the fact that more teams are starting to use it, copycatting is a form of flattery in the NFL.

As to Lotus' point, we may use it as our base formation, specifically because our exceptionally talented qb is able to run it to a T. If he ran the shotgun perfectly, my guess is that would be our base. It's kind of a fitting the scheme to your personnel type thing.[/quote]

...and what's my argument again? Notice, apart from giving my opinion the pistol is a gimmick in my view unless it's central to a SB winning offense, I haven't made any other assessment. I've simply asked you to put the pistol in the context of pro football as opposed to the Washington Redskins. Honestly, I think you've already overreached.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=Defensewins;980683]In 1982 the Redskins (Bugel and Gibbs) took a college play the "counter-trey" and introduced it into the NFL. They ran it until defenses learned how to defeat it and it did not work anymore. It took almost ten years and we won three super bowls with it. Many teams copied it but not all teams copied used it.
I am not by any means saying the Pistol will have that kind success but you keep using something it if it works.

There is nothing in football, scheme or formation that is insurmountable or gives you an insurmountable advantage. Everything can at some point be defeated or at least neutralized by the clever NFL defenses that are prepared with the knowledge, scheme and tools to defeat it.
We are using the pistol because we are winning and playing well in it, not because it affords us an insurmountable advantage Why change (fix) something it it ain't broke.[/quote]

Best post I've read from you.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

Not that he'd join the Redskins, but maybe the Eagles, Bills, Jets or Panthers as an OC, since his offense is working right now in the NFL.


[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/29/offensive-innovator-chris-ault-leaves-nevada-could-head-to-nfl/]Offensive innovator Chris Ault leaves Nevada, could head to NFL | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

Not sure why you guys are debating with a guy who doesn't understand the difference between a formation and a play.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

Wildcat is not an offensive philosophy where you line up with it every play -- it's where you have a RB at the normal QB spot to have an extra blocker. It's more a change of personnel.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

Throwing and Running are now considered gimmicks in the NFL, not even trolling.