Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

[QUOTE=monk81]Not only were the Charges close to going to the Super Bowl last year, but they also have had a great draft this year too..........what's the old saying, "the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer"........ :( Marty got the Redskins the closest to success at 8-8 ..............[/QUOTE]


I absolutly loved their draft It was what I wanted for us, and we have to stand by and take it, oh the humanity. :frusty:

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Are you too young to remember Clint Diddier?[/QUOTE]


Clint was used more so as a WR though when he came in teams knew we were throwing and put a man on him, he wasen't a blocking TE, when Clint left that was it for the TE's no more passes.

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

Joe Gibbs did not lie. To say he did is nonsense - gross hyberbole from someone who just doesn't like the decisions that were made, and interprets comments in a narrow and supernegative, critical way to suit his purposes.

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

Welcome back to football talk Shane. :)

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

[QUOTE=offiss]JC, Let's face it, I don't beleive Casserly persay was a big mistake, we had a better talent evaluater in Marty here after Casserly was fired, and after he straightened out the mess created the year before with our fortune 5 hundred team, Marty found undrafted talent in the form of Pierce and IFFY, getting a starting CB in the second rd in Smoot, Gardner wasen't a bad pick at the time who knew he would drop pass after pass, yet Snyder fired him any way, why? Well could it possibly be Marty knows talent, and Snyder doesn't? And Danny Boy couldn't handle someone picking players that he had no clue about, rather than listening to Snyder and letting him have a say on talent? Marty refused and so doing essentially let Snyder know he doesn't know what he's talking about, and so Marty was shown the door.

Now Snyder turns over player personell to Gibbs who has a very small track record of talent evaluation, but that track record is failure in 1 Desmond Howard![/QUOTE]

Marty's GM skills were better than anything else the Skins have had since Casserly was fired, and Marty's doing a fine job out there in San Diego. My point was basically that, outside of the Marty year, this team has been like a rudderless ship since Casserly was fired. Like yourself, I put much of the blame for that on Snyder's infatuation with himself and his toady, Vinny Cerrato. To me, it's not so much a lack of talent evaluation skills as it is an ineptitude with draft management, and a propensity to overpay for the talent they want-- whether in the form of ridiculous signing bonuses or draft picks or both.

Combine that with the staff turnover of the past six years, and the inability or refusal to retain the quality talent that they're actually able to draft, and you wind up with a team that's constantly spinning its wheels, and seemingly never able to get moving forward. Or, like Dan Patrick was saying on ESPN Radio all last week, it seems like the Redskins under Dan Snyder have been a car in traffic that just keeps changing lanes, hoping to somehow outmaneuver the traffic in front of them, without realizing that if they just picked a lane and stuck with it, they'd probably reach their destination a lot faster with a lot less trouble.

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

What is all this talk that we need another WR. We are LOADED at WR. We traded for Santana Moss and David Patten, remember?

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

I wish Gardner just would have been the go-to guy all along so we wouldn't have to worry about a possession receiver.

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Clint was used more so as a WR though when he came in teams knew we were throwing and put a man on him, he wasen't a blocking TE, when Clint left that was it for the TE's no more passes.[/QUOTE]


That's also not true. Although, Donnie Warren was primarily a blocking Tight End first, he caught his fair share of passes.

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

[QUOTE=offiss]JC, Let's face it, I don't beleive Casserly persay was a big mistake, we had a better talent evaluater in Marty here after Casserly was fired, and after he straightened out the mess created the year before with our fortune 5 hundred team, Marty found undrafted talent in the form of Pierce and IFFY, getting a starting CB in the second rd in Smoot, Gardner wasen't a bad pick at the time who knew he would drop pass after pass, yet Snyder fired him any way, why? Well could it possibly be Marty knows talent, and Snyder doesn't? And Danny Boy couldn't handle someone picking players that he had no clue about, rather than listening to Snyder and letting him have a say on talent? Marty refused and so doing essentially let Snyder know he doesn't know what he's talking about, and so Marty was shown the door.

Now Snyder turns over player personell to Gibbs who has a very small track record of talent evaluation, but that track record is failure in 1 Desmond Howard![/QUOTE]
I agree that Marty did a good job with the draft, but what's done is done.

As for Gibbs track record, how many years did he coach Desmond Howard? ONE! Nobody will ever know if he would have turned into something better if Gibbs had stuck around. My point being, I'm sick of people pointing back to that. Every team has draft busts.

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]That's also not true. Although, Donnie Warren was primarily a blocking Tight End first, he caught his fair share of passes.[/QUOTE]


No he didn't, fair share compared to what? the Giants used to refuse to cover our TE because they said we never threw to them, we found that out when we signed an x-Giant who told Gibbs this before a game with them, now if a team flat out refuses to cover a TE what would you call it?

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

[QUOTE=SkinsRock]I agree that Marty did a good job with the draft, but what's done is done.

As for Gibbs track record, how many years did he coach Desmond Howard? ONE! Nobody will ever know if he would have turned into something better if Gibbs had stuck around. My point being, I'm sick of people pointing back to that. Every team has draft busts.[/QUOTE]


He did winde up with GB with Favre and couldn't muster more than being a return man for them, I would say if he had any talent at WR favre would have gotten him the ball?

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

Hey guys after Beatherd left Casserly was the GM and Gibbs did have more power. Gibbs is always straight up and to call him a lier is just flat out wrong.

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

[QUOTE=offiss]No he didn't, fair share compared to what? the Giants used to refuse to cover our TE because they said we never threw to them, we found that out when we signed an x-Giant who told Gibbs this before a game with them, now if a team flat out refuses to cover a TE what would you call it?[/QUOTE]


I think you're just trying to be argumentative for the heck of it. As I have stated, Donnie Warren was a BLOCKER first, but he caught his fair share of passes. The Giants refused to cover our TE because he was a BLOCKER first and not a threat to catch the ball, but that does not mean the ball was never thrown to him. Diddier was more of a threat as a pass receiving tight end..which proves my point that we did throw to our tight ends and saying we didn't is a naive and wrong.

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]I think you're just trying to be argumentative for the heck of it. As I have stated, Donnie Warren was a BLOCKER first, but he caught his fair share of passes. The Giants refused to cover our TE because he was a BLOCKER first and not a threat to catch the ball, but that does not mean the ball was never thrown to him. Diddier was more of a threat as a pass receiving tight end..which proves my point that we did throw to our tight ends and saying we didn't is a naive and wrong.[/QUOTE]

Your point is fair share, please define that, what do you consider to be a fair share of passes for a TE?

let me help you he caught 158 passes in 11 years and as Gibbs offense evolved his catches went down, after 1983 he caught 20 passes 1 time with a total of 7 career TD's thats about 14 catches a year.

In 8 yrs Didier caught 141 passes and only 3 times did he catch more than 13 in a season which breaks down to about 17 catches a year.

Which then breaks down to 31 catches a year between 2 players.

The top 7 TE's last year averaged 75 catches each.

Gibbs doesn't put any focus of the game plan around the TE, of coarse their going to make some catches and some plays even a broken clock is right twice a day but their not a big part of the game plan by any means. There is a reason a guy like Warren stuck around so long, it was because Gibbs values a TE's abiltiy to block more than to catch.

Re: Joe Gibbs lied
 

Skinsguy don't even bother with off, he will argue till you are blue in the face. He is never wrong so there is no point in trying to make him see the light cause he is never wrong.

However I agree with your assesment that they were use mostly for blocking and did get their FAIR SHARE of passes. Comparing them to todays TE is unfair as offense and defensive game plans have changed along with a better crop of athletic TE's. Seems to me that the West Coast offense was in its iffancy stages in the 80's.

Keep up the good posts and ignore those who, well you know what I mean here.