Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

I found it...

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

Here it is--[URL=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/19/AR2006011902124.html]Redskins Reportedly Hire Saunders From K.C.[/URL]

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna]I'm not seeing any articles on WP.com... or redskins.com... where's this info coming from??[/QUOTE]

[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/19/AR2006011902124.html"]Redskins Reportedly Hire Saunders From K.C.[/url]


By Jason La Canfora
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 19, 2006; 2:21 PM[size=3] [/size]


The Washington Redskins reportedly have hired Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator Al Saunders for the coaching staff, according to a story on The Kansas City Star's Web site.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

That Post article is wonderful. I'm truly excited!

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

Man teams are hating the Skins now taking Two head coaches of the market. Maybe Gibbs realized that he could not spend freely on players so he would make up for it by spending freely on coaches. Next the league is going to have a cap on coaching staff.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]Man teams are hating the Skins now taking Two head coaches of the market. Maybe Gibbs realized that he could not spend freely on players so he would make up for it by spending freely on coaches. Next the league is going to have a cap on coaching staff.[/QUOTE]

I doubt it. The cap rule thing on coaches won't fly.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I say Breaux is No Moeaux[/QUOTE]

Breaux may retire but Gibbs will never force him out. They go way back together.

Someone was asking what Musgrave's role was. He was brought in to add aspects of the West Coast offense to Gibbs' more Gillmanesque approach to passing. I wouldn't be surprised if he moved on, now.

The NFL has rules about parallel coaching moves and tampering which is why you heve all these Assistant Head Coaches. Russ Grimm is an Assistant Head Coach for Pittsburgh even though he's really the O.L. coach. Other teams cannot hire him away as offensive coordinator without tampering. It would be considered a parallel coaching move. Likewise if Saunders becomes an Assistant Head Coach, the only way he, Bugel, or Williams could leave would be a head coaching job. In addition, if Breaux or Blache, who have the coordinator titles, leave, they would have to be either Head Coaches or Assistant Head Coaches.

Having said all that I don't see how it helps the Redskins all that much. Unless Larry Johnson, Trent Green, Willie Roaf, and Donte Hall come with, I don't see how Saunders schemes will improve the Skins all that much. What plays do they run that our current coaches aren't capable of diagramming? Their offense is derived from the same sources that ours is. Don Coryell, Ernie Zampesi, Sid Gillman, Norv Turner, Mike Martz, Joe Gibbs... they all run the same stuff. Saunders is entrenched in this school as well. Perhaps he is a better teacher, a better practice coach if you will, but I guess we shall see.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=70Chip]Breaux may retire but Gibbs will never force him out. They go way back together.

Someone was asking what Musgrave's role was. He was brought in to add aspects of the West Coast offense to Gibbs' more Gillmanesque approach to passing. I wouldn't be surprised if he moved on, now.

The NFL has rules about parallel coaching moves and tampering which is why you heve all these Assistant Head Coaches. Russ Grimm is an Assistant Head Coach for Pittsburgh even though he's really the O.L. coach. Other teams cannot hire him away as offensive coordinator without tampering. It would be considered a parallel coaching move. Likewise if Saunders becomes an Assistant Head Coach, the only way he, Bugel, or Williams could leave would be a head coaching job. In addition, if Breaux or Blache, who have the coordinator titles, leave, they would have to be either Head Coaches or Assistant Head Coaches.

Having said all that I don't see how it helps the Redskins all that much. Unless Larry Johnson, Trent Green, Willie Roaf, and Donte Hall come with, I don't see how Saunders schemes will improve the Skins all that much. What plays do they run that our current coaches aren't capable of diagramming? Their offense is derived from the same sources that ours is. Don Coryell, Ernie Zampesi, Sid Gillman, Norv Turner, Mike Martz, Joe Gibbs... they all run the same stuff. Saunders is entrenched in this school as well. Perhaps he is a better teacher, a better practice coach if you will, but I guess we shall see.[/QUOTE]

Well, I think he will help the offense in the same way that Gregg Williams has lifted the defense through his genious. I think it's reasonable to think that Saunders would add to our offense.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]Well, I think he will help the offense in the same way that Gregg Williams has lifted the defense through his genious. I think it's reasonable to think that Saunders would add to our offense.[/QUOTE]

I think the first question you ask is:

Who will call the plays? If Gibbs were to give that up, you would have one heck of a story. If not, they're just adding one more person to an already overstaffed comittee.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

I've never heard of Sid Gillman. Can someone give me a background on him?

The only thing I can gather from this at the outset is that Gibbs is ready to hand over the reins so he can ease up a bit on the hours at Redskin Park. An article by Joseph White from the AP ran in my local paper a couple of days ago saying that Gibbs complained more this season about the long hours than at any point in his career.

Maybe he's ready to take a step back and handle just the head coaching responsibilities apart from coordinating and playcalling duties. Notice he didn't bring a 'West Coast' guy in here. He still wants to stick with his offensive philosophy, so I think this is a good move.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]I've never heard of Sid Gillman. Can someone give me a background on him?

The only thing I can gather from this at the outset is that Gibbs is ready to hand over the reins so he can ease up a bit on the hours at Redskin Park. An article by Joseph White from the AP ran in my local paper a couple of days ago saying that Gibbs complained more this season about the long hours than at any point in his career.

Maybe he's ready to take a step back and handle just the head coaching responsibilities apart from coordinating and playcalling duties. Notice he didn't bring a 'West Coast' guy in here. He still wants to stick with his offensive philosophy, so I think this is a good move.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Gilman[/url]

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

70chip, i don't think mike martz and joe gibbs run the same offensive system.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

this is huge news... KC's running game is second to none- even though they have an edge in OL talent, I believe Saunders can do something with our own personnel.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

if breaux stays, then i think saunders will become assistant head coach-offense and bugel will become just o-line coach (bugels not gonna sign anywhere else so we dont have to worry about that)

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

I like the timing of this move. I don't care about "taking head coaches away" from other teams. I like the fact that they will have an ENTIRE offseason to plan and create an offense for this year. Those who don't see the benefit of this move may be a little football ignorant. More ideas are better than fewer ideas. Throw them all out and then fine tune the ones that work and coincide with the personell. Saunders+Gibbs+Breaux+Musgrave=BETTER OFFENSIVE PRODUCTION.
HTTR!!

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

I have to take issue with the Wikipedia link above. It claims that Gilman was the father of what is today known as the 'west coast' offense. Not so. What is now called the 'west coast' offense was developed by Paul Brown and Bill Walsh in Cincinatti in the early 1970s when the two coached together there. (call it the Ohio Valley offense) It was perfected and became famous when Joe Montana ran it for Walsh in San Francisco. This offense emphasises short controlled passes and was developed to allow a smaller team to control the clock without a power running game.

Gilman's offense, by contrast, emphasized deep passes and was the league standard for passing offenses prior to the emergence of the 'West Coast'.

Regarding Martz and Gibbs, I would suggest that in terms of the passing game the two have more, not less, in common. A qb coming from St. Louis to Washington would have much less to relearn than he would going to say Philadelphia or Green Bay where they run the west coast. Within an offense, one coach may emphasize run as Gibbs does now, or he may emphasize the pass as Martz does and Gibbs did in San Diego as the coordinator in 1979 and 1980. That's all.

In addition these offenses are constantly evolving so when one says 'west coast' offense or 'Joe Gibbs' offense, its a dynamic rather than static thing. Gibbs has said that offenses change about 30% a year. They steal things from other teams, think up new ideas, emphasize certain aspects to maximize talent, etc.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

I Think That Saunders Is A Great Addition To The Redskin Family Hopefully He Does Open Up The Offense Immediately During Games Instead Of Waitng Until We Are Down By 14 Points Or Some Crap Like That.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

More stuff--it's up at [URL=http://www.redskins.com]redskins.com[/URL] now--also, they report that the ENTIRE coaching staff is returning for next year! Talk about continuity!

:biggthump :biggthump :biggthump

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

Oh, and Welcome 3rd ID Soldier--are you home or overseas? Thanks for serving and welcome to the board!

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

This is almost as good a Clinton Portis, coming to Washington

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

Martz was our QB coach at one time. I think it was for Norv, but it may have been under Gibbs.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

Does anyone else also see this as a way to fix the problem the Skins had with losing to AFC teams? I think Gibbs really hit a home run with this signing.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]Martz was our QB coach at one time. I think it was for Norv, but it may have been under Gibbs.[/QUOTE]

Under Norv, 1997 and 1998.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=70Chip]I have to take issue with the Wikipedia link above. It claims that Gilman was the father of what is today known as the 'west coast' offense. Not so. What is now called the 'west coast' offense was developed by Paul Brown and Bill Walsh in Cincinatti in the early 1970s when the two coached together there. (call it the Ohio Valley offense) It was perfected and became famous when Joe Montana ran it for Walsh in San Francisco. This offense emphasises short controlled passes and was developed to allow a smaller team to control the clock without a power running game.

Gilman's offense, by contrast, emphasized deep passes and was the league standard for passing offenses prior to the emergence of the 'West Coast'.

Regarding Martz and Gibbs, I would suggest that in terms of the passing game the two have more, not less, in common. A qb coming from St. Louis to Washington would have much less to relearn than he would going to say Philadelphia or Green Bay where they run the west coast. Within an offense, one coach may emphasize run as Gibbs does now, or he may emphasize the pass as Martz does and Gibbs did in San Diego as the coordinator in 1979 and 1980. That's all.

In addition these offenses are constantly evolving so when one says 'west coast' offense or 'Joe Gibbs' offense, its a dynamic rather than static thing. Gibbs has said that offenses change about 30% a year. They steal things from other teams, think up new ideas, emphasize certain aspects to maximize talent, etc.[/QUOTE]

I actually have heard that Jerry Burns, the Vikings HC in the 1970s, invented it. And I've heard Walsh. And I've heard that Coryell did while in college and Walsh refined it.

Either way, this is an interesting article.

[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/1999/10/28/inside_football/[/url]

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

I literally jumped out of my seat and danced a little jig when I saw the news go across the bottom line on espn after I got home from work. This is freakin awesome news and the team now has one super mega head coach with two head coaches keeping track of the teams 2 most important branches. I'm extremely excited to see what type of play calling wrinkles this will add to the offense one of which is hopefully more rb screen plays as they seemed to work every time when used but I only remember them being called less than a handfull of times this season. and is anyone else buying a little more into my idea of a possible arrington for tony g. trade now if we do trade arrington ;) ?

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

Why not trade Ramsey for Tony G.? Also, why get Tony G.? Nothing against him but he is pretty much the equevalent to our Cooley, they both line up tight or out wide as receivers. I like Tony but I think that Cooley is getting the job done for a cheaper price.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]More stuff--it's up at [url="http://www.redskins.com/"]redskins.com[/url] now--also, they report that the ENTIRE coaching staff is returning for next year! [b][size=3]Talk about continuity![/size][/b]
[b][size=4] [/size][/b]
:biggthump :biggthump :biggthump[/QUOTE]

Redskins and continuity?? I don't know how to react. What will we do when we can't yell about how this organization sucks because of a lack of continuity.

[size=7][color=orange] :)[/color][/size]

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I actually have heard that Jerry Burns, the Vikings HC in the 1970s, invented it. And I've heard Walsh. And I've heard that Coryell did while in college and Walsh refined it.

Either way, this is an interesting article.

[url="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/1999/10/28/inside_football/"]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/1999/10/28/inside_football/[/url][/QUOTE]

This is a killer article. It's almost impossible to believe that the Skins had better offensive numbers at any point in 1999 than the Rams. Anyone who is interested in the history of the league will enjoy this link. Great stuff TAFKAS!

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

I think you are all missing the point of Gibbs hiring Saunders!!! First it shows again Gibbs can check his ego at the door and get minds that know the NFL game!!! In todays NFL it is not the same game when GIBBS left. Free agency for one and the Cap!!! D's are attacking you all the time!!! The games is much more fast paced with technologly,rule changes and so on!!! The first season back he needed to get his feet wet and get the players he needed among other things like leaning first hand what today NFL was about. Here is a little thing for example remember last season when we would blow all out times out before we needed to use them to stop the clock! Not this season!!! Gibbs see that you need football minds that see thing from D side and the O side along with special teams. You need coaches to get the players ready in the off season, during the season and on and on I could go with this. The saying "Champions are built in the off season" is so right!!! What Saunders bring to the table great track record and credibleity. He can look at this seasons team and know what needs to be changed with plays or new players and so on. Not many teams can say they have three guys or more that could be head coaches!!! A O that was 30th to 11th in 2005 should only be better in 06! Thanks Dan S for getting the minds that know who to win!!!

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]I think you are all missing the point of Gibbs hiring Saunders!!! First it shows again Gibbs can check his ego at the door and get minds that know the NFL game!!! In todays NFL it is not the same game when GIBBS left. Free agency for one and the Cap!!! D's are attacking you all the time!!! The games is much more fast paced with technologly,rule changes and so on!!! The first season back he needed to get his feet wet and get the players he needed among other things like leaning first hand what today NFL was about. Here is a little thing for example remember last season when we would blow all out times out before we needed to use them to stop the clock! Not this season!!! Gibbs see that you need football minds that see thing from D side and the O side along with special teams. You need coaches to get the players ready in the off season, during the season and on and on I could go with this. The saying "Champions are built in the off season" is so right!!! What Saunders bring to the table great track record and credibleity. He can look at this seasons team and know what needs to be changed with plays or new players and so on. Not many teams can say they have three guys or more that could be head coaches!!! A O that was 30th to 11th in 2005 should only be better in 06! Thanks Dan S for getting the minds that know who to win!!![/QUOTE]

If you had read this thread, you would have noticed that almost no one is missing the point...

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]I think you are all missing the point of Gibbs hiring Saunders!!! First it shows again Gibbs can check his ego at the door and get minds that know the NFL game!!! In todays NFL it is not the same game when GIBBS left. Free agency for one and the Cap!!! D's are attacking you all the time!!! The games is much more fast paced with technologly,rule changes and so on!!![/QUOTE]

Gibbs has never had an ego, I agree with you on that part! Not sure exactly what you mean by "getting minds that know the NFL game?" Are you suggesting that Gibbs doesn't have the mind for the NFL anymore? I'd have to humbly disagree with that! Even though I believe the offense needed improvement after the performance we witnessed in the playoffs, overall, Gibbs and his offensive staff elevated the offense from #30 to #11. While it wasn't a flashy offense, at times, it was unstoppable! Hiring Al Saunders will give us what we need to push it over the hump and really allow this offense to exploded! But remember, Saunder's philosophy is the same philosophy of Gibbs. You're not going to see a completely different philosophy. He is just going to reinforce what we have already been doing while hopefully spreading the offense some.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=70Chip]I think the first question you ask is:

Who will call the plays? If Gibbs were to give that up, you would have one heck of a story. If not, they're just adding one more person to an already overstaffed comittee.[/QUOTE]

Well it's not really who calls the plays, but [i]what plays[/i] and schemes, if you will, are added. Playcalling is a part of it, but not all of it. Also take into consideration that Saunders may utilize certain players more or less.
For instance, the role of a Robert Royal could be expanded next year.

And yes, I think Gibbs will give up some of his play calling to Saunders.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

Gibbs wasn't calling all the plays this year anyway, so if he gives part or all of it up it won't be a radical change.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

Its going to be interesting to see if they keep the Gibb's system (h-back and multiple formation/motion plays) or totally convert. I understand that the guys have the same background, but their offenses are completely different. Also, I know we sort of collapsed in the post season, but Gibbs/Breaux/Buges took the team from the 30th ranked offense in 2004 to 11th in 2005... I'm not sure if its time to re-vamp everything.

I wonder how radical this change is going to be.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]If you had read this thread, you would have noticed that almost no one is missing the point...[/QUOTE]

Thank you. What exactly did we miss, RedskinPete? The previous 148 posts basically said everything you said.

And what's with ending almost every sentence with three exclamation points !!! That's pretty annoying !!!

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna]Its going to be interesting to see if they keep the Gibb's system (h-back and multiple formation/motion plays) or totally convert. I understand that the guys have the same background, but their offenses are completely different. Also, I know we sort of collapsed in the post season, but Gibbs/Breaux/Buges took the team from the 30th ranked offense in 2004 to 11th in 2005... I'm not sure if its time to re-vamp everything.

I wonder how radical this change is going to be.[/QUOTE]

Good points. I think the 'H-back' is purely a Joe Gibbs innovation. In fact, I remember reading that Gibbs came up with the position as a way to combat the threat posed by Lawrence Taylor. Looking back, Norv never used an H-back, as it's called, in Dallas or Washington -- Daryl Johnston, Marc Logan, Larry Bowie -- they were all listed as "full backs". They mainly served as blockers. Norv Turner once said that his fullbacks blocked 70% of the time, received passes 20% of the time, and ran the ball just 10%.

The other key difference appears to be use of tight ends in receiving patterns more so than in Gibbs' offense. Guys like Jay Novacek, Jamie Asher, Stephen Alexander for Norv Turner, and Tony Gonzales for Al Saunders are clearly more involved as receivers than Gibbs' tight ends are. Ron Middleton, James Jenkins, and Robert Royal now, come to mind as players who served roles more as blockers than pass catchers. Something tells me that Cooley would be more than capable of adapting to the 'receiving' tight end if called on to do so.

I guess it's all going to depend on precisely how much control Gibbs is willing to relenquish to Saunders with the offense.

Re: offensive coordinator
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]Yes, Dan Henning...now w/Carolina. And Don Breaux, our current OC, worked with Gibbs in the past.[/QUOTE]

So what is going to happen to [url="http://www.redskins.com/team/cprofile.jsp?id=31"][b][color=#800080]Don Breaux[/color][/b][/url] now? What will his role be? Assistant OC? Although he and the rest of the coaching staff just signed a new contract?
see [url="http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=15096"]http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=15096[/url]

Re: offensive coordinator
 

[QUOTE=Darrell_Green_28]So what is going to happen to [url="http://www.redskins.com/team/cprofile.jsp?id=31"][b][color=#800080]Don Breaux[/color][/b][/url] now? What will his role be? Assistant OC? Although he and the rest of the coaching staff just signed a new contract?
see [url="http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=15096"]http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=15096[/url][/QUOTE]

I think we'll see yet another innovative, assistant coaching title for Breaux: Maybe he'll be the "Quality Control - Offensive Assistant in charge of Converting 3rd and Long." Or 3rd and Short. Either one.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

I am I the only one that thinks that KC's offense is very similar to ours? I mean think about it, Cooley and Tony G. play similar rolls on the offense, both rely on a strong running game and play action passes. KC lined up in 2 TE sets, and single back formations, too. I think that we will see basicly Gibbs offense with new rinkles intellegently mixed in from Saunders.

Re: It's official - Al Saunders is our new offensive coordinator!
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]I am I the only one that thinks that KC's offense is very similar to ours? I mean think about it, Cooley and Tony G. play similar rolls on the offense, both rely on a strong running game and play action passes. KC lined up in 2 TE sets, and single back formations, too. I think that we will see basicly Gibbs offense with new rinkles intellegently mixed in from Saunders.[/QUOTE]

no, you're right - that is what makes this such a good fit. they are similiar. saunders may have schemed a little differently and used different sets, but the philosophies are pretty much the same.