Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

You forgot Joe Gibbs, Dan Snyder, Vinny Cerrato, Brandon Lloyd.....

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

GTripp,

I love your resolve to prove us wrong and back up your undying support of Brunell, but I cannot believe that you don't think Brunell was A problem. Apparently Gibbs agrees with us and I'll just leave it at that.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

It's about time! Thank you God, Brunell has been driving me crazy for 3 yr's!

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

GTripp has been nothing if not persistent. And he's been right in many cases and wrong in others. He's right that it's not all Brunell's fault but he does have to take a lot of blame.

But I really hope we don't just keep talking about him, or Ramsey, or Shuler, or Humphries, etc. I'd love it if we can just focus on Campbell and his performance now. I mean how long have we been waiting just for the chance to talk about his on-field performance? Well, now we finally have that chance

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

So according to "advanced statistics," if Campbell had played yesterday we would have scored -1 pts?? MB is afraid to throw down the middle of the field, and can't throw longer than 10 yards to save his life. With all our speed at WR, its criminal to not take at least a few shots per game downfield. Brunell's avg. yards per attempt has got to be near the bottom of the list...

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=TAFKAS;245280]GTripp has been nothing if not persistent. And he's been right in many cases and wrong in others. He's right that it's not all Brunell's fault but he does have to take a lot of blame.

But I really hope we don't just keep talking about him, or Ramsey, or Shuler, or Humphries, etc. I'd love it if we can just focus on Campbell and his performance now. I mean how long have we been waiting just for the chance to talk about his on-field performance? Well, now we finally have that chance[/quote]

I agree. I admire GTripp's eloquent and steadfast defense of Mark Brunell. Better to be a contrarian than a chameleon.

And to your second point, yeah. Not much we can do now but wait for the game to be played.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;245267]GTripp,

I love your resolve to prove us wrong and back up your undying support of Brunell, but I cannot believe that you don't think Brunell was A problem. Apparently Gibbs agrees with us and I'll just leave it at that.[/quote]

I agree with his basic point which is we have alot of problems right now that go beyond the QB position. Campbell is not the magic pill, so if anyone really thinks that they may be in for a rude awakening come Sunday.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

it can't get any worse i'll tell you that!

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

yeah, I mean truth be told, if our defense was even half of what it's been the past few seasons, we would have a few more wins and Brunell would probably still have his job...

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=3rd ID SOLDIER;245298]it can't get any worse i'll tell you that![/quote]*Waits for Sunday*

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;245299]yeah, I mean truth be told, if our defense was even half of what it's been the past few seasons, we would have a few more wins and Brunell would probably still have his job...[/QUOTE]

At the same time, we had our chances yesterday to score and stay in the game (20 mins time of posession in the 1st half) and the defense actually made some stops, but we couldn't punch it in.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

Let the church say AMEN!

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

I'm pretty much just itching to bash the hell out of our lousy D. Two things I hate: lousy defense and not running the football....

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

NICE!!!!

(Borat Voice)

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

let me in this conversation. whats going on

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=GMScud;245284]So according to "advanced statistics," if Campbell had played yesterday we would have scored -1 pts?? MB is afraid to throw down the middle of the field, and can't throw longer than 10 yards to save his life. With all our speed at WR, its criminal to not take at least a few shots per game downfield. Brunell's avg. yards per attempt has got to be near the bottom of the list...[/quote]The 4 points a game is an average, not something we would lose every game. I bet Campbell could have put up at least 3 against Phili. But he wouldn't have gotten 36 against Jacksonville.

Brunell's yards per attempt are near the top (which has been my point all along). He gets a lot of YAC help, but when hes doing his part, it's hard to blame him. And if the defense has truly been playing up against us because they dont fear Brunell, then where did all the YAC come from? Let's face it, common opinion of Brunells year to date is wrong [I]somewhere.[/I]

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

Supreme effort from great players to turn Brunell's 'Pig's Ear' into a 'Silk Purse' play.

There's your explanation.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;245267]GTripp,

I love your resolve to prove us wrong and back up your undying support of Brunell, but I cannot believe that you don't think Brunell was A problem. Apparently Gibbs agrees with us and I'll just leave it at that.[/quote]He absolutely was a problem...yesterday. AND against Dallas week 2. Horrible games those days. What was the common link? Clinton Portis didn't play in the 2nd half of either game.

It's not an excuse, just correlation.

So if Campbell is missing CP, why would I expect him to fare any better?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=RedskinRat;245319]Supreme effort from great players to turn Brunell's 'Pig's Ear' into a 'Silk Purse' play.

There's your explanation.[/quote]I think you're wrong.

That was easy.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=GTripp0012;245260]Except to this day it would be just as deloooooooosional to think that we'd be any better than 2-7 with Campbell at QB. The games we lost we didn't lose because of the QB position, and the Jacksonville game we won because of it.

You can't solve all your teams problems with a QB change, espicially when the QB wasn't the issue.

Here's a list of guys who have had worse seasons than MB:

Jon Jansen
Al Saunders
Derrick Dockery
Chris Cooley (my favorite Redskin)
Christian Fauria
Gregg Williams
Adam Archuleta
Sean Taylor
Carlos Rogers (I think he will improve drastically in the 2nd half of the year)
Warrick Holdman
Lemar Marshall (my 2nd favorite Redskin)
Marcus Washington
Andre Carter
Phillip Daniels

Good, now that we have Brunell out of the way, what are we going to do with those guys? And who is going to be Campbell's replacement when he doesnt throw 4 TDs this week?

According to [URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php"]advanced statistics[/URL] Brunell is personally responsible for 36.6 points this season (4.1 DPAR/G) (above replacement, or a guy responsible for exactly 0, and yes you can be below replacement level). Until further proof, Campbell would fall at the replacement QB range (0 DPAR/G). In his prime, Campbell is projected to produce 6.1 DPAR/G. That means Campbell at his prime would be responsible for 55.0 points this season up until this point. But he's got a ways to go to make his projection so you are almost certainly taking a hit in the present.

So in the present, I would expect our average pts/game to decrease by 4 for the rest of the year, slowly increasing as JC gets expierence.[/quote]

OH, Hi! It's my new long lost twin again!! :)

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

I'm happy that Campbell is finally getting his shot. I think Brunell did the best he could, but his time is over. Brunell is a professional and a stand up guy and I believe he'll support Campbell.

I hope this will be a motivator for the team as well. It seems like we've been in slow motion with no clear direction and a sorely lacking sense of identity. I'm ready for us to move forward and finally end all the drama. Either way, it will be interesting watching the rest of season just to see how the kid is coming along.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;245050]Good for Jason. But let me ask this. A rookie QB, without Portis-am I the only one who thinks next week (the next few weeks in fact) will be a very scaled back basic offense with, yes, a lot of short passes?[/QUOTE]

I actually think we're OK with Betts/Duckett. If it's one thing this front office did right, it was prepare for an injury to a running back or wideout.

If they're throwing Campbell to the wolves, and they have to see what he's got, then it would make no sense to keep the leash on him with 5 -10 yard passing patterns. Not only that, I think Saunders has had deep routes on all of his schemes -- Campbell's going to take chances like that anyway.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;245327]I actually think we're OK with Betts/Duckett. If it's one thing this front office did right, it was prepare for an injury to a running back or wideout.

If they're throwing Campbell to the wolves, and they have to see what he's got, then it would make no sense to keep the leash on him with 5 -10 yard passing patterns. Not only that, I think Saunders has had deep routes on all of his schemes -- Campbell's going to take chances like that anyway.[/QUOTE]

Long term I think you're right. I think the immediate future may be a bit (a lot) more conservative than fans want to accept.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

red rat i love the sig

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

Finally, someone noticed. Even if he is high on caffeine

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=RedskinRat;245319]Supreme effort from great players to turn Brunell's 'Pig's Ear' into a 'Silk Purse' play.

There's your explanation.[/quote]But to give some [URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr.php"]actual hard evidence[/URL] that you are off the mark, so to speak...

I assume you are talking about the "great wide receivers and tight ends" we have.

Santana Moss is producing at an 8.7 DPAR level this season. Very good, but no where near last year.

Brandon Lloyd's DPAR -0.4
Antwaan Randle El's DPAR -0.2
Chris Cooley DPAR 2.9

For sake of comparision
James Thrash DPAR 4.4

So the "Supreme effort from great players" given by Randle El and Lloyd haven't quite made them into [I]replacement players[/I] this season. Cooley is a great player having a drop laden season.

It's Brunell's and somewhat Moss' doing that we have a passing game at all this year. Now you are removing a big part of that equation. Guess we will just have to run the...wow...maybe our offense is gonna blow this week.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

It's about time. The decision I've been screaming for since Opening Day is finally happening!

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

Not to get into an argument GT, but I think you're looking at it from the wrong end.

Brandon Lloyd's DPAR -0.4
Antwaan Randle El's DPAR -0.2
Chris Cooley DPAR 2.9

How often have we seen MB complete consecutive average to long passes this season. We haven't. If you have WR's running downfield and no ball arriving who's that on?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=RedskinRat;245333]Finally, someone noticed. Even if he is high on caffeine[/quote]

i m not on that stuff, i prefer the cigar or wacky tabacky

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=TAFKAS;245050]Good for Jason. But let me ask this. A rookie QB, without Portis-am I the only one who thinks next week (the next few weeks in fact) will be a very scaled back basic offense with, yes, a lot of short passes?[/quote]

I think between Betts,Duckett,Cartwright that situation is good. I understand he is accurate with his throws, a younger arm has definitely got to be stronger than what Brunnel has now, and he has the ability so scramble so that may help the running backs by forcing defenses to account for his scrambling ability.

More importantly is stopping the penalties, and defensively I would like to see
Mackintosh in at LB.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=RedskinRat;245340]Not to get into an argument GT, but I think you're looking at it from the wrong end.

Brandon Lloyd's DPAR -0.4
Antwaan Randle El's DPAR -0.2
Chris Cooley DPAR 2.9

How often have we seen MB complete consecutive average to long passes this season. We haven't. If you have WR's running downfield and no ball arriving who's that on?[/quote]It's DPAR. Those numbers are unaffected by balls that go other places. I don't know the exact formula, but the point of WR DPAR is to try to seperate it from that of the QB. When a guy like Moss can put up such a high number (producing a point every game more than a replacement WR is huge. WRs don't touch the ball much compared to RBs and QBs), and has no help from the other guys. (I know they don't get thrown to all that much, but the point is it's negative. Negative means they are [U][B]costing[/B][/U] their team PPG over a replacement player. Granted a -.04 and -.02 havent lost us any games, but they couldn't have possibly helped win them).

There really isn't an arguement. Before we had a passing game (it was stronger than our running game), but now without Portis and Brunell, we have neither. Just a young guy, which is a good thing. What is going to happen to our offense Sunday...isn't.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

I think, as Gibbs said, they will tailor the offense to Jason's ( and ladell's for that matter) strengths. I am sure we will see some deep throws, more than we have.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

GTripp,

It's starting to almost sound like you want to see the offense flounder just so you can say "I told you so."

If the offense scores more than 3 points (which you predict), will you just chalk it up to Tampa playing poorly, the playcalling being better, or other offensive players executing better? My guess is yes. I cannot see you praising Campbell.

BTW, I'm not meaning to act like a jerk, even if this post seems like I am one.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

This thread has turned into a statistical comedy.

I just find it interesting that now Brunell will be supporting Campbell much like Ramsey supported him when was yanked and had to cheer from the sidelines.
This shouldn't be too hard of a pill for Brunell to swallow actually.

Who would have thought, both him and Ramsey are now riding the pine.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

where did the 'bad luck' stat, the 'shitty game entitlement' stat, and the 'rainy, away, division game' stat go?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=illdefined;245369]where did the 'bad luck' stat, the 'shitty game entitlement' stat, and the 'rainy, away, division game' stat go?[/quote]Those are known as the discrepencies between stats and reality. My explinations for them. "Observations" if you will.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;245366]GTripp,

It's starting to almost sound like you want to see the offense flounder just so you can say "I told you so."

If the offense scores more than 3 points (which you predict), will you just chalk it up to Tampa playing poorly, the playcalling being better, or other offensive players executing better? My guess is yes. I cannot see you praising Campbell.

BTW, I'm not meaning to act like a jerk, even if this post seems like I am one.[/QUOTE]

I don't think Campbell will put "explosive" numbers for the first few games at least. I hope I'm wrong and he sets the world on fire starting this Sunday. I'm sure many others, including yourself, feel the same way.

But we both know there are those here (whether it was re: Ramsey, re: Brunell, re: whoever) who would rather be right and see the team lose than wrong and see the team win. I know I'll get accused of questioning the "fanhood" of some people but it's the truth.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;245366]GTripp,

It's starting to almost sound like you want to see the offense flounder just so you can say "I told you so."

If the offense scores more than 3 points (which you predict), will you just chalk it up to Tampa playing poorly, the playcalling being better, or other offensive players executing better? My guess is yes. I cannot see you praising Campbell.

BTW, I'm not meaning to act like a jerk, even if this post seems like I am one.[/quote]Nah, you are hardly being a jerk.

All your points are fair. It's funny cause this is exactly what everyone else was sounding like to me all these weeks. They pretty much were waiting for Brunell to fail. Took awhile, but he did in fact crap out vs. Phili. Looks like the rolls have changed now.

I like Jason Campbell. He was a good pick and will be a great NFL QB. It's not going to happen overnight, which is how long it took to bench Brunell. So now as our schedule softens, we are going to drain all hope of making the playoffs. I am irritated about it. I didn't wait through the offseason so we could have the same amount of losses we had all of last season before giving up.

If the offense scores more points, I'll do the same thing I've always done. I'll investigate deeper into the game, try to explain to the rest of you why what happened did, and either be laughed out of the room or praised.

Either way, I'll be true to myself.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=TAFKAS;245378]But we both know there are those here (whether it was re: Ramsey, re: Brunell, re: whoever) who would rather be right and see the team lose than wrong and see the team win. I know I'll get accused of questioning the "fanhood" of some people but it's the truth.[/quote]I hope you guys don't think that includes me. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;245378]I don't think Campbell will put "explosive" numbers for the first few games at least. I hope I'm wrong and he sets the world on fire starting this Sunday. I'm sure many others, including yourself, feel the same way.

But we both know there are those here (whether it was re: Ramsey, re: Brunell, re: whoever) who would rather be right and see the team lose than wrong and see the team win. I know I'll get accused of questioning the "fanhood" of some people but it's the truth.[/QUOTE]

I definately don't expect to see Campbell light up opposing defenses. My guess is that he struggles for the first 5 games or so and starts to "come on" at the very end of the season.

I didn't mean to question GTripp's fandom. I know that GTripp loves the team and always wants to see them win. I just think there will be a certain part of him that will enjoy seeing Campbell struggle.

As a recovering Ramseyfan, I know all about trying to see the good in a particular player, even when they are playing poorly. That said, when Brunell started playing well last season, I gave him props and didn't particularly mourn Ramsey's departure. I would just like to see GTripp do the same with Brunell; admit Brunell isn't even an average QB ([U]I'm not laying all or even most of the team's woes on Brunell[/U]), doesn't deserve to start, and wish his successor the best.