Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

Low-life is a modest characterization. I too love dogs, and own two of my own. I find that kind of behavior absolutely disgusting.......No other way to describe it.

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

yeah i guess it's pretty messed up. i never really like dogs much myself, kind of annoying. maybe one day i'll change. the article didn't make it seem like it was too big of a deal.

what about people that put dogs in bags and take them to restaurants and stuff. one time this rich b@#$# brought some rat-looking thing into a subway (i guess he had gained some pounds), and i was more disgusted about that. the clerk kicked her out.

maybe they should gather up all those dogs and be rid of them, steamroll them or something... though it's probably more the owners.....

GO SKINS!

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[QUOTE=VTSkins897;303300]yeah i guess it's pretty messed up. i never really like dogs much myself, kind of annoying. maybe one day i'll change. the article didn't make it seem like it was too big of a deal.

what about people that put dogs in bags and take them to restaurants and stuff. one time this rich b@#$# brought some rat-looking thing into a subway (i guess he had gained some pounds), and i was more disgusted about that. the clerk kicked her out.

maybe they should gather up all those dogs and be rid of them, steamroll them or something... though it's probably more the owners.....

GO SKINS![/QUOTE]


Goes to show the extended love pet lovers have for their pets whether they be dogs or otherwise. That example does not compare to training dogs to fight and mutulate one another which not only is disgusting, but illegal as well.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;303154]Manning will be a top 5, that I have no doubt, but if he were to retire today, he's not better than Young. So I won't count him. Brady...are you kidding? [/quote]

Tom Brady is already a better all time quarteback than Steve Young. If you like stats so much you should look at the most powerful stats a QB can have. 12-2 record in the postseason. Nfl record for most consecutive wins in the postseson. 3 rings and he is only halfway through his career. Manning is also already ahead of Young. Brady and Manning could very easily end up#1 and #2 all time.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

We have no control over who we are related too. However, if I were Vick I'd kick his a*s out.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=hesscl34;303329]We have no control over who we are related too. However, if I were Vick I'd kick his a*s out.[/quote]

I agree. I think it's irresponsible for Vick to have his folks in his place to begin with, but I wouldn't go as far as calling him an animal abuser. But, hey, that's just me.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

Different era, different way of playing - But I think SI got it right. Tarkenton was THE greatest scrambling QB. You put him in SF's offense at Young's time and he would have doubled Young's stats.

No, he didn't have a lot of downfield yards but the title is "Scrambling QB's" not "Running QB's". Tark was AMAZING at creating time with his feet.

Was Young the greatest QB of all time? maybe maybe not. it's all a matter of opinion - stats take you only so far. If you ask any general manage who they would rather have - Young or Montana? My bet is that, even with better stats, Young would be the majority second pick.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=Rajmahal33;303011]No i am not having a problem reading and unless I missed something, they did not find the drugs they were looking for and that is why this hasn't been a bigger story...During the course of that investigation they found these neglected dogs. Now lemme reiterate, I am not condoning the treatment that the dogs received BUT as far as VICK goes unless there is a direct link to him and the dogs I consider it a non-issue on his record. It's more likely that his idiot relative ran this thing, b/c lets face it that family doesn't have a stellar record (see Marcus Vick). Athletes these days are already targets and I don't think there should be a witch hunt for Vick b/c of this. Someone earlier made the point that its unfair to expect that an athlete's entire family will be model citizens and if they are caught in some sh*t its not fair to try to pin it on the athlete (even if it was his house). Innocent til proven guilty

Btw don't try to be condescending, its f*ckin pathetic passive aggressive BS.[/quote]
The direct link is his house, the building to house the dogs. and its not like they only found a couple of dogs it was several dozen. At this time I'm not going to bash Vick or convict him (in my mind) until all is known. If it is found that Vick had no knowledge of this he needs to seperate himself from the people in his family who are going to drag his name through the mud. Vick the person is a business and this type of stuff if it keeps up could really hurt his career.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

If I have a complete team (good O and good D - neither need be overwhelming), Ten QB's I would take over Young (in no particular order):

Brady
Unitas
Montana
Graham (Otto)
Baugh
Marino
Elway
Manning
Farve
Tarkenton

You put Young on an equal team and anyone of those ten beats him at least 50% of the time.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=mooby;302913]This isn't a funny article in any way, but I love how PETA sent a letter to Arthur Blank asking for Vick to be kicked off the team if he is harming those dogs or using them for dog fighting.[/quote]Thats the same PETA that picked up dogs from a pound, uthenised (spelling) them in the van and dumped them in a dumpster behind a business.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;303166]Young 64.3% comp., Montana 63.2%
Young 221.1 total YPG, Montana 219.9
Young 1.63 td per game, Montana 1.53 td per game
Young .633 int per game, Montana .724 int per game
Young 77.8% probowl, Montana 61.5% probowl (seasons of 150+ attempts)

So in every significant catagory Young wins. Of course we won't compare the scrambling since you conceded that. WHile Montana definitely had good figures, Young still wins out at each catagory. This is proof positive that Young is better.[/quote]

You forgot one important stat. Rings.

Montana 4
Young 1

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=skinsWill;303377]This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.[/quote]

How can you even remotely defend this behavior? You disgust me.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;303340]If I have a complete team (good O and good D - neither need be overwhelming), Ten QB's I would take over Young (in no particular order):

Brady
Unitas
Montana
Graham (Otto)
Baugh
Marino
Elway
Manning
Farve
Tarkenton

You put Young on an equal team and anyone of those ten beats him at least 50% of the time.[/quote]
If they would beat him 50% of the time wouldn't that make him just as good winning 50% of the time himself?

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=skinsWill;303377]This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.[/quote]


Comon dude. You've missed the boat! You must be smokin some bad drugs!

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

MODS should we combine the TWO VICK threads

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=skinsWill;303377]This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. [B]I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever[/B], but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.[/quote]
I really don't know what to say about that. You are kidding, right?

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=skinsWill;303377]This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.[/quote]

WTF?

:doh:

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;303383]MODS should we combine the TWO VICK threads[/quote]

Merged, because I thought we could all comment from here...

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=skinsWill;303377]This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.[/quote]


[SIZE=3]Brainwashed moron![/SIZE][SIZE=2] i say we put people like you, vick and all these other assholes who fight dogs, in the ring with 2-3 hungry, abused and pissed off pitbulls. then tell how much fun it is.[/SIZE]

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=SkinEmAll;303405][SIZE=3]Brainwashed moron![/SIZE][SIZE=2] i say we put people like you, vick and all these other assholes who fight dogs, in the ring with 2-3 hungry, abused and pissed off pitbulls. then tell how much fun it is.[/SIZE][/quote]


Really, I hate to say it. Not a half bad idea.

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=skinsWill;303377]This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.[/quote]

My nominee for most ridiculous post of 2007....

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=skinsWill;303377]This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.[/quote]

I believe you are sincere in your beliefs, and I think you will find you are in the absolute minority (think 10,000 to 1) if you think this kind of behavior is in any way acceptable.

Dog fighting is a despicable, ditestful, and crude form of sadistic animal abuse and digenerate gambling, nothing more. Not only is it cruel and often fatal for the animals involved, but the presence of trained fighting dogs within society at large presents an extreme danger to the local community. When these animals get loose they routinely kill other dogs, animals, and sometimes people, usually children or the elderly.

I consider your "beautiful" sport evil in the the basest meaning of the word.

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=SkinEmAll;303405][SIZE=3]Brainwashed moron![/SIZE][SIZE=2] i say we put people like you, vick and all these other assholes who fight dogs, in the ring with 2-3 hungry, abused and pissed off pitbulls. then tell how much fun it is.[/SIZE][/quote]

By the way, I totally applaud the use of the personal attack in this case. I'm fine with forum etiquette and all, but sometimes people just deserve it. Moron is about as good a word as I can think of.

Low-life piece of shit would be the next phrase that comes to mind. Get the hell off the site that I love so much, SkinsWill, you effing slimeball.

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=skinsWill;303377]This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.[/quote]
You must be kidding? This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I second the motion for dumbest post this year, probably ever. If you have the desire to see two animals kill/mutilate each other for enjoyment your are an idiot. First off let's explain Bull-baiting or Bear-baiting, it's basically a bull or bear chained down (usually by the neck) and then dogs are sent to attack it. It was outlawed in 1835 in the last remaining places in Europe. It was replaced in many places with dog-fighting, (obviously by the same sick morons). Secondly I've never seen a boxing match (outside of Tyson/Holyfield) where the boxers bite and scratch each others face and neck and the loser usually dies or is "put down". The only reason people fight dogs is they are just plain out sadists, too cowardly or soft to get into UFC or bare-knuckle fights themselves, or for money. I would die before I would let my dog be put into anything remotely resembling this type of barbarism. I'll get off the soap box now, sorry this post just ticked me off.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;303185]No, by my logic Vinny isnt an all time great. He never accomplished anything ever. And I wasnt the one that pused ring aside, I believe you were. [B]"I can see why you would take Marino, he was amazing (no sb ring by the way)," [/B] Going off of your statement I throughout Moons name. If you were willing to accept Marino because of his amazing stats and no ring, I figured Moon too fit that bill. Oh and Moon is in the Hall of Fame, so I must not be the only one to think that he was one of the great QB's to play the game.

Elway did have a 2000 yard rusher when the Denver Broncos won their SB. But what did he have the first 3 times that he lost the SB? And what does Ahman Green have to do with Favre and his stats? Green only played with Favre for 6 season out of Favre's 15 seasons.[/QUOTE]

No sir, it was you that brought it up first:
[b]Also, he started for SF for 8 years and the best that he could do was 1 SB.[/b]
In fact, I said that a ring is not an indicator of a great QB cause you need a team.
Also, I said Moon was a great QB. I just showed he's no Steve Young. The fact that you compared Moon to Marino kinda scares me. No one has stats like Marino. Moon is not even close.
I am failing to see your point about Elway and Favre. You asked me what they had, I told you. Young had Rice, other than that, just like every team, there are a lot of factors. Elway needed a 2000 yard rusher before he could win, and had a losing postseason record until he got that. So again, I'm failing to see your point.

You have to consider Vinny one of the best ever because the stats YOU provided Vinny is a top 10 all time in all of them (6th in 3, and 9th in 1.) You can't use that as a measuring stick then take it back out of convienance. What applies to one, applies to another.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso;303324]Tom Brady is already a better all time quarteback than Steve Young. If you like stats so much you should look at the most powerful stats a QB can have. 12-2 record in the postseason. Nfl record for most consecutive wins in the postseson. 3 rings and he is only halfway through his career. Manning is also already ahead of Young. Brady and Manning could very easily end up#1 and #2 all time.[/QUOTE]

While I will never in a million years doubt that Manning will end up in the top 5, I do doubt Brady will. Brady has played 6 seasons. If his career were to end tomorrow (and you have to take that into consideration when calculating the best ever) he would not even rank top 20. Brady is a product of his sysem. When Belichick leaves after this season, and he will, watch Brady fall. In 5 or 6 years we're going to be talking about how good Brady USED to be. The fact that you discredit Young ,a hall of famer, with a guy that has only been a starter for 6 seasons is crazy.
Both guys still have a little ways to go, but at least Manning is very close.

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[QUOTE=skinsWill;303377]This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.[/QUOTE]

WOW. I am shocked at those comments. There is no way this acceptable. In ANY scenario. There is no "FUN" in it, and there is no way it can be "done properly". I won't go so far as to resort to name calling, that's not me, I allow people their views, but you sir, make me very uncomfortable if you truely beleive this.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;303345]You forgot one important stat. Rings.

Montana 4
Young 1[/QUOTE]

So I guess by that logic Bradshaw is the best of all time too?

Also, I gave him Montana / Marino / and Elway, so while I beleive that Young is better than all of them, I am not forcing that issue. I just have no doubt he's top 5 of all time no matter how you cut it, and he once said he's not even a top 10. Absolutely laughable.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;303427]
Also, I gave him Montana / Marino / and Elway, so while I beleive that Young is better than all of them, I am not forcing that issue. I just have no doubt he's top 5 of all time no matter how you cut it.[/quote]

not top five no way. Brady is better and that lame excuse that it's all Belichik is such a cop out. So if Young is the greatest all time how come only one Super Bowl appearance????? I mean he was on some really good teams and if he is the best ever or even top five why does he have so little to show for it? He was a great QB, but top five only in some stats which really don't mean much without the big game heroics. Brady dominates Young in his post season record. You can have the other stats all day.

Oh and to remain on topic Vick sucks and dog fighting is for fools.

Re: Michael Vick is a Low-Life Piece of S
 

[quote=skinsWill;303377]This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. [B][I]when done right [/I][/B]the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when [B]not done properly[/B] (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.[/quote]

This is a really stupid post. You know why? What happens when one of these dogs gets loose? Too many times children and people are killed. You have got to be kidding me!

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

WOW... thanks guys! and here i thought no-one ever read my posts..... Im gonna say it now b4 anyone else goes ballistic. I was kinda playing devils advocate to creat some discussion to pass the time until the draft.

Now here we go...


Ok so not many people focused on the entire post that i wrote. so let me re-itterate some importnat parts that it seems EVERYONE decided not to read. Like the end where i sad "cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner." yes.. .that means if you beat and starve you dog you as the owner should be beaten and starved. I do not agree with "dogfighting" that is portrayed by society where dogs more often than not get killed in the fight or afterwards if it lost. [B]REAL dogfights[/B] not the ghetto fights that dee-de and jerome have in their basement. They have rules and points, and the owners care about their dogs where they wont let their dogs get severly hurt or killed. Telling a pitt not to fight is like telling a retriever not to retrieve, if its a well trained dog it will listen but it will still WANT to. The only reason i know all this is bc. one of my old roomates was in a REAL dog fighting circut, i felt the same way as many of you. But it wasnt until i saw it for myself that i understood. The owners train their dogs like athletes (the kind of fighting im talking about is more like boxing or UFC witht he way its run) So if any of you have actually seen a REAL dog fight (which i guess none of you have, bc. you would feel the same way as me) you have NO room to speak. Now as far as the personal attacks go, you guys think what you want i couldnt care less, but dont put words in my mouth takes away from what little rebuttle the bunch of you came up with. i never said it was "beautiful" and if your too narrow minded to read EVERYTHING i wrote in the orig. post than perhaps you are the "brainwashed moron" bc. all you know is what you hear from the media, and nothin you experienced for yourself. I really posted that to get some convo going to pass time until the draft. I have a pitt and it will start fight bc. to him its fun, but what do i do when he does? discipline him so he wont do it anymore, but its in nature so he will always try. In closing 90% of dogfighting is cruel and malicious. the other 10% is a sport... Ill try to check back a little sooner this time so i can respond accordingly

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso;303432]not top five no way. Brady is better and that lame excuse that it's all Belichik is such a cop out. [/quote]

No, the "excuse" is he's only played 6 seasons. The "prediction" is that he will falter once Belichik is gone.

[quote]So if Young is the greatest all time how come only one Super Bowl appearance?????[/quote]

So Marino can't be considered the greatest of all time in your mind????

[quote]I mean he was on some really good teams and if he is the best ever or even top five why does he have so little to show for it? He was a great QB, but top five only in some stats which really don't mean much without the big game heroics. [/quote]

Please see other informative posts on this thread like when I said he encountered a dynasty in Dallas etc. I've already explained this. You need to remember this is a TEAM sport. I don't discredit Marino cause he never won any super bowl.

[quote]Brady dominates Young in his post season record. You can have the other stats all day. [/quote]

Only by 3 games, but right now he does, who's to say he doesn't play in 5 more postseason games and loses them all? Like I said, too early for Brady, can't count him yet. 6 seasons is not enough. Yes, Brady has had a GREAT postseason career in his career, but that does not make him a top 5 all time QB. Is Timmy Smith a top 10 all time RB because he had an amazing game? Obviously, no. We need to see how he finishes his career.
I don't think Brady is as good as everyone thinks. Manning is, but Brady isn't. My point will be proven when Belichik retires.

[quote]Oh and to remain on topic Vick sucks and dog fighting is for fools.[/QUOTE]
100% agree.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=skinsWill;303438] [B]REAL dogfights[/B] not the ghetto fights that dee-de and jerome have in their basement. They have rules and points, and the owners care about their dogs where they wont let their dogs get severly hurt or killed. [/QUOTE]

This is what is wrong. There is no way it can be done tastefully, or correctly, or whatever. So I ask you, would you let your child fight like these dogs fight? Of course not, so why would you allow the dogs to do it?
It's ok cause owners stop before they get "severely hurt"???? What? Letting dogs hurt each other is wrong.

Also, the history of the pitbull is a little different that you say by saying he was bred to fight. Yes, from the early 1800's to 1835 they were bred to fight until they were banned. That was a short span of only 35 years. Before and after that, including today, they were used as working dogs. They were used as Livestock workers, employed by police enforcement, used for hearding, and search and rescue missions. Just because some sick humans decided to fight them, doesn't mean that's what they were meant to become. The problem is, people want them to fight, so they TRAIN them to fight. If you do not train them to fight or be vicious, they will be great pets. They were not meant to be fighters and fight other dogs.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

Dogs don't have "fun". It's the pit bull's instinct to fight and to kill if that instinct is brought to the surface by training... they're not enjoying themselves, it's something that is deeply ingrained in their blood.

Regardless, dog fights under any circumstances are disgusting. Call me ignorant, but I'm not willing to try to see the other side of this.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

"The problem is, people want them to fight, so they TRAIN them to fight. If you do not train them to fight or be vicious, they will be great pets. They were not meant to be fighters and fight other dogs."



this is where you are mistaken... do you own a pitt? i do. I also used to be a dog trainer. Pitts are naturally DOG AGGRESSIVE, and do not NATURALLY havea pack mentality. My pitt Riley is by far the best dog ive ever owned and one of the smartest. He loves any person he meets (but does not like it when people hit one another, like i posted b4 my gf. tried to punch me for a joke i made and her caught in his mouth her arm and stared her down, my friends will start slap boxing and he will break them up) he loves cats and wont even think about harming my lizard or snakes. But get another male dog or a dog close to his size and he turns into a different animal. He will at that point start a fight. just so you know i break any fight up b4 it gets started and punish him for starting it.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=skinsWill;303438]WOW... thanks guys! and here i thought no-one ever read my posts..... Im gonna say it now b4 anyone else goes ballistic. I was kinda playing devils advocate to creat some discussion to pass the time until the draft.

Now here we go...


Ok so not many people focused on the entire post that i wrote. so let me re-itterate some importnat parts that it seems EVERYONE decided not to read. Like the end where i sad "cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner." yes.. .that means if you beat and starve you dog you as the owner should be beaten and starved. I do not agree with "dogfighting" that is portrayed by society where dogs more often than not get killed in the fight or afterwards if it lost. [B]REAL dogfights[/B] not the ghetto fights that dee-de and jerome have in their basement. They have rules and points, and the owners care about their dogs where they wont let their dogs get severly hurt or killed. Telling a pitt not to fight is like telling a retriever not to retrieve, if its a well trained dog it will listen but it will still WANT to. The only reason i know all this is bc. one of my old roomates was in a REAL dog fighting circut, i felt the same way as many of you. But it wasnt until i saw it for myself that i understood. The owners train their dogs like athletes (the kind of fighting im talking about is more like boxing or UFC witht he way its run) So if any of you have actually seen a REAL dog fight (which i guess none of you have, bc. you would feel the same way as me) you have NO room to speak. Now as far as the personal attacks go, you guys think what you want i couldnt care less, but dont put words in my mouth takes away from what little rebuttle the bunch of you came up with. i never said it was "beautiful" and if your too narrow minded to read EVERYTHING i wrote in the orig. post than perhaps you are the "brainwashed moron" bc. all you know is what you hear from the media, and nothin you experienced for yourself. I really posted that to get some convo going to pass time until the draft. I have a pitt and it will start fight bc. to him its fun, but what do i do when he does? discipline him so he wont do it anymore, but its in nature so he will always try. In closing 90% of dogfighting is cruel and malicious. the other 10% is a sport... Ill try to check back a little sooner this time so i can respond accordingly[/quote]

Please don't try to justify or clarify your original post. You are dead wrong and your logic sucks. 100% of dogfighting is cruel. Pitts have been bred as aggressive animals, thats true, but a good owner will train and raise his dog in an environment where it will only attack if provoked or in defense of itself or its master. I have a pure-breed Siberian Husky, his breeding makes him a hard worker and he's also part wolf so he will attack (hunt) smaller animals. That doesn't mean I have him pull my lawn mower around the yard or send him afer the neighbor's cat. That's what separates us from animals. Based on your posts I really, for the sake of your dog, hope and pray that you aren't fighting him or planning to fight him. Dogfighting is illegal in all 50 states and a FELONY almost all for a reason, IT IS CRUEL AND INHUMANE. I guess "severly hurt" is a subjective term, would you consider these dogs "severly hurt":
[LEFT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][COLOR=#ffffff]re[URL="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.animalsheltering.org/images/magazine/jul_aug_2006/where_we_stand2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.animalsheltering.org/resource_library/magazine_articles/jul_aug_2006/dogfighting_investigations_where_we_stand.html&h=165&w=260&sz=26&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=InRyTBG0VfcXeM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=112&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddogfighting%2Bscars%2Bhumane%2Bsociety%2B%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG"][IMG]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:InRyTBG0VfcXeM:http://www.animalsheltering.org/images/magazine/jul_aug_2006/where_we_stand2.jpg[/IMG][/URL]ceives a bullet i[IMG]http://www.hsus.org/web-files/Dog/281x144_dog_fight_victim.jpg[/IMG][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][COLOR=#ffffff]n his brain (Brown, 1982, p. 66). [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT]

[URL="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stlawrencevalleyspca.org/assets/images/Victim1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stlawrencevalleyspca.org/html/dogfighting.html&h=377&w=451&sz=105&hl=en&start=27&tbnid=B_EHTW12mYH3SM:&tbnh=106&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddogfighting%2Bscars%2Bhumane%2Bsociety%2B%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN"][IMG]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:B_EHTW12mYH3SM:http://www.stlawrencevalleyspca.org/assets/images/Victim1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


[CENTER][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][COLOR=#cc0033][COLOR=#ff0000]"[I]Of all the creatures, man is the most detestable. Of the entire brood, he is the only one that possesses malice. He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain. The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot.[/I]"--Mark Twain[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/CENTER]


Would it be OK if I inflicted the same kind of damage on you as these dogs have suffered? Please let us know if you plan on fighting your dog, so I can make sure to alert the proper authorities and hopefully you get arrested, convicted and you can find out about cruelty first hand in jail.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

and i can respect that matty... like i said i was trying to spark some conv... and man i think i got more than i bargained for. But i thought te same thing there is NO WAY they enjoy it... and with some of the fights i saw even the dogs that lost were happy, i know dogs, i esp. know pitts and these dog were actually HAPPY (pitts smile when they are happy or enjoying themselves) tails wagging happy as can be... and they were bleeding and had the same look my dog gets after he gets a treat.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

I agree with you slinginsammy that type of cruelty there is no punishment hars or painful enough for in my mind. but not 100% of people who fight dogs treat their dog that way

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=skinsWill;303454]"The problem is, people want them to fight, so they TRAIN them to fight. If you do not train them to fight or be vicious, they will be great pets. They were not meant to be fighters and fight other dogs."



this is where you are mistaken... do you own a pitt? i do. I also used to be a dog trainer. Pitts are naturally DOG AGGRESSIVE, and do not NATURALLY havea pack mentality. My pitt Riley is by far the best dog ive ever owned and one of the smartest. He loves any person he meets (but does not like it when people hit one another, like i posted b4 my gf. tried to punch me for a joke i made and her caught in his mouth her arm and stared her down, my friends will start slap boxing and he will break them up) he loves cats and wont even think about harming my lizard or snakes. But get another male dog or a dog close to his size and he turns into a different animal. He will at that point start a fight. just so you know i break any fight up b4 it gets started and punish him for starting it.[/quote]

I was posting to your last response and didn't see this post. So Thank God you are not planning on fighting your dog. Your dog is obviously an Alpha male who is trying to show dominance over other dogs. I have the same problem with my Siberian Husky, you just have to keep correcting him, but he will always have the tendency, unless you call in the Dog Whisperer.