Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;314223]He had prior to then declared war against us and we knew that he was forming a terror organization but I guess that was not enough. Thats is also why Sudan kicked him out of their counry and he went to Afganistan
[url=http://terrorism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=terrorism&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbs.org%2Fnewshour%2Fterrorism%2Finternational%2Ffatwa_1996.html]About.com: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html[/url][/QUOTE]
OK, if we are gonna play the "What if" game, then lets say that Clinton does take out OBL. What about the infamous "#2" guy? I mean just because you take out OBL does that mean the "cause" is dead? If George Washington was caught by the red coats, does that mean that the American Revolution "cause" is dead? I am in no way comparing OBL and the father of our country, all I am saying is that if you have a group of people that believe deeply in a "cause" then it will be very difficult to stop it....

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=dblanch66;314208]Actually, Bush said he had evidence that Saddam had WMD's. That, if I'm not mistaken, was a LIE. Spin it any way you want.[/quote]
Actually if you remember Colen Powell made that slide presitation to the UN showing what was thought of evidence that Sadam had WMD's. You remember the one's of satalite survalance of Iraq.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;314213]You guys think Fred Thompson will run? What do you think of his chances?

And what about Mike Huckabee? Could he be a sleeper?[/quote]

I think he's going to throw his name in the hat. He'll get a lot of his Hollywood cronies to help him out that's for sure.

I think it's going to be hard to crack the Big Four.

Hillary
Obama
Rudy G.
McCain.

No particular order but these are the hitters so far.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;314223]He had prior to then declared war against us and we knew that he was forming a terror organization but I guess that was not enough. Thats is also why Sudan kicked him out of their counry and he went to Afganistan
[url=http://terrorism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=terrorism&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbs.org%2Fnewshour%2Fterrorism%2Finternational%2Ffatwa_1996.html]About.com: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Like others said, hindsight is 20/20. Do you honestly believe that if Clinton knew then what he knows now he wouldn't have gone after him? Do you think if he knew that he would be responsible for 9/11 and become a major figure in a terror organization he still wouldn't have done something?

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Sammy Baugh Fan;314218]Nope.
:spank:


lol
Just joking man. peace[/QUOTE]

You probably wouldn't vote for me and there a lot of people out there who only want people who believe in God, Jesus and the Holey Spirit to hold public office. These same people would rather elect a homosexual than an agnostic/atheist. The possibility of electing a homosexual is highly unlikely of course.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=12thMan;314231]I think he's going to throw his name in the hat. He'll get a lot of his Hollywood cronies to help him out that's for sure.

I think it's going to be hard to crack the Big Four.

Hillary
Obama
Rudy G.
McCain.

No particular order but these are the hitters so far.[/quote]

I think Romney has to be in the discussion too, though I'm not sure him being a Mormon would help him in the long run.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=saden1;314232]Like others said, hindsight is 20/20. Do you honestly believe that if Clinton knew then what he knows now he wouldn't have gone after him? Do you think if he knew that he would be responsible for 9/11 and become a major figure in a terror organization he still wouldn't have done something?[/quote]
No I'm sure if he had hine site he would have done more, but he did nothing when we where attacked on several occasions. We even had our Navy attacked and praticly nothing was done. Clinton was afraid to take any actions which may have droped his pole numbers and I feel thats one reason he did not go after Bin Laden. Look I'm not totaly against everything Clinto did as president and he did some good stuff for this country. I just think he was more worried about being popular than being a leader and in no way do I blame him for 9/11.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

IMHO, Clinton [I]may[/I] have been reckless in failing to take steps against OBL, but the flip-side of the coin is that Bush was reckless in taking too many ill-conceived steps in the war on terrorism.

I actually strongly oppose withdrawing from Iraq, but I was also firmly against going into the country in the first instance. Even if Saddam had WMDs, and I thought he did, I didn't think the war was our best move when there were already a lot of "bad guys" in Afghanistan. In that regard, I think Bush tried to do too many things at once in a half-assed way to the detriment of our troops and our effort against global terrorism.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=firstdown;314112]Don't you think the word tortur is being thrown around pretty loosly. Talk to some of our men that have been tortured and they will tell you what real torture is. What was done was wrong but I'm not sure torture is the correct term to be used.[/quote]

Who would stand up the best to physical torture among the current political figures? We know McCain has walked the walk. He held up magnificently yet still feels guilt about what he did. That's hard core.

I think Cheney would be a tough nut to crack but would probably have a heart attack very quickly.

Hillary might be the meanest of all. I bet you would have to really go beyond the pale to get her to break. She would be spitting and cursing at you as you turned the handle.

Mike Huckabee was a Baptist Minister so he is no stranger to discomfort. I think he would do well. The government made a study of Korean POWs and found that Fundamentalist Christians were among the best at withstanding torture. They have to be if you think about it.

Al Gore would, IMO, talk immediately. Ditto John Edwards. Mitt Romney. President Bush.

Bill Clinton would talk immediately but nothing he said would be true. He'd have his interrogators eating out of the palm of his hand, backslapping and laughing, all with fantastic lies.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

Awesome post 70Chip and nice analysis! But, you should have added that Al Gore would keep talking and talking and talking until his interrogators would be forced to shove a soaked rag down his throat. As for Bush, he'd talk, but nothing he would say would make any sense.

With all due respect to Gore and Bush fans, I'm sorry but I cannot believe that our political system pooped out those two guys as the best possible candidates for the most important job in the world.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;314307]Awesome post 70Chip and nice analysis! But, you should have added that Al Gore would keep talking and talking and talking until his interrogators would be forced to shove a soaked rag down his throat. As for Bush, he'd talk, but nothing he would say would make any sense.

With all due respect to Gore and Bush fans, I'm sorry but I cannot believe that our political system pooped out those two guys as the best possible candidates for the most important job in the world.[/quote]


That's hilarious. Gore would drone on and on. ".. and that was the same year that I was the inspiration for the Ryan O'Neill character in 'Love Story'." Or, "I don't know if you can say I invented Velveeta Cheese, but I certainly played an integral role."

Bush would be trying to pretend he knew something. Making things up. Just like in "Our Man in Havana" by Graham Greene.

I'm going to have you punch up my posts from now on, Sherrif. That's great stuff.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;314307]With all due respect to Gore and Bush fans, I'm sorry but I cannot believe that our political system pooped out those two guys as the best possible candidates for the most important job in the world.[/quote]

Very sad indeed

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;314263]I think Romney has to be in the discussion too, though I'm not sure him being a Mormon would help him in the long run.[/quote]

No doubt. I think he's a viable candidate. Unfortunately for him, I think the Mormon thing will be a deal breaker for some.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;314332]No doubt. I think he's a viable candidate. Unfortunately for him, I think the Mormon thing will be a deal breaker for some.[/QUOTE]

He has the money, the looks, as good of an experience as any governor out there but the whole Mormon thing is going to be a huge drag. Not to mention his flip flopping. I will say this though, the Mormons I know have been upstanding people. The guy who gave me my first real job was Mormon. They do a lot of good things around the world and I do applicate the fact that they go on 2 year missions to places no one else dares to go.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=saden1;314224]I'm not out to change your mind but I found your post pretty funny.[/QUOTE]

lol
Yea to some it may sound like an oxymoron but history shows that peace comes with overwhelming force.

I pray for "peace". I wished and prayed for peace in your life which is what my salutation infered.

As a Marine I have seen history prove to me as an American that peace comes from overwhelming force that handles that poor bastard trying to take away your peace.

My peace, as yours, is a direct result of America stomping the chit out of people that jack with our peace and freedom.
Joke about it, complain about it but it's a fact.

peace

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;314210]Thanks. I actually went to his web site. Doesn't look like a serious contender, but you never know.[/QUOTE]
It's cool that you went to his site, 12th.
Most likely not a serious contender which is a shame. He just probably won't have the money to be viable. However, he is very well spoken, un-rehearsed and sharp. He scared Guliani, who in my opinion is a joke. He won't win. There are too many pictures of him in a dress. hee hee hee.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=saden1;314348]He has the money, the looks, as good of an experience as any governor out there but the whole Mormon thing is going to be a huge drag. Not to mention his flip flopping. I will say this though, the Mormons I know have been upstanding people. The guy who gave me my first real job was Mormon. They do a lot of good things around the world and I do applicate the fact that they go on 2 year missions to places no one else dares to go.[/QUOTE]

I guess I'm naive but why is it/should it be an issue? For all our world dominance, we sure can be extremely backwards sometimes. Example: We're making a big fuss about a possible female president. All across the world nations have women as their leaders.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

Just curious, but how has this thread not been locked? If someone attacked a democrat, then this would have been closed quickly. But because it's Bush (and apparently politically correct to oppose ANYTHING Bush does) this thread is still allowed to run free?

Either we open up this site for all types of political debate, or none.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=jsarno;314451]Just curious, but how has this thread not been locked? If someone attacked a democrat, then this would have been closed quickly. But because it's Bush (and apparently politically correct to oppose ANYTHING Bush does) this thread is still allowed to run free?

Either we open up this site for all types of political debate, or none.[/quote]

Things have been pretty civil, why would you want to lock this?

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;314435]I guess I'm naive but why is it/should it be an issue? For all our world dominance, we sure can be extremely backwards sometimes. Example: We're making a big fuss about a possible female president. All across the world nations have women as their leaders.[/QUOTE]

Beats me, but if I had to guess I would guess that some Christians are more equal than others. Americans backwards, nooo! I would be really surprised if anyone in here can name 5 female who have been or currently are state leaders without looking it up. Hell, make it simple, just name the nations they led/lead.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;314451]Just curious, but how has this thread not been locked? If someone attacked a democrat, then this would have been closed quickly. But because it's Bush (and apparently politically correct to oppose ANYTHING Bush does) this thread is still allowed to run free?

Either we open up this site for all types of political debate, or none.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. I don't care for the unprovoked attacks on Bush that occur quite frequently on this site "Spurrier was a lousy coach...it's like having Bush run the country" Shit like that that has no bearing on the discussion.

In this case/thread, I think it's been a civil discussion. And people here (myself included) have tried to point out that Democrats should not be immune from critique.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;314451]Just curious, but how has this thread not been locked? If someone attacked a democrat, then this would have been closed quickly. But because it's Bush (and apparently politically correct to oppose ANYTHING Bush does) this thread is still allowed to run free?

Either we open up this site for all types of political debate, or none.[/QUOTE]

You want to slam democrats?!?! Well, lets slam them!!! They are spineless and weak. They have the majority in congress, and the way they got it was by pushing "End the War", "Bring our Troops home", and "We want a timeline..." So, go back a week and the President wants more money to fund the war. Here is the perfect oppertunity for the Democrats to step up and say "NO!!, Unless we get a timeline..." But what do they do? They give in and give the money reguardless. So they basicly go back on what got them in office and the majority. They were too afraid of what the president would say about them if they said "NO", and with the long weekend, they would have had to stay and defend themselves. And why? Why worry about what the president will say because you know what? He still said what he wanted to anyway... So in the end it was a win, win for good ol' GW....

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;314461]You want to slam democrats?!?! Well, lets slam them!!! They are spineless and weak. They have the majority in congress, and the way they got it was by pushing "End the War", "Bring our Troops home", and "We want a timeline..." So, go back a week and the President wants more money to fund the war. Here is the perfect oppertunity for the Democrats to step up and say "NO!!, Unless we get a timeline..." But what do they do? They give in and give the money reguardless. So they basicly go back on what got them in office and the majority. They were too afraid of what the president would say about them if they said "NO", and with the long weekend, they would have had to stay and defend themselves. And why? Why worry about what the president will say because you know what? He still said what he wanted to anyway... So in the end it was a win, win for good ol' GW....[/QUOTE]

Right on the money. No convictions, no ideas, and much like simple automata. If I were 3 months pregnant with the Democrats I would abort them.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=saden1;314456]Beats me, but if I had to guess I would guess that some Christians are more equal than others. Americans backwards, nooo! I would be really surprised if anyone in here can name 5 female who have been or currently are state leaders without looking it up. Hell, make it simple, just name the nations they led/lead.[/quote]


Scout's honor off the top of my head:

Margaret Thatcher UK
Indirha Gandhi India
Golda Meier Israel
Benizhir Butto India?
Corazon Aquino The Phillipines
Angela Merkel Germany

That's all I've got.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

Dennis Kucinich in the Washington Post on the articles of impeachment he introduced against Dick Cheney:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/24/AR2007042401542.html]Kucinich Introduces Impeachment Articles Against Cheney - washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;314481]Scout's honor off the top of my head:

Margaret Thatcher UK
Indirha Gandhi India
Golda Meier Israel
Benizhir Butto India?
Corazon Aquino The Phillipines
Angela Merkel Germany

That's all I've got.[/QUOTE]

Bhutto is Pakistan, and to add to that list here are some more woman world leaders:

Michelle Jeria Chile
Helen Clark New Zealand
Tarja Halonen Finland

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=saden1;314348]He has the money, the looks, as good of an experience as any governor out there but the whole Mormon thing is going to be a huge drag. Not to mention his flip flopping. I will say this though, the Mormons I know have been upstanding people. The guy who gave me my first real job was Mormon. They do a lot of good things around the world and I do applicate the fact that they go on 2 year missions to places no one else dares to go.[/quote]


I agree, no knock on the Mormons at all. I just think when it comes down to it, people will lean toward what they're most familiar with. But I have no doubts that Romney is a stand up guy.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=saden1;314480]Right on the money. No convictions, no ideas, and much like simple automata. If I were 3 months pregnant with the Democrats I would abort them.[/QUOTE]

Damn that's harsh.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;314461]You want to slam democrats?!?! Well, lets slam them!!! They are spineless and weak. They have the majority in congress, and the way they got it was by pushing "End the War", "Bring our Troops home", and "We want a timeline..." So, go back a week and the President wants more money to fund the war. Here is the perfect oppertunity for the Democrats to step up and say "NO!!, Unless we get a timeline..." But what do they do? They give in and give the money reguardless. So they basicly go back on what got them in office and the majority. They were too afraid of what the president would say about them if they said "NO", and with the long weekend, they would have had to stay and defend themselves. And why? Why worry about what the president will say because you know what? He still said what he wanted to anyway... So in the end it was a win, win for good ol' GW....[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, this is true. Which is why I don't classify myself as either elephant or donkey. I just support whoever seems to be the most intelligent, well thought out, well spoken and strong candidate. Guliani...uh...no.
McCain...nutso. Hilary....uh...no. Obama...maybe..jury's still out. Edwards....I like him and he seems to have a plan at least but I just can't see him as president. VP maybe. Which leaves Ron Paul. He is the best candidate and hopefully his campaign will pick up steam.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Redskins8588;314461]You want to slam democrats?!?! Well, lets slam them!!! They are spineless and weak. They have the majority in congress, and the way they got it was by pushing "End the War", "Bring our Troops home", and "We want a timeline..." So, go back a week and the President wants more money to fund the war. Here is the perfect oppertunity for the Democrats to step up and say "NO!!, Unless we get a timeline..." But what do they do? They give in and give the money reguardless. So they basicly go back on what got them in office and the majority. They were too afraid of what the president would say about them if they said "NO", and with the long weekend, they would have had to stay and defend themselves. And why? Why worry about what the president will say because you know what? He still said what he wanted to anyway... So in the end it was a win, win for good ol' GW....[/quote]

Well it's not just as cut and dry as that. Yes, most Dems voted in favor of continued funding of the War...this time around. Funds run out in September and many expect this to be Bush's last leg if things don't improve. In fact, he has to provide lawmakers with a progress report in July. So in essence, the Repubs bought another four months with the vote.

Another thing, if you look closely at the Bill there were some very important domestic spending provisions that will reach the President's desk which he's expected to sign. Namely an increase in the Federal minimum wage to $7.25/hr, relief money for Gulf Coast hurricane recovery efforts, and a few others.

While it was a setback for the Dems, I think it's very temporary.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;314515]Damn that's harsh.[/QUOTE]

I was being a bit melodramatic. The Dems really do grind my gear though.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=saden1;314597]I was being a bit melodramatic. The Dems really do grind my gear though.[/QUOTE]

No I know. I meant to follow my post with an "lol," I knew you were joking and it was funny but harsh.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;313787]For those of you who didn't learn it in middle school, impeachment is a tag only used in the ruling of criminial cases against the president. That means he actually has to do something against the law. Gross incompetance is not against the law (as this thread will soon prove).[/quote]

Where have you been. Bush has broken literary dozens of laws, from lying to Congress to spying on Americans without warrants. I could fill up this page with Bush's crimes. But why bother. It's enough to say he waged aggressive war, which is an international crime by agreements he was sworn to uphold by oath of office, and then added to that by authorizing torture, a violation of both international and American law.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=angryssg;313793]I have read every post and have a little to say about everything.
Crazyhorse, why is it silly for Bush to denounce Iran?
Smootsmack, I agree.
Robbh4413, I second that.
Gtripp, you're onto something.
Sadden you are correct, but should have elaborated a little bit more.
Dblanche66, wars have been started over many stupid things throughout the years. The Cold war was a competition between Capitalism and Communism. The crusades were over religion and possible riches.
70chip, the only thing that the democrats would end by cutting off the money is the lives of those servicesmembers who would still be stuck over there. Now they would be there without food, and ammunition. So they will continue supporting it financially not because of the political aspect, but because of the threat of iminent danger to American lives without funding.[/quote]

Bush is denouncing Iran for detaining people without charges. Very few of the people Bush has detained in Gitmo, at Abu Grab, in the Salt Pit of Afghanistan, or in secret prisons in Europe have been charged with anything even after years of detention. Pot calling the kettle black.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;314821]Bush is denouncing Iran for detaining people without charges. Very few of the people Bush has detained in Gitmo, at Abu Grab, in the Salt Pit of Afghanistan, or in secret prisons in Europe have been charged with anything even after years of detention. Pot calling the kettle black.[/QUOTE]

Could you provide a link of his denouncing Iran for detaining people without charges, and of people being detained by US with no charges brought against them?

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;314823]Could you provide a link of his denouncing Iran for detaining people without charges, and of people being detained by US with no charges brought against them?[/QUOTE]

Not to quote myself. But I need to clarify "no charges" I mean no valid reason to consider bringing charges

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;313800]FCK IRAN! THIS IS THE DUMBEST THREAD I'VE EVER POSTED ON! I'm sure if you don't like what the PRESIDENT is doing with those TARDS in iran, they've got plenty of room for you.[/quote]


Do you support hypocracy from authority? Did you support Clinton's hypocracy? Do you really want people who don't like what the president is doing to be imprisoned? Indefinately, or for how long?

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=firstdown;313813]So I guess your saying that the people we are holding that were fighting for the taliban are innocent people? I have not heard about what your posting about so maybe you should have added a link.[/quote]

Bush denounced Iran on national television and it played repeatedly on all major channels and on virtually every news program.

The people being held are not being held as Taliban or prisoners of war. They are being held without charges as suspected terrorists. We don't whether they're guilty or not. Not only are there no charges, there are almost no trials.

Most of the people seized in Afghanistan and Irag were picked up in blind sweeps (they were picked up at random and no evidence was collected). The idea was to extract information from the torture of people at random.

If people are innocent until proven guilty. Yes. Bush is detaining hundreds, maybe thousands of innocent people, including Canadians and Americans.
After 911, Ashcroft conducted blind sweeps of American Muslims and imprisoned them without charges in New York.

Bush and his people are a disgrace to our country. No doubt about it.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;313848]Clinton was impeached by the House but was acquitted by the Senate.[/quote]

An impreachment is a trial, not a conviction.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=12thMan;313864]I was actually looking at that same link myself.

I guess what I'm [I]really [/I]asking is, since the "impeachment" process didn't get approved in both chambers, is it historically correct to say Clinton was impeached?

Furthermore will historians consider Bill Clinton an impeached President or is it a matter of interpreting the Constitution?[/quote]

He was impeached, which only means he was tried. He wasn't convicted so wasn't removed from office.