Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

To blame Suisam is nonsense, I told a friend we needed a TD at that point a field goal would not do it, our line as usual couldn't open holes when a D is playing short yardage football, granted we had a lot of backups in there the starters haven't faired any better in those type of situations, the offensive line needs to be over hauled with the exception of Samuels.

We lose 35-17 if Suisam makes that kick. The plays that killed us were Sellars and his block in the back on Rocks kick off return which would have put us on the Seattle 25 instead of our own 40 which lead to Collins throwing that deep ball, and Moss with his head up his ASS all game dropping ball after ball, what an absolute joke on the INT!

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Ok well I can see that there is no way I can convince you guys about Suisham. So we can agree to disagree on that one. I was merely trying to point out that I watched the Redskins and Suisham all year as well and he appears to be the same PK we had in Dallas when were deep in the quagmire of our kicking woes. But I admire your patience with him.

To answer your question SmootSmack, Suisham choked early in San Francisco, he got released in training camp.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Hey, if 83% and 29 FGs = a kicking quagmire, bring it on. We've seen much, much worse over the years here. We've gone through kicker after kicker including dumping David Akers prematurely.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

One thing I wanted add....

I think special teams as a whole killed alot of our momentum with all those penalties. Rock kept getting great returns that put us in good field position. Also, the coverage wasn't that great either. Seattle won the field position game.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Just like many of us said before the game, Seattle had to play the game of their lives and we had to play at least "equal" to the past four weeks before that.

Seattle held up it's end of the bargain, we just crapped the bed. It happens and it just so happened it was the playoffs.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

OK, I keep reading about how awful Suisham has been - a choker from this Dallas guy. Now, start talking facts instead of what you think is fact. Your first problem is the San Francisco take. He wasn't even there in the preseason. When released from Dallas he was signed to the practice squad for one week because Joe Nedney was hurt. He did not play AT ALL and was released after the week because Nedney was OK. So, that was a real choke??? Now, in Dallas, he did not even have a chance to kick many field goals - in fact he was originally on the team as a kick-off specialist for Vanderjagt. And in the revolving door that was there at the time - how could any kicker do well? I would say that if Folk had been in that same soap opera with the Parcell's mind games, then his performance may not have been so good either.
Should Suisham have missed - of course not. But, lets look at the whole picture. That was the first pressure kick he missed in Washington. How many games did he actually help Washington win this year?? This was the FIRST game that you could tie him to the loss. The Redskins DID NOT PLAY like they SHOULD have won that game. COULD THEY HAVE - SURE. BUT, how do you hang the inept play for most of the game on the kicker. Oh, and by the way - your boy has not proven himself in playoff competition yet either. Maybe he will shank the ball similar to what he did two weeks ago on a gimme field goal.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Should have know this was going to turn into a Cowboys fan bashing a Redskins kicker. Guess there is no escaping that here.

Was just sharing observations is all. If you are happy with Suisham, well I am happy for you. As I said earlier...we agree to disagree. Why don't we just leave it at that? I for one could not be happier that he is on your roster.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

I'm not buying. I personally would prefer to keep both guys unless a proven vet becomes available. Suisham had a pretty good year and so did Frosty. Are either of them playing as well as I would like them to? No, but they're better than our known alternatives.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;403609]Ok well I can see that there is no way I can convince you guys about Suisham. So we can agree to disagree on that one. I was merely trying to point out that I watched the Redskins and Suisham all year as well and he appears to be the same PK we had in Dallas when were deep in the quagmire of our kicking woes. But I admire your patience with him.

To answer your question SmootSmack, Suisham choked early in San Francisco, he got released in training camp.[/QUOTE]

As MattyK pointed out, Suisham made 83% of his kicks. Nick Folk, a Pro Bowler, made 83% of his kicks. Suisham also made 3 more FGs than Folk. Still think Suisham is a bum?

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;403784]As MattyK pointed out, Suisham made 83% of his kicks. Nick Folk, a Pro Bowler, made 83% of his kicks. Suisham also made 3 more FGs than Folk. Still think Suisham is a bum?[/QUOTE]

To be fair, the real difference is that Folk made 83.87% of his field goals, whereas Suisham made a mere 82.85%

Clearly Folk is 1.02% better than Suisham and far more deserving of the Pro Bowl nomination.

:doh:

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;403743]Should have know this was going to turn into a Cowboys fan bashing a Redskins kicker. Guess there is no escaping that here.

Was just sharing observations is all. If you are happy with Suisham, well I am happy for you. As I said earlier...we agree to disagree. Why don't we just leave it at that? I for one could not be happier that he is on your roster.[/quote]

For your sake I hope Folk nails all his playoff kicks, or we're going to be on you like stink on shit. ;)

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;403609]Ok well I can see that there is no way I can convince you guys about Suisham. So we can agree to disagree on that one. I was merely trying to point out that I watched the Redskins and Suisham all year as well and he appears to be the same PK we had in Dallas when were deep in the quagmire of our kicking woes. But I admire your patience with him.

To answer your question SmootSmack, Suisham choked early in San Francisco, he got released in training camp.[/quote]
I have to call you on this one. SS played in 6 game for Dallas 3 in 05 and 3 in 06. He had a grand total of 6 kicks and made 4 of them. The two he missed were one between 30-39 and one between 40-49 so not much there to look at and we do not know the circumstances of the kicks. He does not have any recorded kicks for the 49's. If I'm correct didn't he boot that kick for us after ST recovered that blocked FG last year for us to beat Dallas?

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

I do not know what Sellers did the days before playoff in Seattle but he sure did not have his head in the game at ALL

QUOTE=SmootSmack;403349]Absolutely agree with that. Don't forget Sellers being out of place and forcing a timeout[/QUOTE]

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Right before Suisham got ready to kick, I told my friends, "Man, I hope he doesn't shank it to the left." Dang it!

I don't blame Suisham at all. You know who I do blame? Tom freakin Cruise. When they showed him inside that suite I started yelling, "Oh crap! Why the hell is Tom Cruise there? Bad mojo! Bad mojo! Get him outta there!"

Why Tom, why? You killed our football dreams. Oh how I hate him.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=Lady Brave;403920]Right before Suisham got ready to kick, I told my friends, "Man, I hope he doesn't shank it to the left." Dang it!

I don't blame Suisham at all. You know who I do blame? Tom freakin Cruise. When they showed him inside that suite I started yelling, "Oh crap! Why the hell is Tom Cruise there? Bad mojo! Bad mojo! Get him outta there!"

Why Tom, why? You killed our football dreams. Oh how I hate him.[/quote]

So are you saying that Tom Cruise is to the Redskins what Jessica Simpson is to the Cowboys?

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

If I'm correct didn't he boot that kick for us after ST recovered that blocked FG last year for us to beat Dallas?[/QUOTE]

no that wasnt him

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

It has nothing to do with you being a Dallas fan. It has to do with facts and statitistics - nothing else. If I didn't know the facts, I would think this guy was 17 - 35 instead of 29 - 35 and blew every pressure kick he had this season. Well, this is not the facts. He blew one meaningful kick this year. Now, unfortunately it was in a playoff game and did affect momentum - but the same could be said for numerous other players in the game.
With your reasoning - are you going on the Titans forums and calling Bironis a choker and he should be released. He missed a 38-yard field goal in the third quarter that could of brought them back - another momentum changer?? Well of course not - he did not play for Dallas at one time.
Have you ever followed the route most of the kickers in the NFL take. They very rarely stick with the first team they play with - there seems to be a learning curve. (Akers, Bironis, Gould and the list goes on and on)
Compare the kicking stats of Folk vs Suisham in the two games they played head to head. Compare the kick off distance and field goals. I do not see any difference. I am not running Folk down - I think he is a decent kicker. But, let's be real - would he be a pro-bowl kicker if he did not play for the first place Dallas Cowboys. He did not have even the second best stats in the NFC. Robbie Gould should have been the Pro-Bowl kicker - he lead the NFC in percentage and kick-off yardage.
We will see how Folk handles the pressure of the playoffs. Of course, if he misses one I'm sure you will be calling for his head. Maybe you can bring Vanderjagt back - after all he has the stats you are looking for - the most accurate kicker in NFL history!!

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

I have no problem with Suisam as our long term kicker, but Frost has to go, is there a bigger choke artist than him at the punting position? Draft that kid from LSU he has a cannon for a leg.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=qb1717;404264]It has nothing to do with you being a Dallas fan. It has to do with facts and statitistics - nothing else. If I didn't know the facts, I would think this guy was 17 - 35 instead of 29 - 35 and blew every pressure kick he had this season. Well, this is not the facts. He blew one meaningful kick this year. Now, unfortunately it was in a playoff game and did affect momentum - but the same could be said for numerous other players in the game.
With your reasoning - are you going on the Titans forums and calling Bironis a choker and he should be released. He missed a 38-yard field goal in the third quarter that could of brought them back - another momentum changer?? Well of course not - he did not play for Dallas at one time.
Have you ever followed the route most of the kickers in the NFL take. They very rarely stick with the first team they play with - there seems to be a learning curve. (Akers, Bironis, Gould and the list goes on and on)
Compare the kicking stats of Folk vs Suisham in the two games they played head to head. Compare the kick off distance and field goals. I do not see any difference. I am not running Folk down - I think he is a decent kicker. But, let's be real - would he be a pro-bowl kicker if he did not play for the first place Dallas Cowboys. He did not have even the second best stats in the NFC. Robbie Gould should have been the Pro-Bowl kicker - he lead the NFC in percentage and kick-off yardage.
We will see how Folk handles the pressure of the playoffs. Of course, if he misses one I'm sure you will be calling for his head. Maybe you can bring Vanderjagt back - after all he has the stats you are looking for - the most accurate kicker in NFL history!![/quote]

If your sole connection to the Pro Bowl and the playoffs is stats, then you are missing much of the game.

A lot of it is situational, and how a player performs in all conditions of play. Is Folk the most stat-happy accurate kicker in the NFL or even the NFC? Nope. But Folk nailed down his Pro-Bowl selection in Monday night game in Buffalo. He hit 2 consectutive 53-yarders to win the game in a pressure cooker situation in front of a nationally televised audience with the game on the line and his teams (at the time) undefeated record on the line. He answered the call. And it was a game-winning kick in what many sportswriters tabbed as the best MNF game in the last decade.

There are a small handful of PK's in the league that could have pulled that off.

Now I know and am willing to accept a ton of crap from you guys if Folk does miss a crucial field goal in the playoffs.

Just as long as you guys are prepared for a healthy dose of "I told ya' so" when he does well.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;404348]Now I know and am willing to accept a ton of crap from you guys if Folk does miss a crucial field goal in the playoffs.

Just as long as you guys are prepared for a healthy dose of "I told ya' so" when he does well.[/QUOTE]

What about Suisham? Do you still think he's not any good? BTW, he has made some clutch kicks in his brief tenure as a Washington Redskin.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;404452]What about Suisham? Do you still think he's not any good? BTW, he has made some clutch kicks in his brief tenure as a Washington Redskin.[/quote]

I have always said that maybe what Suisham needed was a change of scenery, and maybe Washington is the place. He has done better since arriving in DC.

But along those same lines I have also said (way before the Seattle game) that I believe that Suisham was not a pressure kicker.

Yes he has made some clutch kicks since arriving, but what was the scenario? Was it a nationally televised game against a division rival? Was it a playoff game?

Kickers are SUPPOSED to make that clutch kick for you. It is the ELITE kickers (Vinateri, Elam etc.) that makes those kicks when everything is on the line.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;404348]If your sole connection to the Pro Bowl and the playoffs is stats, then you are missing much of the game.

A lot of it is situational, and how a player performs in all conditions of play. Is Folk the most stat-happy accurate kicker in the NFL or even the NFC? Nope. But Folk nailed down his Pro-Bowl selection in Monday night game in Buffalo. He hit 2 consectutive 53-yarders to win the game in a pressure cooker situation in front of a nationally televised audience with the game on the line and his teams (at the time) undefeated record on the line. He answered the call. And it was a game-winning kick in what many sportswriters tabbed as the best MNF game in the last decade.

There are a small handful of PK's in the league that could have pulled that off.

Now I know and am willing to accept a ton of crap from you guys if Folk does miss a crucial field goal in the playoffs.

Just as long as you guys are prepared for a healthy dose of "I told ya' so" when he does well.[/quote]

Folk will miss a crucial kick sooner or later... all kickers do, even the great ones.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

So what are you saying. Folk is a clutch kicker and Suisham is not??? I honestly believe neither one has proven they are clutch in the NFL. They have not had enough kicks. But, on the other hand, I don't think you can say one has and one has not. Based on performance, both have shown potential. As I said before, Suisham came through 3 - 4 times this year to have a direct impact on the winning of a football game. (OT/end of game) He missed a chip shot in the third quarter - momentum changer/one he must make. Now, I know Folk made that Monday nighter - well done! It was in great weather conditions. I would say that Suisham has made a lot of FG's in some terrible conditions. I don't think Folk could say the same. Kicking 8 games in Dallas is a lot different than kicking 8 games in Washington from a weather standpoint.
How many other game winning or crucial kicks did Folk make this year?? I ask this only as I can not state the facts. He has yet to play a playoff game - although, again, they will be all on good weather conditons typically.
My point is this - they both have a lot more to prove. But you started this argument by basically saying Suisham was a bum and a choker because that is what he has proven. THIS IS NOT THE CASE!! The facts are this - he has been good in clutch kicks, he blew one in the playoffs that he should have made, but so have many other good kickers at some point in their careers, his kickoffs need to be more consistent, he made 29 field goals of 35, tied for 5th in the NFL for field goals and averaged 83% which is similar to Folk. The one area I think Folk has shown more consistency is kick-offs but then the weather conditions have to be considered. Head to head this season they kicked off about even in yardage.
Hopefully, Folk will get some more chances to prove your point.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=qb1717;404531][b]So what are you saying. Folk is a clutch kicker and Suisham is not???[/b] I honestly believe neither one has proven they are clutch in the NFL. They have not had enough kicks. But, on the other hand, I don't think you can say one has and one has not. Based on performance, both have shown potential. As I said before, Suisham came through 3 - 4 times this year to have a direct impact on the winning of a football game. (OT/end of game) He missed a chip shot in the third quarter - momentum changer/one he must make. Now, I know Folk made that Monday nighter - well done! It was in great weather conditions. I would say that Suisham has made a lot of FG's in some terrible conditions. I don't think Folk could say the same. Kicking 8 games in Dallas is a lot different than kicking 8 games in Washington from a weather standpoint.
How many other game winning or crucial kicks did Folk make this year?? I ask this only as I can not state the facts. He has yet to play a playoff game - although, again, they will be all on good weather conditons typically.
My point is this - they both have a lot more to prove. But you started this argument by basically saying Suisham was a bum and a choker because that is what he has proven. THIS IS NOT THE CASE!! The facts are this - he has been good in clutch kicks, he blew one in the playoffs that he should have made, but so have many other good kickers at some point in their careers, his kickoffs need to be more consistent, he made 29 field goals of 35, tied for 5th in the NFL for field goals and averaged 83% which is similar to Folk. The one area I think Folk has shown more consistency is kick-offs but then the weather conditions have to be considered. Head to head this season they kicked off about even in yardage.
Hopefully, Folk will get some more chances to prove your point.[/quote]

No not saying Folk is a clutch kicker, Folk is a rookie, but he has shown capabilties of being that type of kicker, but he has not proven it yet. The Monday night game at Buffalo shows that he may have those qualities. Suisham has never shown that.

Suisham would miss kicks during pre-game with Parcells watching.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;404521]But along those same lines I have also said (way before the Seattle game) that I believe that Suisham was not a pressure kicker.

Yes he has made some clutch kicks since arriving, but what was the scenario? Was it a nationally televised game against a division rival? Was it a playoff game? [/QUOTE]

I believe he kicked the 50 yarder to beat Dallas in D.C. last season and kicked the FG in OT against Miami this year. I'm sure I can think of others if you want me to.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;404593]I believe he kicked the 50 yarder to beat Dallas in D.C. last season and kicked the FG in OT against Miami this year. I'm sure I can think of others if you want me to.[/quote]

You just answered the whole question. He kicked a 50 yarder to beat Dallas in a REGULAR SEASON home game.

But he shanked a 30-yard chip shot on the road in the play-offs. I think you just made my case.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;404632]You just answered the whole question. He kicked a 50 yarder to beat Dallas in a REGULAR SEASON home game.

But he shanked a 30-yard chip shot on the road in the play-offs. I think you just made my case.[/QUOTE]

So, based on one missed FG you can say the guy isn't clutch? Is one kick an accurate sample in your mind? If Folk misses ANY kicks under 45 yards in the regular season be prepared to say that he isn't clutch.

Finally, I'm not sure how you can say: (i) with regard to Folk, he is a pressue kicker .... just look at the Buffalo game; [B]and[/B] (ii) with regard to Suisham, you can't look at his kicks during the regular season because the regular season does not reveal whether someone is a pressure kicker.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Ok, Folk may have those qualities based on one kick on Monday Night Football - which was the REGULAR SEASON. What about the kicks that Suisham made in OT on first down in the first game - you think that is not a pressure kick from 46 yards on FIRST DOWN in OVERTIME?? You think kicking 5 field goals in a game in which the Redskins could not score TD's is not pressure. You think that going 8-8 down the stretch including 3 -3 in nasty conditions in NY (also a 50 yarder) where the Redskins were basically in playoff conditions the last four games. Heck, the Cowboys have had the division locked up for a while. Folk has not had a real pressure kick - what ONE THIS YEAR. So I think that according to your standards, he has made pressure kicks in the last four games of the season in which it really was do or die (PLAYOFF SITUATION) for the Redskins. Suisham has had to bail out the team when they could not score TD's. Folk has not had to do the same for the Cowboys who have had the ability to score more. As far as missing kicks in front of Parcells, cmon. What were you counting his stats in warm-ups. Besides - according to you it matters what you do in the game or playoffs not the regular season let alone WARMUPS?? And I think you must admit, Parcells handled that whole kicking situation ridiculously. How many kickers in the League would have flourished under that situation. I would be a betting man that if Folk came in with those exact same conditions, he would have been affected as well. So we seem to keep going in circles. WHY CAN"T YOU ADMIT THAT SUISHAM HAS MADE PRESSURE KICKS AND HAS SHOWN POTENTIAL. ARE YOU BASING EVERYTHING ON ONE MISSED KICK IN THE PLAYOFFS THAT WHILE WAS A MOMENTUM FACTOR WAS NOT A GAME WINNING KICK. It MIGHT have changed things. Again, I think you are not giving him a fair chance. I'm not saying he is Pro-Bowl status yet. But what would you do?? Cut him after the season he had. For who? Who do you suggest is a better alternative. Give me names and stats that back them up as being PRESSURE kickers. Every kicker, including Vinetari, WILL MISS A PRESSURE kick.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

kicking is all about psychological strength...no telling how he'll bounce back...there is also a lot of precedent for not giving kickers a second chance after having blow a big kick, or conversely, giving them a second chance and watching them derail...