Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

Jeff George 57.0%

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

Eli has the worst completion percentage in the NFC East.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

Heath Shuler = 49.2%!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny Wuerffel = 52.6%

Tony Banks = 54.2%

Patrick Ramsey = 56.0%

Tim Hasselbeck = 53.7%

Jeff Hostetler = 54.9% with Skins

John Friesz = 54.6%

Trent Green = 54.6% with Skins, then we all know what happened... :(

Cary Conklin = 51.5%

Gus Frerotte = 54.7%



Holy crap we've had bad QBs since Rypien!

Except Brad Johnson = 61.7% & Rich Gannon = 60.2% who we let go too soon.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;573134]Eli has the worst completion percentage in the NFC East.[/quote]

But he's got the only ring.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573153]But he's got the only ring.[/quote]

I'm tired of this argument. He didn't win them the SB himself. They won in spite of him. A good QB goes a long way towards winning SB[B]s[/B] (emphasis on the s). One SB win does not a great QB make. If he leads his team to a SB this year (LEADS) then I'll be convinced. Otherwise I've spent however many years watching him be average with flashes of good.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

Doesn't Ben have 2 rings?

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573153]But he's got the only ring.[/quote]

Check out his game log for that season...it's not pretty. They won [B]despite[/B] having him as QB. He did get "hot" for the last game of the season and the playoffs, but throughout weeks 1-16, he had 4 games where he had completion percentages in the 30-46% range, only 3 games over 60%, a 59-yard game, a 99-yard game, 19 TDs and also 19 INTs, 7 games under 200 yards passing, 9 of the games he did not have more TDs than INTs. Fumbled 13 times, lost 7.

He had a nice 273 yard game with 1 TD and 4 INTs though!

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/gamelogs?id=MAN473170&season=2007"]Eli Manning: Game Logs[/URL]

Against the Skins:

Wk 3 - 21/36, 232 yds, [B]1TD, 2 INTs[/B], 58.3%, 1 fumble lost
Wk 15 - [B]18/52[/B], 184 yds, 1TD, 0 INTs, [B]34.6%[/B], 1 fumble lost

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

Truly the only thing I hope this contract does is put dollar signs in Jason's eyes. IF he leads this team to win a SB this year, He will be a golden boy. I hope Jason saw the contract and circled 2 FEB in a big green circle!

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

He brought intangibles to the table. Peyton and Archie.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=FRPLG;573159]I'm tired of this argument. He didn't win them the SB himself. They won in spite of him. A good QB goes a long way towards winning SB[B]s[/B] (emphasis on the s). One SB win does not a great QB make. If he leads his team to a SB this year (LEADS) then I'll be convinced. Otherwise I've spent however many years watching him be average with flashes of good.[/quote]

You may be tired of it but tell me it's not a HUGE reason why he received the contract that he did.

At the end of the day when people want to keep tossing out these stats about how bad he is, the one thing that trumps all is that ring.

Saying they won in spite of him just rings of "hater" to me. Of course he didn't win it all by himself, but he played a big role down the stretch in the playoffs and SB.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;573171]He brought intangibles to the table. Peyton and Archie.[/quote]

Ha...I guess he DOES have the best staff of personal trainers out of all QBs in the league.

Maybe the Giants should be compensating Peyton and Archie...heck, Cooper too.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573173]You may be tired of it but tell me it's not a HUGE reason why he received the contract that he did.

At the end of the day when people want to keep tossing out these stats about how bad he is, the one thing that trumps all is that ring.

Saying they won in spite of him just rings of "hater" to me. Of course he didn't win it all by himself, but he played a big role down the stretch in the playoffs and SB.[/quote]

True true true.

I am not an Eli fan and I like to trot out his poor stats as much as anyone. But the point of the stats is to win and Eli has shown he can do that. The question every qb faces is, "Can he win a Super Bowl?" and Eli has already answered that in the affirmative. No one else in the division knows that about their qb.

Let me put this differently - the G-men know that Eli is not a world beater but they also know that, with him under center, they have a chance to win it all. Armed with this knowledge, they would have been quite foolish not to pay Eli and start all over again at qb from scratch.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573173]You may be tired of it but tell me it's not a HUGE reason why he received the contract that he did.

At the end of the day when people want to keep tossing out these stats about how bad he is, the one thing that trumps all is that ring.

Saying they won in spite of him just rings of "hater" to me. Of course he didn't win it all by himself, but he played a big role down the stretch in the playoffs and SB.[/quote]

That ring isn't HIS ring. Their team won it. I agree it is a reason he got the contract. It isn't a good reason. Or even close to a good reason. They're rewarding him for be able to not lose the SB for them. Not for helping them win it in my opinion.

I'll go this far...absent their continued luck in putting together the best DL in the league they'll never win a SB with Eli at QB again.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

Divine intervention that ball stuck to Tyree's helmet.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Lotus;573177]True true true.

I am not an Eli fan and I like to trot out his poor stats as much as anyone. But the point of the stats is to win and Eli has shown he can do that. [B]The question every qb faces is, "Can he win a Super Bowl?" and Eli has already answered that in the affirmative.[/B] No one else in the division knows that about their qb.

Let me put this differently - the G-men know that Eli is not a world beater but they also know that, with him under center, they have a chance to win it all. Armed with this knowledge, they would have been quite foolish not to pay Eli and start all over again at qb from scratch.[/quote]

To this point in bold, would anyone today know or care about who Mark Rypien was if it wasn't for that '91 season?

People may get tired of the ring argument, but it's the one thing that people will remember above all else. 20 years from now are people gonna be saying "yeah but Eli's completion % was only 55%". F no.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=FRPLG;573178][B]That ring isn't HIS ring. Their team won it.[/B] I agree it is a reason he got the contract. It isn't a good reason. Or even close to a good reason. They're rewarding him for be able to not lose the SB for them. Not for helping them win it in my opinion.

I'll go this far...absent their continued luck in putting together the best DL in the league they'll never win a SB with Eli at QB again.[/quote]

Thanks for stating the obvious. I'm well aware that it's a team sport. Still, he's a part of that team and had just as much to do with winning it as anyone else.

You can't even give Eli credit for being a SB winner it seems.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573181]To this point in bold, would anyone today know or care about who Mark Rypien was if it wasn't for that '91 season?

People may get tired of the ring argument, but it's the one thing that people will remember above all else. 20 years from now are people gonna be saying "yeah but Eli's completion % was only 55%". F no.[/quote]

There are some SB victories where we do admit the team did not have a star QB. Teams with Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien (although he was amazing that season), Rich Gannon, Jeff Hostetler, maybe even Jim McMahon.

Eli falls into THAT group, not the list containing Montana, Favre, Elway, Steve Young and Terry Bradshaw.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573183]Thanks for stating the obvious. I'm well aware that it's a team sport. Still, he's a part of that team and had just as much to do with winning it as anyone else.

You can't even give Eli credit for being a SB winner it seems.[/quote]


So was David Tyree. What did he get for helping them win the SB? He got cut.

Being on a SB roster does not make you a great player.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Buster;573185]There are some SB victories where we do admit the team did not have a star QB. Teams with Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien (although he was amazing that season), Rich Gannon, Jeff Hostetler, maybe even Jim McMahon.

Eli falls into THAT group, not the list containing Montana, Favre, Elway, Steve Young and Terry Bradshaw.[/quote]

I'd say he falls in the middle somewhere. He's certainly not in the Dilfer category.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Buster;573187]So was David Tyree. What did he get for helping them win the SB? He got cut.

Being on a SB roster does not make you a great player.[/quote]

You certainly can't be putting Tyree and Manning in the same category of player.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573183]Thanks for stating the obvious. I'm well aware that it's a team sport. Still, he's a part of that team and had just as much to do with winning it as anyone else.

[B]You can't even give Eli credit for being a SB winner it seems.[/B][/quote]

I give him credit but I contend it is irrelevant in this case. Players should get paid for their abilities to help their team win. I don't think he helps his team win more than average. He certainly isn't a top 5 QB in the NFL. There are dozens of players on that team that won a ring...should they all get paid more than everyone else in the league relative to their position? Of course not.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573188]I'd say he falls in the middle somewhere. He's certainly not in the Dilfer category.[/quote]

The difference is that he is getting paid to be in the latter group. Hell he is getting paid to be in a group even better than the later group. I simply don't think he helped them more than an average player would have helped them. I firmly believe if JC is there they win the same SB.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

This is good stuff fellas.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=FRPLG;573192]The difference is that he is getting paid to be in the latter group. Hell he is getting paid to be in a group even better than the later group. I simply don't think he helped them more than an average player would have helped them. I firmly believe if JC is there they win the same SB.[/quote]

So if the argument is boiling down to him being way overpaid I definitely agree. BUT, what should the Giants have done?

Let's face it, the best players are not always paid the most money. In fact you can find examples of this in every walk of life, not just the NFL.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573202]So if the argument is boiling down to him being way overpaid I definitely agree. BUT, what should the Giants have done?

Let's face it, the best players are not always paid the most money. In fact you can find examples of this in every walk of life, not just the NFL.[/quote]

Well if it were me I'd do what Tripp suggested. Franchise him and draft a replacement. I am just concerned this going to cause problems throughout the league with QB contracts. This strikes me a very redskins-like move. Just too much of a good thing. I know they paid a premium to keep him off the market and avoid issues but they way way way over-paid. Some balance was needed. But on the upside they're saddled with him now for the foreseeable future.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

This article made some good points IMO

[quote]You can make a case that Eli doesn’t deserve to be the highest-paid player in the NFL, and you might win that argument, but you cannot win the argument that the Giants can find a better player for their team now. They need to make Eli better, but they won’t find a better player.

link: [url=http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Diner-morning-news-Is-Eli-worth-it.html]Diner morning news: Is Eli worth it? | National Football Post[/url][/quote]

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Buster;573165]Check out his game log for that season...it's not pretty. They won [B]despite[/B] having him as QB. He did get "hot" for the last game of the season and the playoffs, but throughout weeks 1-16, he had 4 games where he had completion percentages in the 30-46% range, only 3 games over 60%, a 59-yard game, a 99-yard game, 19 TDs and also 19 INTs, 7 games under 200 yards passing, 9 of the games he did not have more TDs than INTs. Fumbled 13 times, lost 7.

He had a nice 273 yard game with 1 TD and 4 INTs though!

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/gamelogs?id=MAN473170&season=2007"]Eli Manning: Game Logs[/URL]

Against the Skins:

Wk 3 - 21/36, 232 yds, [B]1TD, 2 INTs[/B], 58.3%, 1 fumble lost
Wk 15 - [B]18/52[/B], 184 yds, 1TD, 0 INTs, [B]34.6%[/B], 1 fumble lost[/quote]
Saying they won despite him is just as ridiculous as those who say he won them the Super Bowl. I am sure you do not have as strong of a memory about that game as I do, just like I do not have as good a memory about Super Bowl XXVI as you. He played a GOOD game, not great, but good. He threw one interception in that post season and it was a ball that should have been caught by Steve Smith.

His stats are never going to be pretty. He will never be the guy you want as your #1QB in a fantasy football league. However, in the 4th quarter and the Giants trailing, there aren't too many QB's in the league I want leading the 2 minute drill. THAT is where a QB earns his money.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=coggs;573221]Saying they won despite him is just as ridiculous as those who say he won them the Super Bowl. I am sure you do not have as strong of a memory about that game as I do, just like I do not have as good a memory about Super Bowl XXVI as you. He played a GOOD game, not great, but good. He threw one interception in that post season and it was a ball that should have been caught by Steve Smith.

His stats are never going to be pretty. He will never be the guy you want as your #1QB in a fantasy football league. However, in the 4th quarter and the Giants trailing, there aren't too many QB's in the league I want leading the 2 minute drill. THAT is where a QB earns his money.[/quote]

I hate to agree with a Giants fan on a Skins board, but you're right. Eli ain't Peyton. But, save Brady, Manning, and maybe McNabb, who can run a two minute, five minute better than Eli?

The cold hard truth is there's going to be someone even less deserving in another year or two that will get the "next" biggest salary in NFL history.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=FRPLG;573206]Well if it were me I'd do what Tripp suggested. [B]Franchise him and draft a replacement.[/B] I am just concerned this going to cause problems throughout the league with QB contracts. This strikes me a very redskins-like move. Just too much of a good thing. I know they paid a premium to keep him off the market and avoid issues but they way way way over-paid. Some balance was needed. But on the upside they're saddled with him now for the foreseeable future.[/quote]

The problem with this strategy is its risk. Good franchise quarterbacks are hard to find.

Look at the Lions - how many good franchise qb's have they had since Bobby Lane? Or, discounting JC's possible performance this year, how about us for the last few decades? There are other squads which can be mentioned here too, of course.

What if you let Eli go and then draft Ryan Leaf or some other first round qb failure? Or what if you draft a very good player who still takes a couple of years to season, during which time the window of opportunity for the other pieces of your team closes?

Sometimes we all pay a little more to avoid situations of potentially problematic uncertainty. It seems that the Giants did the same with Eli.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=12thMan;573241]I hate to agree with a Giants fan on a Skins board, but you're right. Eli ain't Peyton. But, save Brady, Manning, and maybe McNabb, who can run a two minute, five minute better than Eli?

The cold hard truth is there's going to be someone even less deserving in another year or two that will get the "next" biggest salary in NFL history.[/quote]

Outside of rookie QBs there won't. Every notable QB up for FA in the next few years is appreciably better than Eli save maybe JC (I think he is but that's really up in the air).

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573181]To this point in bold, would anyone today know or care about who Mark Rypien was if it wasn't for that '91 season?

People may get tired of the ring argument, but it's the one thing that people will remember above all else. 20 years from now are people gonna be saying "yeah but Eli's completion % was only 55%". F no.[/quote]I think we're getting away from the main point here which is: if Mark Rypien's agent was negotiating with the Skins for some obscene amount of guaranteed money, all payable the next day (say, $18 million to throw out a 1992 contract figure), he's getting laughed out of the room.

I mean, look what happened to Rypien's career following that super bowl. From the day after the super bowl on, Rypien might as well been any other guy.

Manning's future isn't quite that grim, as he should be an average to above average 10-15 range passer for the next five years, but at which point does the amount of money you are asking for get you laughed out of the room?

When you compare it to the fact that the Redskins won't even negotiate with Campbell for comprable performance, what you have is two organizations at the complete opposite end of the ridiculous spectrum. And in the middle, you have Tony Romo on a very team-friendly $9 million a year contract, and Donovan McNabb on a relatively short term deal getting paid like a franchise quarterback. Certainly, in this case, the Cowboys and Eagles have it right while the Giants and Redskins have it wrong.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=GTripp0012;573257]I think we're getting away from the main point here which is: if Mark Rypien's agent was negotiating with the Skins for some obscene amount of guaranteed money, all payable the next day (say, $18 million to throw out a 1992 contract figure), he's getting laughed out of the room.

I mean, look what happened to Rypien's career following that super bowl. From the day after the super bowl on, Rypien might as well been any other guy.

Manning's future isn't quite that grim, as he should be an average to above average 10-15 range passer for the next five years, but at which point does the amount of money you are asking for get you laughed out of the room?

When you compare it to the fact that the Redskins won't even negotiate with Campbell for comprable performance, what you have is two organizations at the complete opposite end of the ridiculous spectrum. And in the middle, you have Tony Romo on a very team-friendly $9 million a year contract, and Donovan McNabb on a relatively short term deal getting paid like a franchise quarterback. Certainly, in this case, the Cowboys and Eagles have it right while the Giants and Redskins have it wrong.[/quote]

Only caveat to that is that the Giants have a ring with their current QB, none of the aforementioned teams do. But your point is well taken though. I just wanted to point out that the Giants do have some hardware to show for it.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=12thMan;573260]Only caveat to that is that the Giants have a ring with their current QB, none of the aforementioned teams do. But your point is well taken though. I just wanted to point out that the Giants do have some hardware to show for it.[/quote]

True, but they had the hardware before this big contract. I think GTripp makes a good point about Ryp.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

So Eli 5 years in the league and in those 5 years...
started 72 straight games for the Giants........
4 straight playoff apperences
1 Super Bowl victory
1Super bowl MVP award......

How much is Haynsworth getting......................?:goodjob:
....1 year out of six or 7 has he played in all 16 games.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Giantone;573270]So Eli 5 years in the league and in those 5 years...
started 72 straight games for the Giants........
4 straight playoff apperences
1 Super Bowl victory
1Super bowl MVP award......

How much is Haynsworth getting......................?:goodjob:
....1 year out of six or 7 has he played in all 16 games.[/quote]I'm taking my 2007 Defensive POY and going home.

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=GTripp0012;573257]. Certainly, in this case, the Cowboys and Eagles have it right while the Giants and Redskins have it wrong.[/quote]

Oh really???:doh:How many super bowl rings do McNabb and Romo have?:goodjob:

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Giantone;573272]Oh really???:doh:How many super bowl rings to McNabb and Romo have?:goodjob:[/quote]Who gives a crap?

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=GTripp0012;573273]Who gives a crap?[/quote]


You must, you said they have it right,I just don't know what it is that is right?

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

[quote=Giantone;573274]You must, you said they have it right,I just don't know what it is that is right?[/quote]They have contracts with their quarterbacks that don't stop them from improving their team elsewhere.

You could argue that the Cowboys in particular haven't done all that great a job building around Romo, at least not compared to the Giants or Eagles certainly, but compare the contract McNabb got to the one Eli got. They're both among the highest paid per year in the game, and you could argue that neither is a top ten QB, but McNabb's contract says: you're are quarterback of the present, we're going to pay you to win while we build for the future, while Eli's screams, "we have no plan so please win us some games this year."

Re: Eli Manning's 6-Year, $97.5 Million Extension One of NFL's Biggest Deals
 

I don't think that Eli's contract is that ridiculous. He is a proven clutch QB. Now if you want to look at idiotic contracts I would discuss Nate Clements, Asomugha or Stafford's deal before I would focus on Eli's.

I think that Eli owes a lot of this deal to Burress and a great offensive line but I don't think that the Giants made a terrible move by locking him up. In a few years this contract probably won't look so out of line.