Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=Beemnseven;582916]On the other hand, if the Patriots wanted him, that means they see value there which would mean we should probably hang on to him.

That's an organization that seems to have an eye for talent.[/quote]

Such an eye for talent that the only reason they need a back-up QB now is they just had to cut a 3rd round pick they spent on QB last year.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=SmootSmack;582968]Such an eye for talent that the only reason they need a back-up QB now is they just had to cut a 3rd round pick they spent on QB last year.[/quote]

And they came close to cutting Cassel last year...

Teams were all over O'Connell like flies on a picnic, but the Lions nabbed him.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

For what it is worth, here's ESPN's Mosley's take on backup qb's in the division:

1. Philadelphia -- I don't necessarily think the Eagles made a wise decision in signing social reformer/Wildcat quarterback Michael Vick, but he'll immediately become the best backup in the division once he's fully reinstated by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell. Who are defensive coordinators more worried about? Jon Kitna or Vick? See.
2. Dallas -- I think Kitna could come off the bench and do a nice job for a few games. Over the course of a season, he might take too many sacks. But for a three- or four-game stretch, he could perform really well. The Cowboys were held hostage by the backup quarterback spot in '08. They weren't going to let it happen again.
3. Washington -- I think Todd Collins is about as dependable a backup as you'll find in the league. He led the team to the playoffs during a thrilling stretch in '07 and he does a nice job protecting the football. He's the perfect caretaker quarterback if something happens to Jason Campbell. And I like that Jim Zorn's leaning toward Chase Daniel. The former Mizzou Tiger has made the most of his limited opportunities in the preseason. The end is near for the Cult of Colt.
4. New York -- David Carr could get you through a game or two, but he'd be the last guy in the division I'd want behind center for a seven- or eight-game stretch. If Eli Manning goes down, the Giants are cooked. I can't say that about the other three teams' situations.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

The big difference in 2 years ago and the future season is that was Al Saunders offense, that TC knew to perfection i'm not so sure he can be that effective in Zorn's offense.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=SmootSmack;582968]Such an eye for talent that the only reason they need a back-up QB now is they just had to cut a 3rd round pick they spent on QB last year.[/quote]

That wasn't meant to imply that the Patriots are immune to mistakes from time to time. They just don't make as many as everybody else.

Either way, if they like Collins we should probably keep him.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=Beemnseven;583017]That wasn't meant to imply that the Patriots are immune to mistakes from time to time. They just don't make as many as everybody else.

Either way, if they like Collins we should probably keep him.[/quote]

I think they make as many, if not more ,than most teams. They just position themselves better to afford to make mistakes.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=SmootSmack;583018]I think they make as many, if not more ,than most teams. They just position themselves better to afford to make mistakes.[/quote]

well said

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=SmootSmack;583018]I think they make as many, if not more ,than most teams. They just position themselves better to afford to make mistakes.[/quote]

Really? You think they make [I]more[/I] mistakes than most teams? How so?

A .708 winning percentage since 2000 would indicate otherwise.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=Lotus;582974]For what it is worth, here's ESPN's Mosley's take on backup qb's in the division:

1. Philadelphia -- I don't necessarily think the Eagles made a wise decision in signing social reformer/Wildcat quarterback Michael Vick, but he'll immediately become the best backup in the division once he's fully reinstated by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell. Who are defensive coordinators more worried about? Jon Kitna or Vick? See.
2. Dallas -- I think Kitna could come off the bench and do a nice job for a few games. Over the course of a season, he might take too many sacks. But for a three- or four-game stretch, he could perform really well. The Cowboys were held hostage by the backup quarterback spot in '08. They weren't going to let it happen again.
3. Washington -- I think Todd Collins is about as dependable a backup as you'll find in the league. He led the team to the playoffs during a thrilling stretch in '07 and he does a nice job protecting the football. He's the perfect caretaker quarterback if something happens to Jason Campbell. And I like that Jim Zorn's leaning toward Chase Daniel. The former Mizzou Tiger has made the most of his limited opportunities in the preseason. The end is near for the Cult of Colt.
4. New York -- David Carr could get you through a game or two, but he'd be the last guy in the division I'd want behind center for a seven- or eight-game stretch. If Eli Manning goes down, the Giants are cooked. I can't say that about the other three teams' situations.[/quote]

Looks like Vick might be reinstated as early as game three now.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=Beemnseven;583295]Really? You think they make [I]more[/I] mistakes than most teams? How so?

A .708 winning percentage since 2000 would indicate otherwise.[/quote]

Well, I was referring more to their personnel decisions (based on the whole "eye for talent" thing)

2006-2008 they had 26 draft picks. Of those 26 picks, 16 are not on the Patriots anymore (some aren't even in the NFL). So basically my point was yes they stock up on draft picks which is great because even though 16 aren't even on the team anymore, 10 are. I mean you look at the Redskins 2004-2006 we only had 16 total picks.

So they put themselves in position to make mistakes with their "eye for talent" But I think a lot of people assume that because Tom Brady was a 6th round pick, the Pats have the magic touch when it comes to picking players.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

^I wonder how much Pioli's departure will harm their personnel track record. Pioli was a strong force who could provide a veto voice if Belichick was about to make a mistake. Now, if Belichick is wrong, the mistake remains because no one is there with the power to call him out.

I'm not picking on Belichick here. Even the most savvy personnel folks make mistakes. It is the nature of the beast.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=SmootSmack;583456]Well, I was referring more to their personnel decisions (based on the whole "eye for talent" thing)

2006-2008 they had 26 draft picks. Of those 26 picks, 16 are not on the Patriots anymore (some aren't even in the NFL). So basically my point was yes they stock up on draft picks which is great because even though 16 aren't even on the team anymore, 10 are. I mean you look at the Redskins 2004-2006 we only had 16 total picks.

So they put themselves in position to make mistakes with their "eye for talent" [B]But I think a lot of people assume that because Tom Brady was a 6th round pick, the Pats have the magic touch when it comes to picking players.[/B][/quote]

I'm glad you mentioned this because this is what irks me a bit about people that make the arguments that "oh our team can't recognize talent and others can". Every draft pick is a gamble and sometimes you get a Brady or some other diamond in the rough in the later rounds. Sure teams are looking at talent throughout all the rounds, but no one can tell for sure how each draft pick is going to pan out. If Bledsoe doesn't get hurt, Brady doesn't get his chance.

By the way, if Mitchell works out and makes the roster, this will be the second year that we get a 7th rounder to be good enough to make the roster and get significant playing time his rookie year.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

Can someone remind me how much of the offense Zorn said Campbell (and his other quarterbacks) knew and executed last summer? Drawing a blank

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=SmootSmack;583491]Can someone remind me how much of the offense Zorn said Campbell (and his other quarterbacks) knew and executed last summer? Drawing a blank[/quote]

There was an article circulating previously which said 50 passing plays.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=Lotus;583498]There was an article circulating previously which said 50 passing plays.[/quote]

So, not 50%. But 50 passing plays? Interesting

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

Yeah, I remember clearly that it was 50 passing PLAYS.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=Lotus;583509]Yeah, I remember clearly that it was 50 passing PLAYS.[/quote]

Crazy. I heard that Chase knows and can execute 90% of the playbook (according to practice). I just find that hard to believe so early in his NFL career.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=SmootSmack;583511]Crazy. I heard that Chase knows and can execute 90% of the playbook (according to practice). I just find that hard to believe so early in his NFL career.[/quote]

Perhaps he is just super smart and has been studying his guts out?

;)

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=Mattyk72;583524]Perhaps he is just super smart and has been studying [B]his guts out[/B] on learning the playbook?

;)[/quote]

Copyright Joe Gibbs. :laughing2

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=Lotus;583474]^I wonder how much Pioli's departure will harm their personnel track record. Pioli was a strong force who could provide a veto voice if Belichick was about to make a mistake. Now, if Belichick is wrong, the mistake remains because no one is there with the power to call him out.

I'm not picking on Belichick here. Even the most savvy personnel folks make mistakes. It is the nature of the beast.[/quote]Early returns are: probably none. Since Pioli took the KC job, New England's player preferences have not changed, and KC seems to be operating a similar ship, but without a clear plan for future success.

Have not been impressed by Pioli (solo) at all. Trade for Matt Cassel? Eh. Draft Tyson Jackson with No. 3 overall pick? We'll see. Trade Tony Gonzalez? Good move in a vacuum, but inconsistent with Bowe's temporary benching/Cassel trade/Bobby Engram signing.

Not to bore with baseball details, but the other Kansas City team tried to replace it's incompetent GM with a much respected, intelligent baseball man from another organization, and he's been a complete disaster. The football version hasn't been all that impressive either, at least to date.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=SmootSmack;583511]Crazy. I heard that Chase knows and can execute 90% of the playbook (according to practice). I just find that hard to believe so early in his NFL career.[/quote]If this is true, there's no way he doesn't already have a roster spot locked down. That would be mighty impressive.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=GTripp0012;583538]Early returns are: probably none. Since Pioli took the KC job, New England's player preferences have not changed, and KC seems to be operating a similar ship, but without a clear plan for future success.

Have not been impressed by Pioli (solo) at all. Trade for Matt Cassel? Eh. Draft Tyson Jackson with No. 3 overall pick? We'll see. Trade Tony Gonzalez? Good move in a vacuum, but inconsistent with Bowe's temporary benching/Cassel trade/Bobby Engram signing.

Not to bore with baseball details, but the other Kansas City team tried to replace it's incompetent GM with a much respected, intelligent baseball man from another organization, and he's been a complete disaster. The football version hasn't been all that impressive either, at least to date.[/quote]

Can't argue w/ his record in NE. But I agree w/ his KC moves. Cassel has bust written all over him and to give him a huge contract off of one year is very suspect. But drafting Jackson was a real reach. He was the best players on a very average LSU defense. We'll see..

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

[quote=Lotus;583509]Yeah, I remember clearly that it was 50 passing PLAYS.[/quote]

That's really not a lot for an NFL team. Hell that's not a lot for a HS team now a days.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

^ That's one reason why I suspect our offense will be better this year. Down the stretch last year we fooled no one because our entire offense had been seen. It was easy for defenses to prep for us.

Re: Collins locks up the #2 job, Colt and Chase fighting for the #3
 

This is it, may the best man win. NO excuses.