Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I want great too..I just don't want to go through a franchise killer like Leaf/Couch/Quinn who come in and then its just 3-4 years to recover...I would rather keep him and have a decent team

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=nyredskinsfan;647595]I'm not sure I'm prepaired for the breakin stage, however, Sanchez has made it interesting for the Jets.

Interesting link to look at: Some surprises to me do to hype.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_career_passer_rating_leaders"]NFL career passer rating leaders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL][/quote]


All what matters man is overall record... Romo and Rivers are amazing and have great records, Campbell's record is terrible! His number's are because of the style that he play's. He just completes short passes that create a high comp. percentage and good rating. When you watch the games you can see why he's not very effective, horrible decision making and bad accuracy. He's a backup QB at best after this season except in (Oak) and that's why they are bad.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;647603]I want great too..I just don't want to go through a franchise killer like Leaf/Couch/Quinn who come in and then its just 3-4 years to recover...I would rather keep him and have a decent team[/quote]

So you want .500 instead of a chance to be a contender every year?????? :doh:

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;647597]Since we're getting a new coach we're getting a new system. Time for a new QB. Campbell had his chance and has never lead us to a playoff. Time to go.[/quote]

Who would you suggest we replace him with?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;647607]All what matters man is overall record... Romo and Rivers are amazing and have great records, Campbell's record is terrible! His number's are because of the style that he play's. He just completes short passes that create a high comp. percentage and good rating. When you watch the games you can see why he's not very effective, horrible decision making and bad accuracy. He's a backup QB at best after this season except in (Oak) and that's why they are bad.[/quote]So, basically, you're saying:

1) Campbell is good at what he does
2) What he does/is told to do doesn't help us win

3) The problem must be Campbell

Clearly, you have a thinking problem.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Slap me on the wridt if someone already brought this up...

but if Zorn ends up in Cleveland as OC or QB Coach... what do you think Cleveland would be willing to give up for Campbell??

This scenario seems logically possible... if Zorn likes Jason as a QB that is...

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Slap me on the wrist if someone already brought this up...

but if Zorn ends up in Cleveland as OC or QB Coach... what do you think Cleveland would be willing to give up for Campbell??

This scenario seems logically possible... if Zorn likes Jason as a QB that is...

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;647611]So, basically, you're saying:

1) Campbell is good at what he does
2) What he does/is told to do doesn't help us win

3) The problem must be Campbell

Clearly, you have a thinking problem.[/quote]

I never said JC is the main reason that we have been bad. Stop backing this guy if his overall record shows the truth, you just look at numbers obviously. Jc has had multiple chances to show his worth, remember this guy was just 1 pick behind Rodgers whom has become a top 10 qb.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;647614]I never said JC is the main reason that we have been bad. Stop backing this guy if his overall record shows the truth, you just look at numbers obviously. Jc has had multiple chances to show his worth, remember this guy was just 1 pick behind Rodgers whom has become a top 10 qb.[/quote]Rodgers is a top ten QB only in the mind of dreamers. The guy took 50 sacks this year.

Campbell has shown plenty of worth. Our losing has never been about him, much as our winning has never been about him. It's been about our joke of a defense, and our offensive line which needs no introduction. Our winning was about our running game.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;647619]Rodgers is a top ten QB only in the mind of dreamers.

Campbell has shown plenty of worth. Our losing has never been about him, much as our winning has never been about him. It's been about our joke of a defense, and our offensive line which needs no introduction. Our winning was about our running game.[/quote]

Gtripp you are usually right on and I always agree with you, but you'r saying that our QB has nothing to do with wins and losses? C'Mon man that's insane. Rodgers has gotten sacked more than Campbell and he has 29 Td's and has his team on a roll. Yea they are better than us but QB makes a huge difference.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;647625]Gtripp you are usually right on and I always agree with you, but you'r saying that our QB has nothing to do with wins and losses? C'Mon man that's insane. Rodgers has gotten sacked more than Campbell and he has 29 Td's and has his team on a roll. Yea they are better than us but QB makes a huge difference.[/quote]I'm not really comparing Rodgers to Campbell. I'm saying Rodgers is a top ten QB in the mind of dreamers. He won 5 games last year, 10 games this year, and he's a game below .500 in his career with a superior team to the Redskins. In essence, he's where Jason Campbell was at this point last year.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

All I know is... Rogers is helping me win my fantasy league...

63.9% completion, 4,100 yds, 29TDs, only 7 INTs, AND 314 rushing yards...

... all with getting sacked 50 times??

How can anyone say he isn't one of the elite QBs entering the "Teens"??

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;647625]Gtripp you are usually right on and I always agree with you, but you'r saying that our QB has nothing to do with wins and losses? C'Mon man that's insane. Rodgers has gotten sacked more than Campbell and he has 29 Td's and has his team on a roll. Yea they are better than us but QB makes a huge difference.[/quote]

All you have to do is watch Rogers. He brings his game with him.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Id rather have Blache fired and JC retained then Bradford drafted and us continue to stick with the same vanilla defensive playcalling.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;647636]All I know is... Rogers is helping me win my fantasy league...

63.9% completion, 4,100 yds, 29TDs, only 7 INTs, AND 314 rushing yards...

... all with getting sacked 50 times??

How can anyone say he isn't one of the elite QBs entering the "Teens"??[/quote]Nothing on his year. Anyone with those kind of numbers can win a whole bunch of games.

Any QB who takes 50 sacks will neither have a very long career, nor a very effective one. Driver will be 35 next year. Rodgers struggled mightily against Minnesota, and they needed to get a better effort from their quarterback in those games.

Much like Campbell has struggled against New York, when his team needs it the most, Rodgers has a ton to prove before he can be a top ten QB. I wouldn't call Campbell a top ten QB either, I'm just saying that if we lower the bar far enough, I can sure as hell make a convincing argument.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I'd LOVE to "complain" or "try and put down" Campbell for throwing for 4,100yds, over 30 TDs, and less than 10 INTs...

I guess I'm still losing the logic here...

Brady took a bad loss to the Saints, so he is no longer "top 10"?? I mean sometimes guys do have off games and their teams lose for reason other than them...

and by the way...

Rogers numbers vs Minnesota this year:

Game 1: 70.3%, 384 yds, 2 TD, 1 INT
Game 2: 63.4%, 287 yds, 3 TD, 0 INT

660 yards, 5 TDs, 1 INT total in 2 games... if that is "stuggling mightily" versus your number one rival (Cowboys)... you'll NEVER be happy with any Redskins QB! lol

The Packers defense gave up 68 total points in those 2 games... not sure how to blame that on Rogers...

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

^ dude everyone gives jc so many excuses! Idk why? He isn't that good mayb that's why. Rogers is a beast, Campbell is just avg. I'm tired of avg

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Campbell is 12 games under .500 for his career, with 53 tds 37 ints in 4 1/2 yrs. He avg around 15 tds a year, you can't win with that enough said

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I'm very conflicted on this question because on one hand I want Jason back because I think he's our best option at QB for next year. I don't like any of the QB's in the draft this year. On the other hand I think JC will always be just an okay QB and nothing more. I don't think he will ever lead a team to the Super Bowl. In the end I answered yes, only because he's our best option for next year and I don't want to invest a high draft pick one of the QB's coming out this year. Beyond the 2010 season, however, I feel like we're going to need to find a new QB.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;647650]I'd LOVE to "complain" or "try and put down" Campbell for throwing for 4,100yds, over 30 TDs, and less than 10 INTs...

I guess I'm still losing the logic here...

Brady took a bad loss to the Saints, so he is no longer "top 10"?? I mean sometimes guys do have off games and their teams lose for reason other than them...

and by the way...

Rogers numbers vs Minnesota this year:

Game 1: 70.3%, 384 yds, 2 TD, 1 INT
Game 2: 63.4%, 287 yds, 3 TD, 0 INT

660 yards, 5 TDs, 1 INT total in 2 games... if that is "stuggling mightily" versus your number one rival (Cowboys)... you'll NEVER be happy with any Redskins QB! lol

The Packers defense gave up 68 total points in those 2 games... not sure how to blame that on Rogers...[/quote]Sacks, pretty much. Cluelessness in the pocket is a great way to lose games without hurting QB rating. Campbell has had a fair share of failures of this sort, as well.

I don't think anyone said Marc Bulger was struggling mightily when he was making all those probowls with the greatest show on turf, but he and Rodgers are basically the same player.

And I'd much rather have the guy who tears up the league for two or three years in a great offense and then gets injured and takes a beating and sucks for the next five years or so than the alternative of drafting a bust. I don't think I've ever tried to call Rodgers a bust, and I think he's quite deserving of a pro bowl selection because it's a single year achievement.

But being a top ten QB, I think, is never about what you can do/win in a single year. And this year is really all Rodgers has. Lifetime, he's a .500 QB with above average numbers. Warner, Favre, Pennington, Romo are all more accomplished than this, and still play at every bit as high a level as Rodgers does.

Anyway, enough about Aaron Rodgers put downs. This is a Jason Campbell thread, and the reason that Rodgers' name isn't coming up in replacement talks is that he's a well-coached quarterback in a great organization. He shouldn't have to apologize for that.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

My top ten, in really no particular order, except that I'm starting at the top:

Manning
Rivers
Brees
Brady

Warner
Romo
Favre
Pennington
Manning
Roethlisberger

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;647671]My top ten, in really no particular order, except that I'm starting at the top:

Manning
Rivers
Brees
Brady

Warner
Romo
Favre
Pennington
Manning
Roethlisberger[/quote]

No way Pennington makes the cut... Maybe not even ELI.

MY top ten in order..
1.P.Manning
2. Brady
3. Rivers
4. Brees
5. Big Ben
6. McNabb
7. Rodgers
8. Romo
9. Favre
10. Warner

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

If single-bounce passes were live balls (and if ties were wins), McNabb might belong on a top ten list.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Mcnabb has been to 5 NFC Championships and a SB. Also one of the only QB's in the league with 200 + TD'S and less than 100 Int's.. Not to mention his record is outstanding.
What has Chad done besides getting Hurt every year?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;647608]So you want .500 instead of a chance to be a contender every year?????? :doh:[/quote]

Because we are a QB away from being a contender? get real...

Oh, and what are the odds of finding the next Peyton Manning? Significantly less than 50% I'll warrant.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;647676]Because we are a QB away from being a contender? get real...

Oh, and what are the odds of finding the next Peyton Manning? Significantly less than 50% I'll warrant.[/quote]

Never said we are a QB away from contending, but it's time to start fresh. And so what are you saying? That JC could make this team a CONTENDER? Sorry but we both know that's not true, he has had multiple chances in WSH. Let him go and have a chance at another team, I bet he will be the same JC .

BTW 20-32 as a starter won't cut it

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Just saw this on NBCSPORTS.COM

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/29/keep-an-eye-on-redskins-and-sam-bradford/"]Keep an eye on Redskins and Sam Bradford | ProFootballTalk.com[/URL]

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;647678]Just saw this on NBCSPORTS.COM

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/29/keep-an-eye-on-redskins-and-sam-bradford/"]Keep an eye on Redskins and Sam Bradford | ProFootballTalk.com[/URL][/quote]

We really need to stop linking horrible articles. Maybe that will stop people from writing them.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Zerohero;647679]We really need to stop linking horrible articles. Maybe that will stop people from writing them.[/quote]

Not a great article I agree but c'mon any realistic football mind out there knows Shanahan won't keep Campbell.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Yes, for the least of all reasons depth or to groom the newbies. Fact is folks JC is the only bona fide starting caliber QB we have on the roster. Collins has to be thinking about retirement and the Brennan Experiment is over in my book. A lot of good QB talent is going to be available the next 3 seasons, but these guys probably are not going to end up like a Manning or Brady or even just starting material overnight. ALthough I might have a better chance of landing a playmate as a girlfriend than JC has of getting his mechanics right in the offseason, stranger things have happened. WHo knows, maybe Shanny can help the kid out some. Bottom line is we can't get rid of all 3 QB's, we do need a vet in there that can come in at the very least and perform somewhat. Maybe Shanny will sweep the whole lot of them out, but you want a vet in there as at least a backup. Sign him to a 2 year deal, ease the rook into the starting role then draft another guy in 2011 or 2012. Mallet from Arkansas will be available in 2012 at the latest. We really can't lose this year with getting some exciting QB talent, even in the second round.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;647675]Mcnabb has been to 5 NFC Championships and a SB. Also one of the only QB's in the league with 200 + TD'S and less than 100 Int's.. Not to mention his record is outstanding.
What has Chad done besides getting Hurt every year?[/quote]Been really, really good at football whenever he's been healthy enough to play.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;647601]I'd And contrary to what some people who "watch the tape" will tell you, he doesn't actually struggle to read blitzes or anticipate throws. These are false statements, and let not others tell you otherwise.[/quote]I have "watched some tape" this year and unless you and I are watching vastly different tape, JC does struggle with blitz recognition, getting a good pre-read on the opposing D, making his progressions if his 1st option isn't there, making accurate throws more than 10 yds downfield, and certainly ball security.

I haven't been able to "watch the tape" and do reviews since the Eagles game, but what has changed since then? I've watched the games, but not gone back to review them, but I'm still seeing the same things.

[B]Eagles:[/B]
JC's play continues to be poor. JC is still going through his "wind-up" and "pat-patting" the ball, costing a fumble and missed completions because the ball comes out late.
He left two TDs on the field, one to Moss and the other to ARE on a corner. He flat out missed a wide open Moss. On the play to ARE, he releases the ball late and off-target. He should've thrown to just inside the front pylon, rather than two yards out of bounds at the three.
He also didn't read the blitzes properly, call correct protections, or go to a hot receiver to slow down the Iggles blitz.
I'm not saying JC is the only problem we have, he's not. But he's not part of the solution either. He made a few good plays, but the mistakes he makes and limitations he has week in and week out are not tolerable. He will not be more than a back-up anywhere else.

[B]Chiefs:[/B]
- Campbell's time in DC is done. This is for the best, I like JC. He works hard and is a quality young man. I wish him a fresh start somewhere else. Based on the last few weeks, JC has limitations that will hold us back from ever being a top level team in the NFL. His ball security continues to be poor, his delivery is too long, he's locking on to his primary receiver and isn't hitting passes that are open.

Examples:
1) 2nd possession. 2 & 8, This should be a quick pass to Moss, JC has a slight pump in his delivery, he's off-balance, the ball comes out late and way low. Incomplete. The next play is 3 & 8, Zorn has on a Max Protect call and with 3 WRs vs. 7 DBs JC has to check-down to Cooley short of the first.
2) Next possession, JC misses an open DT for a TD. There was no help for Flowers, no Safety to worry about. JC just missed this throw, plain and simple.
JC does make a good play on 3 & 11 to get the ball to Cooley, who keeps the drive alive.
3) Same possession 3 & 3, JC overthrows ARE on an open whip route.
4) Next possession 1 & 10. Post to Moss....TD missed.
5) Same possession, 3 & 4. KC is in Cover 2 Man, JC locks on to Cooley and forces the throw low and incomplete. ARE was open on a quick slant, Kelly was open on a dig behind ARE's slant also. JC had time.
6) The drive to end the first half was Zorn and Campbell. On 3 & 1 with :53 left, why does it take :22 seconds to run a 1 yd dive and then reset for the next play? Why weren't two plays called? Why not get to the line and spike on 1st down? Why on the next play throw a 5 yds pass in the middle of the field to Portis? Why not out of bounds?
7) Next play, why take off and run? Where are the sideline routes? How about trying to isolate Kelly or Thomas and get a jump ball or pass interference?

All these plays above (outside of playcalling issues at the end of the half)were flat out on JC, no one else. These plays alone were the difference in the game. Two missed TDs and three killed drives because of QB mistakes. Zorn was right to bench JC.

[B]Panthers:[/B]
- Jason Campbell's limitations. While he didn't kill us this week, he fumbles again in the pocket and almost fumbled a second time. He isn't improving his ball security. Zorn is clearly protecting him with the playcalling. Out of 23 pass attempts, 13 were quick passes to 1 receiver (no reads) or screens. 3 were play-action, of the other 7, 4 were the TE delay play. Zorn isn't putting Campbell in a position to drop-back or sit in the gun, read the D and make throws based on progressions/reads.

Granted the OL protection was not good overall for the day, but I'm not seeing Campbell progressing week-to-week. Samuels getting hurt couldn't come at a worse time for evaluating JC. I was one who felt the OL problems late last year were to blame for the lack of production late in the year and JC would progress with a whole off-season to get the full grasp of the offense. What we've seen so far is zero or minimal improvement in JC, certainly not to the point where opposing defenses view him as a threat to beat them in the passing game.
- JC calling timeout when Carolina brought 6 up to the LoS in the 4th Qtr. Why? I wish we knew the problem, is it a JC reading the D problem. Is it Zorn's communication or restriction on JC? Whatever it is, it shouldn't happen. The QB sees a D not right for the play call, audible the damn thing. You come out from C and don't like what you see, throw it away. No need for a conference with the coach, just go on to the next play.

[B]Bucs:[/B] This one was pretty long so I just linked it

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32447-slingin-sammy-33s-bucs-game-review.html#post603553[/URL]

JC has put up career numbers this year, but that doesn't mean improvement. He's also put up career highs in interceptions (15, more than double last year), Interception percentage (3.2%, double last year), he's fumbled 10 times this year, and his QB rating is up only 0.7%. Much of the numbers that have helped his QB rating have been late in games that were realistically out of reach or a high number of screens that RBs & TEs have made plays on. He has left TDs on the field and made mistakes in critical situations.

There are certainly other problems the Redskins have, but the negatives of JC far outweigh the positives and we need to move on. If we can't get Clausen (we won't, he'll be off the board no later than # 3) we've got plenty of needs at OL, RB, LB and secondary. Rebuild there and bring in a stop-gap QB until we can grab Luck in 2011. We need to be prepared for at least a 2 year rebuilding process or until we find our franchise QB.

And I would take Rodgers in a heartbeat over JC, Romo, Warner, Favre, Pennington, and Eli.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=WaldSkins;647644]Id rather have Blache fired and JC retained then Bradford drafted and us continue to stick with the same vanilla defensive playcalling.[/quote]

I could live with this. I like Bradford, he may be the best QB in the draft. With this line, he would die a horrible death. The best case scenario to me would be to bring JC back, for the reasons Matty has given.... I would love to see him with a decent line, draft a couple of lineman in the first 2 rounds of the draft which would help the QB and RB's. Draft a QB in the 4th and have them compete next year. I'm assuming not bringing JC back means drafting a QB in the first and I don't want to do that. I think it's too much of a gamble when there are other players at other positions of need. If JC doesn't improve in his third year in this system with a better line, he can back-up the QB from the 4rth or we can draft a QB next year. Either way our first 2 picks will have a year under their belts and we'd be better prepared to start a rookie or 2nd year QB. Every year we find a reason not to draft an o-linemen with a high pick. True we could draft QB then o-line in the 2nd, unfortunately we need more than one. OLB and RB would have to be addressed with the fifth pick or grab a FA. That's my opinion..."at the moment". ;)

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;647698]I have "watched some tape" this year and unless you and I are watching vastly different tape, JC does struggle with blitz recognition, getting a good pre-read on the opposing D, making his progressions if his 1st option isn't there, making accurate throws more than 10 yds downfield, and certainly ball security.

I haven't been able to "watch the tape" and do reviews since the Eagles game, but what has changed since then? I've watched the games, but not gone back to review them, but I'm still seeing the same things.

[B]Eagles:[/B]
JC's play continues to be poor. JC is still going through his "wind-up" and "pat-patting" the ball, costing a fumble and missed completions because the ball comes out late.
He left two TDs on the field, one to Moss and the other to ARE on a corner. He flat out missed a wide open Moss. On the play to ARE, he releases the ball late and off-target. He should've thrown to just inside the front pylon, rather than two yards out of bounds at the three.
He also didn't read the blitzes properly, call correct protections, or go to a hot receiver to slow down the Iggles blitz.
I'm not saying JC is the only problem we have, he's not. But he's not part of the solution either. He made a few good plays, but the mistakes he makes and limitations he has week in and week out are not tolerable. He will not be more than a back-up anywhere else.

[B]Chiefs:[/B]
- Campbell's time in DC is done. This is for the best, I like JC. He works hard and is a quality young man. I wish him a fresh start somewhere else. Based on the last few weeks, JC has limitations that will hold us back from ever being a top level team in the NFL. His ball security continues to be poor, his delivery is too long, he's locking on to his primary receiver and isn't hitting passes that are open.

Examples:
1) 2nd possession. 2 & 8, This should be a quick pass to Moss, JC has a slight pump in his delivery, he's off-balance, the ball comes out late and way low. Incomplete. The next play is 3 & 8, Zorn has on a Max Protect call and with 3 WRs vs. 7 DBs JC has to check-down to Cooley short of the first.
2) Next possession, JC misses an open DT for a TD. There was no help for Flowers, no Safety to worry about. JC just missed this throw, plain and simple.
JC does make a good play on 3 & 11 to get the ball to Cooley, who keeps the drive alive.
3) Same possession 3 & 3, JC overthrows ARE on an open whip route.
4) Next possession 1 & 10. Post to Moss....TD missed.
5) Same possession, 3 & 4. KC is in Cover 2 Man, JC locks on to Cooley and forces the throw low and incomplete. ARE was open on a quick slant, Kelly was open on a dig behind ARE's slant also. JC had time.
6) The drive to end the first half was Zorn and Campbell. On 3 & 1 with :53 left, why does it take :22 seconds to run a 1 yd dive and then reset for the next play? Why weren't two plays called? Why not get to the line and spike on 1st down? Why on the next play throw a 5 yds pass in the middle of the field to Portis? Why not out of bounds?
7) Next play, why take off and run? Where are the sideline routes? How about trying to isolate Kelly or Thomas and get a jump ball or pass interference?

All these plays above (outside of playcalling issues at the end of the half)were flat out on JC, no one else. These plays alone were the difference in the game. Two missed TDs and three killed drives because of QB mistakes. Zorn was right to bench JC.

[B]Panthers:[/B]
- Jason Campbell's limitations. While he didn't kill us this week, he fumbles again in the pocket and almost fumbled a second time. He isn't improving his ball security. Zorn is clearly protecting him with the playcalling. Out of 23 pass attempts, 13 were quick passes to 1 receiver (no reads) or screens. 3 were play-action, of the other 7, 4 were the TE delay play. Zorn isn't putting Campbell in a position to drop-back or sit in the gun, read the D and make throws based on progressions/reads.

Granted the OL protection was not good overall for the day, but I'm not seeing Campbell progressing week-to-week. Samuels getting hurt couldn't come at a worse time for evaluating JC. I was one who felt the OL problems late last year were to blame for the lack of production late in the year and JC would progress with a whole off-season to get the full grasp of the offense. What we've seen so far is zero or minimal improvement in JC, certainly not to the point where opposing defenses view him as a threat to beat them in the passing game.
- JC calling timeout when Carolina brought 6 up to the LoS in the 4th Qtr. Why? I wish we knew the problem, is it a JC reading the D problem. Is it Zorn's communication or restriction on JC? Whatever it is, it shouldn't happen. The QB sees a D not right for the play call, audible the damn thing. You come out from C and don't like what you see, throw it away. No need for a conference with the coach, just go on to the next play.

[B]Bucs:[/B] This one was pretty long so I just linked it

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32447-slingin-sammy-33s-bucs-game-review.html#post603553[/URL]

JC has put up career numbers this year, but that doesn't mean improvement. He's also put up career highs in interceptions (15, more than double last year), Interception percentage (3.2%, double last year), he's fumbled 10 times this year, and his QB rating is up only 0.7%. Much of the numbers that have helped his QB rating have been late in games that were realistically out of reach or a high number of screens that RBs & TEs have made plays on. He has left TDs on the field and made mistakes in critical situations.

There are certainly other problems the Redskins have, but the negatives of JC far outweigh the positives and we need to move on. If we can't get Clausen (we won't, he'll be off the board no later than # 3) we've got plenty of needs at OL, RB, LB and secondary. Rebuild there and bring in a stop-gap QB until we can grab Luck in 2011. We need to be prepared for at least a 2 year rebuilding process or until we find our franchise QB.

And I would take Rodgers in a heartbeat over JC, Romo, Warner, Favre, Pennington, and Eli.[/quote]These are all games I broke down as well though. I mean, we've reached different conclusions, apparently, but it's the same tape. And while there's plenty of room for disagreement on the topic of this thread, factual falsehoods are unnecessary to back your point.

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32354-redskins-lost-lions-but-you-still.html[/url]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32477-redskins-vs-bucs-offensive-review-gamblers.html[/url]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32693-redskins-panthers-offensive-review-undeserving-title.html[/url]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32934-redskins-chiefs-offensive-review.html[/url]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32984-redskins-eagles-offensive-review.html[/url]

You'll find plenty of critiques of Campbell's play throughout my work, but neither you or I noticed anything about blitz recognition or pre-snap issues.

Everything you mentioned is along the lines of "Campbell left this throw on the table", "He flat out missed this throw", "Needed this third down conversion, Campbell low and behind". Granted.

You never really mentioned anything about pre-snap read or blitz recognition struggles, and this is because they aren't in anyway pronounced. It's a falsification of the evidence.

These are GREAT tape breakdowns. You absolutely did a fantastic job on them and I thought, at the time, that what I was seeing defended your analysis.

But since we both slowed down the tape breakdowns post-bye, it's not like Campbell has all-of-a-sudden developed issues that weren't there in the first half of the year. His pocket presence is still very spotty, and though he has greatly improved his ball control when he gets drilled, he's still not very sure of himself after a play breaks down. His accuracy has been suspect all year. These are measurable things that we can observe, and I don't think there's any reason to make things up.

Anyway, here's Jaws on Campbell from two weeks ago. I don't think he says anything that we don't already know, but I agree with his bottom line conclusion.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002240.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Campbell has struggled since then, but his fundamentals tend to break down when his team is greatly over-matched. There's a very simple solution to this problem that has nothing to do with Jason Campbell, and I hope we throw ALL of our resources at the real problem, independent of what the Redskins choose to do with their quarterback.

My biggest point: Campbell is neither the problem, nor the solution to the problem. I think I remember reading that in your Chiefs review as well, so if I stole it from you, I apologize.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=53Fan;647701]I could live with this. I like Bradford, he may be the best QB in the draft. With this line, he would die a horrible death. The best case scenario to me would be to bring JC back, for the reasons Matty has given.... I would love to see him with a decent line, draft a couple of lineman in the first 2 rounds of the draft which would help the QB and RB's. Draft a QB in the 4th and have them compete next year. I'm assuming not bringing JC back means drafting a QB in the first and I don't want to do that. I think it's too much of a gamble when there are other players at other positions of need. If JC doesn't improve in his third year in this system with a better line, he can back-up the QB from the 4rth or we can draft a QB next year. Either way our first 2 picks will have a year under their belts and we'd be better prepared to start a rookie or 2nd year QB. Every year we find a reason not to draft an o-linemen with a high pick. True we could draft QB then o-line in the 2nd, unfortunately we need more than one. OLB and RB would have to be addressed with the fifth pick or grab a FA. That's my opinion..."at the moment". ;)[/quote]Ultimately, I wouldn't be mad if we got rid of Campbell for Bradford as I think that Sam Bradford is the best quarterback in the draft (although Colt McCoy is probably a better value option, depending on the system).

But the last thing this team should be doing is making improving the offensive line hard on itself. I don't know how the team could possibly justify passing on Okung for Bradford/Clausen unless they pick a OT in the second round who is an all-pro right from day one. And if they can do that, I'm not sure why said guy is going in the second round.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;647705]These are all games I broke down as well though. I mean, we've reached different conclusions, apparently, but it's the same tape. And while there's plenty of room for disagreement on the topic of this thread, factual falsehoods are unnecessary to back your point.

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32354-redskins-lost-lions-but-you-still.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32477-redskins-vs-bucs-offensive-review-gamblers.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32693-redskins-panthers-offensive-review-undeserving-title.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32934-redskins-chiefs-offensive-review.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32984-redskins-eagles-offensive-review.html[/URL]

You'll find plenty of critiques of Campbell's play throughout my work, but neither you or I noticed anything about blitz recognition or pre-snap issues.

Everything you mentioned is along the lines of "Campbell left this throw on the table", "He flat out missed this throw", "Needed this third down conversion, Campbell low and behind". Granted.

You never really mentioned anything about pre-snap read or blitz recognition struggles, and this is because they aren't in anyway pronounced. It's a falsification of the evidence.

These are GREAT tape breakdowns. You absolutely did a fantastic job on them and I thought, at the time, that what I was seeing defended your analysis.

But since we both slowed down the tape breakdowns post-bye, it's not like Campbell has all-of-a-sudden developed issues that weren't there in the first half of the year. His pocket presence is still very spotty, and though he has greatly improved his ball control when he gets drilled, he's still not very sure of himself after a play breaks down. His accuracy has been suspect all year. These are measurable things that we can observe, and I don't think there's any reason to make things up.

Anyway, here's Jaws on Campbell from two weeks ago. I don't think he says anything that we don't already know, but I agree with his bottom line conclusion.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002240.html"]washingtonpost.com[/URL]

Campbell has struggled since then, but his fundamentals tend to break down when his team is greatly over-matched. There's a very simple solution to this problem that has nothing to do with Jason Campbell, and I hope we throw ALL of our resources at the real problem, independent of what the Redskins choose to do with their quarterback.

My biggest point: Campbell is neither the problem, nor the solution to the problem. I think I remember reading that in your Chiefs review as well, so if I stole it from you, I apologize.[/quote]Admittedly, locking on to a receiver could be a presnap issue, but although I believe a trained eye can see a progression in the quarterback, I've never been able to determine if a player is locking on a receiver from the TV feed.

Doesn't mean it isn't happening, it's just that: how would we know? It's easy to see a quarterback look to both sides of the field, then come back to the back, but proving the alternative is far more difficult, and I generally have tried to stay away from it.

In 2007, there was a legitimate belief among most fans where Campbell was locking on Moss an unable to get to the next spot in the progression. However, in two years of breaking down Campbell film, I've never seen him lock on Moss once.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Sam bradford!

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;647708]Admittedly, locking on to a receiver could be a presnap issue, but although I believe a trained eye can see a progression in the quarterback, I've never been able to determine if a player is locking on a receiver from the TV feed.

Doesn't mean it isn't happening, it's just that: how would we know? It's easy to see a quarterback look to both sides of the field, then come back to the back, but proving the alternative is far more difficult, and I generally have tried to stay away from it.

In 2007, there was a legitimate belief among most fans where Campbell was locking on Moss an unable to get to the next spot in the progression. However, in two years of breaking down Campbell film, I've never seen him lock on Moss once.[/quote]

Alright well what about him seeming to stay on one side of the field? If he's using only his eyes to make the reads on the one half he should be fooling some guys, I think that the head movement throws off the coverage, even if on the same side of the field.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;647705]These are all games I broke down as well though. I mean, we've reached different conclusions, apparently, but it's the same tape. And while there's plenty of room for disagreement on the topic of this thread, factual falsehoods are unnecessary to back your point.

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32354-redskins-lost-lions-but-you-still.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32477-redskins-vs-bucs-offensive-review-gamblers.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32693-redskins-panthers-offensive-review-undeserving-title.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32934-redskins-chiefs-offensive-review.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32984-redskins-eagles-offensive-review.html[/URL]

You'll find plenty of critiques of Campbell's play throughout my work, but neither you or I noticed anything about blitz recognition or pre-snap issues.

Everything you mentioned is along the lines of "Campbell left this throw on the table", "He flat out missed this throw", "Needed this third down conversion, Campbell low and behind". Granted.

You never really mentioned anything about pre-snap read or blitz recognition struggles, and this is because they aren't in anyway pronounced. It's a falsification of the evidence.

These are GREAT tape breakdowns. You absolutely did a fantastic job on them and I thought, at the time, that what I was seeing defended your analysis.

But since we both slowed down the tape breakdowns post-bye, it's not like Campbell has all-of-a-sudden developed issues that weren't there in the first half of the year. His pocket presence is still very spotty, and though he has greatly improved his ball control when he gets drilled, he's still not very sure of himself after a play breaks down. His accuracy has been suspect all year. These are measurable things that we can observe, and I don't think there's any reason to make things up.

Anyway, here's Jaws on Campbell from two weeks ago. I don't think he says anything that we don't already know, but I agree with his bottom line conclusion.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002240.html"]washingtonpost.com[/URL]

Campbell has struggled since then, but his fundamentals tend to break down when his team is greatly over-matched. There's a very simple solution to this problem that has nothing to do with Jason Campbell, and I hope we throw ALL of our resources at the real problem, independent of what the Redskins choose to do with their quarterback.

My biggest point: Campbell is neither the problem, nor the solution to the problem. I think I remember reading that in your Chiefs review as well, so if I stole it from you, I apologize.[/quote]

I'm in no way a professional at figuring out what's wrong with JC but I can tell you what I see and what "I" have mentioned after every game ...almost....

1) JC can't read defenses. He fails to pick up blitz's or rotate his protection prior to the snap.

I guess I'm falsifying or making stuff up also, but it's just what I see and interpret.

2) JC throws behind his receivers all the time.

I think he has difficulty knowing where a receiver will be vs. where he's at and getting the ball to that point so he hits them in stride. Again my interpretation.

3) JC throws too high or under throws the ball .... a lot.

4) JC has a strong arm to get the ball down field but thats it. There's no accuracy. If we had receivers who would actually go after the ball if it was with in 5 yrds of them JC might look better. But instead he over throws them...wait I said that already.

5) JC doesn't see the field well. I think I said this one time. But I think others have said this at nausium.

The thing with interpretations is it's the one individuals interpretation. Funny though I had more support from other members on here after the Dallas game.

I know it sounds like I'm bashing JC but actually I have said I wouldn't be against JC being here next yr. I actually think Shanny will tender JC, pick up a QB in the draft, cut Collins, and let whoever is here... JC, Colt, and draft pick battle it out during camp. Shanny owes JC nothing. No guarentees. If tendered JC can't leave so Shanny gets a chance to see what he has to offer in his scheme. I also figured Shanny wouldn't have to pick a QB in the first round. He could pick up a OL. But good QB all go in the first round usually and with in the first few spots. I think now Shanny will want to pick up his QB this year cause it might be the closest we get to a high pick. I would presume next year he will have the team better then 4-12 which would move us down the ladder quite a bit. I could be wrong but just a feeling. First year HC wanting his first yr QB to develope or throw to the wolves.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;647708]Admittedly, locking on to a receiver could be a presnap issue, but although I believe a trained eye can see a progression in the quarterback, I've never been able to determine if a player is locking on a receiver from the TV feed.

Doesn't mean it isn't happening, it's just that: how would we know? It's easy to see a quarterback look to both sides of the field, then come back to the back, but proving the alternative is far more difficult, and I generally have tried to stay away from it.

In 2007, there was a legitimate belief among most fans where Campbell was locking on Moss an unable to get to the next spot in the progression. [B]However, in two years of breaking down Campbell film, I've never seen him lock on Moss once.[/quote][/B]

I think you are correct. Only cause Moss is usually double teamed. Other teams have figured out that Moss is JC's favorite WR. If you double him you take away 80% of JC's threat. However I think your wrong also.... JC back peddles and follows/locks on to Cooley pretty regularly up until Cooley got hurt. Cooley was JC's fail safe. If Moss was not open he had Cooley. I know it's designed this way but JC never looked elsewhere to other open receivers. After Cooley got hurt JC was forced to use other options in the offense ie; Thomas which is why I think he seemed to come along, ARE who seemed to be getting more balls, and Davis who finally shined.

JC still has trouble looking off the Safeties. It's not hard to see. Tell you what watch a Colts game with Peyton Manning then watch a Redskins game and JC. You'll see the difference. Peyton will look left and at the last second look right and make his designated throw or he will lock on to a receiver and pump the ball to them to entice the Safety then immediatly throw the the other side of the field. These are little techniques I fail to see JC using. Which is why I say he also has trouble with the whole counting his steps back peddling, looking for the rush to avoid and going through his progressions. Some where in there he has to use the little techniques to help get his receivers a little more open.

Just like in golf. You just don't go to the course and pick up a club and swing at a ball. There is alot of variables.... which club do you use, how far do you need to hit it, hand placement on the club, size of the clubs, and are you using good technique in your follow through. JC is having trouble with the whole how hard do I need to throw it, how far do I need to throw it, and his technique in regards to throwing motion. Not to mention he has to read the defense prior to the snap and during the play and count his steps while back peddling.

As others have said I'm just not seeing enough progression out of a 5 year player. I don't care how many years he's been backup or injured. He learns the plays like everyone else, he should know how to read defenses unless the coaching staff has not sat him down and coached him which is a possibility since they can't coach WR's or develope them.