Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=jdlea;663923]A 4th overall guy should probably step in and start immediately, but beyond that you don't really know. One would like to think you could get immediate starters in rounds 2-4, but you just don't know after that. To think that 5 starters (for one O Line) are coming out of this draft is dumber than thinking that Colt Brennan is a better prospect than Bradford right now.[/quote]
Agreed.. this year you may have several 2nd round tackles that can step right in.. G/C is more likely in the mid rounds

expecting 4th, 5th, 7th is reaching quite a bit

who the hell wastes all of the picks on one position, unless you're mike ditka, in which case it's also just one player

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Brennan was outperformed by a 5'10", UDFA last training camp and in the pre-season. Campbell will be here this year, we need a veteran back-up (Collins, Garcia, etc.) and we will draft a QB or bring in another UDFA. Brennan won't make the roster.....then we can finally give the Cult their Nikes and send them off to the Hale-Bop comet.

I've said it numerous times before and I'll say it again, Colt Brennan = Timmy Chang.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Yeah good point with Chase Daniel, he had a lot of people saying Colt who?

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Mattyk;663965]Yeah good point with Chase Daniel, he had a lot of people saying Colt who?[/quote]

he won a super bowl his rookie year as well.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

lol @ cult

also, isn't Daniel 6'0" or was that "college height?"

[IMG]http://img154.yfrog.com/img154/2107/f8di.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=jdlea;663918]So, you believe that the Skins should take 5 offensive lineman in the draft and then start all of them?

Is that what your post is saying?

Shanahan has proven that he doesn't have to draft guys high to find good offensive lineman and giant guys don't really fit zone blocking well, so if they decide to go QB in round 1, I'm fine with it because their is finally someone competent making football decisions.[/quote]

No i didnt mean draft 5 olineman and expect them to start, my bad, but we could grab two tackles (with high potential to start) with the 1st two picks, wit Samuels prolly retiring the 1st rounder would be a shoe-in. Then the 2nd rounder whether it be Ducassee or Brown from USC, they would only hafta outperform Heyer (how hard can that be lol). Seems like alot of rumors we'll be fixin the interior of our line with past shanahan guys in FA. use the remaining 3 picks on BPA in RB, LB, DE/NT or categories. Bring in an Undrafted QB if yu want a project.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=tryfuhl;663982]lol @ cult

also, isn't Daniel 6'0" or was that "college height?"[/quote]He was "listed" at 6'. When I went to training camp and saw him....he ain't 6'. I'm 5'10", and I think I'm being generous in giving him the 5'10". But he had great anticipation/timing and placement on his passes in drills.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=tryfuhl;663982]lol @ cult

also, isn't Daniel 6'0" or was that "college height?"

[IMG]http://img154.yfrog.com/img154/2107/f8di.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Where did you get this, SmootSmack's screensaver? LOL.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Ruhskins;663987]Where did you get this, SmootSmack's screensaver? LOL.[/quote]
hahahaha, close enough, it was smoot's homepage:

[url=http://twitter.com/ChaseDaniel]Chase Daniel (ChaseDaniel) on Twitter[/url]

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=tryfuhl;663875]1 throw in each game won't get you there bud[/quote]

But I thought we never had time on the OL to go deep?.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Chase Daniel is the greatest August QB the Jim Zorn era in Washington ever saw. Ever!!

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=PHazard;663984]No i didnt mean draft 5 olineman and expect them to start, my bad, but we could grab two tackles (with high potential to start) with the 1st two picks, wit Samuels prolly retiring the 1st rounder would be a shoe-in. Then the 2nd rounder whether it be Ducassee or Brown from USC, they would only hafta outperform Heyer (how hard can that be lol). Seems like alot of rumors we'll be fixin the interior of our line with past shanahan guys in FA. use the remaining 3 picks on BPA in RB, LB, DE/NT or categories. Bring in an Undrafted QB if yu want a project.[/quote]

I wouldn't have a problem with that. I'm more of a "Trust in Shanahallen" kinda mode right now. I'll be fine with whatever they do, if Shanahan doesn't like a top tackle for his blocking scheme (possible) I'm not going to have a conniption.

At this point, whatever they decide to do, they have patience from me.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=redskins202;663996]But I thought we never had time on the OL to go deep?.[/quote]
Jesus you're dense. Campbell had similar throws. Is he the best at throwing the deep ball? No. Did he hold onto the ball too long/not protect it well enough at times? Sure! I can make any QB look mediocre by picking out a handful of plays a year or speaking on their weaknesses.

Let me explain why it worked for Collins; they didn't expect it. You bring in a backup and they expect you to go a bit easier on him with the throws or to hand the ball off. We surprised two teams with a couple of throws, it happens.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Honestly, the only offensive assumption that I am going to make based off the last two years is that the o-line did not have enough talent.

I don't think anyone can write off Colt from what we have seen. I think they should release Collins because of his age but, at this moment, if you needed someone to come off the bench I think Collins would be the first choice over Colt.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=SmootSmack;663997]Chase Daniel is the greatest August QB the Jim Zorn era in Washington ever saw. Ever!![/quote]

It's no wonder that he single-handedly won the Super Bowl.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=tryfuhl;664001]Jesus you're dense. Campbell had similar throws. Is he the best at throwing the deep ball? No. Did he hold onto the ball too long/not protect it well enough at times? Sure! I can make any QB look mediocre by picking out a handful of plays a year or speaking on their weaknesses.

Let me explain why it worked for Collins; [QUOTE]they didn't expect it[/quote]. [B][quote]You bring in a backup and they expect you to go a bit easier on him with the throws or to hand the ball off. We surprised two teams with a couple of throws, it happens.[/quote][/B][/QUOTE]

Wait that doesnt make sense. Basically your saying it worked because the other team felt he was easier????. I mean you could of just have said " it worked because the OL gave him time on those plays and not for Campbell" but you said it worked because they didn't expect it?. No kidding because with Campbell 77% throws for 10 yards and less I wouldn't expect anything big either.

I mean but I agree on the Campbell part. Campbell isn't a WCO type of QB and regardless of his stats he's best year in my view was 07, he atleast connected on the deep balls alot better and shown more confidence .

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=redskins202;664013]Wait that doesnt make sense. Basically your saying it worked because the other team felt he was easier????. I mean you could of just have said " it worked because the OL gave him time on those plays and not for Campbell" but you said it worked because they didn't expect it?. No kidding because with Campbell 77% throws for 10 yards and less I wouldn't expect anything big either.

I mean but I agree on the Campbell part. Campbell isn't a WCO type of QB and regardless of his stats he's best year in my view was 07, he atleast connected on the deep balls alot better and [B]shown more confidence [/B].[/quote]

How does a qb show confidence when he is regularly battered on three step drops?

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

^^^ part of the problem with JC getting regularly battered on 3 step drops is b/c JC doesnt read blitzes or defenses very well. A 5th year qb should be able to detect a LB lined up outside the RE foaming at the mouth with his ears pinned back. does JC call an audible? no. does JC move a TE over to help levi jones? no.

what happens? JC drops back like he doesnt know the blitzer is coming and gets creamed.

the problem with our protecttion was lack of talent, play calling and JC not reading a blitz or making any formation adjustments pre-snap.

a HC in zorn who was over his head, a qb who doesnt succeed in the mental aspects of playing qb and injuries to an already paper thin OL = 4-12 with one of the worst offenses in the league.

theres plenty of blame to go around imo.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=redskins202;664013]Wait that doesnt make sense. Basically your saying it worked because the other team felt he was easier????. I mean you could of just have said " it worked because the OL gave him time on those plays and not for Campbell" but you said it worked because they didn't expect it?. No kidding because with Campbell 77% throws for 10 yards and less I wouldn't expect anything big either.

I mean but I agree on the Campbell part. Campbell isn't a WCO type of QB and regardless of his stats he's best year in my view was 07, he atleast connected on the deep balls alot better and shown more confidence .[/quote]
The other team didn't expect a bomb on the first play, were probably playing for a run or short pass. I find no reason to continue trying to discuss football with you.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=over the mountain;664045]^^^ part of the problem with JC getting regularly battered on 3 step drops is b/c JC doesnt read blitzes or defenses very well. A 5th year qb should be able to detect a LB lined up outside the RE foaming at the mouth with his ears pinned back. does JC call an audible? no. does JC move a TE over to help levi jones? no.

what happens? JC drops back like he doesnt know the blitzer is coming and gets creamed.

the problem with our protecttion was lack of talent, play calling and JC not reading a blitz or making any formation adjustments pre-snap.

a HC in zorn who was over his head, a qb who doesnt succeed in the mental aspects of playing qb and injuries to an already paper thin OL = 4-12 with one of the worst offenses in the league.

theres plenty of blame to go around imo.[/quote]
word is JC hasn't been allowed to call audibles.. maybe not even protection schemes

he could be a bit more aware though no doubt

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Lotus;664018][B][QUOTE]How does a qb show confidence when he is [B][QUOTE]regularly battered on three step drops?[/quote][/B][/QUOTE][/B][/QUOTE]

This was one bad year for Campbell on the OL. Infact all the other years he had a pretty good OL IDK why your saying he doesn't have confidence?. How could Big Ben and Aaron Rogers get more sacked up than Campbell and say they have no confidence?.

And the OL was bad but please tell me that Campbell didn't make it worst when he couldn't even read a old lady with a cain on a blitz postion coming?.

EDIT: And if he lost confidence it shows what kind of an leader he is. When all the other QB's get sacked or some one like Mcnabb you never hear him or other say " O we'll it was the team and this and that"- Jason Campbell speech.


Mcnabb and others admit they played bad and end up beastin the next week . Campbell doesn't have confidence in him self he's just a back up at best.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=tryfuhl;664057][B][SIZE="7"]The other team didn't expect a bomb on the first play,[/SIZE] were probably playing for a run or short pass. I find no reason to continue trying to discuss football with you.[/B][/quote]

I can't believe you just said that. I know Campbell lovers make excuses but your saying they didn't expect a long play????. Maybe Moss went down field because it was a route in part of a play. Collins went deep because he saw him down field and knew he had "TIME" to do so , he threw it out nice and quickly.


So how come Campbell couldn't go deep on his first plays?. with a 77% COMP rating you would think every team would expect us to do a 10 yarder but if Campbell went deep they surley wouldnt expect it. I mean........wow I'm shocked.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=tryfuhl;664058]word is JC hasn't been allowed to call audibles.. maybe not even protection schemes

he could be a bit more aware though no doubt[/quote]

He doesn't audible because the coaches feel he can't handle it. He did it nicely in 07 with the Dallas game but I mean that tells you alot in why a coach won't let you do any of that. Portis did say Campbell seemed comfused in the huddle some times and that he isn't a leader.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

tryfuhl - ive not heard an absolute answer as to whether JC was allowed to call audibles or protection schemes. i thought last year zorn took the protection calls away from rabach and gave them to JC.

im not making a collins is better argument (hes not) but this past season, collins comes in for JC (i think when he injured his ankle). collins lines up, makes a gesture, the TE moves from the right side to the left side, then we false started.

but it clearly showed that qbs in zorns scheme could call protection adjustments, it also showed me something i havent seen all year from a skins qb, our qb making an adjustment based on what he sees when he lines up behind center.

the very next play after the false start? a long ball completed to moss, thrown on time and accurate. collins got popped right after he threw.

uggghhh i feel dirty for even digging up the past JC debates.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=redskins202;664066]I can't believe you just said that. I know Campbell lovers make excuses but your saying they didn't expect a long play????. Maybe Moss went down field because it was a route in part of a play. Collins went deep because he saw him down field and knew he had "TIME" to do so , he threw it out nice and quickly.


So how come Campbell couldn't go deep on his first plays?. with a 77% COMP rating you would think every team would expect us to do a 10 yarder but if Campbell went deep they surley wouldnt expect it. I mean........wow I'm shocked.[/quote]
You're an idiot, the sooner you get back to ES the better.

This will be the last time that I address you:

1) The pass play was designed to go to Moss, not be a read and pick your best option.. the defense doesn't know before the play that Moss was running a long route, do they? Are you that dumb?

If Campbell went deep on his first play on a designed route every time they'd have plenty of film on it and it would be predictable. Something tells me that you're not even "Madden-level"

later

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I'm so confused. Part of me thinks that if we find the right QB in the draft we have to take him, but if we fix the O-Line we can turn this around quickly, assuming that Kyle Shanahan can coach up Campbell. Honestly right now I'm torn.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

and now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=over the mountain;664069]tryfuhl - ive not heard an absolute answer as to whether JC was allowed to call audibles or protection schemes. i thought last year zorn took the protection calls away from rabach and gave them to JC.

im not making a collins is better argument (hes not) but this past season, collins comes in for JC (i think when he injured his ankle). collins lines up, makes a gesture, the TE moves from the right side to the left side, then we false started.

but it clearly showed that qbs in zorns scheme could call protection adjustments, it also showed me something i havent seen all year from a skins qb, our qb making an adjustment based on what he sees when he lines up behind center.

the very next play after the false start? a long ball completed to moss, thrown on time and accurate. collins got popped right after he threw.

uggghhh i feel dirty for even digging up the past JC debates.[/quote]
That's true, maybe Campbell just didn't call them much.. or maybe they just felt more comfortable letting Collins play as he wished. And yes, Collins looked good on the play, no doubt about that, not taking away anything from him.. or anointing Campbell as our solution, much less savior.

I know Portis said he hasn't seen an audible since Denver and well.. I never see them. That means either both Gibbs and Zorn didn't think that he could handle it or Campbell just neglected to use them. I'd think that if it were the latter Gibbs and Zorn would've corrected that though. Maybe it's just a shared philosophy that their plays should work, who knows?

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=tryfuhl;664077]That's true, maybe Campbell just didn't call them much.. or maybe they just felt more comfortable letting Collins play as he wished. And yes, Collins looked good on the play, no doubt about that, not taking away anything from him.. or anointing Campbell as our solution, much less savior.[/quote]

so much for back to the original topic...

Anybody else remember the furor when Zorn said he would pull Sonny if he changed the play (I would mark that as the official beginning of the end for JZ by the way). If a career back up goes in, what's he got to lose (other than his legs behind last years line). Campbell followed Zorn's plays, for better or for worse.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=redskins202;664061]EDIT: And if he lost confidence it shows what kind of an leader he is. When all the other QB's get sacked or some one like Mcnabb you never hear him or other say " O we'll it was the team and this and that"- Jason Campbell speech.


Mcnabb and others admit they played bad and end up beastin the next week . Campbell doesn't have confidence in him self he's just a back up at best.[/quote]

You don't listen to McNabb too often do you?

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=redskins202;664066]I can't believe you just said that. I know Campbell lovers make excuses but your saying they didn't expect a long play????. Maybe Moss went down field because it was a route in part of a play. Collins went deep because he saw him down field and knew he had "TIME" to do so , he threw it out nice and quickly.


So how come Campbell couldn't go deep on his first plays?. with a 77% COMP rating you would think every team would expect us to do a 10 yarder but if Campbell went deep they surley wouldnt expect it. I mean........wow I'm shocked.[/quote]

Maybe you need a power drill on your skull to get this inside...can't go deep with 2/3 seconds of protection. :frusty:

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=SmootSmack;664098]You don't listen to McNabb too often do you?[/quote]

Only when he says he doesn't know overtime rules and that black quarterbacks have it harder.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I thought this was a Colt Brennan thread. :D

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

^^^ Apparently any thread is fair game for a good JC dispute.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Buster;664108]I thought this was a Colt Brennan thread. :D[/quote]
The thread could be about Pop-Tarts and there would still be JC discussion in it.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

JC likes the frosted berry ones I heard

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Mattyk;664113]JC likes the frosted berry ones I heard[/quote]

Typical Campbell

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Mattyk;664113]JC likes the frosted berry ones I heard[/quote]

Candle should to stick on learning how to rad defenses bestter and not be talking up which Pop Tarts he likes. Obvusly that's why hes getting sacked so much, couldn't get his mind focusd caus hes slow


(Seriously, it's harder to write in that style!)

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;664074]I'm so confused. Part of me thinks that if we find the right QB in the draft we have to take him, but if we fix the O-Line we can turn this around quickly, assuming that Kyle Shanahan can coach up Campbell. Honestly right now I'm torn.[/quote]You're essentially right on both accounts. There's only one wrong answer to this offensive puzzle, and that's taking a quarterback at No. 4, and then assuming that their development will take care of the offense while we retool the defense.

Which, admittedly, is the solution many are proposing. Drafting a QB is going to do nothing to fix the OL, as people propose. Clausen has the same ball-holding tendencies that JC does. Bradford has a shoulder that may or may not ever fully heal, and could have an injury riddled career. You have to fix the OL whether or not you draft a QB, and free agency isn't giving you much help.

A problem that no one is talking about is that we might need to use the 2011 draft to help put together the offense that we began rebuilding with a quarterback in 2010. But even though the 2011 draft is definitely happening (per the CBA)...what if we can't sign any of the players we draft because of the strike? Are we really three years away from getting this QB onto the field? If so, why the rush?

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I'm expecting us to take a QB at #4 who will lead the offense, sack the opposing quarterback, write off my honeymoon as a "team building corporate off-site," select the best movies for me to go see and have a warm Pop Tart ready for me in the morning. Anything less than that and Danny Boy will see my bus patrolling his neighborhood