Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=NC_Skins;781501][B]You confuse me with somebody who cares? [/B]I'm happy for D. Hall, and all the guys that made the pro-bowl. If you want to bitch and complain about us making comments in regards to our players, then expect homer comments. You can cheer on who you like and be happy for them. That doesn't give you the right to question my opinion of such player. That doesn't mean I'm any less of a fan than you are. You chose to see things how you want to, and I chose to see the common view that most people see outside of Redskins nation.
[/quote]

Well obviously you do, otherwise you wouldn't be going through so much trouble to prove your hatred toward DeAngelo Hall.

For the record, I don't live in Redskins Nation. I'm pretty much closer to Panther Nation.


[quote=NC_Skins;781501]Not the "I've been here since 2004" card. Your comparison wasn't remotely in the same ball park, but I guess it is if it suits your argument. A CB that gambles and gets burned/rewarded on a 50/50 basis, isn't the same as a runner that uses the best option each play but can only do so much. D. Hall isn't dependent on 5-7 guys to cover his guy. Barry Sanders relied on 5-7 guys each down to make those runs. It's not the same, and any person with a half a brain knows it.[/quote]

Each player is dependent upon each other to do their job no matter if it's offense or if it's defense. If the defensive line isn't doing their job, it's going to make the secondary's job a lot harder. If the safeties aren't doing their jobs, etc...you hopefully get the idea. At least anybody with half a brain could hopefully see where I'm going with this. :rolleyes:

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

Wow, it' s a good thing I didn't come into this thread to see how the Pro Bowl game went. You guys need a hobby:)

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

Hatred towards D. Hall? That was almost comical. You are probably one of those fans that think the media is out to get the Skins organization to. HATERS!! IF YOU CRITICIZE OUR PLAYERS YOU ARE A HATER!!! Next you'll be saying "if you were a true fan".

[quote=skinsguy;781530]Each player is dependent upon each other to do their job no matter if it's offense or if it's defense. If the defensive line isn't doing their job, it's going to make the secondary's job a lot harder. If the safeties aren't doing their jobs, etc...you hopefully get the idea. At least anybody with half a brain could hopefully see where I'm going with this. :rolleyes:[/quote]

No, each player is dependent on each other to make the unit as a whole, that doesn't mean that every position is dependent on another to be successful. So a CB needs DL in order for him to cover a WR? Might be the first time time in football I've ever heard of that. Unfortunately for you, just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so. A CB doesn't need the defensive line to cover the man he's on. Are they chipping that WR off the line? No, nobody can see where you are going because you are using a bad analogy trying to make your point. If this were a LB we were talking about, you would have a point.

It's obvious that you are just going to argue for the sake of arguing. You are bringing no facts or stats to the table, only sing bad analogies. We'll end this here and agree to disagree.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=hagams;781540]Wow, [B]it' s a good thing I didn't come into this thread[/B] to see how the Pro Bowl game went. You guys need a hobby:)[/quote]

Not unless you bring two to three reasons why D. Hall sucks or is not worthy of the Pro Bowl. [/sarcasm]

LOL. :cool-smil

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

I have actually enjoyed reading this thread. Good back and forth we most vote for a winner later.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=Ruhskins;781527]I don't get why people go so much out of their way to bash a player in their favorite team. Especially since the reason D.Hall went to the Pro Bowl, is because someone backed out. Even still, shouldn't fans of a team be happy that their team is somewhat represented in the Pro Bowl? If I didn't know better, by the way some of these comments are sounding, you'd think that Hall was playing for the Cowboys.[/quote]

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

D-Hall sucks! We want Adam Archuletta and Patrick Ramsey back! They never had a fair chance!



I don't get these people either.

I was excited when Hall made the pick in the end zone. When he made that amazing strip/recovery/TD play, I excitedly proclaimed him MVP at that point. This morning, I heard I was right about his award and I smiled.

It's GREAT that not just Hall, but every one of our Pro-Bowlers were the best-looking defensive players on the field...exhibition or not.

These moaners are probably the same people who predict our team to lose to Dallas in those weekly game threads.

Seriously. Ba a real fan and be proud of the few bright spots we've had this year, heck this decade.

By the way, when the Packers win next Sunday, we'll also be able to proudly say we beat the SB champs this season.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=Ruhskins;781527]I don't get why people go so much out of their way to bash a player in their favorite team. Especially since the reason D.Hall went to the Pro Bowl, is because someone backed out. Even still, shouldn't fans of a team be happy that their team is somewhat represented in the Pro Bowl? If I didn't know better, by the way some of these comments are sounding, you'd think that Hall was playing for the Cowboys.[/quote]


This is the point I'm making. This comment right here. It's like you aren't allowed to question or comment on a player wearing the burgandy and gold. You know, **** that. I'm a huge fan, but I'm also a realist. I don't go out at the beginning of the year thinking OUR TEAM IS GOING TO THE SUPER BOWL. (much like those idiot cowboy fans) No, I realize the strengths and weaknesses of this team and state as much. If I think a player is overrated, I'll say it. Doesn't mean I don't cheer that player on or wish him success. Being a hater involves recognizing no positives while wishing him bad luck.

I don't think anybody is going out of their way to "bash" D. Hall.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

Hate hate hate hate hate hate...hate hate hate...hate hate hate...

[IMG]http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww73/blikestro/chappelle-player-haters-ball.jpg[/IMG]

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=NC_Skins;781549]
I don't think anybody is going out of their way to "bash" D. Hall.[/quote]


Yes they are.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=warpaint;781543]I have actually enjoyed reading this thread. Good back and forth we most vote for a winner later.[/quote]

I vote for Silky Johnson, Hater of the Year.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=NC_Skins;781541]Hatred towards D. Hall? That was almost comical. You are probably one of those fans that think the media is out to get the Skins organization to. HATERS!! IF YOU CRITICIZE OUR PLAYERS YOU ARE A HATER!!! Next you'll be saying "if you were a true fan".[/quote]

Oh geez dude...if you like the guy, I hate to see how you treat your enemies.


[quote=NC_Skins;781541]No, each player is dependent on each other to make the unit as a whole, that doesn't mean that every position is dependent on another to be successful.[/quote]

Here is what I said: [I[B]]Each player is dependent upon each other to do their job no matter if it's offense or if it's defense.[/B][/I] That's what I got through saying Einstein. :doh:


[quote=NC_Skins;781541]So a CB needs DL in order for him to cover a WR? Might be the first time time in football I've ever heard of that. Unfortunately for you, just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so. A CB doesn't need the defensive line to cover the man he's on. Are they chipping that WR off the line? No, nobody can see where you are going because you are using a bad analogy trying to make your point. If this were a LB we were talking about, you would have a point.[/quote]

You obviously completely misunderstood my point, but I have a feeling you're just not worth the effort.




[quote=NC_Skins;781541]It's obvious that you are just going to argue for the sake of arguing. You are bringing no facts or stats to the table, only sing bad analogies. We'll end this here and agree to disagree.[/quote]


You must've been looking the mirror when you typed that last line. Only thing I will agree with you on is to disagree. Tell Offiss I said hello!

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=Ruhskins;781553]I vote for Silky Johnson, Hater of the Year.[/quote]

Not Silky HAHAHA!!!:laughing2

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=NC_Skins;781549]This is the point I'm making. This comment right here. It's like you aren't allowed to question or comment on a player wearing the burgandy and gold. You know, **** that. [B]I'm a huge fan[/B], but I'm also a realist. [B]I don't go out at the beginning of the year thinking OUR TEAM IS GOING TO THE SUPER BOWL.[/B] (much like those idiot cowboy fans) No, I realize the strengths and weaknesses of this team and state as much. If I think a player is overrated, I'll say it. Doesn't mean I don't cheer that player on or wish him success. Being a hater involves recognizing no positives while wishing him bad luck.

[B]I don't think anybody is going out of their way to "bash" D. Hall.[/B][/quote]

Actually most guys here thought the Redskins would go 8-8.

And some guys are going out of their way not to give Hall the praise he deserves. We are all huge fans. You don't fake being a Redskins fan. And you don't last long if your a fair weathered fan.

You don't think Hall is all that great, we get it. But a lot of us do. Yes, we know he's not a "shutdown corner" but some of us love what he brings to the game and the Redskins.

HTTR!!!

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

Hall is good, but not so good that he has earned the, justified or not, "diplomatic immunity" other corners have. And when I say good, I mean adequate.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

I never said I liked or disliked D. Hall. I just want D. Hall to be consistent. Not be incredible for 2 games, and be shitty for 4 or more. It takes more than making that incredible play (which he has) to win me over. Again, I thought Carlos Rogers did better in coverage this year than D. Hall. However, Rogers isn't anywhere near the play maker than Hall is and his next contract will most likely reflect that. I think D. Hall believes he's a better CB than was he is, and not due to lack of talent, but lack of discipline and effort. (the numbers prove this)

He reminds me of Lavar Arrington. He too thought he was better than what he really was and also made those Pro-Bowls based off those amazing plays. What you didn't find out till later that it was his lack of discipline at his position and freelancing is what cost the team games and eventually his starting spot in the rotation. (even backed up by former teammates) To the average fan, he was a pro-bowler and the team's best defensive player. Hence my statement about difference between perception and reality.

[quote=skinsguy;781555]You must've been looking the mirror when you typed that last line. Only thing I will agree with you on is to disagree. Tell Offiss I said hello![/quote]

You got me bro.
[IMG]http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/images/i/i_dont_always_herp_derp-14200.png[/IMG]

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=44ever;781559]Actually most guys here thought the Redskins would go 8-8.

And some guys are going out of their way not to give Hall the praise he deserves. We are all huge fans. You don't fake being a Redskins fan. And you don't last long if your a fair weathered fan.

You don't think Hall is all that great, we get it. But a lot of us do. Yes, we know he's not a "shutdown corner" but some of us love what he brings to the game and the Redskins.

HTTR!!![/quote]



Well said! I don't think D.Hall is all that great either, but I give him props on being voted into the Pro Bowl. I also felt at best the 'skins would be 8-8 by season's end. Not sure who, if anybody, thought the Redskins were going to the Super Bowl this year. Sounds kind of delusional to me.

We've seen a lot of fair-weathered fans come and go on this board.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=NC_Skins;781562]I never said I liked or disliked D. Hall. I just want D. Hall to be consistent. Not be incredible for 2 games, and be shitty for 4 or more. It takes more than making that incredible play (which he has) to win me over. Again, I thought Carlos Rogers did better in coverage this year than D. Hall. However, Rogers isn't anywhere near the play maker than Hall is and his next contract will most likely reflect that. I think D. Hall believes he's a better CB than was he is, and not due to lack of talent, but lack of discipline and effort. (the numbers prove this)[/quote]

And again, I never said that D. Hall is the greatest, but I give him props on being voted to the Pro Bowl. Doesn't matter what you consider perspective or reality, the reality was/is, he was voted to the Pro Bowl making him a Pro Bowl CB this year. Plain and simple. Argue the numbers all you like, but that's the fact and that's what I am trying to say. He might stink it up next year, might make it to another Pro Bowl. Who knows? But I'll keep saying it, I'll give any Redskins player props who is considered for a high personal honor.

[quote=NC_Skins;781562]He reminds me of Lavar Arrington. He too thought he was better than what he really was and also made those Pro-Bowls based off those amazing plays. What you didn't find out till later that it was his lack of discipline at his position and freelancing is what cost the team games and eventually his starting spot in the rotation. (even backed up by former teammates) To the average fan, he was a pro-bowler and the team's best defensive player. Hence my statement about difference between perception and reality.
[/quote]

Lavar was great until he got injured and freelancing isn't always a bad thing in certain defenses, it just didn't work in Gregg Williams' defense. By the time he got to NY, he was already washed up. He never fully recovered from his injury. But, I won't say he didn't deserve Pro Bowl honors when he was voted in. I won't take that away from the guy, but I recognized when his career was over.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=skinsguy;781565]Well said! I don't think D.Hall is all that great either, but I give him props on being voted into the Pro Bowl. I also felt at best the 'skins would be 8-8 by season's end. Not sure who, if anybody, thought the Redskins were going to the Super Bowl this year. Sounds kind of delusional to me.

We've seen a lot of fair-weathered fans come and go on this board.[/quote]

Call me delusional but to be honest I think we are going to the Super Bowl every year.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=warpaint;781571]Call me delusional but to be honest I think we are going to the Super Bowl every year.[/quote]

Not every year but next year for sure! ;)

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=44ever;781572]Not every year but next year for sure! ;)[/quote]

:food-smil For sure next year is a lock.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=NC_Skins;781490]Have they changed much in terms of him being high on the list of catches allowed, yards allowed, and TDs allowed? Has anything changed over the past 2 years that suddenly vaulted him into the elite category of corner backs? I'll retract that if you can prove it to be wrong.


[URL="http://www.espn980.com/blogs/chris.php"]ESPN 980 - Home of the Redskins[/URL]



Doesn't look like they've changed much to me. Thought dude prior said his play hasn't cost us games?...lol[/quote]

First off I don't even know where to find the stats but if I did I use current stats so it does not look like I'm cherry picking stats to support my position.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

All this fighting over D.Hall? Is it possible to just agree that Hall is a 50/50 corner, he will make plays and give up plays. Look at it like this: bad corners not only can't cover, they can't make a play to save their life. At least D.Hall has one of those angles covered. He can be a positive or negative difference maker any day of the week. With a solid cover corner like Rogers on the other side, I think it's a pretty decent combination.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

For better or worse the defenses main goal this year was to create turnovers. In that respect Hall is among the leagues top players. I guess the main thing is to try and avoid matchups with likely third down targets unless we're down and in need of a game changing play.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=mooby;781599]All this fighting over D.Hall? [B]Is it possible to just agree that Hall is a 50/50 corner, [/B]he will make plays and give up plays. Look at it like this: bad corners not only can't cover, they can't make a play to save their life. At least D.Hall has one of those angles covered. He can be a positive or negative difference maker any day of the week. With a solid cover corner like Rogers on the other side, I think it's a pretty decent combination.[/quote]

75/25 and you got a deal. Just as we say give our QB a better Offense to work with, I say give D. Hall a better Defense to work with. Also, D. Hall thrives in a cover 2 type defense.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

Hall is better than what most of you think. You just don't luck into 4 interceptions in one game.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

Actually he lucked into a few of them that game. Props for being able to hold onto them though lol

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=tryfuhl;781609]Actually he lucked into a few of them that game. Props for being able to hold onto them though lol[/quote]

Some call it luck, some call it ball awareness. Argument seems pointless at this point.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=44ever;781610]Some call it luck, some call it ball awareness. Argument seems pointless at this point.[/quote]

I'm not his biggest fan but I have to agree 44. He's not in a position to make INT's by accident. He LOOKS to make them. Sometimes this may cause him to get beat...but I'll take all the TO's we can get.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=53Fan;781611]I'm not his biggest fan but I have to agree 44. He's not in a position to make INT's by accident. He LOOKS to make them. Sometimes this may cause him to get beat...but I'll take all the TO's we can get.[/quote]

I've said this in the past, the INTs by Hall would have been more meaningful if the offense would have actually turned those turnovers into points. Unfortunately they didn't turn those TOs into points, so a lot of those INTs were for nothing (literally).

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

This is intended as a positive and a negative (not just a negative), but I think "2011 Pro Bowl MVP" might be the perfect honor to bestow on a player with DeAngelo Hall's career. It's fitting.

Hall will always have value as long as he puts the ball in the end zone on defense. But it's hard for me to fathom a significant improvement in our pass D with him in his current role. You've just got to take the positive with the negative with Hall. He brought a ton of both in 2010, a rather memorable year for him in a forgettable year for the Redskins.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=Ruhskins;781614]I've said this in the past, the INTs by Hall would have been more meaningful if the offense would have actually turned those turnovers into points. Unfortunately they didn't turn those TOs into points, so a lot of those INTs were for nothing (literally).[/quote]Well, the field position we get on his INTs has value in terms of winning the game, even if the team doesn't move the ball. Maybe less value now that our punt returner is a home run threat, but 5 of Hall's 6 INTs this year had value (exception: the Philly hail mary).

Hall's issue isn't that his INTs aren't paid off by the offense, its that he gives his offense field position, then does a lot to take it away the rest of the game. But he's made measurable improvements against the run, and so a lot of short completions against him go for meaningless amounts of yardage. He's improved a lot against short passes.

I think the biggest issue for Hall's apologists is that many don't seem to want to admit that most teams have a corner who is more valuable than Hall. Sometimes, as an analyst, it's frustrating to see people ignore reality by such a gap as is frequent with Hall. Sometimes, people have to put down Rogers to make Hall look better, which seems really silly to me (I suppose you could say the same about the reverse). But he's a valuable player, and though I think one of the ways to improve the defense would be to use Hall differently (or not at all), I definitely wouldn't want to give back the big plays he gives us while looking for an upgrade.

When Hall pulls the ball out, he usually aims to score. Our defense did none of that under Blache, and it hurt my brain.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

A stat that might surprise some people is that Hall doesn't actually intercept passes at a higher rate than the average corner who gets thrown at as many times as he does. Or at least that was the case from 2004-2009. I doubt it's different now with 6 picks in about 105 targets this year: that's pretty standard for the position.

It would be false to say that Hall creates INT opportunities. He does not.

But Hall is in rarefied air on his INT returns: he's just better at them than most guys in the league. Both in terms of yards and scores.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=warpaint;781571]Call me delusional but to be honest I think we are going to the Super Bowl every year.[/quote]

I haven't quite gotten there yet! Now, if you're talking to me back in the 80's, I'd definitely agree, we'd be a sure bet for the Super Bowl every year! :food-smil

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

All I really wanted to say about Hall this whole time is the dude got Pro Bowl honors which IS a high honor in the NFL, no matter what a bunch of fans may think about the game itself. A player being a "pro bowl" caliber player seems to be important when we talk about free agents, why would it be different in Hall's case?

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

Full disclosure, I'm a D. Hall fan.. In the landscape of the NFL he's probably an ordinary corner that does extraordinary things. He's got playmaking ability most corners lack, he has makeup speed that's not elite but a slight notch below, he has good route recognition (most of the time) and isn't afraid to step up and make a tackle.

I think his detractors see the plays he makes and chalks them up to luck and focus on his celebrations and see him as a Deion wannabe with nowhere near the talent. If a pass is completed on him or he gets beat for a TD then 'Ah, he sucks!'. In what his strengths are-making plays on the ball, turning INT and fumble returns into points or flipping field position, stepping in and making tackles-he's probably in the top 5 in the league. In the areas he struggles in, man to man with his back to the QB, taking risks and playing trail position-he's average.

End of the day, I'll take the reward that he brings at the expense of the risk of giving up some receptions.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=Paintrain;781630]Full disclosure, I'm a D. Hall fan.. In the landscape of the NFL he's probably an ordinary corner that does extraordinary things. He's got playmaking ability most corners lack, he has makeup speed that's not elite but a slight notch below, he has good route recognition (most of the time) and isn't afraid to step up and make a tackle.

I think his detractors see the plays he makes and chalks them up to luck and focus on his celebrations and see him as a Deion wannabe with nowhere near the talent. If a pass is completed on him or he gets beat for a TD then 'Ah, he sucks!'. In what his strengths are-making plays on the ball, turning INT and fumble returns into points or flipping field position, stepping in and making tackles-he's probably in the top 5 in the league. In the areas he struggles in, man to man with his back to the QB, taking risks and playing trail position-he's average.

End of the day, I'll take the reward that he brings at the expense of the risk of giving up some receptions.[/quote]

I agree with a lot of this. Overall, I think Los and Hall actually complement each other very well, and even though our D had some rough moments, I hope we keep both. Hall has outstanding hands and QB's know that if he's in the area they need to be careful with their throws. That's an asset in Pass Defense if it makes the QB hesitate or re-scan. Los, may not make QB's fear throwing his way, but he can keep his receivers covered very well. This can and has caused problems for opposing QBs and there is a reason PB was getting thrown on as much as he was. Out of all the defensive positions, I would think CB is not one we should be spending a lot of draft or FA effort on.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;781646]I agree with a lot of this. [B]Overall, I think Los and Hall actually complement each other very well, and even though our D had some rough moments, I hope we keep both.[/B] Hall has outstanding hands and QB's know that if he's in the area they need to be careful with their throws. That's an asset in Pass Defense if it makes the QB hesitate or re-scan. Los, may not make QB's fear throwing his way, but he can keep his receivers covered very well. This can and has caused problems for opposing QBs and there is a reason PB was getting thrown on as much as he was. Out of all the defensive positions, I would think CB is not one we should be spending a lot of draft or FA effort on.[/quote]

Me too, I think they make a great tandem. Great posts by you and PT, agree 1000 percent. If we could get more consistent pressure on the QB, I think int numbers would increase for both. I believe the only thing lack is consistent play at the FS position. If we could get a fast, all-over-the-field type player at free, Id put Hall, Los, and Landry up against any secondary in the league.

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=Chico23231;781651]Me too, I think they make a great tandem. Great posts by you and PT, agree 1000 percent. If we could get more consistent pressure on the QB, I think int numbers would increase for both. I believe the only thing lack is consistent play at the FS position. [B]If we could get a fast, all-over-the-field type player at free,[/B] Id put Hall, Los, and Landry up against any secondary in the league.[/quote]

I was sure for awhile Khareem Moore was going to be that guy. After his injury the wheels seem like they just fell off. I still miss ST. HTTR <3 #21

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[IMG]http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/dhallmvp.jpg[/IMG]

Im sending one to NC_Skins. ASAP...

Re: D. Hall is our lone Pro Bowl selection
 

[quote=Chico23231;781651]Me too, I think they make a great tandem. Great posts by you and PT, agree 1000 percent. [B]If we could get more consistent pressure on the QB, I think int numbers would increase for both.[/B] I believe the only thing lack is consistent play at the FS position. If we could get a fast, all-over-the-field type player at free, Id put Hall, Los, and Landry up against any secondary in the league.[/quote]

That's exactly what I was trying to say to NC_Skins yesterday.