Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791201]I don't think KS really wants to give the job to Rex. I think he's comfortable with him above the other current choices, meaning Beck and McNabb but his preference is someone not on the roster[/quote]I want to believe you, I really do and I take solace in the fact that they didn't re-sign Rex right away.

But, it troubles me that Kyle or any OC might feel more comfortable with Rex regardless of wether he knows the offense or not.

I would rather see Beck try to hold off a rookie QB of the future.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

Hmmmmm...the Bengals have Dan LeFevour. I wanted to draft him.


Lets do it. McNabb for LeFevour and a 3rd-round pick.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

Personally I would love to see us draft a qb in the second round. I think Colin Kaepernick would be a HUGE steal with the 41st pick. Dude is a freak with great character. Not only does he have a cannon of an arm and 4.4 speed but also scored a 37 on the wonderlic (has the smarts to be a NFL qb) and has no off the field issues. Also, he's shown he can do it against the best college has to offer, helped Nevada knock of Boise St. and killed it at the Senior Bowl. Give him a year (or two) and he could be an excellent NFL QB.

There is a great piece about Kaep. on the front page of NFL.com.

Also, in their most recent mock draft, NFL.com has him going to the skins at pick 41.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

Kaep would be an interesting choice, and tempting I'm sure for the Skins. But he seems even more raw than Locker

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

From observation I gather most will agree the Redskins need a QB. However, the method by which we fulfill that need raises many questions and opinions.

There's nothing more difficult than evaluating a QB, especially one coming out of college.
This [PDF] while lengthly, offers an interesting conglomeration of facts, observations and conclusions, many of which we are already familiar.

[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biostat.umn.edu%2Fftp%2Fpub%2F2010%2Frr2010-022.pdf&ei=m3KYTZGpIsPB0QGRm_nkCw&usg=AFQjCNEBk1O3my-bmcmHIVJkGKB9DJwGLQ&sig2=E2ypBaFaxL5i6-eynNvj0A[/url]

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Longtimefan;791769]From observation I gather most will agree the Redskins need a QB. However, the method by which we fulfill that need raises many questions and opinions.

There's nothing more difficult than evaluating a QB, especially one coming out of college.
This [PDF] while lengthly, offers an interesting conglomeration of facts, observations and conclusions, many of which we are already familiar.

[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biostat.umn.edu%2Fftp%2Fpub%2F2010%2Frr2010-022.pdf&ei=m3KYTZGpIsPB0QGRm_nkCw&usg=AFQjCNEBk1O3my-bmcmHIVJkGKB9DJwGLQ&sig2=E2ypBaFaxL5i6-eynNvj0A[/url][/quote]

Interesting article. The conclusion that, in the end, stats don't help to predict an inherently unpredictable draft decision will be maddening for some, enlightening for others. I found it enlightening.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

I'm starting to think highly of this kaepernick kid also

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791781]I'm starting to think highly of this kaepernick kid also[/quote]

Okie, I know you like Locker, but Shanny may prefer Kaep because Kaep has accuracy both in and out of the pocket.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

Wow, seriously?! I've only been teetering on a mancrush with Kaepernick awhile now. How long did it take for you guys to read my posts and wake up?!?

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=SkinzWin;791788]Wow, seriously?! I've only been teetering on a mancrush with Kaepernick awhile now. How long did it take for you guys to read my posts and wake up?!?[/quote]

All I said was that Shanny may like Kaep better than Locker.

Kaep has some tools but he really needs some seasoning before he's doing anything in the NFL, if then.

I'd still rather have Ponder.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

Skinswinz I give u credit about CK you have sold me on him..

Lotus I agree that he has some more accuracy but Jakes accuracy isn't as bad as ppl think.. I'd love to draft him but I don't see us getting him unless it's at 10

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Lotus;791793]All I said was that Shanny may like Kaep better than Locker.

Kaep has some tools but he really needs some seasoning before he's doing anything in the NFL, if then.

I'd still rather have Ponder.[/quote]

No you wouldn't. (Jedi hand wave) You want Kaepernick. Kaepernick is better. You will be my second convert.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=SkinzWin;791801]No you wouldn't. (Jedi hand wave) You want Kaepernick. Kaepernick is better. You will be my second convert.[/quote]

I'll keep an open mind. But I am a tough sell. Ponder has been my guy for months.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

For what it's worth we've been underrating Locker in terms of accuracy. I was listening to the First Draft podcast today and one NFL GM told McShay that they had Locker as a 70% passer when he's outside the pocket and throwing on the run. Maybe other GM's have him slightly lower but the general consensus is that most of them have never seen a QB prospect that's as accurate as Locker when he's outside the pocket and on the run. The real problem is getting him comfortable in the pocket. If you can develop that you'll have a franchise QB.

I'm calling it now. Locker will be the Skins first pick in the draft. If Tebow is a first round pick, then Locker certainly is and I have to imagine that Shanahan is salivating over the prospect of adding Locker.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791813]For what it's worth we've been underrating Locker in terms of accuracy.[/quote]

;) Speak for yourself.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=30gut;791870];) Speak for yourself.[/quote]

Come on. 70% outside the pocket has to count for something. I'm dying here. We're going to draft this guy and I'm still thinking in the back of my mind that he's just a younger version of McNabb.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791871]Come on. 70% outside the pocket has to count for something. I'm dying here. We're going to draft this guy and [B]I'm still thinking in the back of my mind that he's just a younger version of McNabb[/B].[/quote]

Why is that a good thing when the actual McNabb was a failure in this offense?

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791871]Come on. 70% outside the pocket has to count for something. I'm dying here. We're going to draft this guy and I'm still thinking in the back of my mind that he's just a younger version of McNabb.[/quote]

Of course 70% outside the pocket is excellent. It is what happens inside the pocket which makes Locker worrisome.

Why not take a QB like Kaep who is accurate both in and out of the pocket? I'm not sure that Shanny isn't thinking the same thing.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791871]Come on. 70% outside the pocket has to count for something. I'm dying here. We're going to draft this guy and I'm still thinking in the back of my mind that he's just a younger version of McNabb.[/quote]

I think he means speak for yourself in terms of underrating him

And this is for SkinzWin

[url=http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6158666]Colin Kaepernick's Accuracy - ESPN Video - ESPN[/url]

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791871]Come on. 70% outside the pocket has to count for something. I'm dying here. We're going to draft this guy and I'm still thinking in the back of my mind that he's just a younger version of McNabb.[/quote]Locker is my favorite QB prospect in this class [I][B][U]if[/U][/B][/I] Kyle is gonna run a version of the offense more in keeping with a traditional Mike Shanahan Denver WCO as opposed to the pass heavy Texan's version that Kyle favors.

I actually agree with that Locker's accuracy from outside the pocket is excellent, it was my failed attempt at humor but not everyone has doubted Locker's accuracy.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

Anyone psyched for the big game on Wednesday in a Minnesota courtroom?

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

Happy Failed McNabb Trade Day everyone :doh:

[quote]Redskins.com
From the "How things have changed" department: One year ago today, #Redskins stunned everyone by trading for #Eagles QB Donovan McNabb.[/quote]

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Lotus;791893]Anyone psyched for the big game on Wednesday in a Minnesota courtroom?[/quote]

I am......at least its some kind of progress towards resolving this mess.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Mattyk;791880]Why is that a good thing when the actual McNabb was a failure in this offense?[/quote]

It's not a good thing. I think that Shanahan views Locker as a younger version of McNabb, except this time he won't be set in his ways and much more open to coaching, and hopes that that alone will be the difference between the two.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791884]I think he means speak for yourself in terms of underrating him

And this is for SkinzWin

[URL="http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6158666"]Colin Kaepernick's Accuracy - ESPN Video - ESPN[/URL][/quote]

Why again is this guy not a 1st round talent?

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/04/kiper-says-locker-wouldve-gone-no-4-overall-last-year/]Kiper says Locker would’ve gone No. 4 overall last year | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791936]Why again is this guy not a 1st round talent?[/quote]

QB's don't need to have first round grades to go in the first. If he gets into the second round he won't last long. Teams looking for second round QB's should target Mallet. Stanzi and Ponder will be for teams looking QB in the third round.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791936]Why again is this guy not a 1st round talent?[/quote]

People overlook small schools like Nevada IMO. Everyone knocks conferences like that WAC. Everyone wants an SEC powerhouse player.

SS, thanks for the link.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

Like I said Dalton will likely be a first round pick.
[quote]Q: Todd McShay's latest mock draft has the Minnesota Vikings taking Andy Dalton with their second-round pick. Although Dalton has far more experience than Tarvaris Jackson did -- when the Vikes took him in the second round -- don't you think Minnesota needs to take a QB in the first round, even if it trades down?

-- Jeff (Minn.)

A: Jeff: I don't think Dalton will be there when the Vikings' turn comes around in round two. My sense -- there's that word again because there are so few absolutes surrounding the draft -- is Dalton goes somewhere between 25 and 35 overall, to a team that trades up to get him. If Minnesota believes it can wait around to get Dalton in round two, I think it'll be disappointed.[/quote]

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

Dalton can play

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791936]Why again is this guy not a 1st round talent?[/quote]Does it really matter what the answer is? You won't accept it anyway.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Mattyk;791880]Why is that a good thing when the actual McNabb was a failure in this offense?[/quote]

McNabb was a borderline HOF caliber QB and to pretend otherwise is pure revisionism.

I think Locker is a quicker athlete then McNabb more of a fast twitch, light footed and nimble.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

I have never seen a player more highly touted that didn't show much in his actual gameplay as Jake Locker. Even in his bowl win against the Cornhuskers he did it with his feet, while his passing game was non existent. When was the last time a QB not known for his arm won a SB? Locker seems to have a good head on his shoulders, but his passing game sucks. He isn't as athletic as Vick, and Vick couldn't get the job done even in Philly. The guy throws a ton of INTs also. To be honest, I would draft Dan Persa out of Northwestern before Locker. If Persa didn't get hurt against Purdue he had a great shot to be Big Ten MVP. That guy is almost like Vick and his passes were way more crisper than anything I have seen Locker do. Not saying we should go for Persa in 2012, but he was a better QB than Locker in 2011. Way better in fact.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;792022]I have never seen a player more highly touted that didn't show much in his actual gameplay as Jake Locker. Even in his bowl win against the Cornhuskers he did it with his feet, while his passing game was non existent. When was the last time a QB not known for his arm won a SB? Locker seems to have a good head on his shoulders, but his passing game sucks.[/quote]I can tell you right now that if you look at Locker's production to figure out what type of QB he is you'll never understand it.

People like you that think evaluating a QB prospect is the same thing as looking at stats/production will never undestand why Locker is a top QB prospect.

Production is a function of the [I][B]team's[/B][/I] scheme, talent, pass protection etc.

QB are judged not on their teams merits i.e. stats/production but by their own merits: accuracy, arm strength, athleticism/escapability, experience, drop-back/footwork, throwing mechanics, toughness, size, etc moreso then stats.

LoL, the Nebraska [I][B]WIN[/B][/I]?
You know the top prospect Gabbert lost against Nebraska?

If you watched the game you would know that the cornhuskers defense great the Washington OL and WRs were completely outmatched.

Yet, Locker used his legs and made a some clutch throws to win the game.
But, in stat land, yeah what a terrible [I][B]WIN[/B][/I].

BTW-Here's a stat for you: Matt Stafford (56.6%) was considered by everyone to be a cleaner prospect then Locker but guess what? Locker comp% in Sarkisians offense is 56.8%.


[quote=Pat Kirwan:][B][I][COLOR="DarkOrange"]A Pac-10 defensive coordinator who faced Washington this season and asked about Locker and the Huskies' offense. His first reaction: "Locker had no one in front of him, yet he threw for a ton of yards and killed us with his feet."[/COLOR][/I][/B] [/quote]

[B][SIZE="3"]Upon further review, Locker should be late first-round pick[/SIZE][/B]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f10f61/article/upon-further-review-locker-should-be-late-firstround-pick?module=HP_spotlight]NFL.com news: Upon further review, Locker should be late first-round pick[/url]

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=30gut;792028]I can tell you right now that if you look at Locker's production to figure out what type of QB he is you'll never understand it.

People like you that think evaluating a QB prospect is the same thing as looking at stats/production will never undestand why Locker is a top QB prospect.

Production is a function of the [I][B]team's[/B][/I] scheme, talent, pass protection etc.

QB are judged not on their teams merits i.e. stats/production but by their own merits: accuracy, arm strength, athleticism/escapability, experience, drop-back/footwork, throwing mechanics, toughness, size, etc moreso then stats.

LoL, the Nebraska [I][B]WIN[/B][/I]?
You know the top prospect Gabbert lost against Nebraska?

If you watched the game you would know that the cornhuskers defense great the Washington OL and WRs were completely outmatched.

Yet, Locker used his legs and made a some clutch throws to win the game.
But, in stat land, yeah what a terrible [I][B]WIN[/B][/I].

BTW-Here's a stat for you: Matt Stafford (56.6%) was considered by everyone to be a cleaner prospect then Locker but guess what? Locker comp% in Sarkisians offense is 56.8%.




[B][SIZE="3"]Upon further review, Locker should be late first-round pick[/SIZE][/B]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f10f61/article/upon-further-review-locker-should-be-late-firstround-pick?module=HP_spotlight]NFL.com news: Upon further review, Locker should be late first-round pick[/url][/quote]

Mmmm, fresh Kool Aid. The Locker movement is now regaining momentum. Also don't forget his 70% completion percentage outside the pocket. I swear I am going to get on board with this guy and become the biggest Locker fan out there. I might not be there yet but I'm getting on the highway.

Anyway, at least with Shanahan at least he has a chance of developing into a top flight QB. If he goes to Seattle or Minnesota he'll most likely bust. If Locker is going to succeed at the NFL level he's going to need an offensive guru. Luckily in spite of last years performance we have two on staff.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;792029]Mmmm, fresh Kool Aid. The Locker movement is now regaining momentum. Also don't forget his 70% completion percentage outside the pocket. I swear I am going to get on board with this guy and become the biggest Locker fan out there. I might not be there yet but I'm getting on the highway.

Anyway, at least with Shanahan at least he has a chance of developing into a top flight QB. If he goes to Seattle or Minnesota he'll most likely bust. If Locker is going to succeed at the NFL level he's going to need an offensive guru. Luckily in spite of last years performance we have two on staff.[/quote]

Yeah be a Locker geek. Kaepernick is only that good in or outside the pocket and has better scrambling ability to stretch the play. But Kaepernick isn't better. Oh wait, he is.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=SkinzWin;792033]Yeah be a Locker geek. Kaepernick is only that good in or outside the pocket and has better scrambling ability to stretch the play. But Kaepernick isn't better. Oh wait, he is.[/quote]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;792029]Mmmm, fresh Kool Aid. The Locker movement is now regaining momentum. Also don't forget his 70% completion percentage outside the pocket. I swear I am going to get on board with this guy and become the biggest Locker fan out there. I might not be there yet but I'm getting on the highway.

Anyway, at least with Shanahan at least he has a chance of developing into a top flight QB. If he goes to Seattle or Minnesota he'll most likely bust. If Locker is going to succeed at the NFL level he's going to need an offensive guru. Luckily in spite of last years performance we have two on staff.[/quote]Locker is my favorite prospect in this QB draft class but he's not the only prospect I like nor does it mean I think the other prospects aren't good either.

I like Locker because of the combination of arm and playmaking which are the 2 traits I value most in a QB prospect; also I like that he's played under more duress/ adverse circumstances then the other prospects. (The NFL isn't pitch and catch)

Without getting to boring with details I'll put it like this: there are 4 QBs with NFL size and elite arms and 2 of those QBs are also elite playmakers. (Gabbert, Newton, Locker, Mallett)

There is another group that lacks elite arms but have good NFL traits and are arguably more polished QBs then all but one of the top tier. (Ponder, Dalton, Stanzi)

Then there are 2 outliers that fall somewhere between.
Kaep has elite arm but a major throwing hitch and for me personally I like a QB that has clean throwing motion then there's Tyrod who is a more polished QB but has average physical traits but elite playmaking.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;792034]I find your lack of faith disturbing.[/quote]

Oppositely the same as I find yours.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Quarterbacks
 

The Quarterback no one bothers to talk about has a dream of being "the man" ....soon he'll awake.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/beck-wants-to-be-the-guy/2011/04/21/AFttP5NE_blog.html]Beck wants to be ‘the guy’ - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]