Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

Speaking of Reed, has he answered the questions you submitted him Matty?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

reed doughty is a backup, so naturally the expectations of play when replacing a pro bowl caliber player are often lofty and unattainable for a physically limited player. He did about as well as could be expected, but thats about it. He can fill in in a pinch, but hopefully going forward, that is all we use him for.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;835082]We have no good coverage safeties (unless there is something about Gomes nobody knows about yet). Some are worse at coverage than others. W/out breaking down the film and cataloguing the plays, but, rather relying only on what I observed in the course of a game, Landry is less of a coverage liability than Doughty. Further, Landry's hit's and tackles seem (though I don't know for sure) to be closer to the line of scrimmage and allow for less YAC.

I believe this is b/c Landry is simply faster, stronger and more athletic than Doughty. Thus, while Landry and Doughty both make lots of tackles due to the scheme, Landry's effectiveness in coverage and his stopping ability in both the run and passing game (including blitzing) is much, much higher than Doughty's effectiveness.

From what I can tell, this is due to Landry's ability to close more quickly than Doughty and Landry's better strength & athleticism that allows him to move more easily through traffic. Neither cover well, but Landry "covers" for his coverage errors with his make up speed. Bottom line, however, when it comes to coverage, neither Doughty nor Landry seem (to me) to have particularly good intincts or technique.

Love Doughty for lots of reasons, but to say there isn't a significant drop off between he and Landry seems silly to me. He is, at best, Landry light.[/quote]

This. Perfectly argued. The only flaw is that you failed to mention that Gomes is the greatest safety drafted by the Skins in 2011.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;835082]We have no good coverage safeties (unless there is something about Gomes nobody knows about yet). Some are worse at coverage than others. W/out breaking down the film and cataloguing the plays, but, rather relying only on what I observed in the course of a game, Landry is less of a coverage liability than Doughty. Further, Landry's hit's and tackles seem (though I don't know for sure) to be closer to the line of scrimmage and allow for less YAC.

I believe this is b/c Landry is simply faster, stronger and more athletic than Doughty. Thus, while Landry and Doughty both make lots of tackles due to the scheme, Landry's effectiveness in coverage and his stopping ability in both the run and passing game (including blitzing) is much, much higher than Doughty's effectiveness.

From what I can tell, this is due to Landry's ability to close more quickly than Doughty and Landry's better strength & athleticism that allows him to move more easily through traffic. Neither cover well, but Landry "covers" for his coverage errors with his make up speed. Bottom line, however, when it comes to coverage, neither Doughty nor Landry seem (to me) to have particularly good intincts or technique.

Love Doughty for lots of reasons, but to say there isn't a significant drop off between he and Landry seems silly to me. He is, at best, Landry light.[/quote]


Pretty much spot on there JR on all points.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;835082]We have no good coverage safeties (unless there is something about Gomes nobody knows about yet). Some are worse at coverage than others. W/out breaking down the film and cataloguing the plays, but, rather relying only on what I observed in the course of a game, Landry is less of a coverage liability than Doughty. Further, Landry's hit's and tackles seem (though I don't know for sure) to be closer to the line of scrimmage and allow for less YAC.

I believe this is b/c Landry is simply faster, stronger and more athletic than Doughty. Thus, while Landry and Doughty both make lots of tackles due to the scheme, Landry's effectiveness in coverage and his stopping ability in both the run and passing game (including blitzing) is much, much higher than Doughty's effectiveness.

From what I can tell, this is due to Landry's ability to close more quickly than Doughty and Landry's better strength & athleticism that allows him to move more easily through traffic. Neither cover well, but Landry "covers" for his coverage errors with his make up speed. Bottom line, however, when it comes to coverage, neither Doughty nor Landry seem (to me) to have particularly good intincts or technique.

Love Doughty for lots of reasons, but to say there isn't a significant drop off between he and Landry seems silly to me. He is, at best, Landry light.[/quote]

Maybe we should have taken a stab at Brandon Merriweather? Or maybe we should have taken a longer look at Davonte Shannon and/or Anderson Russell? Or maybe we need to go shopping for a safety and drop one of the 3 WRs we're not even dressing each week?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

Oh, that I would lay down my life....to stop hearing about Doughty.


:Flush:

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

TW - WTF?? Brutal game. Got abused almost every play even when he had double team help. This is the #4 pick? The guy who got $60M? The guy who has the biggest cap hit on our team ($10M)?? Somebody better wake this kid up, he looked like Heyer out there.

Secondary - D was good overall but our secondary looks vulnerable. When we play a team with a good OL and QB, they're gonna rip our secondary to shreds. I don't hate Doughty but he's a liability in coverage. We need Landry back asap and even then I'm not sure we'll be ok back there. We need a consistent pass rush to take some of the pressure off.

OL - new season, same old story. Considering we hardly addressed this unit in the offseason it's not a surprise. Good D's are just gonna send the house and Rexy will be running for his life (and fumbling along the way). And I saw no real push for the running game. OL remains a work in progress, continuing the 20-year theme...

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=polywog;835153]Oh, that I would lay down my life....to stop hearing about Doughty.


:Flush:[/quote]

I dont know what yal were looking at, Reed was all over the field Sunday making plays every where, he was a freak, a manchild, he even caught a pass from Rex.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;835751]TW - WTF?? Brutal game. Got abused almost every play even when he had double team help. This is the #4 pick? The guy who got $60M? The guy who has the biggest cap hit on our team ($10M)?? Somebody better wake this kid up, he looked like Heyer out there.

Secondary - D was good overall but our secondary looks vulnerable. When we play a team with a good OL and QB, they're gonna rip our secondary to shreds. I don't hate Doughty but he's a liability in coverage. We need Landry back asap and even then I'm not sure we'll be ok back there. We need a consistent pass rush to take some of the pressure off.

OL - new season, same old story. Considering we hardly addressed this unit in the offseason it's not a surprise. Good D's are just gonna send the house and Rexy will be running for his life (and fumbling along the way). And I saw no real push for the running game. OL remains a work in progress, continuing the 20-year theme...[/quote]

Wait, we have a new center and two new guards and Trent is only in his second year. How much more could we possibly address the offensive line, for Pete's sake? It's silly.

And if Trent is so horrible, how's Okung working out for Seattle? It seems like people have a hard time giving this team credit when it looks like they're headed in the right direction.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=12thMan;835761]Wait, we have a new center and two new guards and Trent is only in his second year. How much more could we possibly address the offensive line, for Pete's sake? It's silly.[/quote]

We have a new center and 2 new guards? Really? TW, Lichtensteiger, Brown, and Montgomery are all back. Chester is the only new face. Looks pretty similar to 2010 if you ask me.

[quote=12thMan;835761]And if Trent is so horrible, how's Okung working out for Seattle? It seems like people have a hard time giving this team credit when it looks like they're headed in the right direction.[/quote]

Well that's a weak defense: Our 1st round LT and cap leader suck, but wait there's someone out there who's worse!!

And to be clear, I AM giving credit to the team. I loved the draft and most/all of the changes we made. I do think we're headed in the right direction. But it's not a crime to point out the areas we need improvement, especially since this is the Smackdown thread.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

TW needs to improve, no doubt. I think we have to have a little patience though too. He's a 2nd year LT who mostly played RT in college. He's still developing.

Pierre-Paul is no slouch either, he's gonna be good.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;835773]TW needs to improve, no doubt. I think we have to have a little patience though too. He's a 2nd year LT who mostly played RT in college. He's still developing.

Pierre-Paul is no slouch either, he's gonna be good.[/quote]

Agreed. I'm not saying TW is a bust or any crap like that. Actually I hope he can become the best LT in the game one day. But he ain't there yet that's for sure.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;835756]I dont know what yal were looking at, Reed was all over the field Sunday making plays every where, he was a freak, a manchild, he even caught a pass from Rex.[/quote]

Even in his [I]holy[/I] absence....the man-love for Laron remains boundless. :laughing2

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

It is funny how people do not notice or care about the play of an offensive lineman or defensive back until they F- up. For all of the negative plays TW had Sunday, there twice as many or more positive plays that hardly anybody noticed.
He does have room for improvement. So does the rest of our team.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;835773]TW needs to improve, no doubt. I think we have to have a little patience though too. He's a 2nd year LT who mostly played RT in college. He's still developing.

[B]Pierre-Paul is no slouch either, he's gonna be good[/B].[/quote]

Yeah I heard Casserly talking about him and he's very impressed with him. Should be a pro bowler very soon.
Still I agree TW needs to improve. We didn't draft him that high to block the wannabe's.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;835773]TW needs to improve, no doubt. I think we have to have a little patience though too. He's a 2nd year LT who mostly played RT in college. He's still developing.

Pierre-Paul is no slouch either, he's gonna be good.[/quote]And to think I had Pierre-Paul projected as a physical run defender only with limited pass rush skills.

Hard to say what his real upside is, but it certainly seems like I didn't give his skill set enough credit coming out of USF.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

Trent has very quietly become our best run blocker after struggling in that aspect in the beginning of last season. That makes him a very good fit at OT in our system. But if we ever want him to be more than a system player -- and the 4th overall pick should never be a system guy -- he has to improve in pass protection.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;835773]TW needs to improve, no doubt. I think we have to have a little patience though too. He's a 2nd year LT who mostly played RT in college. He's still developing.

Pierre-Paul is no slouch either, he's gonna be good.[/quote]


The sophomore slump.

It has been the bane of many a player.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;835770]We have a new center and 2 new guards? Really? TW, Lichtensteiger, Brown, and Montgomery are all back. Chester is the only new face. Looks pretty similar to 2010 if you ask me.



Well that's a weak defense: Our 1st round LT and cap leader suck, but wait there's someone out there who's worse!!

And to be clear, I AM giving credit to the team. I loved the draft and most/all of the changes we made. I do think we're headed in the right direction. But it's not a crime to point out the areas we need improvement, especially since this is the Smackdown thread.[/quote]

True, this is the Smackdown thread but I'm the anti-Smackdown. My defense is of the other available top OL in Trent's class, the Skins were either going with Trent or Okung. And given Okung's ankle problems, I think the Skins got it right and we should be a little more patient.

To clarify, the interior three didn't begin the 2010 season as starters at their respective positions, so while they are not new Redskins, they are starting the season as a unit for the first time.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

My opinion of Trent is that he [I]will be[/I] great....he ain't there yet, though.

Trent was a little too raw. Look at the video below and notice the inconsistent play.....

[YT]-icEPTOeKhk[/YT]

This was his last year at Oklahoma.....notice the QB getting killed by Trent - not exactly a good way to finish your collegiate career.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

There's been a lot of talk about poor offensive line play. But if that's really the case, then alot of credit must be given to Grossman for being able to overcome it-- to be able to throw for over 300 yards and 2 tds.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=warriorzpath;836067]There's been a lot of talk about poor offensive line play. But if that's really the case, then alot of credit must be given to Grossman for being able to overcome it-- to be able to throw for over 300 yards and 2 tds.[/quote]

I think this is the reason why I think Rex is going to be a different QB. Last year's Rex or 2006 Rex would have thrown three picks and coughed up the ball twice with that type of pressure. Now, for the sake of his health, I think that the o-line needs to get better, otherwise Rex is going to get killed out there if he keeps on taking hits like that.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/09/15/11/Redskins-Notes-Trent-pretty-good-last-we/landing_redskins_loud3r.html?blockID=564027&feedID=272]Redskins Notes: Trent 'pretty good' last week[/url]

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=12thMan;835792]True, this is the Smackdown thread but I'm the anti-Smackdown. My defense is of the other available top OL in Trent's class, the Skins were either going with Trent or Okung. And given Okung's ankle problems, I think the Skins got it right and we should be a little more patient.

To clarify, [I][B][U]the interior three didn't begin the 2010 season as starters at their respective positions, so while they are not new Redskins, they are starting the season as a unit for the first time.[/quote]
[/U][/B][/I]

This doesnt mean jack shit when it comes to getting completely blown the **** up by essentially a rookie pass rusher (Albeit a physical freak ). Sorry, but for the 4th pick in an NFL draft, you better step your game up, and fast. None of this waiting around, give him time, patience sh!t. We have done that enough with previous picks, and they have never worked out. I think he can be a solid piece for years to come, but I would like to see a better showing from him. He isnt a rook anymore. Get it together Trent. You can be great.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

After watching the game again last night, which is the first time ever going back to re-watch a game because I just recently upgraded to DVR, I will join the Doughty bashing bandwagon. Holy crap he's the antithesis of an impact player!!! Way too slow and actually not great at reading plays. On at least a few occasions I saw other guys on defense redirect Doughty because he was evidently out of position (before the snap). And obviously he's too slow to recover from being out of position at the beginning of the play. Considering Landry's iffy injury status I'm kinda shocked we haven't signed another SS. Thoughts on this? Is there another SS on the roster anyone is excited about?

Also, Hightower is not our answer at running back. Again he's not an impact player as in there's no explosiveness there and he doesn't break many tackles. I hope the plan is to use him up early in the season while working Helu and maybe Torain in more and more. My guess is the Shanahan's have Hightower in to protect Rex for the time being as Helu doesn't have any experience protecting a QB at this level and my memory is Torain struggled mightily. C'mon Helu...get on it!!!

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=The Goat;836393]After watching the game again last night, which is the first time ever going back to re-watch a game because I just recently upgraded to DVR, I will join the Doughty bashing bandwagon. Holy crap he's the antithesis of an impact player!!! Way too slow and actually not great at reading plays. On at least a few occasions I saw other guys on defense redirect Doughty because he was evidently out of position (before the snap). And obviously he's too slow to recover from being out of position at the beginning of the play. Considering Landry's iffy injury status I'm kinda shocked we haven't signed another SS. Thoughts on this? Is there another SS on the roster anyone is excited about?

Also, Hightower is not our answer at running back. Again he's not an impact player as in there's no explosiveness there and he doesn't break many tackles. I hope the plan is to use him up early in the season while working Helu and maybe Torain in more and more. My guess is the Shanahan's have Hightower in to protect Rex for the time being as Helu doesn't have any experience protecting a QB at this level and my memory is Torain struggled mightily. C'mon Helu...get on it!!![/quote]

Huh? Hightower has looked great so far this year. Yeah his performance against the Giants wasn't strong, but the Giants never give up A LOT of 100 yard performances against them. Hightower actually started to get less yards per carry in the 2nd half after the Giants made adjustments.

In the NFL now there is no ANSWER at RB. To have 2-3 great running backs on your roster is a blessing, and I believe we have 3 guys who will be great.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

1 game and the verdict is in on Tim, cool...

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=GreekSkin;836400]1 game and the verdict is in on Tim, cool...[/quote]

He doesn't run for 100 yards every game.

He's not the answer.. DUH! :doh:

Yeah, being able to catch one handed passes over the middle, and pick up linebackers to protect the QB doesn't matter.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

Yea I find that to be a foolish assessment as usual

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

If anything there should have been more RB rotation. The running game suffered in the 2nd half thats on the coaching IMO, not Hightower....

Hightower was flat in the 2nd half but showed he can be dangerously effective if used properly.

This week I fully expect to see Hightower the featured RB but I would not be surprised to see Torain and or Helu both in the mix and I believe any of them can have a breakout game.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

I just read all 150 posts...and most has obviously been covered....

I have 2 points not mentioned:

1. Hightower was likely in all game due to his pass blocking skills, Helu is a rookie and Torain has a hand injury and the oline was struggling.

2. Our new wonderful Center has major issues snapping the ball in shotgun formation...they are either slow rainbows or too high...if that doesn't get resolved in a couple weeks we will see sacks and fumbles. Rex did a great job handling the crazy snaps. A less experienced QB would have fumbled them, or rushed a pass for a pick or something.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

There were a handful of plays where Hightower had the opportunity to break out for long yardage i.e. these would have been TDs for a handful of RBs in the league.

If you watch/rewatch the game it's also easy to see why Tim had fumble issues in the past...he still carries the pigskin like a loaf of bread. As the Zen master says...we'll see. But I doubt he's getting the majority of carries by the 2nd half of the season i.e. hopefully the o-line gels and pass protect better and Helu comes in for some huge games.