Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Is this really a penalty or is it cap space we wouldn't have had if we did not restructure or dump these contracts.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=los panda;896295]right, not great. just good[/quote]


A few restructures here and there, and we're probably right back in the ballpark of where we were.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;896290]IMHO, this is simply wrong and probably a violation of the labor laws governing collective bargining.[/quote]

Glad a lawyer (you are a lawyer right?) agreed on this. It HAS to be collusion. It is almost textbook from my half-assed understanding of it.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896300]A few restructures here and there, and we're probably right back in the ballpark of where we were.[/quote]cooley better take one for the team

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896300]A few restructures here and there, and we're probably right back in the ballpark of where we were.[/quote]

id prefer not to restructure and just take our lumps now. restructuring to get under the cap is what got us into perpetual cap hell before.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

where's randy thomas when you need him?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Ruhskins;896294]F'ing owners...

Rich Campbell ‏ @Rich_Campbell
It sounds to me like the owners strong-armed the union into agreeing to the penalties against WAS/DAL. Wild stuff.[/quote]

what!! that is ****ing collusion!! then that is mos def not right

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

The penalty seems wildly excessive given that:

1) there were no well-defined rules or specified penalties, just a vague "agreement"

and

2) Hall and AH might have gotten some bonus money, anyway.

The NFL should at least reduce the penalty.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;896297]as ashamed as i am, i actually sent florio and e-mail and raised this issue. no one else in the media seems to be raising it yet, and id love to have it addressed. without a CBA in place, the teams had not right to collude in this manner.[/quote]

Haha, dont be ashamed, ive emailed Floria before too...... no response.

I bet he will chime in on this though with his background. I can see one of his thorough and over analytical legal opinions on this.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I'd still lawyer up for reduced penalties. the haynesworth dump was flagrant, i don't remember the hall bonus...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

And what's weird is that several teams are reported to have done this, but only Dallas and Redskins are getting punished.

Ah well...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;896310]The penalty seems wildly excessive given that:

1) there were no well-defined rules or specified penalties, just a vague "agreement"

and

2) Hall and AH might have gotten some bonus money, anyway.

[B]The NFL should at least reduce the penalty[/B].[/quote]

i agree, but i would find it highly unlikely. looks like the league and union agreed to the numbers over the weekend, so i would imagine its a done deal.

at what point do we have to decide what penalty we want in 2012?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mlmpetert;896311]Haha, dont be ashamed, ive emailed Floria before too...... no response.

I bet he will chime in on this though with his background. I can see one of his thorough and over analytical legal opinions on this.[/quote]

he's always replied to me, but its been a couple years. i imagine he's got cultbrennan syndrome and thinks hes too important now.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36904/qa-on-the-cowboys-redskins-cap-mess]Q&A on the Cowboys-Redskins cap mess - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

With cuts and restructures still left to come, it isn't the end of the world. The skins are still going to pick up a few quality signings and a stud WR.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SmootSmack;896313][B]And what's weird is that several teams are reported to have done this, but only Dallas and Redskins are getting punished.[/B]

Ah well...[/quote]

Well, at least it is fair and not arbitrary. :(

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SmootSmack;896316][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36904/qa-on-the-cowboys-redskins-cap-mess]Q&A on the Cowboys-Redskins cap mess - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url][/quote]

This smells like the Chris Paul trade veto all over again. A few cry-baby owners screwing things up. Ugh.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SmootSmack;896316][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36904/qa-on-the-cowboys-redskins-cap-mess]Q&A on the Cowboys-Redskins cap mess - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url][/quote]

[quote]Q: Why isn't the union challenging this?

A: While this behavior seems to fit the very dictionary definition of collusion, as multiple teams were engaged in discussions to limit the earning potential of their employees and prospective employees, do not expect it to be challenged in court. The decision today, in which the Redskins were docked $36 million in cap space and the Cowboys $10 million, is the result of a settlement between the NFL and the NFLPA. One reason the union has no problem with it is that the money lost to the Cowboys and Redskins is not taken out of the overall 2012 spending pool — each of 28 other teams gets $1.6 million extra in cap room, so there's no net loss league-wide. Another reason the union won't push on it is because they agreed, as part of the settlement of last year's Brady vs. NFL federal lawsuit, to drop all pending legal action against the league. That included their claims that the league engaged in collusion in 2010.

[/quote]

This whole thing disgusts me. Would not surprise me one bit if the most vocal of the teams demanding punishment were teams targeting VJ and wanted to limit the skins as competitors.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SmootSmack;896316][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36904/qa-on-the-cowboys-redskins-cap-mess]Q&A on the Cowboys-Redskins cap mess - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url][/quote]

He said
"The Cowboys and the Redskins, to a greater extent than the league's other 30 teams, ignored these warnings and engaged in such behavior anyway."

Is the NFL kidding?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=FRPLG;896302]Glad a lawyer ([B]you are a lawyer right?[/B]) agreed on this. It HAS to be collusion. It is almost textbook from my half-assed understanding of it.[/quote]

No. I just play one on TV.

Yes. I am lawyer, but labor law is a world unto itself in many ways and not my area of expertise. At the same time, for all the reasons stated in this thread, it seems to me to be a clear violation of the prior CBA and collusion among the owners to avoid the ramifications of their prior agreement.

[I]Further,[/I] has a negative impact on the current players. As someone else already stated, the Skins had money in hand and were ready to spend. I think the current NFLPA should be pretty upset about this as it is harmful to the current UFA's out there.

Not sure what, if any, the legal recourse is for the Skins. Maybe an injunctive action alleging that the NFL is punishing them for not acting illegally.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896271]Rules or not, if the league is telling you to not do something, and you do it anyway, what do you expect?[/quote]

understood, but this song and dance is getting very old very quick

[quote][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/54985/cowboys-redskins-punished-but-why]Cowboys, Redskins punished ... but why? - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN[/url]

And again, while they don't appear to have broken any actual league rule that's on the books, they do appear to have been warned. So, they're being punished. In the NFL's world, you pretty much have to do what the NFL tells you to do.[/quote]

all of these unspoken rules, unclairified rules, bs fines, and crazy suspensions are adding up really fast. i really hope goodell knows what the f he is doing, he is definitely taking the nfl in a new direction. i just hope it's the right way. he really needs to have some clarity with the owners and player on what any and all new rules are. i look at this as the way players are getting fined for "illegal" hits. the nfl gives some vague guidelines and then starts fining some players for certain hits and not fining other players for very similiar hits. there just seems to be entirely too much gray area in the nfl these days.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Some good points on twitter...

Rick Snider ‏ @Snide_Remarks Reply Retweeted Favorite · Open
Essentially, [B]jealous owners ganged up on Redskins[/B]. Violated verbal warnings? Verbal? Means nothing unless written down.
Retweeted by Chris Russell

Rick Snider ‏ @Snide_Remarks Reply Retweeted Favorite · Open
Not sure why NFLPA would go against Redskins and Cowboys. Those two teams spend more money on players than anyone.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Ya this sounds like complete BS to me. $36 friggin mill????

Ok so how much could we have paid AH and Hall in 2010? $15M and $10M? $10M and $5M? $5M and $2M???? What's too much?

We finally start making cap-friendly deals and it costs us $36M.... :frusty:

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;896331]Some good points on twitter...

Rick Snider ‏ @Snide_Remarks Reply Retweeted Favorite · Open
Essentially, [B]jealous owners ganged up on Redskins[/B]. Violated verbal warnings? Verbal? Means nothing unless written down.
Retweeted by Chris Russell

Rick Snider ‏ @Snide_Remarks Reply Retweeted Favorite · Open
Not sure why NFLPA would go against Redskins and Cowboys. Those two teams spend more money on players than anyone.[/QUOTE]

Maybe they'll reverse it

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;896323]This whole thing disgusts me. Would not surprise me one bit if the most vocal of the teams demanding punishment were teams targeting VJ and wanted to limit the skins as competitors.[/quote]


Yeah defintely pretty sick:

[quote][B]Q: Why is this happening now, the day before free agency?

[/B]A: The answer to that lies in the reason it took so long for the league to establish and announce this year's salary cap. The union must sign off on the cap before it is approved, and it obviously took issue initially with the idea of punishing teams for spending money in an uncapped year. But the league was toying with the idea of lowering this year's salary cap, and used this issue as a bargaining chip with the union. Basically, if the union agreed to the punishment for the Redskins and Cowboys, the cap would be $120.6 million, as it is now. But if they refused, the league was prepared to make the cap lower. I don't know by how much, but say for the sake of argument they wanted to drop it to $116 million per team. That'd have been a total of $128 million when spread across 32 teams — a significant loss to the players if they agreed to it.

[/quote]

The FO had to know about this to some extant prior to the trade with St. Louis.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;896334]Maybe they'll reverse it[/quote]

I swear, this is the Chris Paul trade veto all over again!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Luckily, our QBs are not devouring our cap space. :FIREdevil

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

well, when you make $20mill/year you sh#$ no longer stinks, apparently.

the nflpa agreed under threat of a reduced salary cap (potentially 100mill+ less for players this year) and they already agreed not to pursue 2010 collusion per the new cba agreement, so i'd say recourse is almost nil, though potentially they could argue for a reduction i guess.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Hatters gone hat. Plane and simpal.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I see. The owners are just seeing all the poor players on the Redskins suffering from losing and wanted to help them out by forcing them to go to brighter pastures. Such benevolence.

/sarcasm

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

This is definitely f'd up. I'm not so much concerned about how we'll make up the cap space as I am about the fact a bunch of loser-ass crybaby owners ganged up on us and The Rog essentially did their bidding. I'm definitely not an expert on any stretch but I think we can all agree this reeks of collusion, and the league is basically punishing us for not colluding with the rest of the owners. I hope the Redskins file some sort of legal proceedings that would enable us to get the fine lowered or something. It's pretty ridiculous.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

hmm doesnt have to be 18 mil each yr... couldnt they do like 10 mill this yr leaving us with 21mill and the rest next yr?... im sure between now and then they can restructure some players again and such to accomadate that.. am i correct to think in all actuallity they can take 1 mill this yr and 30 next?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;896326]No. I just play one on TV.

Yes. I am lawyer, but labor law is a world unto itself in many ways and not my area of expertise. At the same time, for all the reasons stated in this thread, it seems to me to be a clear violation of the prior CBA and collusion among the owners to avoid the ramifications of their prior agreement.

[I]Further,[/I] has a negative impact on the current players. As someone else already stated, the Skins had money in hand and were ready to spend. [B] I think the current NFLPA should be pretty upset about this as it is harmful to the current UFA's out there.[/B]

Not sure what, if any, the legal recourse is for the Skins. Maybe an injunctive action alleging that the NFL is punishing them for not acting illegally.[/quote]

all other teams aside from the saints, raiders and cowboys will all receive a check from the redskins. thats the reason the nflpa went along with this, the money still gets spent just not by us. so we are giving the giants and the eagles botha bout 1.5 million for them to spend in free agency, you can go ahead and vomit now.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;896334]Maybe they'll reverse it[/quote]

A reverse seems unlikely. But the NFLPA likely would not complain about a lessening of the penalty now that the salary cap has been set.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Aaaaaaaaand here is the answer to my own question:

[URL="https://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt/status/179312809186832386"]Andrew Brandt [/URL]‏ @adbrandt Reply Retweeted Favorite · Open
[B]All NFL contracts are approved by the NFL Management Council. Curious that there is now punishment for these contracts.[/B]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I want blood....or multiple first rounders as compensation. SUE SUE SUE!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

For those of you on Twitter, feel free to Tweet #FireGoodell

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;896304]id prefer not to restructure and just take our lumps now. restructuring to get under the cap is what got us into [B]perpetual cap hell[/B] before.[/quote]

When was that?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;896347]hmm doesnt have to be 18 mil each yr... couldnt they do like 10 mill this yr leaving us with 21mill and the rest next yr?... im sure between now and then they can restructure some players again and such to accomadate that.. am i correct to think in all actuallity they can take 1 mill this yr and 30 next?[/quote] From what I've seen the teams can spread it as they determine over the next two years. Either way this is a kick squarely in the nuts.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mooby;896345]This is definitely f'd up. I'm not so much concerned about how we'll make up the cap space as I am about the fact a bunch of loser-ass crybaby owners ganged up on us and The Rog essentially did their bidding. I'm definitely not an expert on any stretch but I think we can all agree this reeks of collusion, and the league is basically punishing us for not colluding with the rest of the owners. I hope the Redskins file some sort of legal proceedings that would enable us to get the fine lowered or something. It's pretty ridiculous.[/quote]

We've been saving those owners from diaster by taking those overpaid and overrated free agents off the market and this is how the repay us. :laughing-