Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1076428]Not to cross streams but stuff like this always brings me back to George Mcphee's famous quote, "if you knew enough about the game, you'd be in the game."

If that was the case why is it that almost every fan was screaming for RG3 to come out of that Seattle game and many wanted to wait until after the bye to start him up the following season?

Some of this stuff is clear as day and it's infuriating when the people at the reins can't see what is plainly obvious to regular folk.

I'm more pissed about him starting the year last season, because there is no understandable "heat of the moment" excuse. Allen is throwing himself under the bus for admitting this based in his public comments. It's a troubling sign for the franchise, and all I'll say is pull your head out of your ass and do what's best for the organization next time.[/quote]

Allen reported to Mike Shanahan at the time. He didn't have the authority to overrule Mike's decision to start RGIII in Game 1 last season.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

^ And he would likely not have wanted to say anything contrary to Shanny to the media either.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1076434]Allen reported to Mike Shanahan at the time. He didn't have the authority to overrule Mike's decision to start RGIII in Game 1 last season.[/quote]

Are you saying that Allen made logical, measured arguments to not start the season with RG3 and failed? Seems like he was ineffectual at best, at worst he played along and didn't say a peep against his better judgement. Either way it doesn't make Allen look too good imo and no one, not RG3, not Shanny, not Allen, not Snyder should get off the hook for letting it happen. It's exhibit A of a failed season and the 3-13 record are exhibits B-Z.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

Watching the offensive line and linebackers this preseason.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[QUOTE=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1076446]Are you saying that Allen made logical, measured arguments to not start the season with RG3 and failed? Seems like he was ineffectual at best, at worst he played along and didn't say a peep against his better judgement. Either way it doesn't make Allen look too good imo and no one, not RG3, not Shanny, not Allen, not Snyder should get off the hook for letting it happen. It's exhibit A of a failed season and the 3-13 record are exhibits B-Z.[/QUOTE]
I tend to agree with your premise. At the same time, the coach is the coach and we don't want an owner or GM overriding the coach on game day right?

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

Keenan Robinson, Phillip Thomas, Chris Thompson, Chris Baker, and Robert Thomas are a few of the guys I am looking at.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1076448]I tend to agree with your premise. At the same time, the coach is the coach and we don't want an owner or GM overriding the coach on game day right?[/quote]

This wasn't a "game day" decision. It's a drawn out process that should have been evaluated as time went by and the season approached. Based on similar injuries a week 1 return to the field should have always been considered a stretch. The fact that Robert was definitely not practiced enough or healthy enough to play safely and at a high level should have led the organization, acting in it's own best interest, to override Robert's expressed, and publicized wish to be "all in for week 1". The org should have immediately pumped the breaks on the idea that Robert would press for an ahead of schedule week 1 return and unequivocally stated that Robert's regular season would begin when the organization was fully satisfied that it was the right time to do it. Instead they bent themselves, again, to Robert's burning desire to be on the field.

Yes the doctors said he was safe to play, yes he got some practices in, but no he shouldn't have passed the eye test from the people in charge, and no they shouldn't have expected a second year player to excel at the quarterback position with no preseason games, no offseason, no training camp, and a limited number of practices. There should have been enough combined aptitude and wherewithal from management and ownership to push back Robert's season especially when the schedule makers gave is the gift of a soft opening schedule and a week 5 bye.

It's was a glaring failure, Allen was intimately involved, and the results speak for themselves.

In the end it's all water under the bridge, but Allen is the last person who should be pointing out what a travesty it was, especially at this juncture.

In lighter news I'm starting to warm up to our chances this year...

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1076453]This wasn't a "game day" decision. It's a drawn out process that should have been evaluated as time went by and the season approached. Based on similar injuries a week 1 return to the field should have always been considered a stretch. The fact that Robert was definitely not practiced enough or healthy enough to play safely and at a high level should have led the organization, acting in it's own best interest, to override Robert's expressed, and publicized wish to be "all in for week 1". The org should have immediately pumped the breaks on the idea that Robert would press for an ahead of schedule week 1 return and unequivocally stated that Robert's regular season would begin when the organization was fully satisfied that it was the right time to do it. Instead they bent themselves, again, to Robert's burning desire to be on the field.

Yes the doctors said he was safe to play, yes he got some practices in, but no he shouldn't have passed the eye test from the people in charge, and no they shouldn't have expected a second year player to excel at the quarterback position with no preseason games, no offseason, no training camp, and a limited number of practices. There should have been enough combined aptitude and wherewithal from management and ownership to push back Robert's season especially when the schedule makers gave is the gift of a soft opening schedule and a week 5 bye.

[B]It's was a glaring failure, Allen was intimately involved, and the results speak for themselves. [/B]

In the end it's all water under the bridge, but Allen is the last person who should be pointing out what a travesty it was, especially at this juncture.

In lighter news I'm starting to warm up to our chances this year...[/quote]

It depends on what you mean by "intimately involved." Who plays when was a decision of ShanaDad and ShanaDad alone. Can't knock Bruce for a decision which wasn't his.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=Lotus;1076454]It depends on what you mean by "intimately involved." Who plays when was a decision of ShanaDad and ShanaDad alone. Can't knock Bruce for a decision which wasn't his.[/quote]

If you can't wrap your head around the idea that the GM of the Washington Redskins was intimately involved in the decision I don't know what to tell you...

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

I like the throw Shammy under the bus theme....

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1076449]Keenan Robinson, Phillip Thomas, Chris Thompson, Chris Baker, and Robert Thomas are a few of the guys I am looking at.[/quote]

I'm getting stoked on Murphy, Amerson and Robinson, based solely on reports and interviews, however. If they have good seasons it could go a long way for us.

I'm starting to be convinced that our defense needs to be middle of the pack for us to contend for the division. I think our offense has a chance to be that good...

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1076434]Allen reported to Mike Shanahan at the time. He didn't have the authority to overrule Mike's decision to start RGIII in Game 1 last season.[/quote]

Griffin was cleared by the doctors to play. Allen completely contradicted himself. He should just keep quiet.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1076447]Watching the offensive line and linebackers this preseason.[/quote]

Really looking forward to seeing Robinson get in there. I think he's going to give the defense a much needed upgrade over Fletcher.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1076455]If you can't wrap your head around the idea that the GM of the Washington Redskins was intimately involved in the decision I don't know what to tell you...[/quote]

You could tell the truth and admit that you don't know whether or not Allen was involved in the decision to start RGIII.

Even if Allen was involved, nobody was going to tell Shanny how to run the team. Contractually, he had full authority over football operations. Dan Snyder was the only person who had the authority to stop Shanny but the only way Snyder could have stopped him under the terms of Shanny's contract was to fire him.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1076475]Griffin was cleared by the doctors to play. Allen completely contradicted himself. He should just keep quiet.[/quote]

I agree with you that Allen should just let it go.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

I must have missed it, but where did Allen say "I told everyone not to play Robert, but they wouldn't listen to me"

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1076480]I must have missed it, but where did Allen say "I told everyone not to play Robert, but they wouldn't listen to me"[/quote]

LOL !!!! I always thought that the head coach / trainers / team doctor made that call . Can't recall B. Beathard telling coach Gibbs who to sit ?

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1076457]I'm getting stoked on Murphy, Amerson and Robinson, based solely on reports and interviews, however. If they have good seasons it could go a long way for us.

I'm starting to be convinced that our defense needs to be middle of the pack for us to contend for the division. I think our offense has a chance to be that good...[/quote]

I really like Trent Murphy. If the D-line stays healthy, maybe 5-6 sacks?

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=SirLK26;1076483]I really like Trent Murphy. If the D-line [B]stays healthy[/B], maybe 5-6 sacks?[/quote]

Stays healthy? It's more like gets healthy.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1076484]Stays healthy? It's more like gets healthy.[/quote]

It sucks, but that is a good point. Barry is and Hatch will soon, I think, but not so sure about Bowen. A few days ago, he said he was confident he would be cleared to practice in the next two weeks, but who knows.

If they're healthy, though, along with Rak and Kerrigan, Murphy will have some chances to get some sacks. I don't think 6 is an unreasonable goal.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

From a big picture prespective, wheither or not RG3 should have started in Week 1 of last year or not doesn't really matter to me because the Eagles were going to kick their butts regardless of who started. Was RG3 ready for Week 1? Probably not, but the better question should have been was Haz and his Defense ready for the Eagles offense and the clear answer to that question was NO WAY IN HELL. Even if Cousins had started, they would have lost. The skins defense couldn't handle "the fast break offense" the Eagles employed.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

Anyone have a mini heart attack when they read titles with Griffin's Back Injury this morning on SI.com and ESPN? Only to find out they meant Blake. PHEW!

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=scowan;1076486]From a big picture prespective, wheither or not RG3 should have started in Week 1 of last year or not doesn't really matter to me because the Eagles were going to kick their butts regardless of who started. Was RG3 ready for Week 1? Probably not, but the better question should have been was Haz and his Defense ready for the Eagles offense and the clear answer to that question was NO WAY IN HELL. Even if Cousins had started, they would have lost. The skins defense couldn't handle "the fast break offense" the Eagles employed.[/quote]

They haven't been able to handle any respectable offense for the past two years.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins]Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

[quote]G Josh LeRibeus: One teammate said that LeRibeus has been much better, that because he stayed all year in Ashburn he was able to get in the sort of shape necessary. LeRibeus has looked solid in camp. You don’t see the brain cramps that he’d have as a rookie. And you certainly don’t see the extra weight from last season. [B]Had he played like this last summer, he’d be starting right now at one of the guard spots.[/B] LeRibeus has worked at both left and right guard with the No. 2 offense.
[/quote]

Maybe LeRibeus takes over RG? Long probably won't be ready and the guy we had last year sucks, although from what I've heard it sounds like he's having a solid camp. Still, it'd be huge to have LeRibeus in the starting lineup over that guy we had last year.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1076477]You could tell the truth and admit that you don't know whether or not Allen was involved in the decision to start RGIII.

Even if Allen was involved, nobody was going to tell Shanny how to run the team. Contractually, he had full authority over football operations. Dan Snyder was the only person who had the authority to stop Shanny but the only way Snyder could have stopped him under the terms of Shanny's contract was to fire him.[/quote]

As I wrote earlier, it doesn't matter either way because if he did try he didn't do a effective job of convincing Dan and Mike. If he didn't it is a classic example of being a lackey/yes man. Neither are admirable traits in a football boss imo. If it's a third scenario, and he was offering an organizational mea culpa, saying they disrespected the football gods by doing it, he should have had a tone of accountability and said it was a mistake that we hope to learn from. In any of these cases his remarks on the subject leave a lot to be desired as does the timing.

I'm ready to move on from this topic and go back to talking training camp, but it goes without saying that Allen wasn't an innocent bystander in the handling of the Griffin post injury situation.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=mredskins;1076487]Anyone have a mini heart attack when they read titles with Griffin's Back Injury this morning on SI.com and ESPN? Only to find out they meant Blake. PHEW![/quote]

This is why you bookmark the league pages, NOT THE HOME PAGES! Pffft such a rookie mistake.

Yes:
[url=http://www.si.com/nfl]NFL news, scores, stats, fantasy - Pro Football - SI.com[/url]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
[url=http://www.si.com/]Breaking news, real-time scores and daily analysis from Sports Illustrated - SI.com[/url]

....wait on the SI main page theres Chelsie Aryn.....lets take a brief recess.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=scowan;1076486]From a big picture prespective, wheither or not RG3 should have started in Week 1 of last year or not doesn't really matter to me because the Eagles were going to kick their butts regardless of who started. Was RG3 ready for Week 1? Probably not, but the better question should have been was Haz and his Defense ready for the Eagles offense and the clear answer to that question was NO WAY IN HELL. Even if Cousins had started, they would have lost. The skins defense couldn't handle "the fast break offense" the Eagles employed.[/quote]

Remember we gave them the ball 3 times quickly in our zone (or something like that). And held them pretty well in the second half. That said, I named the thread "Set it all aside" because it's a new season, time to look forward and see if this team can get it rolling early and often!

HTTR!!!

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

As far as Rambo goes, I keep seeing him listed as FS but he looks more like a SS to me. He seems like a physical guy that would play better down hill than as a centerfield type player. Am I wrong in that assessment? He seems to have to the tools to be a good player, but not the fundamentals. I would hope that could be taught but then again, he shouldn't have to be taught things like that in the NFL.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=Terpfan76;1076507]As far as Rambo goes, I keep seeing him listed as FS but he looks more like a SS to me. He seems like a physical guy that would play better down hill than as a centerfield type player. Am I wrong in that assessment? He seems to have to the tools to be a good player, but not the fundamentals. I would hope that could be taught but then again, he shouldn't have to be taught things like that in the NFL.[/quote]

I don't think he has shown that he can tackle on this NFL to be considered a SS. From what I was told he was more known for being a deep safety than anything else.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=donofriose;1076508]I don't think he has shown that he can tackle on this NFL to be considered a SS. From what I was told he was more known for being a deep safety than anything else.[/quote]

Fair enough. Perhaps avoiding attempting highlight reel hits would benefit him too.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;1076503]This is why you bookmark the league pages, NOT THE HOME PAGES! Pffft such a rookie mistake.[/quote]

Bingo.

[quote=Dirtbag59;1076503]....wait on the SI main page theres Chelsie Aryn.....lets take a brief recess.[/quote]

Bingo again! :D

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

It appears the key people in the organization didn't read the forum rules about putting it behind.

This is embarrassing to me as a fan. :(

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11290988/washington-redskins-rookie-kicker-zach-hocker-head-shaved]Washington Redskins rookie kicker Zach Hocker has head shaved - ESPN[/url]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bt1TxvFCQAAat7E.jpg[/IMG]

i personally prefer the cut tebow got but this one is pretty good to. nice to see the dolphins fiasco hasnt killed rookie hazing totally.

[IMG]http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Tim.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

Wonder if Hocker makes the team. Would be insult to injury to get that haircut and then get really cut.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

Pretty good article on Clark and Moss:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-ryan-clark-and-santana-moss-go-extra-mile-to-survive-in-nfl-in-their-mid-30s/2014/07/31/51a5bea2-182c-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html]Redskins Ryan Clark and Santana Moss go extra mile to survive in NFL in their mid-30s - The Washington Post[/url]

I have to admit, I am hoping that Ryan Clark's leadership adds a dimension to our safety play that has been lacking for a Loooooong time.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1076615]Pretty good article on Clark and Moss:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-ryan-clark-and-santana-moss-go-extra-mile-to-survive-in-nfl-in-their-mid-30s/2014/07/31/51a5bea2-182c-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html]Redskins Ryan Clark and Santana Moss go extra mile to survive in NFL in their mid-30s - The Washington Post[/url]

I have to admit, I am hoping that Ryan Clark's leadership adds a dimension to our safety play that has been lacking for a Loooooong time.[/quote]

Ryan Clark was a great, albeit temporary, addition to the defense. I think it was Hall who mentioned a few days ago how much a leader like Clark was already helping the young guys at safety. He(if it was in fact Hall) mentioned how they hadn't had a leader like Clark to learn from last year.


I found this quote from your link extremely interesting:

[quote]The Redskins’ front office has also gotten serious about players’ nutrition. In the early years of Daniel Snyder’s ownership, players were fed fast-food and boxed lunches provided by Bojangles’ and Chicken Out.

Under Allen, the team has hired a registered dietician and chef and built an elaborate kitchen and dining hall at Redskins Park that prepares three meals daily for players and coaches.[/quote]

Wow, really? Fast food? :doh: No wonder we've sucked so long.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

Leadership is nice but whether Clark can still play at a high level is what really matters.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

Sounds like Jarvis Jenkins has had a great camp so far. If Hatcher and Bowen get healthy, I think we could have a nasty D-line.

Also, one of our insiders(likely Tandler or Keim) mentioned a few days ago how much better Orakpo and Kerrigan have looked in one-on-one match-ups this year as opposed to previous years. The Coach Baker influence was cited as the reason. I think his individual coaching is really helping, and having our OLBs rush more for pressure instead of contain should help a lot as well. All in all, starting to get excited about our pass rush.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

Baker was beasting during drills today and some of the rookies looked solid like Grant and Hoffman. Moss also made a couple nice grabs and it was good seeing Garçon running at full speed. DJax didn't play, not sure why, but he was playing up to the crowd a couple times. Overall with the lottery it was a lot less chaotic today and with the overcast weather it stayed nice and cool all day for a perfect day of training camp.

Re: Set it all aside -- Training Camp Begins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1076626]Leadership is nice but whether Clark can still play at a high level is what really matters.[/quote]

Not meaning to sound like Jeff George but this whole "leadership" thing is getting so tiresome. We need guys like Thomas and Robinson, 2nd and 3rd year guys need to be playing. They don't need guys in their mid 30's telling how to go to the bathroom. These are grown ass men. It's nice to have some old guys around that contribute but we're not winning with Moss and Clark. Or another year from Fletcher. It's the young guys like Amerson, Robinson, Thomas and so on that need to take that next step. Are their any old guys in Seattle's secondary? Clark was on the street for a reason and I didn't see a lot of teams fighting for his services.