Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1101331]This is his final year. The contract doesn't run into 2015.[/quote]

You're right! I read an older article.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1101330]Hazmat, Foerster, Kowitka and maybe Morris need to go. Especially the 1st 3 mentioned.[/quote]

Why Kotwica? I don't have any numbers right now to back this up, but the special teams were much better this year IMO, even with all the injuries.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=SirLK26;1101341]Why Kotwica? I don't have any numbers right now to back this up, but the special teams were much better this year IMO, even with all the injuries.[/quote]

Undisciplined play all year, penalties on returns constantly. It has been better the last 2 weeks.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1101342]Undisciplined play all year, penalties on returns constantly. It has been better the last 2 weeks.[/quote]

Every team has St penalties. I'm not sure we have more than others or if we are just aware of every one that we get.

I'd keep Kotwica for now.

Good ST play comes as a result of the athletes that you involve and prioritizing them through practice.

We all know that we will see significant roster turn over before next year's team rolls out.
I'm thinking 15, 20, maybe even more new faces next year.

With that, I expect we'll get faster and younger, but maybe also a little hungrier.

Kotwica has demonstrated success before coming here and I think Kai & Tress are an awesome kicking game. Throw in a true returner & add a little speed and I think we'll be pleasantly surprised.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

All I know the ST have been horrendous the last 2 years and the penalties have cost valuable field position. I'd say ST's were responsible for 2 to 3 loses this year.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

The ST unit has looked below average since Danny Smith and Lorenzo Alexander left..... plus we need our young guys like Akeem Davis to step up..

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

The special teams was an improvement from last year. The free agents that where selected to help on special teams got hurt. They need a change on defense, whether Haslett is at fault or not. He needs to go. Snyder has held onto people he like too long and I hope that he doesn't make that mistake again. I wonder if Kirk Olivadotti could be a defensive coordinator? He has worked with some of the best defensive minds in the NFL, including Ray Rhodes, Marvin Lewis, Gregg Williams, and Greg Blache. Also Jim for what that is worth. Has a pedigree and is a Redskins product.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

I can remember when a lot of fans wanted to run Danny Smith out of town..the truth is simple..The skins will start winning again WHEN AND ONLY IF ALL 53 PLAYERS PUT FORTH THE EFFORT THAT TRENT WILLIAMS HAS DONE!!. we can bring in new coach..new whatever..What the redskins need is dedicated players..aint it funny when there back is up against the wall they respond and play good! this team easily could have won 8 games this year.. RGIII has played better since GRUDEN benched him and did not go along with his antics! I say give Gruden another off season ..a good draft and a hungry attitude could turn this thing around in a hurry!

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1101438]The special teams was an improvement from last year. The free agents that where selected to help on special teams got hurt. They need a change on defense, whether Haslett is at fault or not. He needs to go. Snyder has held onto people he like too long and I hope that he doesn't make that mistake again. I wonder if Kirk Olivadotti could be a defensive coordinator? He has worked with some of the best defensive minds in the NFL, including Ray Rhodes, Marvin Lewis, Gregg Williams, and Greg Blache. Also Jim for what that is worth. Has a pedigree and is a Redskins product.[/quote]

They need to scrap the 3-4 defense....outside of Chris Neild who played NT at West Virginia the Redskins never had the correct personnel for it. Kerrigan and Orakpo are natural DEs. Barry Cofield played NT at Northwestern but has spent most of his career playing DT......Jarvis Jenkins is also a natural DT. Jackson Jeffcoat like Orakpo, played DE at Texas.....they need to return to the 4-3 since they have the right personnel for it......and keep Haslett and let him coordinate with this particular personnel in the 4-3.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1101420]The ST unit has looked below average since Danny Smith and Lorenzo Alexander left..... plus we need our young guys like Akeem Davis to step up..[/quote]

And I recall people saying losing Alexander was no big deal. How did that turn out? Paul and Alexander had some good chemistry on ST and would nail returners.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1101508]And I recall people saying losing Alexander was no big deal. How did that turn out? Paul and Alexander had some good chemistry on ST and would nail returners.[/quote]

That cap hit that we took in 2013 really hurt us....if not for that Lorenzo Alexander is still in a Redskin uniform....our special teams suffered....Niles Paul hasn't done jack since Danny Smith and Lorenzo Alexander left......Akeem Davis made a few jarring hits on ST in preseason......Davis has the potential to be the next big thing on special teams.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1101506]They need to scrap the 3-4 defense....outside of Chris Neild who played NT at West Virginia the Redskins never had the correct personnel for it. Kerrigan and Orakpo are natural DEs. Barry Cofield played NT at Northwestern but has spent most of his career playing DT......Jarvis Jenkins is also a natural DT. Jackson Jeffcoat like Orakpo, played DE at Texas.....they need to return to the 4-3 since they have the right personnel for it......and keep Haslett and let him coordinate with this particular personnel in the 4-3.[/quote]

[IMG]http://nerdrating.com/files/2014/01/43689-Christian-Bale-dafuq-wtf-gif-4Vsk.gif[/IMG]

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=Mattyk;1101510][IMG]http://nerdrating.com/files/2014/01/43689-Christian-Bale-dafuq-wtf-gif-4Vsk.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Lmao. That is the best .gif to describe a response to that post ever.

Definitely a head scratcher.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=rocnrik;1101442]I can remember when a lot of fans wanted to run Danny Smith out of town..the truth is simple..The skins will start winning again WHEN AND ONLY IF ALL 53 PLAYERS PUT FORTH THE EFFORT THAT TRENT WILLIAMS HAS DONE!!. we can bring in new coach..new whatever..What the redskins need is dedicated players..aint it funny when there back is up against the wall they respond and play good! this team easily could have won 8 games this year.. RGIII has played better since GRUDEN benched him and did not go along with his antics! I say give Gruden another off season ..a good draft and a hungry attitude could turn this thing around in a hurry![/quote]

I still don't miss Danny Smith. I know he's rolling in Pitty right now, but he downright sucked for us. What's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.


Right now, we have a good punter in Tress Way. A reliable kicker in Forbath. We haven't gotten any kicks or punts blocked this year, I don't believe... I could be wrong.

I feel like coaching isn't so much the issue as personnel. We have DJax, who we don't put back to return kicks (kind of understandable). We have Moss who we don't even use, who could be back there making himself useful (Not at all understandable). Instead we're using slow ass Roberts. That dude ain't gonna outrun anyone, as evident in the Giants game.

I'm not sure if things like that are a ST coach decision or a head coach decision, but shit like that could be better fleshed out.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

Anyone but Raheem Morris.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1101511]Lmao. That is the best .gif to describe a response to that post ever.

Definitely a head scratcher.[/quote]

You or MattyK didn't understand what I was saying....in short Orakpo or Kerrigan can play OLBs in a 3-4, but they are better suited as 4-3 DEs with their hands in the dirt....not just Kerrigan and Orakpo, but most of the Redskins OLBs were DEs in college....Most of their defensive front were defensive tackles playing in a 4-3 originally.....thus since they really have mostly 4-3 personnel they should be running the 4-3.....got it?

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1101525]You or MattyK didn't understand what I was saying....in short Orakpo or Kerrigan can play OLBs in a 3-4, but they are better suited as 4-3 DEs with their hands in the dirt....not just Kerrigan and Orakpo, but most of the Redskins OLBs were DEs in college....Most of their defensive front were defensive tackles playing in a 4-3 originally.....thus since they really have mostly 4-3 personnel they should be running the 4-3.....got it?[/quote]

you know they play a lot of snaps in a 4-3 right? you have watched the games i'd assume...

and kerrigan has 13 sacks and counting now, making him top 5 in the league. so i'm not sure what alternate reality you're getting your facts from, but i'd have to side with matty on this one.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1101512]I still don't miss Danny Smith. I know he's rolling in Pitty right now, but he downright sucked for us. What's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

I feel like coaching isn't so much the issue as personnel. We have DJax, who we don't put back to return kicks (kind of understandable). We have Moss who we don't even use, who could be back there making himself useful (Not at all understandable). Instead we're using slow ass Roberts. That dude ain't gonna outrun anyone, as evident in the Giants game.
[/quote]

our STs here were much better with danny smith than without him. you realize that last year we weren't just the worst ST unit in the league, but the 2nd worst ST unit since they started tracking differentials in 2000 (the worst was the 2002 oakland ST unit).

why they don't use moss is simple, he's not that fast anymore, he doesn't play teams (ie, gunner on coverage) and he's been inactive most of our games. there's no point wasting an active spot on a guy that's not any better than roberts to maybe get 1 more ypr on a grand total of 3 punts in a game. roberts isn't that bad on returns (though he runs E/W too much for sure), though he's definitely not great either.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1101525]You or MattyK didn't understand what I was saying....in short Orakpo or Kerrigan can play OLBs in a 3-4, but they are better suited as 4-3 DEs with their hands in the dirt....not just Kerrigan and Orakpo, but most of the Redskins OLBs were DEs in college....Most of their defensive front were defensive tackles playing in a 4-3 originally.....thus since they really have mostly 4-3 personnel they should be running the 4-3.....got it?[/quote]

You really lost me on keeping Haz.

3-4 or 4-3 really doesn't matter.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=That Guy;1101529]our STs here were much better with danny smith than without him. you realize that last year we weren't just the worst ST unit in the league, but the 2nd worst ST unit since they started tracking differentials in 2000 (the worst was the 2002 oakland ST unit).

why they don't use moss is simple, he's not that fast anymore, he doesn't play teams (ie, gunner on coverage) and he's been inactive most of our games. there's no point wasting an active spot on a guy that's not any better than roberts to maybe get 1 more ypr on a grand total of 3 punts in a game. roberts isn't that bad on returns (though he runs E/W too much for sure), though he's definitely not great either.[/quote]

Last year we were also working with Keith Burns. Who everyone KNEW needed the boot. Last year was inexcusable.

This is Ben Kotwica's first year and like I said we're already doing worlds better in putting, kicking (none of that low chip shot shit) and blocking for both (no kicks or punts blocked). Discipline still needs to be worked on... Still too many penalties and I feel we could use some personnel upgrades.

We are still at the back end of the league in terms of our ST unit, but we aren't making historical records and when you consider how awful the team has been this year overall, and how awful the ST unit was last year, you HAVE to consider that an improvement.


In regards to Danny Smith's ST unit... It wasn't that great either. In 2012 the Skins ranked in the bottom third in both punting, kicking and returns. We were splitting the year with Forbath and Cundiff and if it wasn't for that Forbath pick up, we would have been royally screwed. That was also the year Sav Rocca started getting the weak leg and granted, a good punter is few and far between but we still hung around with him until after the 2013 season.

In 2011, we did great at kick coverage, but didn't have a consistent returner (and we still don't). We also were busy putting the coals to Gano who was busy missing kicks left and right (literally, right? :rofl:)

So without me going back into Redskins lore, what I'm trying to say is. Our special teams has never been what could be considered... Hearty, well-rounded, and consistently good. At some points we've been abysmal and at other points we've been, "Okay". But we've never had a full on, consistent and competent ST unit. The last time I remember us having one was with Lorenzo Alexander but that was because he was practically THE ST unit by himself.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

Smith and Kotwica are both quality coordinators. Problem under Shanny was we really didn't commit much to bringing in those mid to late round picks that can at least giving you something on teams. Losing Alexander was big but he wanted somewhere where he could play LB and Arizona gave him that opportunity.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=That Guy;1101528]you know they play a lot of snaps in a 4-3 right? you have watched the games i'd assume...

and kerrigan has 13 sacks and counting now, making him top 5 in the league. so i'm not sure what alternate reality you're getting your facts from, but i'd have to side with matty on this one.[/quote]

I have watched the games....they might have four down linemen pushing the opposing offensive line at times, but the 4-3 is not their every down alignment like it should be. The Redskins have players that can play in a 3-4 but who are better suited for a 4-3....it doesn't make sense for the coaches to take guys who naturally play one thing, draft them or sign them as FAs and have them do something else....if Kerrigan played DE on every down he would have even more sacks than he does...

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1100133]My wish would be Todd Bowles ( he's going nowhere unless is HC)

My realistic DC if/when he gets fired is Ron Rivera

Alternate DC Ray Horton or Brian Baker[/quote]

I say bring in Ron Rivera and bring back Sexy Rexy :D

[url=http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-070913haugh-column.html]'Midget' remark may loom large - Chicago Tribune[/url]
[quote]The NFL's favorite piñata took another beating off of it after San Diego linebacker Matt Wilhelm told a California newspaper that Chargers linebackers coach Ron Rivera advised his players they could rattle Grossman because he was "a mental midget.
[/quote]

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

Not to much as long as HAZ is is fired

[quote=Mattyk;1101532]You really lost me on keeping Haz.

3-4 or 4-3 really doesn't matter.[/quote]

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

Haslett puts his players out of position with some of his schemes. It reminds me of when G.Williams would line up the safeties 25+ yards deep. Unless it was Sean Taylor, the safeties where often out of position. But his schemes are way worst. Also, his problem is that he refuses to adjust the scheme at half time. The glaring holes in the middle of the field with scheme and consistent lack of effort to cover a TE warrants Haz's termination. Also the coaches have not been able to teach and improve the talent that was drafted.

The scouts and front office are not off the hook either, we could of drafted Chris Borland or signed UDFA Christian Jones. These dudes proved it on the field and we passed on them because of measurables. They focus too much on the good looking stud and not proven football players.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1101597]I have watched the games....they might have four down linemen pushing the opposing offensive line at times, but the 4-3 is not their every down alignment like it should be. The Redskins have players that can play in a 3-4 but who are better suited for a 4-3....it doesn't make sense for the coaches to take guys who naturally play one thing, draft them or sign them as FAs and have them do something else....if Kerrigan played DE on every down he would have even more sacks than he does...[/quote]

quick things:

assuming kerrigan would be better as a DE is just that, an assumption, based solely on your opinion. I'd just say that if you end a season with 13+ sacks, you've done something right, and that kerrigan has proved he's playing where he should. I think orakpo would fare better as a 4-3 DE, but not kerrigan, who (unlike orakpo), was drafted specifically to play OLB in a 3-4.

Grilliams used a LOT of 3-4 in his 4-3, and it seemed to work out fine.

I think there's a problem with the players (and injuries) and also possibly the DC (he's never had a great defense here, and only 1-2 decent years in a very long career).

injuries:
hatcher (DE)
cofield (DT)
carriker (DE)
neild (DT)
orakpo (LB)
murphy (LB)
Hall (CB)
porter (CB)
merriweather (S)
Ihenacho (S)

and that's just people that were supposed to be top 3 at there position. so believe it or not, we would have been awful in a 4-3 too. if it really were that simple, don't you think a staff of people paid millions per year would at least consider it at some point during the last few years?

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/12083468/rex-ryan-told-friend-expects-fired-new-york-jets]Rex Ryan told friend he expects to be fired by New York Jets - ESPN New York[/url]

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1101597]I have watched the games....they might have four down linemen pushing the opposing offensive line at times, but the 4-3 is not their every down alignment like it should be. The Redskins have players that can play in a 3-4 but who are better suited for a 4-3....it doesn't make sense for the coaches to take guys who naturally play one thing, draft them or sign them as FAs and have them do something else....if Kerrigan played DE on every down he would have even more sacks than he does...[/quote]

There is a really good article about the Cowboys defense switch to a 4-3 which basically quotes Lovie Smith that preaches simplicity.

[url=http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/7/11/5888599/lovie-smith-4-3-defense-dallas-cowboys-tampa-bay-buccaneers]Lovie Smith Explains The Big Advantage Of The 4-3 Defense - Blogging The Boys[/url]

Says it is much simpler to plug guys into the front of the 4-3 with a rush first responsibility because of the limited time with coaches after the cba.

Makes sense to me, but I'm not a football guru.

There seems to be more pressure from our 3rd down nickle sets with 4 rushing down lineman that are not playing gap first. More does not equal much. Murphy and Kerrigan next to each were stout on 3rd downs.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

I think Haslett planned to run aspects of the Seattle styled defense with three rush linebacker set, however he didn't know what he was doing, it didn't work.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1101629]There is a really good article about the Cowboys defense switch to a 4-3 which basically quotes Lovie Smith that preaches simplicity.

[url=http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/7/11/5888599/lovie-smith-4-3-defense-dallas-cowboys-tampa-bay-buccaneers]Lovie Smith Explains The Big Advantage Of The 4-3 Defense - Blogging The Boys[/url]

Says it is much simpler to plug guys into the front of the 4-3 with a rush first responsibility because of the limited time with coaches after the cba.

Makes sense to me, but I'm not a football guru.

There seems to be more pressure from our 3rd down nickle sets with 4 rushing down lineman that are not playing gap first. More does not equal much. Murphy and Kerrigan next to each were stout on 3rd downs.[/quote]

[I][B]TL;DR Version - 3-4 Defense cheaper, more players capable of being plugged in, better suited for passing league, just needs new DC.[/B][/I]

I still like the 3-4 better though. For starters from a pure cost perspective its generally cheaper, which is a huge plus with a salary cap.

On top of that I believe its easier to find pass rushers for a couple reasons. For starters your pool of talent ranges from DE's in 4-3 systems to OLB's in 4-3 systems. I also like the idea of 3 big DT's in the middle occupying blockers rather than 2 DT's for edge rushers.

I also feel its easier to find productive 3-4 OLB's then it is 4-3 DE's. If you look at the Top 6 leaders in sacks for 2014 (6 because our own Ryan Kerrigan is tied with Mario Williams at present time) 4 out of 6 are 3-4 OLB's. 5 out of 6 play in a 3-4 ( though in all fairness JJ Watt is kind of a freak regardless so I don't think his production is so much a reflection of the system as much as his once in a generation level talent).

Nose Guard can be kind of tough to fill but it seems much easier than finding a 4-3 DT that can collapse the pocket and get after the passer. Paying guys like Vince Wilfolk who are just space eaters in the middle is on average a hell of a lot cheaper then gap penetrators (cough Haynesworth cough).

In a passing league I have no problem with a 3-4 system that on average provides more flexibility for disguising coverage as well as more athletic guys on the field when using the base package. Mostly lowering the frequency of needing to use 6 in the box 4-2 Nickle Packages. In all honesty I believe the problem is more Haslet then the 3-4 itself.

I've long since admired Rex Ryan as a coach so if we got a chance to put him in his ideal role as a Defensive Coordinator rather than a Head Coach I feel we would see a pretty sizeable improvement over years past. Not to mention he would likely be easy to keep as a Defensive Coordinator since teams will likely be gun shy on making him a HC going forward.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

I don't care what our "base" defense is regarded as, as long as we get players who can play in it, and Haz is gone.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1101336]You're right! I read an older article.[/quote]


Apparently it's YOU that is right. Not sure when they signed him to an extension though.


[B][SIZE="3"]
@JsteelznSkins

Say goodbye to Haz. Gruden won't fire him because of ties of past . Feels it would tough to do but bruce will fire Haz.Had 1 yr left on deal[/SIZE][/B]

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1101951]Apparently it's YOU that is right. Not sure when they signed him to an extension though.


[B][SIZE="3"]
@JsteelznSkins

Say goodbye to Haz. Gruden won't fire him because of ties of past . Feels it would tough to do but bruce will fire Haz.Had 1 yr left on deal[/SIZE][/B][/quote]

If this is true, my wish will be a reality and a good start to the offseason. Now let's get a real DC not a Mickey D's type DC.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

Please throw money at Rex Ryan to be DC.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1101955]Please throw money at Rex Ryan to be DC.[/quote]


Rex isn't going to be a DC. Not here. Not anywhere. He's either taking a HC job or doing TV.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

Also, they should bring in Ari Gold to fire Jim Haslett.


[YT]yInw8LyWTN8[/YT]

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

LOL Chris Wilson just called Haz's defense a "Techmo Bowl" defense on Fox 5.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

I need him fired ASAP.. I wont be able to enjoy my new year until he is gone..

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/26/jay-gruden-absolutely-interested-jim-haslett-retur/?page=1]Jay Gruden 'absolutely' interested in Jim Haslett returning as defensive coordinator - Washington Times[/url]

Washington Redskins coach Jay Gruden said Friday that he would like to have defensive coordinator Jim Haslett return next season despite the team ranking 28th in the league in points allowed with one game remaining.

“I have a lot of respect for what he does as a football coach, so absolutely,” Gruden said in an interview Friday afternoon.

Gruden, in his first season, clarified that he will not be the one deciding whether Haslett returns, but that the choice will be made by owner Dan Snyder and president and general manager Bruce Allen.

“I have, obviously, input and all that stuff, but ultimately, it will come down to, hopefully, a group decision — and one that we can all live with,” Gruden said. “But it will be a Redskins decision, and we’ll move on.”

Haslett’s future with the Redskins has been the subject of frequent speculation, especially as Washington has allowed 26.3 points per game and ranks 14th in yards allowed, including 22nd against the pass. The Redskins snapped a six-game losing streak with a victory over Philadelphia last week, but are 4-11 heading into the season finale Sunday against Dallas.

Re: New Defensive Coordinator 2015
 

[quote=over the mountain;1102106][url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/26/jay-gruden-absolutely-interested-jim-haslett-retur/?page=1]Jay Gruden 'absolutely' interested in Jim Haslett returning as defensive coordinator - Washington Times[/url]

Washington Redskins coach Jay Gruden said Friday that he would like to have defensive coordinator Jim Haslett return next season despite the team ranking 28th in the league in points allowed with one game remaining.

“I have a lot of respect for what he does as a football coach, so absolutely,” Gruden said in an interview Friday afternoon.

Gruden, in his first season, clarified that he will not be the one deciding whether Haslett returns, but that the choice will be made by owner Dan Snyder and president and general manager Bruce Allen.

“I have, obviously, input and all that stuff, but ultimately, it will come down to, hopefully, a group decision — and one that we can all live with,” Gruden said. “But it will be a Redskins decision, and we’ll move on.”

Haslett’s future with the Redskins has been the subject of frequent speculation, especially as Washington has allowed 26.3 points per game and ranks 14th in yards allowed, including 22nd against the pass. The Redskins snapped a six-game losing streak with a victory over Philadelphia last week, but are 4-11 heading into the season finale Sunday against Dallas.[/quote]


Like I won't burn down FedEx Field if that happened