Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=30gut;1114305]Um yeah obviously jumping a prospect up some 60 odd spots because of a run at that position is unwise. Its also something I didn't suggest. So yeah describing an obviously poor decision doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying. Its not quite a strawman but its close.

An example of adjusting a draft board at a position happened with WRs the past 2 seasons. A team might have a say a 2nd round grade on Nelson Agoholor or Kelvin Benjamin but based on how the draft played out if you didn't take them round 1 you weren't getting them.


I don't understand your point here.

The draft is fluid not static.

There are many different scenarios and situations at play that are interrelated and require different means of management. So sure sometimes Bill's idiom of 'better 1 round early then 1 pick' is the right approach for certain situations or like a Russell Wilson and many other Seattle "reaches" or sometimes waiting on a hidden gem that your scouts and coaching staff have identified undervalued is the right play as in a Alfred Morris or a Keenan Robinson.[/quote]

Listening to the Seattle brain trust, they never considered themselves reaching for Wilson. They picked him where they rated him. They just consider themselves better talent evaluators than the rest, which hasnt been proven false as of yet.

The same is very possible for the 2 WRs you listed. You are basing a team reaching on pundits or your own opinion. Can you guarantee that no team had Benjamin or Agohlor as a 1st rounder, even if late in the round? You say that boards were altered the last 2 drafts based on WRs as if it were fact, then go on a story that starts with might. You present it as fact, then tell a story thats based on assumption.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=That Guy;1114307]really, cause i've yet to see you state a name. someone else mentioned grayson, and that's been it.[/quote]If you haven't been following the thread that's your issue. You are telling me to do something I've already done in this thread. Maybe if you asked instead of making, and repeating a false claim I would be more inclined to restate. But obviously by the tone of your post really not interested in a discussion, which is fine too.


[quote]if you're not going to put up, then it's probably time to stop this pointless exercise. [/quote]By all means feel free stop posting if its a poontless exercise, no one is twisting your arm.

[quote]either there's someone that would be better than who we've got or there isn't.[/quote]What you done here is create a false standard for draft picks. Its a fiction. No one 'knows' what will happen with any draft pick. And it kinda makes your stance disingenuous.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=Skinzman;1114308]Listening to the Seattle brain trust, they never considered themselves reaching for Wilson. They picked him where they rated him. They just consider themselves better talent evaluators than the rest, which hasnt been proven false as of yet.[/quote]Your playing semantics here. Of course the team doing the picking doesn't consider their draft selection a reach, that's obvious.
Draft media have often referred to Seattle picks as 'reaches' in the past but the term 'reach' when it comes to the draft is subjective just like the term 'value' its a relative each of the 32 teams.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

I think not drafting Bart Simpson was a mistake.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1114331]I think not drafting Bart Simpson was a mistake.

Sent from my S6 Edge[/quote]

It was an ever greater mistake to miss out on Nelson Muntz
[IMG]https://www.ladbrokes.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Nelson-Muntz-Gif.gif[/IMG]

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

We could have drafted these three guys.
But, nooooooo....

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/bawanaal/stooges18-1.jpg[/img]

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

I'll be glad when preseason starts so we can start hitting Posters from other teams. Where's Sandandcrap Jack??!!!

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=30gut;1114312]If you haven't been following the thread that's your issue. You are telling me to do something I've already done in this thread. Maybe if you asked instead of making, and repeating a false claim I would be more inclined to restate. But obviously by the tone of your post really not interested in a discussion, which is fine too.[/quote]


great, either show me where you cited an actual draft prospect's ame or repeat it, cause i don't see it. telling me to find something that doesn't exist is stupid.

you're obviously not interested in a discussion though, since all you seem to be capable of is deflecting instead of actually trying to move the conversation forward.

[quote=30gut]What you done here is create a false standard for draft picks. Its a fiction. No one 'knows' what will happen with any draft pick.[/quote]

what you've done here is fail to recognize context. you can't predict the future? well, no s$%#. I was asking what prospect you see that has more upside than kirk cousins. cause if they don't project a ceiling or show they're better than him in 2 years, the pick would be a total waste. if they aren't starting here though, they really aren't helping us all that much - hence my position. but i have a feeling you're trying to play with context and semantics here to avoid actually having to back up your claim with any kind of observable statement that could later be proven wrong... yet again.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=That Guy;1114348]...but i have a feeling.[/quote]Sure.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1114333]We could have drafted these three guys.
But, nooooooo....

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/bawanaal/stooges18-1.jpg[/img][/quote]We need those guys to replace the current referees.
[IMG]http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5198/littlepigskins3ex6.png[/IMG]
They couldn't do any worse, than Hochuli, Booger, and the other refs we have now!

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

Are people still discussing this nonsense? Drafting a QB this year would have been foolish when other areas of need were much more pressing. Nobody coming out at the QB position would have been any better than what we currently have at the position. We aren't in a position that our team is loaded where we can waste picks on the next Tom Brady. You want to know why Tom was as good as he was? Because he was drafted to a team that was already solid. We are not.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1114412]Are people still discussing this nonsense? Drafting a QB this year would have been foolish when other areas of need were much more pressing. Nobody coming out at the QB position would have been any better than what we currently have at the position. We aren't in a position that our team is loaded where we can waste picks on the next Tom Brady. You want to know why Tom was as good as he was? Because he was drafted to a team that was already solid. We are not.[/quote]

The 2000 Patriots were 5-11 with a franchise Qb, one win better than the 2014 Redskins. Doesn't seem like they were a real solid team.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1114414]The 2000 Patriots were 5-11 with a franchise Qb, one win better than the 2014 Redskins. Doesn't seem like they were a real solid team.[/quote]

That team was 4 years removed from a Super Bowl and two playoff appearances after that SB loss. They were 9-7 and 8-8 the years prior. That team wasn't bad like that 5-11 record indicates either. Pete Carroll wasn't a good coach at the time to say the least.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

Just gonna address some points that were made in a recent post in the aim of discussion...


-We have other areas of need

Teams always have other areas of at any position both in the short term and the long term. You can make the 'other areas of need' argument for any position. And specifically in our case here its a tough argument to sell that RB or WR or LB is more of need then back-up and developmental QB since we have [I][B][U]no[/U][/B][/I] QBs on signed past this season.



-Nobody coming out would have been better then what we already have

Obviously no one knows what any draft picks will become. Don't see the logic in an argument that assumes you know the outcome one way or another.
Further, its also a strawman because I haven't stated the reason to draft a QB is to compete with the QBs we currently have.



-The current team isn't 'loaded' to warrant drafting a QB

Since when does a team need to be 'loaded' to warrant drafting a developmental or other QB?



-Drafting a development QB is a 'wasted' pick

Should I name the litany of developmental QBs (especially WCO) that weren't 'wasted' picks? And the rate of success for any developmental player after the 3rd round is going to be low regardless of position. So whatever position drafted in rounds 4-7 could be viewed as 'wasted' picks.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

:bdh:

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

Joe....could you issue some sort of Cyber....Restraining order....or Gag..thinger?

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1114436]:bdh:[/quote]

Now if the title was Not drafting a TE a mistake? Then I could roll with that...

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=Hog1;1114437]Joe....could you issue some sort of Cyber....Restraining order....or Gag..thinger?[/quote]

I wish.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

I think it's fine. There's no one who looks like a franchise QB right now but Griffin and Cousins are both solid. Build a team around them and there's potential.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=samsam;1114465]I think it's fine. There's no one who looks like a franchise QB right now but Griffin and Cousins are both solid. Build a team around them and there's potential.[/quote]Welcome to the board!

Just to clarify; I'm not saying passing a QB is big mistake more asking should they have drafted QB?

And for me, as I've said before with the situation now the right process would have been to draft a development QB somewhere in the draft.

I can understand if you dont like the QBs in this draft. But the draft is basically a crap shoot no one knows what will happen with any draft pick. Some hit and some don't. But by not drafting a position you ensure that if they hit they're not gonna be on your team.

I agree that Griff, Kirk or Colt might be solid but isn't it fair to say they also might not? Putting them aside though, even teams that have solid QBs often draft a QB to develop, especially WCOs.

For me I would feel better about the QB situation if we were developing a QB (depth, back-up or even starter) for the future.

Cheers!

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=30gut;1114466]Welcome to the board!

Just to clarify; I'm not saying passing a QB is big mistake more asking should they have drafted QB?

And for me, as I've said before with the situation now the right process would have been to draft a development QB somewhere in the draft.

I can understand if you dont like the QBs in this draft. But the draft is basically a crap shoot no one knows what will happen with any draft pick. Some hit and some don't. But by not drafting a position you ensure that if they hit they're not gonna be on your team.

I agree that Griff, Kirk or Colt might be solid but isn't it fair to say they also might not? Putting them aside though, even teams that have solid QBs often draft a QB to develop, especially WCOs.

For me I would feel better about the QB situation if we were developing a QB (depth, back-up or even starter) for the future.

Cheers![/quote]

Who would you have picked, and which of the players we did pick would you have foregone to make that QB selection?

Without specifics this discussion is a bunch of spit in the wind.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1114473]Who would you have picked, and which of the players we did pick would you have foregone to make that QB selection?

Without specifics this discussion is a bunch of spit in the wind.[/quote]The tone and approach to asking a tangential question is strange to me.

I'm not sure why you think it matters who I would have picked. The FO didn't pick any of the QBs and they had a chance to pick any of them except for Winston and Mariota. But even though I've already addressed [quote=30gut;1113756]....And to be clear we had a chance to draft any QB from Grayson to Trevor Siemain.[/quote]

[quote=30gut;1113772]...Garrett Grayson was considered by many, including Jay's own brother, as a pro-ready plug and play QB in this system. There were positive comments about all of the QBs.[/quote]

[quote=30gut;1113838]....I think that Jay, like his brother Jon, liked Garrett Grayson. And even aside from Grayson may have liked other pro-style/pro-concept familiar QBs available in the draft. At pick 69Grayson was available. BUT they chose to trade down with Seattle which cost them Grayson and Mannion. At the bottom of round 3 they chose Matt Jones at pick 95 by their next selection at 105 it looked like Bryce Petty was gonna fall into their laps but the Jets [I][U]traded up[/U][/I] to get him at pick 103. Round 5 they chose Martel Spaight (who I think is a stud btw, he's one of the guys I wanted in this draft and mentioned in the draft thread) over Brett Hundley.[/quote]...I do like to talk about both football and QBs and I'm bored so...all the QBs have some strengths and weaknesses. On the whole I think the difference between the QBs and prospects as whole is overestimated or overstated. Teams rank the QBs and the actual difference in skillset between the QB1 and an UDFA isn't as large as the difference in draft position and perception its why there are UDFA that make teams over draft picks every year and its why some #1 overall QBs bust out and some UDFA QBs are borderline HOF.

Enough of the preamble. The QBs I liked for Jay are Garrett Grayson, Sean Mannion, Bryce Petty (would have been hella awkward though w/ Griffin lol) UDFAs (or select in the 7th round) Shane Carden and Jamiel Showers

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=30gut;1114474]

Enough of the preamble. The QBs I liked for Jay are Garrett Grayson, Sean Mannion, Bryce Petty (would have been hella awkward though w/ Griffin lol) UDFAs (or select in the 7th round) Shane Carden and Jamiel Showers[/quote]

What you call preamble I call spit in the wind. So here's the key question, bringing it down to practical terms:

Garrett Grayson was taken with the 75th pick. Meaning to get him we could have either:

- Taken him at 38 instead of Preston Smith. Would you have done that?

OR

- Not traded with Seattle and taken Grayson at the top of the 3rd instead. So we would have taken Grayson instead of Matt Jones, Arie Kouandjio, and Kyshoen Jarrett (the players chosen with the picks acquired from Seattle). Would you have done that?

If yes, then you don't agree with McLoughan's decision based on what was available at the time. If not, then you do, and thus passing on Grayson was not a mistake.

This line of thinking can be applied to each of the QBs you mention to determine whether you support McLoughan's moves or not. Please deal in specifics based on what actually happened during the draft and what was available at our picks, otherwise I'm uninterested in listening further.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

To be clear, I have no problem with you suggesting we should have come away with a QB to develop, but it's a worthless, uninteresting, and irrelevant opinion if you can't pinpoint the part of the draft where you would have gone in a different direction to get a QB.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1114478]To be clear, I have no problem with you suggesting we should have come away with a QB to develop, but it's a worthless, uninteresting, and irrelevant opinion if you can't pinpoint the part of the draft where you would have gone in a different direction to get a QB.[/quote]You are assuming your tangential question of what I think or whom I like is the issue.
It's not the issue its actually besides my point.

The issue is whether or not they should have drafted a QB. Not which QBs I like. If it needs to be more binary if the QBs we didnt select become more valuable then the player we did select then it was a mistake. All I'm saying is that in our situation we should have selected a QB. And I would bet that they wanted to select one but were unlucky with how the draft played out.

It's like asking someone to buy you a lottery ticket and they return with no ticket and tell you that you weren't going to win anyway so they didnt get you one and to justify their stance they ask you well what numbers you would have selected?

Now i'm game to talk QBs all day long. And maybe it wasnt clear in my post but the QBs I mentioned in the order I mentioned them would have been my targets.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=30gut;1114481]You are assuming your tangential question of what I think or whom I like is the issue.
It's not the issue its actually besides my point.

The issue is whether or not they should have drafted a QB. Not which QBs I like. If it needs to be more binary if the QBs we didnt select become more valuable then the player we did select then it was a mistake. All I'm saying is that in our situation we should have selected a QB. And I would bet that they wanted to select one but were unlucky with how the draft played out.

It's like asking someone to buy you a lottery ticket and they return with no ticket and tell you that you weren't going to win anyway so they didnt get you one and to justify their stance they ask you well what numbers you would have selected?

Now i'm game to talk QBs all day long. And maybe it wasnt clear in my post but the QBs I mentioned in the order I mentioned them would have been my targets.[/quote]

:sleep:

Peace out.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1114482]:sleep:

Peace out.[/quote]Lol, You respond to a post for someone else and inject yourself into the combo and ask a question. Even though it's something I already addressed I take the time, from my phone no less, to reply.

And this is the response? Cool, I guess. SMH

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

30gut, your entire position is mental masturbation. Talking about taking a QB without grounding yourself in the reality of what was available at the time is tantamount to sitting in a corner playing with yourself. I'm uninterested in participating in such an inane and pointless discussion. Same with just about everyone else on this board.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[IMG]http://karenmoline.com/lurchingintodecrepitude/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/pot-and-kettle.png[/IMG][quote=Schneed10;1114486]30gut, your entire position is mental masturbation. Talking about taking a QB without grounding yourself in the reality of what was available at the time is tantamount to sitting in a corner playing with yourself. I'm uninterested in participating in such an inane and pointless discussion[QUOTE=Schneed10;1113754]...Your question is a good one [IMG]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBftNIb_okYl13pK5VPLD5aquHdiqGX_lfRbpzCDIA-_a6TBYIsA[/IMG]but it's just impossible to answer now. If one of our three current QBs really establishes himself this year (hopefully Griffin), then it won't be a mistake.

If they don't then we could have this discussion, it would only be a mistake if the QBs we passed on in 2015 end up looking good. Like if Petty or Hundley tear it up then yeah we will kick ourselves....[/quote] Same with just about everyone else on this board.[/quote]Did I twisted your arm and force you to make I don't know how many posts is it now?

This is one of many threads that I've started and I try to post when someone responds out of courtesy because that how conversation/discussion works. If you think this topic is whatever then don't post in it. No one is forcing you. Frankly of the threads I've started I didn't expect this one to get the most traffic but guess what? The traffic isn't generated by me, I just respond. Imho the best topic thus far is the one with the least posts.

For the record I have countless times even before you posted stated exactly where the QBs could have been drafted. Here's a newsflash: everyone isn't going to agree. I know there is a lot of groupthink in message boards, but its okay for people to disagree without all the drama.

And oh btw pointing out 'mental masturbation' in an internet sports message board'? Priceless, but at least I realize it.

Cheers all the same.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

I thought this back and forth sounded familiar. Page one of this thread.

Deja vu all over again.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1114496]I thought this back and forth sounded familiar. Page one of this thread.

Deja vu all over again.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. It really has run the same course multiple times

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

we should have drafted a punter :/

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

Yes, not drafting a QB was definitely a mistake but only because it eventually led to the creation of this thread. If Scot M. reads this board, I'm sure he now wishes he had drafted one just so he could escape this endless torture of circular reasoning.

But then, not drafting one may have led to a thread entitled "Drafting a QB a mistake?".

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

This thread is one of those "Rubber Necking" threads. Just like I know I shouldn't slow down to look at the accident in the opposite lane of traffic, I know I should just ignore this thread entirely as it became inane pretty much after page 2.

But yet, here I am like a moth to the flame.

I so hate this thread.

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

The Simpsons, Nazis and pie.

Question 3.

<drop mic>

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

This thread is 10% football discussion, 30% 30gut's mental masturbation, and 60% people making fun of 30gut.

It's entertaining at the very least, but not worthy of "Redskins Discussion for the Knowledgeable Fan".

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1114514]This thread is 10% football discussion.....[/quote]Your posts amuse me. Despite your whining and criticisms its laughable that you aren't bothered in the least by your own hypocrisy for most likely the 2nd highest post count in this thread. Nevermind that you did a 180 on your on statements about the question. And you talk about mental masturbation while actively, vigorously participating.

Cheers

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

This thread is now about posting funny GIFs.

[IMG]http://media.giphy.com/media/9YlhdI9SSP0Qw/giphy.gif[/IMG]

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

[IMG]http://media.giphy.com/media/nXyx1m3mx2PxS/giphy.gif[/IMG]

Re: Not drafting a QB a mistake?
 

This is a real life representation of what this thread comes down to.


[YT]6h_JIA_Sz_Y[/YT]