Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Giantone;1194419][url]https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/redskin[/url][/quote]

Per your cite: "The term originally had a neutral meaning and was used by North American Indians themselves, but it eventually acquired an unfavourable connotation."

If the natives used it to describe themselves, even today it is used by Native Americans as a team mascot, and there has been no poll (that I have seen) showing that a majority of Native Americans consider it a pejorative, then how did it "eventually acquir[e] an unfavorable connotation" except by those not of the group at issue?

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1194425]Per your cite: "The term originally had a neutral meaning and was used by North American Indians themselves, but it eventually acquired an unfavourable connotation."

If the natives used it to describe themselves, even today it is used by Native Americans as a team mascot, and there has been no poll (that I have seen) showing that a majority of Native Americans consider it a pejorative, then how did it "eventually acquir[e] an unfavorable connotation" except by those not of the group at issue?[/quote]

Highly liberal special interest groups looking for ways to make money off of lawsuits.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Giantone;1194419][url]https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/redskin[/url][/quote]

[url]https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/fake-news[/url]

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Think you need to check that definition of fake news, because it doesn't apply to a dictionary definition of a word

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1194425]Per your cite: "The term originally had a neutral meaning and was used by North American Indians themselves, but it eventually acquired an unfavourable connotation."

If the natives used it to describe themselves, even today it is used by Native Americans as a team mascot, and there has been no poll (that I have seen) showing that a majority of Native Americans consider it a pejorative, then how did it "eventually acquir[e] an unfavorable connotation" except by those not of the group at issue?[/quote]

At this point, I am just a bit done with even dealing with it. There are hundreds of acceptable ways to name the team while keeping a native american tradition alive. It's stupid to see certain sports news outlets referring to us as the "Washington Football team", and yes, it's giving in to PC/social crybabies, but it's a team name, not the Washington Monument, or other national memorials.

Just change the name a little, get the land by Oxon Hill farm, build a new stadium and bring home a Superbowl. Is that so hard?

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=MTK;1194429]Think you need to check that definition of fake news, because it doesn't apply to a dictionary definition of a word[/quote]

[url]https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/post-truth[/url]

"relating to circumstances in which people respond more to feelings and beliefs than to facts"

this might work as well.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Can we at least agree on a couple of things?

1) The term is clearly outdated, a new pro sports team today simply wouldn't take on that name.

2) Nothing wrong with having a healthy debate of what's appropriate vs what's not. Words often change meaning over time. To just stick your head in the sand and refuse to believe there's nothing at all offensive about it, is pretty short sighted.

And to those that think its absolutely offensive, why is there not more of an uproar about it from those who's opinions really matter in all this... Native Americans themselves? If 9 out of 10 are ok with it, can't we move on to more important things?

If only there was some middle ground instead of both sides dismissing the other.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote]
[B]Giantone's[/B] [B]Post[/B]
[url]https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/redskin[/url]

(response)
Chico:
[url]https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionari...lish/fake-news[/url]
[/quote]

add this to list

[url]https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/douchebag[/url]

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=MTK;1194433]Can we at least agree on a couple of things?

1) The term is clearly outdated, a new pro sports team today simply wouldn't take on that name.

2) Nothing wrong with having a healthy debate of what's appropriate vs what's not. Words often change meaning over time. To just stick your head in the sand and refuse to believe there's nothing at all offensive about it, is pretty short sighted.

And to those that think its absolutely offensive, why is there not more of an uproar about it from those who's opinions really matter in all this... Native Americans themselves? If 9 out of 10 are ok with it, can't we move on to more important things?

If only there was some middle ground instead of both sides dismissing the other.[/quote]


1) Packers, 49ers, etc. Yes many outdated terms that have now become a strong brand.
2) The word Redskins exclusive refers the football team. When has it meant something else? Are people out in these streets using the term another way?

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Chico23231;1194435]1) Packers, 49ers, etc. Yes many outdated terms that have now become a strong brand.
2) The word Redskins exclusive refers the football team. When has it meant something else? Are people out in these streets using the term another way?[/quote]

whattup my Redskin?

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Meks;1194436]whattup my Redskin?[/quote]

Im sunburnt a lil...and now im offended. :D

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Chico23231;1194435]1) Packers, 49ers, etc. Yes many outdated terms that have now become a strong brand.
2) The word Redskins exclusive refers the football team. When has it meant something else? Are people out in these streets using the term another way?[/quote]

It's only an issue because people today bitch about every little thing..

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1194438]It's only an issue because people today bitch about every little thing..[/quote]

"I think it's a time in our culture where people love to pretend they're offended," Matt Groening

nailed it.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

And every single person is a Slim Shady lurkin', he could be workin' at Burger King spittin' on your onion rings. Or in the parking lot circling, screaming I don't give a fuck with his windows down and his system up.

Because I don't give a fuck about the name issue. So put one of those fingers on each hand up.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

but, who gives a f***

If the Skins became the Warriors, or and went with the Arrow helmet, would it end up affecting you in any way?

Just change it and be done.

It is also true that in this day and age, NO OTHER ethnic group would go for a team named after their skin color, regardless of the origin of the word.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1194441]but, who gives a f***

If the Skins became the Warriors, or and went with the Arrow helmet, would it end up affecting you in any way?

Just change it and be done.

It is also true that in this day and age, NO OTHER ethnic group would go for a team named after their skin color, regardless of the origin of the word.[/quote]

This. Exactly.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Let me take these one at a time...

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1194441]
If the Skins became the Warriors, or and went with the Arrow helmet, would it end up affecting you in any way?[/quote]

I don't care.

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1194441]Just change it and be done.[/quote]

I don't care.

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1194441]It is also true that in this day and age, NO OTHER ethnic group would go for a team named after their skin color, regardless of the origin of the word.[/quote]

I don't care.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

The bottom line is, I like the name, and if I were Dan Snyder my message would be exactly the same. He used the phrase, "We will never change the name. Never. You can use caps."

My message, to anybody who wanted to change it, would be fuck you I don't care.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Schneed10;1194447]The bottom line is, I like the name, and if I were Dan Snyder my message would be exactly the same. He used the phrase, "We will never change the name. Never. You can use caps."

My message, to anybody who wanted to change it, would be fuck you I don't care.[/quote]

but are you going to stop supporting the team if they did change it?

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1194448]but are you going to stop supporting the team if they did change it?[/quote]

This question is the very definition of hypothetical because it's never going to happen. It's not even an interesting debate subject.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1194452]This question is the very definition of hypothetical because it's never going to happen. It's not even an interesting debate subject.[/QUOTE]The question is the ultimate profit loss analysis that snyder would look at before he changes the name. If he believes there is no fan loss by changing the name the chances go up that he will see a bottom line benefit to changing the name.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1194454]The question is the ultimate profit loss analysis that snyder would look at before he changes the name. If he believes there is no fan loss by chamging the name the chances go up that he will see a bottom line benefit to changing the name.[/quote]

they'd sell the remaining crap off to stores or online retailers, who would continue to sell it, because, well, ppl would STILL buy it .... shit they would make current "Warriors" players jerseys as Redskins and call it a throwback .. Mitchell & Ness would have a field day.... and guess what? we'd still buy it.

Dans a smart business man, he'd figure it out. If anything the merchandise revenue as a whole would prolly rise for a few years. Unless the warriors uniforms sucked.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

At this pace, we'll eliminate every reference to Native Americans in our country. Future Americans will only think that whoever they were, they always loved gambling.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1194454]The question is the ultimate profit loss analysis that snyder would look at before he changes the name. If he believes there is no fan loss by changing the name the chances go up that he will see a bottom line benefit to changing the name.[/quote]

If you think he's a straight bottom line guy then you haven't paid attention to the last 15 years. He certainly is interested in the bottom line, no argument there. But he's also interested in control and perception.

When he was vilified in the media he undertook an intentional PR effort to rehab his image.

He cares deeply about how he is perceived. He will not change the name after using the phrase "you can use caps" - he knows he will be perceived as caving.

You oversimplify by distilling it down to a straight cost/benefit conversation. Snyder's ego is paramount in this discussion.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

And just to add one last time, this conversation is a waste of time. He's not going to change the name.

If you're one of the PC ninnies, it's time to grow some nuts and not get offended so easily. And if you're trying to make some academic argument how it won't affect the bottom line, you've already wasted too much time thinking about it.

It's not going to happen. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Just let it go.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Schneed10;1194542]If you think he's a straight bottom line guy then you haven't paid attention to the last 15 years. He certainly is interested in the bottom line, no argument there. But he's also interested in control and perception.

When he was vilified in the media he undertook an intentional PR effort to rehab his image.

He cares deeply about how he is perceived. He will not change the name after using the phrase "you can use caps" - he knows he will be perceived as caving.

You oversimplify by distilling it down to a straight cost/benefit conversation. Snyder's ego is paramount in this discussion.[/quote]

Fair enough.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Why are we still talking about this? The lawsuit has been dismissed. Dan Snyder is not changing the name. I'm sorry, DAN SNYDER IS NOT CHANGING THE NAME. (In all cap) No reason to change the name. Let it go and hail to the Redskins.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Poll results have consistently shown that Native Americans are overwhelmingly supportive or ambivalent to the name. Calls for the team to change its name generally seem to come from liberal white men. I’m a liberal white man myself, but on principle I find it incredibly offensive that a few white men seem to think it’s their role to tell Native Americans what they should and should not find offensive - as if we are the only ones smart enough to understand the term is derogatory and the poor simple minded native Americans need us to explain it to them and come to their defense.

If and when there is evidence that a substantial portion of people of Native American descent find the name offensive, I’ll change my position. It doesn’t even have to be a majority - even 1/3rd would be enough to make me reconsider. Until then, I’m not interested in hearing any more white people criticize the name. They need to find a more useful cause to champion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Agree with BHA. I'm a moderate white man. But as a basic and decent human being, I follow the general rules:

- Women are the ones who tell the world what is offensive to women
- African Americans are the ones who tell the world what is offensive to African Americans
- Jewish people are the ones who tell the world what is offensive to Jewish people
- Native Americans are the ones who tell the world what is offensive to Native Americans
- etc.

I do this in deference to others. You tell me what's OK and what's not, and I'll gladly abide. The fact that 85 - 90% are either OK or like the Redskins name tells me my conscience can rest easy and not to worry about the issue. I couldn't care less what liberal white males have to say about the subject. Their opinions don't matter. Deference to the groups in question is how you appropriately sensitize yourself.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1194562]Agree with BHA. I'm a moderate white man. But as a basic and decent human being, I follow the general rules:

- Women are the ones who tell the world what is offensive to women
- African Americans are the ones who tell the world what is offensive to African Americans
- Jewish people are the ones who tell the world what is offensive to Jewish people
- Native Americans are the ones who tell the world what is offensive to Native Americans
- etc.

I do this in deference to others. You tell me what's OK and what's not, and I'll gladly abide. The fact that 85 - 90% are either OK or like the Redskins name tells me my conscience can rest easy and not to worry about the issue. I couldn't care less what liberal white males have to say about the subject. Their opinions don't matter. Deference to the groups in question is how you appropriately sensitize yourself.[/QUOTE]

Journalist with degrees from Northwestern also tell us what's offensive.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1194565]Journalist with degrees from Northwestern also tell us what's offensive.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]"And Don't You Forget It!"

[emoji16]

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk