Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

Plus, regardless of the actual specifics of the situation I don't see how anyone can even remotely defend the team's handling of the situation. From the outside, which is all we have to go on and all that matters perception-wise, this looks like an utter and complete failure of the team to operate in even something resembling a professional manner. Again

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=mooby;1167978]I'm not gonna sit here and question whether some of these posts are directed at me, if you are gonna call me out just do it.

This is all I am asking: If McC had been drinking on the job for an extended period of time why did they not make a plan and stick with it? Clearly he was a weakness that needed to be addressed, why did they do in the haphazard way of firing him during free agency? It wasn't like they saw him having 1 beer on the job and decided he had to leave immediately. Who was the last GM fired during free agency not named McCloughan? Shit, the Seahawks and 49ers knew he had a drinking problem and they still didn't end up with the mess we have now.[/quote]

You don't see the Machiavellian logic in letting him go at the start of free agency? The drinking wasn't the reason for dismissal, the drinking was the excuse.

At the start of free agency you've got the guy's thinking on free agents and you've got his draft board mostly done. You take that information and you:

a) execute on the free agent plans, knowing that you Bruce Allen could not have come up with a better one on your own, you roll with McCloughan's and take credit for it since he's gone at the time the pen hits the paper on those free agent contracts

b) in parallel, hand your draft board to Jay and Doug Williams and say OK go work off this, and interview the players, and tweak this board based on what you think. Go into the April draft executing a McCloughan draft board with input from Jay and Doug. You, Bruce Allen, get the credit because McCloughan is gone, and you're the one in charge.

c) do all the talking to the media so that all of the screw ups can be blamed on McCloughan, and so that you can take personal credit for all the good stuff.

d) find a new GM to put in place in May, following the draft, and go into the next season with a clean slate.

I don't know what we're arguing about here. McCloughan wasn't fired for drinking, does anybody really think that? Nobody here is arguing that. McCloughan was fired because he wasn't a yes man and Bruce Allen is a Machiavellian dickhead. Drinking was the built in excuse to fire McC for cause whenever they wanted.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=FRPLG;1167987]Plus, regardless of the actual specifics of the situation I don't see how anyone can even remotely defend the team's handling of the situation. From the outside, which is all we have to go on and all that matters perception-wise, this looks like an utter and complete failure of the team to operate in even something resembling a professional manner. Again[/quote]

Who is defending the team?? I feel like we're talking in circles.

Nobody in the last five pages has defended the team. They're indefensible.

I think what you're taking as defending the team is really just several posters who are the types that look forward, not backward. I'm like that myself. Bruce Allen is a piece of shit, but McCloughan is gone, history, spilled milk. I don't cry over it. I'm more interested in what happens next with Cousins, who runs our draft board, and who gets the next GM job.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=SirLK26;1167969]Scot not attending the combine was a mutual decision between he and Bruce. He was effectively done here already...[/quote]

Pretty much, though probably much more Bruce's decision than Scot's.

Not to make light of it, but how much must it suck for Scot to see Bruce drink as much as he does and be able to "handle his alcohol" while Scot has to forever battle demons and perceptions

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1167990]Pretty much, though probably much more Bruce's decision than Scot's.

[B]Not to make light of it, but how much must it suck for Scot to see Bruce drink as much as he does and be able to "handle his alcohol" while Scot has to forever battle demons and perceptions[/B][/quote]


Is there a vice versa of how can Bruce sit there and see a drunk with such an ability to build superbowl contending/winning personnel with 2 different clubs but yet battle his own Front office perceptions(clown show/dumpster fire) built around McNabb/RG3 trades and salary dumps which resulted in crippling penalties (Haynesworth)? That has to suck for Bruce...and Dan (drinking bro)

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1167989]Who is defending the team?? I feel like we're talking in circles.

Nobody in the last five pages has defended the team. They're indefensible.

I think what you're taking as defending the team is really just several posters who are the types that look forward, not backward. I'm like that myself. Bruce Allen is a piece of shit, but McCloughan is gone, history, spilled milk. I don't cry over it. I'm more interested in what happens next with Cousins, who runs our draft board, and who gets the next GM job.[/quote]

I guess I'm sensing more of a tolerance for the situation than I currently have. I've long been a defender of the DS tenure as I have simply refused to believe he was as bad others shrieked about. But I am as close as ever to having to give up. Year after year of losing is one thing. I can take bad luck and unfortunate football decisions. That's part of being a fan. The hope that one day everything will finally fall into place. But year after year of making the same mistakes because one individual is simply unable or unwilling to develop as person and that individual has absolutely no accountability. It's hard to see hope from where I stand.

While you say (as I have similarly in past said):
[quote]I'm more interested in what happens next with Cousins, who runs our draft board, and who gets the next GM job.[/quote]

I now think that whatever we're presented with on a silver platter next will just be the next iteration of the con job that DS is doing on all Skins fans.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=FRPLG;1167995]I guess I'm sensing more of a tolerance for the situation than I currently have. I've long been a defender of the DS tenure as I have simply refused to believe he was as bad others shrieked about. But I am as close as ever to having to give up. Year after year of losing is one thing. I can take bad luck and unfortunate football decisions. That's part of being a fan. The hope that one day everything will finally fall into place. But year after year of making the same mistakes because one individual is simply unable or unwilling to develop as person and that individual has absolutely no accountability. It's hard to see hope from where I stand.

While you say (as I have similarly in past said):


[B]I now think that whatever we're presented with on a silver platter next will just be the next iteration of the con job that DS is doing on all Skins fans.[/B][/quote]

And when the draft arrives and delivers you a side of 10 draft picks, you'll eat it up.

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The team handled it about as poorly as can be, but in the end there was never going to be anything other than a messy end to it?

Is there any circumstance where we would have accepted Scot leaving as anything other than the team fucking it up in some manner?

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Here's a pretty scathing op-ed. [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/03/13/tony-kornheiser-eviscerates-the-redskins-for-their-savage-cutdown-of-a-human-being/?utm_term=.78bd81db8bf6[/url]

Nothing new, but gives the perspective I think most who are disgusted with the FO are seeing this from.

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If you believe that the Redskins owner and Front office is terrible and that Snyder and Allen are really bad people then WHY would you ever root for this team again??? I don't get it..pages of post saying really bad stuff about Snyder and Allen and yet the same folks still follow the team..why not just find another team?? Snyder is not selling the team so to have that much hatred towards the man..there is no way I could root for anybody that I could not stand. Some of you hate him more than the Cowboys..or at least that is what it appears.Or are you guys jest venting frustration ?? I am confused because even though I don't like every move they make IF i detested Snyder then I would never pull for the team again.. The whole Scott deal is unfortunate I have heard/read lots of different takes on it and To be honest I don't trust the media to tell it straight..so what really happened? Did Allen back stab Scott because of EGO then blame it on his drinking??? then Snyder backs it up? IF that is truth then why would any of us want to root for this team( to root for Skins you root for Snyder)..SO which is it..are The REDSKINS a horrible franchise run by terrible people ..or is the media piling on and some fans just frustrated..because I can't pull for a team that does the things some are saying the Skins are doing..help me decide!!

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^^^
I don't dislike Snider. I wish he did things better. I do dislike Allen because he seems like such a weasley shithead. I've been a fan of this team my whole life. Can't just throw that away because I don't like 1 of the employees. And just because I don't like him, doesn't mean I don't want him to be successful. I hope they nail all 10 picks. But even if they do, my impression of him doesn't change.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

I hate Donald Trump but I don't hate America

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1167989]Who is defending the team?? I feel like we're talking in circles.

Nobody in the last five pages has defended the team. They're indefensible.

I think what you're taking as defending the team is really just several posters who are the types that look forward, not backward. I'm like that myself. Bruce Allen is a piece of shit, but McCloughan is gone, history, spilled milk. I don't cry over it. I'm more interested in what happens next with Cousins, who runs our draft board, and who gets the next GM job.[/quote]

Don't take it personally but I feel Matt has defended the team as getting rid of a drunk who let his personal life interfere with his professional life. Whereas I feel that's not the case. It seems to me that Bruce couldn't be happy with Scot getting most of the credit for the turnaround job.

It also seems fair to think that if this was a model franchise, Scot would've had his role reduced as much as possible going forward, and then would've been released after the draft. If it truly was the drinking affecting his work, they could've worked together to make a statement about Scot stepping away from the team to get his personal affairs in order. Or if it was a case of Scot and Bruce not seeing eye to eye, announce that working together wasn't going the way they had planned it and it was best for both sides to seperate. I'd be upset but I wouldn't be nearly as upset as I am now.

As it stands now, the Redskins look like the same old shitshow we've come to know over the years. I don't care who they bring in, I have lost nearly all hope that things will ever change as long as Dan/Bruce run the show.

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That's not my take at all.

I've said the team handled it as poorly as can be. The leaks are absolute bush league. Do I think McCloughan has a drinking problem? Yeah I think it's safe to say he does. Anyone denying that he's drinking is an absolute fool. By his own admission he never stopped, and it seems to be pretty common knowledge among players and reporters that he is a functioning drunk. Was that the reason for him getting fired? Probably not, it's likely a convenient excuse when the real problem stems from a power struggle between Allen and McC, and there's probably a lot more to the situation that we'll never know about.

It was a messy situation with a messy ending. I really can't think of any way it could have been resolved amicably and left the fans feeling ok with it. I don't think it's a terrible thing that Allen and McCloughan couldn't find a way to make things work, shit happens, but the way the team handled it was horrible and pretty classless.

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Well said. I'm with Matty. It's not that we're not appalled, it's maybe that we're used to being appalled, and more focused on what comes next.

I am not happy but I keep more of an even keel. We haven't lost any games yet because of this mess. If we go 9-7 it will be hard for me to come down on Bruce. That's really maybe the crux of why I'm not going off the rails.

The idea of losing Kirk though would be upsetting though because it's hard to see getting back to 8-8.